move less and eat less
Replies
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That about sums it up.It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.0 -
Working out makes me motivated to fuel my body properly to facilitate the workout. If not for exercise, I would (and did) eat more out of boredom. No way would I have lost this much weight without exercise. The amount I have to eat to lose weight with no exercise is so low that I can't stick to it long-term. What I'm doing now is what works for me.
Hey, great!
Just keep in mind, as you lean out you may need to up your game if you want to keep going, as I have found. Since the rules haven't changed, it strongly implies if you can find a way to distract yourself that isn't exercise, you will be EVEN BETTER at this NOW, regardless of leanness.
if you are already PERFECT, and have NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT, I can see why you would reject what I have to say out of hand.
You are pretty unreal.0 -
It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE. A simple test is to do the unthinkable (if you have my mindset from two months ago) and increase your rest days to see what happens.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.0 -
It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.0 -
Working out makes me motivated to fuel my body properly to facilitate the workout. If not for exercise, I would (and did) eat more out of boredom. No way would I have lost this much weight without exercise. The amount I have to eat to lose weight with no exercise is so low that I can't stick to it long-term. What I'm doing now is what works for me.
Hey, great!
Just keep in mind, as you lean out you may need to up your game if you want to keep going, as I have found. Since the rules haven't changed, it strongly implies if you can find a way to distract yourself that isn't exercise, you will be EVEN BETTER at this NOW, regardless of leanness.
if you are already PERFECT, and have NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT, I can see why you would reject what I have to say out of hand.
You are pretty unreal.
Thanks! Right back at you.0 -
It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.
Actually I responded mostly to the negative comments, very little to the ones who agree. And I count more than one
. One helpful person even helped me craft a better statement.
Thanks for playing the "I want to shift the topic away from anything substantive"! Your emotions and how important they are have been duly noted.0 -
It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.
Actually I responded. And I count more than one. One helpful person even helped me craft a better statement.
Thanks for playing though! Your emotions and how important they are have been duly noted.
You never answered me why you experience is proof, but mine is not.
I don't recall expressing my emotions but I'm glad they are important to you. That means a lot to me.0 -
It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.
Actually I responded. And I count more than one. One helpful person even helped me craft a better statement.
Thanks for playing though! Your emotions and how important they are have been duly noted.
You never answered me why you experience is proof, but mine is not.
Yeah, sorry for the snub. What can I say, lots of negative replies and I answered the most compelling ones. I'm sorry your super special reply didn't get the super special attention it deserved.
Maybe it has to do with the fact that my point is conceptual/rational, and you want to play an empirical game? I'm not a researcher, nor am I presenting research here. I am assuming you've educated yourself enough to operate on the conceptual level by now, and if not, those interested tend to post citations (which is exactly what happened, which YOU ignored).0 -
Your just digging a bigger hole. Nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong and on the contrary, it how we learn, but I doubt that is in your DNA.It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.
Actually I responded. And I count more than one. One helpful person even helped me craft a better statement.
Thanks for playing though! Your emotions and how important they are have been duly noted.0 -
It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.
Actually I responded. And I count more than one. One helpful person even helped me craft a better statement.
Thanks for playing though! Your emotions and how important they are have been duly noted.
You never answered me why you experience is proof, but mine is not.
Yeah, sorry for the snub. What can I say, lots of negative replies and I answered the most compelling ones. I'm sorry your super special reply didn't get the super special attention it deserved.
I dropped over 30lbs, 2 minutes per mile off my average pace, 6 minutes of my 5k pace and PR'd a half marathon in 4 months (a little later took 10 minutes of my sprint triathlon PR) of doing the exact opposite of what you are saying - as I mentioned in this thread, working out with weights 4-5 times a week, and cardio 6-7 times a week (depending on where I was in my program). Before and afters are in my profile. Not compelling enough to warrant a response, just an outright dimissal that my experience isn't proof and saying that anothe way I could have been "fitter".
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Your just digging a bigger hole. Nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong and on the contrary, it how we learn, but I doubt that is in your DNA.It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.
Actually I responded. And I count more than one. One helpful person even helped me craft a better statement.
Thanks for playing though! Your emotions and how important they are have been duly noted.
No, you don't learn by admitting you are wrong, exclusively, nor does admitting one is wrong necessarily help, unless one IS wrong. Like, for instance, my OP is seriously flawed in construction, which has been pointed out quite astutely, and I have no problem agreeing with that conclusion.
Sara and some others made great points here, some corrective, and I've done the best to acknowledge that and add the info to my knowledge base.0 -
The plural of "anecdote" is not data.
you tossed out a half formed theory, and then got nasty with anyone who called you on it.
Here's a tip: Argue less, workout more. It's good for you.0 -
It has taken me a year to figure out, and I'd be a jerk if I didn't share.
Trying to lose weight? Working out more than 3 times a week? There is your problem.
Take a look around at posts from people "doing everything right and not losing". What do almost all of them have in common? Crazy exercise regimen.
Losing weight is a destructive process. By definition. While you are tearing down the body you have now, don't think of training as anything but a way to reduce the damage from this process. Eat less, move less. Find a distraction that isn't going to prolong your weight loss. Working out is not a good one!
I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense at all...
I'll save you some time and face palming….OP erroneously assumed that the people who are not seeing results and happen to work out more than 3 times per week are overtraining and not giving their bodies time to heal, completely disregarding that people can work out more than 3 times per week without having a crazy workout regimen and that there are other factors besides exercise that can explain a lack of results. Several people, including myself, pointed out to him that we were exercising more than 3 times per week and were fine, at which point we were called stubborn and told we were doing it wrong and his way was better (just because he said so). Also SCIENCE was written a bunch of times in all caps, but no actual science was produced to back these claims. Science was produced to refute the claims but not surprisingly was summarily ignored.
Hilarity, eye rolling, and face palming ensued for several pages, and now we're at the point where the OP is admitting that his original post was worded badly, yet is still arguing that his way is right. Or something. Just nod, smile, and keep doing what you're doing.
Huh? Re-reading my OP, it seems I LITERALLY did not assume someone hitting a plateau is working more than 3 times a day, which explains why I phrase it AS A QUESTION. WITH A QUESTION MARK AT THE END.
I'll go further and say that for some people, 3 times might be TOO MUCH if the GOAL is to PROGRESS AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE.
And no, it's not all face palming in the thread. Quite a few people got it, and one particularly astute person wondered why this even needs to be said. And my answer is, because it's a remarkably common cognitive distortion.
One "astute" person - because they agreed with you.
And you just ignored the rest.
Actually I responded. And I count more than one. One helpful person even helped me craft a better statement.
Thanks for playing though! Your emotions and how important they are have been duly noted.
You never answered me why you experience is proof, but mine is not.
Yeah, sorry for the snub. What can I say, lots of negative replies and I answered the most compelling ones. I'm sorry your super special reply didn't get the super special attention it deserved.
I dropped over 30lbs, 2 minutes per mile off my average pace, 6 minutes of my 5k pace and PR'd a half marathon in 4 months of doing the exact opposite of what you are saying - as I mentioned in this thread, working out with weights 4-5 times a week, and cardio 6-7 times a week (depending on where I was in my program). Before and afters are in my profile. Not compelling enough to warrant a response, just an outright dimissal that my experience isn't proof.
I dropped over 50 in less than a year, did two bulking and cutting phases from there, and also made huge gains in strength, speed and endurance.
It's not evidence for or against the points in my OP, which is why I don't bring it up, and why you shouldn't either. It IS evidence that what I have to say comes from a context of success.
Of course, that stops nobody from coming here and implying I support my points with anecdotal evidence. Which leaves me in the curious position of having you criticize me for blowing off your anecdote, while someone else criticizes me for relying on anecdotal evidence.
Oh yeah, and while I simultaneously am criticized for two points I didn't make, someone else criticizes me for complaining about these dueling straw men.0 -
So make with the cites. Show us the data. Not "Advice I was hearing for years". Not "I finally figured out that raspberry ketones DO work" etc.
Cites. Science. Evidence.
I want to know where you are getting your information.0 -
The plural of "anecdote" is not data.
you tossed out a half formed theory, and then got nasty with anyone who called you on it.
Here's a tip: Argue less, workout more. It's good for you.
It's not a theory.
Is it half formed? Maybe. But since it's not a theory, but rather based on asking why I refused to take such oft repeated advice from the very experts I follow closest, and asking if anyone else out there might fit this pattern too,
The evidence behind the concept of rest as the primary means whereby adaptation occurs (whereas training would be the stimulus that triggers the adaptation) is not mine, new, or even disputed by anyone serious in this field. I don't feel I should have to support that (but I am grateful to the person who provided citations)0 -
So make with the cites. Show us the data. Not "Advice I was hearing for years". Not "I finally figured out that raspberry ketones DO work" etc.
Cites. Science. Evidence.
I want to know where you are getting your information.
If you can't be bothered to scroll thorough and find them in this thread, you really won't get me interested by giving me a task to do.
Go ahead and move on, I'm interested in the people who need to hear this. People like me. You are obviously good to go, perfect, and an exceptional individual not as prone to cognitive distortion as the average human.0 -
I dropped over 50 in less than a year, did two bulking and cutting phases from there, and also made huge gains in strength, speed and endurance.
It's not evidence for or against the points in my OP, which is why I don't bring it up, and why you shouldn't either. It IS evidence that what I have to say comes from a context of success.
Of course, that stops nobody from coming here and implying I support my points with anecdotal evidence. Which leaves me in the curious position of having you criticize me for blowing off your anecdote, while someone else criticizes me for relying on anecdotal evidence.
Oh yeah, and while I simultaneously am criticized for two points I didn't make, someone else criticizes me for complaining about these dueling straw men.
If you cant figure out why I brought it up, then I give up.
I am not for anectodal evidence either, but if you are going to use yours as evidence, you can't just dismiss others who choose to share theirs (not to mention insulting as well just because I didn't agree with you).0 -
As a "newbie" that's been using MFP since Jan 1st, I'm still new to all of this... But I think I'd rather work out a few times a week (not overly work out, as I couldn't sustain that and would give up), as it's not all about weight loss. It's about leading a healthier lifestyle, is it not?
I'd rather lose weight slowly, whilst building up my overall fitness and making my body, heart and the rest healthier, fitter and stronger... Or am I just getting the completely wrong end of the stick and doing the wrong thing?
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cognitive distortion? You mean people that jump to conclusions with little evidence.......is that how you view your audience?0
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I read the 10 pages, hoping to find someone making sense of the OP. All I have now is this:
Edited for bracket0 -
I dropped over 50 in less than a year, did two bulking and cutting phases from there, and also made huge gains in strength, speed and endurance.
It's not evidence for or against the points in my OP, which is why I don't bring it up, and why you shouldn't either. It IS evidence that what I have to say comes from a context of success.
Of course, that stops nobody from coming here and implying I support my points with anecdotal evidence. Which leaves me in the curious position of having you criticize me for blowing off your anecdote, while someone else criticizes me for relying on anecdotal evidence.
Oh yeah, and while I simultaneously am criticized for two points I didn't make, someone else criticizes me for complaining about these dueling straw men.
If you cant figure out why I brought it up, then I give up.
I am not for anectodal evidence either, but if you are going to use yours as evidence, you can't just dismiss others who choose to share theirs (and insult as well).
As evidence of what?
My POINT is about ignoring advice I got OVER AND OVER AGAIN, not about determining if that advice is right (go take down McDonald and Berkhan if you really can demolish it).
Most of these "takedowns" want to focus on establishing if the advice is "right". Empirically. Fine! Good topic!
But this is about WHY DID I IGNORE THE ADVICE, and WHY DO SO MANY SEEM TO IGNORE IT BY FOLLOWING A SIMILAR PATTERN.
"The advice" comes from, for instance Martin Berkhan who LITERALLY presents a three day per week only program, with the advice, AGAIN LITERAL, that an extra day of rest beats an extra day of training. I've been following Martin for over a year! I first read this over a year ago!0 -
cognitive distortion? You mean people that jump to conclusions with little evidence.......is that how you view your audience?
It's how I view the human condition.
So yes.
Also how I view myself.
For instance, I'm sure there are some responses here where I assume the person is disingenuous, and it's not based in actual evidence. Cognitive distortion, my dear.0 -
As a "newbie" that's been using MFP since Jan 1st, I'm still new to all of this... But I think I'd rather work out a few times a week (not overly work out, as I couldn't sustain that and would give up), as it's not all about weight loss. It's about leading a healthier lifestyle, is it not?
I'd rather lose weight slowly, whilst building up my overall fitness and making my body, heart and the rest healthier, fitter and stronger... Or am I just getting the completely wrong end of the stick and doing the wrong thing?
I'd also recommend losing weight slowly.
So put that together with my OP. What am I saying.
Well, let's say you want to lose slowly, so let's pick a number. A half pound a week. That's 2 a month, or 4 lbs per 2 months.
To lose four pounds you need to forego 3500 cal x 4, so 14,000 cals.
I'm saying to cut as big a deficit as you can manage, which you can increase by adding rest, and to decrease the total number of days in a negative energy balance you are subjected to. So rather than 500 a day under, every day, try to bump that up, rest more, and then INCREASE the number of days you spend in a neutral energy balance, or even a positive.
You don't even need to run your deficits on successive days (gee this sounds a lot like intermittent fasting now, doesn't it.)
Your overall rate of loss is unchanged, as is your energy balance over the two months. But these two approaches will not produce the same results, PRACTICALLY speaking.0 -
If they had been logging incorrectly, then they wouldn't have lost weight when they increased calories.
In my opinion this is not necessarily correct. Often times, increasing calories can increase dietary compliance and adherence in the long term. So for example many times people make an attempt at setting intake too low. They comply for a few days then they make up for it by having a binge day or a "I'm not going to track today" day and effectively un-do the deficit they may have created over the short periods of compliance.
I actually had not thought of it this way. When they increase calories, they find it easier to keep at it. I feel really fortunate that I found the right info early on and didn't struggle so much with the lower calorie thing.0 -
If they had been logging incorrectly, then they wouldn't have lost weight when they increased calories.
In my opinion this is not necessarily correct. Often times, increasing calories can increase dietary compliance and adherence in the long term. So for example many times people make an attempt at setting intake too low. They comply for a few days then they make up for it by having a binge day or a "I'm not going to track today" day and effectively un-do the deficit they may have created over the short periods of compliance.
I actually had not thought of it this way. When they increase calories, they find it easier to keep at it. I feel really fortunate that I found the right info early on and didn't struggle so much with the lower calorie thing.
This is one of those things you have to try out.
For me, it's easier to run a bigger deficit for fewer days. (I also use refeeds to reset my will power and hormones)
Also remember, even your identity is mutable, so what's easier for you today, might not be tomorrow.0 -
That is an interesting observation and now that you point it out - I've seen it a lot on mfp too. Usually, with mfp women who have been on the diet treadmill for a while.(sorry for the pun).
Hmmm another astute person.
Apparently you are just insane, better get to a doctor or something. Because obviously I'm nuts, so if you noticed the same thing...0 -
Just occurred to me,
For those of us who like to think of it as thermodynamics -
the net cals approach IS a very oversimplified model of the energy system, because it doesn't account for natural (and dynamic) limits on the rate at which energy/matter/complexity can be added to or taken away from the system. (This is why you cannot net below your TDEE if your total intake is more than your capacity for work.)
In order to deal with this we come up with rules like "never under 1200" , or "you need to rest if you want to grow".0 -
Bumping for later, very interested in this discussion0
-
Again, to sum up:
What's advocated in the OP isn't magic, or some miracle way to lose. It's a conceptual shift in how we identify the "means whereby" we can realize positive change. Especially when weight loss is the goal, we need to FOCUS on rest as that means whereby, as the cornerstone and foundation.
It's about your relationship to yourself. It's about not grudgingly giving yourself a day off because you don't want overtrain, but rather taking that extra day off and feeling badass about it. It's about your confirmation bias reinforcing your extra day off, instead of reinforcing your addiction to training. It's about not letting this struggle be fueled by desperation, but by reason and patience.
actually, what you said in your OP was "hurrrrrr derrrr hurr derrr hurrrrrrrr, durrrrrr. durr hurr hurrrrrr derrrrr hurrrrrr derrrr hurr derrr hurrrrrrrr, durrrrrr. durr hurr hurrrrrr derrrrr hurrrrrr derrrr hurr derrr hurrrrrrrr, durrrrrr. durr hurr hurrrrrr derrrrrhurrrrrr derrrr hurr derrr hurrrrrrrr, durrrrrr. durr hurr hurrrrrr derrrrr"
and then, when told by poster after poster that "hurrrr durrrr" doesn't mean anything, you responded with "herpy derpy derpy herpy derpy derp derp hurpy durpy herpy derpy derpy herpy derpy derp derp hurpy durpy personal attack herpy derpy"0 -
I agree 100% with OP.
I used to work out 5 times a week, but at the moment I am on a weightloss program. I have lost 7kg in the last 11 weeks by doing intermittent fasting in form of ADF, 4:3 and 5:2 and by changing my dietary habits from partially bad ones to mainly good ones.
I am aware that this is putting my body through a massive change and for the time being the only exercise I am doing is a one hour fast walk in fresh air and counting my steps with fitbit force. I am trying to get enough sleep and once I have reached my goal weight, which is very soon, I will gently reintroduce my exercise regime.
Mind you that is not easy as I have my own gym at home and I love my elliptical trainer, but for the time being I see it as counter productive to put my body through more stress than it has to go through.
Losing weight AND working out excessively do not work very well together, but than...everybody can and should do as they see right.
Stef.0
This discussion has been closed.
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