Muscle gain from cardio?
Replies
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I'm sure he has DEXA scans.Thanks for the replies and its pretty much what I thought , I have without doubt gained muscle in my legs so you can build muscle but not 2.5 in a week, let's hope it is water weight and see if I can shift it I still don't 100% understand it tbh do I just drink water to get rid of water?
Yes, drink water. Lots of it, regardless of what your workout consists of. As long as you are exercising, though, you will have water retention to repair muscles. To be honest, I don't know why it matters so much. Focus less on the scale and more on your fitness/strength gains and how you look in the mirror.
The reason it matters is cause my goal I is to weigh under 200lbs and I'm soooo close!
What methods did you use to detirme that you without a doubt gained muscle in your legs?
Sorry realise I was talking to a expert, wana be helpful instead of sarcastic? I know because I know my body and the change in shape and size of my legs if it isn't muscle then what is it?0 -
Oh. I thought I was being helpful, by explaining how you would know that you added muscle to your legs. That's the way I'm doing it. I'm glad that you know your body, and I assume you acquired that knowledge through objective measurement, because I am a scientist. If you measured the circumference of your legs in the same places at the beginning and at the end, and they were bigger at the end, then you seem justified in saying that your legs got bigger at those places. The logical possibilities for what can change the size and shape would be muscle, fat, and water. Since nobody gains 2.5 pounds of muscle in that short of a time frame, and you probably didn't gain that much fat in a week either, it seems a safe bet to say it's water to be used in repairing tissue damaged from exercise.
I'm sure he has DEXA scans.Thanks for the replies and its pretty much what I thought , I have without doubt gained muscle in my legs so you can build muscle but not 2.5 in a week, let's hope it is water weight and see if I can shift it I still don't 100% understand it tbh do I just drink water to get rid of water?
Yes, drink water. Lots of it, regardless of what your workout consists of. As long as you are exercising, though, you will have water retention to repair muscles. To be honest, I don't know why it matters so much. Focus less on the scale and more on your fitness/strength gains and how you look in the mirror.
The reason it matters is cause my goal I is to weigh under 200lbs and I'm soooo close!
What methods did you use to detirme that you without a doubt gained muscle in your legs?
Sorry realise I was talking to a expert, wana be helpful instead of sarcastic? I know because I know my body and the change in shape and size of my legs if it isn't muscle then what is it?0 -
You may be getting better muscle endurance and seeing more definition, but that doesn't equate to building muscle. To build muscle you have to invariably gain mass and that means adding weight. And if walking built muscle, then really there shouldn't be many "unmuscular" people because many people walk everyday.THANK YOU! All I am doing right now is walking (4.5 MPH for 30 min 4 times a day) and no one can tell me I'm not gaining muscle. I see my legs and they are difinitely gaining muscle and losing fat. My scale may not be moving much but I am burning 500-1000kcal/day according to my Flex. There is no way to cheat on that thing.
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Again, if you have plenty of extra mass to begin with, there's ZERO reason you cannot gain muscle mass while losing fat. None.0 -
With cardio only?And no progressive overload? You've been watching too much "wrestling" if you believe that.
You may be getting better muscle endurance and seeing more definition, but that doesn't equate to building muscle. To build muscle you have to invariably gain mass and that means adding weight. And if walking built muscle, then really there shouldn't be many "unmuscular" people because many people walk everyday.THANK YOU! All I am doing right now is walking (4.5 MPH for 30 min 4 times a day) and no one can tell me I'm not gaining muscle. I see my legs and they are difinitely gaining muscle and losing fat. My scale may not be moving much but I am burning 500-1000kcal/day according to my Flex. There is no way to cheat on that thing.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Again, if you have plenty of extra mass to begin with, there's ZERO reason you cannot gain muscle mass while losing fat. None.
While being extremely overweight/obese is an exception to gaining muscle while in deficit, one has to do PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD to achieve it. Walking isn't gonna do it. And even then, the gain is minimal. Sorry, but there's your reason.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
With cardio only?And no progressive overload? You've been watching too much "wrestling" if you believe that.
While being extremely overweight/obese is an exception to gaining muscle while in deficit, one has to do PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD to achieve it. Walking isn't gonna do it. And even then, the gain is minimal. Sorry, but there's your reason.
[/quote]
Hmm. What do you consider P90X? or DDPYoga.?
I guess i consider it primarily cardio, though there's a lot of muscle engagement and strength building poses.
and know I get solidly sore muscles after a good workout in DDPYoga.
I don't get sore after a walk at the same HR, for the same duration.0 -
Basically all yoga is isometric exercise. Builds strength not mass. P90X isn't a progressive weight lifting programs. "Ripped" people on it look muscular because of loss of body fat.With cardio only?And no progressive overload? You've been watching too much "wrestling" if you believe that.
While being extremely overweight/obese is an exception to gaining muscle while in deficit, one has to do PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD to achieve it. Walking isn't gonna do it. And even then, the gain is minimal. Sorry, but there's your reason.
Hmm. What do you consider P90X? or DDPYoga.?
I guess i consider it primarily cardio, though there's a lot of muscle engagement and strength building poses.
and know I get solidly sore muscles after a good workout in DDPYoga.
I don't get sore after a walk at the same HR, for the same duration.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy happens when muscle is overloaded progressively over time and one is supplying enough energy and macronutrients (specifically protein) to cause hypertrophy to happen. This is ADDING lean weight to the body and usually requires a surplus not a deficit. Surpluses will usually also ADD fat to the body and not reduce it. And it works vice versa. One one is in deficit, fat will be lost along with some muscle (although resistance training helps to reduce the amount lost).
While an extremely overweight/obese person may build a little muscle in the beginning, it still being done by progressive overload weight lifting and not walking.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Do you have any sources for scientific analysis of *why* the body will not add new muscle in a deficit, using stored body fat for the energy required, when challenged with progressive overload stimulus?
Basically all yoga is isometric exercise. Builds strength not mass. P90X isn't a progressive weight lifting programs. "Ripped" people on it look muscular because of loss of body fat.With cardio only?And no progressive overload? You've been watching too much "wrestling" if you believe that.
While being extremely overweight/obese is an exception to gaining muscle while in deficit, one has to do PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD to achieve it. Walking isn't gonna do it. And even then, the gain is minimal. Sorry, but there's your reason.
Hmm. What do you consider P90X? or DDPYoga.?
I guess i consider it primarily cardio, though there's a lot of muscle engagement and strength building poses.
and know I get solidly sore muscles after a good workout in DDPYoga.
I don't get sore after a walk at the same HR, for the same duration.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy happens when muscle is overloaded progressively over time and one is supplying enough energy and macronutrients (specifically protein) to cause hypertrophy to happen. This is ADDING lean weight to the body and usually requires a surplus not a deficit. Surpluses will usually also ADD fat to the body and not reduce it. And it works vice versa. One one is in deficit, fat will be lost along with some muscle (although resistance training helps to reduce the amount lost).
While an extremely overweight/obese person may build a little muscle in the beginning, it still being done by progressive overload weight lifting and not walking.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I intuitively see how that would be evolutionarily disadvantageous, I'm just curious about the actual biochemical mechanisms.0 -
Basically all yoga is isometric exercise. Builds strength not mass. P90X isn't a progressive weight lifting programs. "Ripped" people on it look muscular because of loss of body fat.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy happens when muscle is overloaded progressively over time and one is supplying enough energy and macronutrients (specifically protein) to cause hypertrophy to happen. This is ADDING lean weight to the body and usually requires a surplus not a deficit. Surpluses will usually also ADD fat to the body and not reduce it. And it works vice versa. One one is in deficit, fat will be lost along with some muscle (although resistance training helps to reduce the amount lost).
While an extremely overweight/obese person may build a little muscle in the beginning, it still being done by progressive overload weight lifting and not walking.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
[/quote]
I gather you are drawing a distinction between isometric and walking, and that's fine.
I'm just curious as to why you think isometric won't build muscle. I agree it won't build it AS FAST as resistance training, but I cannot for the life of me see why it wouldn't build it at all, especially dynamic resistance style, where you are, effectively, upping the resistance by getting stronger progressively.0 -
Here's a couple of reasons why:
Do you have any sources for scientific analysis of *why* the body will not add new muscle in a deficit, using stored body fat for the energy required, when challenged with progressive overload stimulus?
Basically all yoga is isometric exercise. Builds strength not mass. P90X isn't a progressive weight lifting programs. "Ripped" people on it look muscular because of loss of body fat.With cardio only?And no progressive overload? You've been watching too much "wrestling" if you believe that.
While being extremely overweight/obese is an exception to gaining muscle while in deficit, one has to do PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD to achieve it. Walking isn't gonna do it. And even then, the gain is minimal. Sorry, but there's your reason.
Hmm. What do you consider P90X? or DDPYoga.?
I guess i consider it primarily cardio, though there's a lot of muscle engagement and strength building poses.
and know I get solidly sore muscles after a good workout in DDPYoga.
I don't get sore after a walk at the same HR, for the same duration.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy happens when muscle is overloaded progressively over time and one is supplying enough energy and macronutrients (specifically protein) to cause hypertrophy to happen. This is ADDING lean weight to the body and usually requires a surplus not a deficit. Surpluses will usually also ADD fat to the body and not reduce it. And it works vice versa. One one is in deficit, fat will be lost along with some muscle (although resistance training helps to reduce the amount lost).
While an extremely overweight/obese person may build a little muscle in the beginning, it still being done by progressive overload weight lifting and not walking.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I intuitively see how that would be evolutionarily disadvantageous, I'm just curious about the actual biochemical mechanisms.
Calorie deficit is CATABOLIC. One can't be anabolic (for muscle building) and catabolic at the same time.
Calorie deficit also impairs protein synthesis which has to be optimal for muscle hypertrophy to occur.
There's information on this out there, I just don't have an abstract to link to you right now.
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
There are 2 types of hypertrophy...sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar. Strength training (yoga, powerlifting, isometric) works by improving the strength of the muscle without necessarily increasing it's size (myofibrillar). Being able to hold a plank longer and longer isn't going to increase arm size, chest size or back size because the contraction doesn't allow for lengthening of the muscles in either direction.I gather you are drawing a distinction between isometric and walking, and that's fine.
I'm just curious as to why you think isometric won't build muscle. I agree it won't build it AS FAST as resistance training, but I cannot for the life of me see why it wouldn't build it at all, especially dynamic resistance style, where you are, effectively, upping the resistance by getting stronger progressively.
The "pump" is what is needed to help break down muscle fibers for rebuilding as well as challenging concentric and eccentric contractions (sarcoplasmic).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
There are 2 types of hypertrophy...sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar. Strength training (yoga, powerlifting, isometric) works by improving the strength of the muscle without necessarily increasing it's size (myofibrillar). Being able to hold a plank longer and longer isn't going to increase arm size, chest size or back size because the contraction doesn't allow for lengthening of the muscles in either direction.I gather you are drawing a distinction between isometric and walking, and that's fine.
I'm just curious as to why you think isometric won't build muscle. I agree it won't build it AS FAST as resistance training, but I cannot for the life of me see why it wouldn't build it at all, especially dynamic resistance style, where you are, effectively, upping the resistance by getting stronger progressively.
The "pump" is what is needed to help break down muscle fibers for rebuilding as well as challenging concentric and eccentric contractions (sarcoplasmic).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ahh. Interesting.
I will have to read more on that.
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Absolutely not. You might have a water retention spike but you're not building pounds of muscle doing cardio. Cardio is the opposite of muscle-building.0
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Absolutely not. You might have a water retention spike but you're not building pounds of muscle doing cardio. Cardio is the opposite of muscle-building.
Tell that to my calves. :huh:
OP - you are not building muscle in a calorie deficit. Either you are eating too much, or your muscles are retaining water while they get used to the new routine.0 -
OP: Nope, When you start any exercise from a previously sedentary condition, you'll see Neuromuscular adaptation and muscle swelling- which is the same thing that makes people think they've gained muscle when they start lifting weights at a deficit. Your muscles feel taut, look bigger, work better so you get stronger- etc. All things that would lead someone to believe they're gaining muscle- except you're not. Your brain is just learning to fire up the muscle you have.0
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I've been goin to the gym since the start of the year and my diary has been solid almost always under my goal yet I've put on the last 2 weeks? I know I'm gaining muscle but how much muscle can you gain from just doing cardio and nothing but cardio? Enough to put 2.5 lb in a week?
Do you weigh your food and properly calculate your calorie burns? This fixed my problem when I was having a similar issue.0 -
In for the popcorn
But if you gained muscle from doing nothing but cardio then I'd have no need to be doing strength training 2 years later cause I'd be the size of a house. I put no muscle on at all & all I did daily was cardio.
You do not put on...or even retain muscle doing nothing but cardio. Why do you think runners can't lift for ****?0 -
They're the hardest place to add mass!!Absolutely not. You might have a water retention spike but you're not building pounds of muscle doing cardio. Cardio is the opposite of muscle-building.
Tell that to my calves. :huh:
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Tell that to my legs and if the muscle stops growing there from all the cardio I might believe you. Truth is depends on the workout and the diet. Cardio and muscle growth are not mutually exclusive. Now having cast the shot across the bow of that ship...break it down...
Muscles are grown primarily through the tearing of the tissue and then the body repair mechanism. So to grow muscles your workout has to create micro tears and your diet needs to provide the correct nutriements (mostly protein) to buld them back up. Cardio will only consume muscle if you do so in a manner consistent with kicking over into body tissue consumption on an extented period of time (for most people about 40 minutes).
You can gain some muscle from cardio but only to a small extent. Your body/muscles will quickly adapt to cardio. I think what people see from doing cardio is a reduction of fat, which makes the body appear to be more muscular. That said, cardio is an ineffective way to build muscle, while lifting weights IS an effective way to gain muscle, being that you can always increase the weights so your body doesn't adapt to lifting. That is how muscles are "torn down". When I see someone who runs have legs that look like someone who squats 400lbs, then I might buy into what you're saying.
That said, no way can one gain 2.5lbs of muscle doing cardio. It's hard enough gaining that much muscle by lifting weights.
Yeah,. that's why I've put an inch and half on my calves since I started doing cardio.. it's fat going away.
So much bad broscience from the 80s being repeated as fact.
your body IS a weight. When you start doing cardio from a dead stop, you are effectively lifting weights.
Is it true that someone who is already at an extreme level of low body fat, and right on the knife edge maintaining vs building, will have to go into a surplus to build muscle? Sure.
But guys like me, carrying an extra 40 or 50 lbs, who have been on a couch, effectively for years, will convert to muscle, and build muscle, without hitting the lat tower. Not as fast, mind you, but it will happen.
^^^This. I started doing cardio about 4 years ago, building up to running 19 miles a week for over 2 years. No strength training or weights (although of course there are more benefits to doing both). My body slowly lost all excess fat and I got more muscly than I would have liked as a woman but I guess because I had built up that lean muscle I was able to maintain my weight for a year even after I stopped running completely and ate what I wanted. I am proof you can convert muscle from doing pure cardio but as I have just recently started running properly again I also intend to supplement it with a little weight training.
EDIT: I mean to add that I appreciate I am not really gaining muscle with cardio but converting it.
Yeah no, unless you were eating at a surplus and lifting you weren't building muscle - just revealing the muscle hidden under the fat. Women have a very hard time adding muscle - you did not do it by running 19 miles a week.0 -
Tell that to my legs and if the muscle stops growing there from all the cardio I might believe you. Truth is depends on the workout and the diet. Cardio and muscle growth are not mutually exclusive. Now having cast the shot across the bow of that ship...break it down...
Muscles are grown primarily through the tearing of the tissue and then the body repair mechanism. So to grow muscles your workout has to create micro tears and your diet needs to provide the correct nutriements (mostly protein) to buld them back up. Cardio will only consume muscle if you do so in a manner consistent with kicking over into body tissue consumption on an extented period of time (for most people about 40 minutes).
You can gain some muscle from cardio but only to a small extent. Your body/muscles will quickly adapt to cardio. I think what people see from doing cardio is a reduction of fat, which makes the body appear to be more muscular. That said, cardio is an ineffective way to build muscle, while lifting weights IS an effective way to gain muscle, being that you can always increase the weights so your body doesn't adapt to lifting. That is how muscles are "torn down". When I see someone who runs have legs that look like someone who squats 400lbs, then I might buy into what you're saying.
That said, no way can one gain 2.5lbs of muscle doing cardio. It's hard enough gaining that much muscle by lifting weights.
Yeah,. that's why I've put an inch and half on my calves since I started doing cardio.. it's fat going away.
So much bad broscience from the 80s being repeated as fact.
your body IS a weight. When you start doing cardio from a dead stop, you are effectively lifting weights.
Is it true that someone who is already at an extreme level of low body fat, and right on the knife edge maintaining vs building, will have to go into a surplus to build muscle? Sure.
But guys like me, carrying an extra 40 or 50 lbs, who have been on a couch, effectively for years, will convert to muscle, and build muscle, without hitting the lat tower. Not as fast, mind you, but it will happen.
^^^This. I started doing cardio about 4 years ago, building up to running 19 miles a week for over 2 years. No strength training or weights (although of course there are more benefits to doing both). My body slowly lost all excess fat and I got more muscly than I would have liked as a woman but I guess because I had built up that lean muscle I was able to maintain my weight for a year even after I stopped running completely and ate what I wanted. I am proof you can convert muscle from doing pure cardio but as I have just recently started running properly again I also intend to supplement it with a little weight training.
EDIT: I mean to add that I appreciate I am not really gaining muscle with cardio but converting it.
I don't understand what you mean by converting. What are you saying you're converting to muscle? Or are we talking about developing slow twitch vs. fast twitch here? What is being converted to what exactly?0 -
I don't understand what you mean by converting. What are you saying you're converting to muscle? Or are we talking about developing slow twitch vs. fast twitch here? What is being converted to what exactly?
STored fat + dietary protein into muscle growth.0 -
This is one I find confusing. I mean, I didn't measure my legs before I started running, so I can't say for sure. But it sure does look to me like my calves got a lot bigger. I'm sure there was some fat in my legs - I guess - but they were never the "fatty" part of me. But I've read this so many times I'm just not sure. Maybe everything just toned up. I know my legs look a lot stronger, and I can do things I couldn't do with them before I ran. It just seems like there has to be more muscle there.
But when I read what the lifters say, they have to eat a surplus to gain weight. Makes sense, since losing weight works exactly the other way. That muscle has to get built out of something. So I can see how it wouldn't be possible to build muscle without eating more. But this is confusing.
I started working out with a personal trainer at the beginning of the year. My wife and I both think my arms look bigger from all the work. And I know I can do more push ups now. But I've lost 15 lbs. So on the one hand, I see what I think is more muscle and can feel the result. But my brain also kinda says that can't be right. The theory is easy to understand, but in practice, it is kind of confusing. It just seems like if I did push ups every day and did more and more of them my arms and chest would have to build muscle even if I was eating at a deficit. That can never happen? Your body never burns fat to build muscles that are being used more?0 -
in to see first hand the magical work of fat converted to muscle and 2.5 pounds of muscle being created in a week
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Enough to put 2.5 lb in a week?
I can vary +/- 5 pounds a day depending on water, and to a lesser extent food, intakes.0 -
Stronger does not equal muscle growth. You can be stronger with your muscles the same size.0
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This is one I find confusing. I mean, I didn't measure my legs before I started running, so I can't say for sure. But it sure does look to me like my calves got a lot bigger. I'm sure there was some fat in my legs - I guess - but they were never the "fatty" part of me. But I've read this so many times I'm just not sure. Maybe everything just toned up. I know my legs look a lot stronger, and I can do things I couldn't do with them before I ran. It just seems like there has to be more muscle there.
But when I read what the lifters say, they have to eat a surplus to gain weight. Makes sense, since losing weight works exactly the other way. That muscle has to get built out of something. So I can see how it wouldn't be possible to build muscle without eating more. But this is confusing.
I started working out with a personal trainer at the beginning of the year. My wife and I both think my arms look bigger from all the work. And I know I can do more push ups now. But I've lost 15 lbs. So on the one hand, I see what I think is more muscle and can feel the result. But my brain also kinda says that can't be right. The theory is easy to understand, but in practice, it is kind of confusing. It just seems like if I did push ups every day and did more and more of them my arms and chest would have to build muscle even if I was eating at a deficit. That can never happen? Your body never burns fat to build muscles that are being used more?
I'm thinking a lot of the lifters aren't 40 lbs overweight and going from a dead stop.0 -
Tell that to my legs and if the muscle stops growing there from all the cardio I might believe you. Truth is depends on the workout and the diet. Cardio and muscle growth are not mutually exclusive. Now having cast the shot across the bow of that ship...break it down...
Muscles are grown primarily through the tearing of the tissue and then the body repair mechanism. So to grow muscles your workout has to create micro tears and your diet needs to provide the correct nutriements (mostly protein) to buld them back up. Cardio will only consume muscle if you do so in a manner consistent with kicking over into body tissue consumption on an extented period of time (for most people about 40 minutes).
You can gain some muscle from cardio but only to a small extent. Your body/muscles will quickly adapt to cardio. I think what people see from doing cardio is a reduction of fat, which makes the body appear to be more muscular. That said, cardio is an ineffective way to build muscle, while lifting weights IS an effective way to gain muscle, being that you can always increase the weights so your body doesn't adapt to lifting. That is how muscles are "torn down". When I see someone who runs have legs that look like someone who squats 400lbs, then I might buy into what you're saying.
That said, no way can one gain 2.5lbs of muscle doing cardio. It's hard enough gaining that much muscle by lifting weights.
Yeah,. that's why I've put an inch and half on my calves since I started doing cardio.. it's fat going away.
So much bad broscience from the 80s being repeated as fact.
your body IS a weight. When you start doing cardio from a dead stop, you are effectively lifting weights.
Is it true that someone who is already at an extreme level of low body fat, and right on the knife edge maintaining vs building, will have to go into a surplus to build muscle? Sure.
But guys like me, carrying an extra 40 or 50 lbs, who have been on a couch, effectively for years, will convert to muscle, and build muscle, without hitting the lat tower. Not as fast, mind you, but it will happen.
^^^This. I started doing cardio about 4 years ago, building up to running 19 miles a week for over 2 years. No strength training or weights (although of course there are more benefits to doing both). My body slowly lost all excess fat and I got more muscly than I would have liked as a woman but I guess because I had built up that lean muscle I was able to maintain my weight for a year even after I stopped running completely and ate what I wanted. I am proof you can convert muscle from doing pure cardio but as I have just recently started running properly again I also intend to supplement it with a little weight training.
EDIT: I mean to add that I appreciate I am not really gaining muscle with cardio but converting it.
Yeah no, unless you were eating at a surplus and lifting you weren't building muscle - just revealing the muscle hidden under the fat. Women have a very hard time adding muscle - you did not do it by running 19 miles a week.
I would argue that going from doing no cardio to doing some moderate cardio is going to gain you some muscle albeit mainly in the legs. I've read several articles over the years that state doing cardio of some kind can help with muscle growth, as long as its not intense. From personal experience my legs definitely got stronger the more training I did.
Stronger =/= muscle growth
It isn't the same thing.
you can have some noobie muscle gains IF you are brand new to exercising and its strength work or IF you are very overweight - where you either of these things?
However these are small and limited. You really won't gain muscle doing cardio on a deficit - you are just revealing what was already there.
People don't say this to be mean - it's a common fallacy that magazines like to spout to sell more copies, that's why so many people believe it.0 -
Stronger =/= muscle growth
It isn't the same thing.
you can have some noobie muscle gains IF you are brand new to exercising and its strength work or IF you are very overweight - where you either of these things?
However these are small and limited. You really won't gain muscle doing cardio on a deficit - you are just revealing what was already there.
People don't say this to be mean - it's a common fallacy that magazines like to spout to sell more copies, that's why so many people believe it.
And yet I have looked and looked, and can only find the mantra of "you cannot build muscle on a deficit" or "you cannot build muscle doing anything but lifting weights" on forums and other magazines, also sold to convince people that 2 cups of this miracle in a bottle and pinkie lifts will make you the next Mr Universe.
I suspect the reality lies somewhere in the middle.0 -
This is one I find confusing. I mean, I didn't measure my legs before I started running, so I can't say for sure. But it sure does look to me like my calves got a lot bigger. I'm sure there was some fat in my legs - I guess - but they were never the "fatty" part of me. But I've read this so many times I'm just not sure. Maybe everything just toned up. I know my legs look a lot stronger, and I can do things I couldn't do with them before I ran. It just seems like there has to be more muscle there.
But when I read what the lifters say, they have to eat a surplus to gain weight. Makes sense, since losing weight works exactly the other way. That muscle has to get built out of something. So I can see how it wouldn't be possible to build muscle without eating more. But this is confusing.
I started working out with a personal trainer at the beginning of the year. My wife and I both think my arms look bigger from all the work. And I know I can do more push ups now. But I've lost 15 lbs. So on the one hand, I see what I think is more muscle and can feel the result. But my brain also kinda says that can't be right. The theory is easy to understand, but in practice, it is kind of confusing. It just seems like if I did push ups every day and did more and more of them my arms and chest would have to build muscle even if I was eating at a deficit. That can never happen? Your body never burns fat to build muscles that are being used more?
I'm thinking a lot of the lifters aren't 40 lbs overweight and going from a dead stop.
40lbs isn't a massive amount and noob gains only last for a very short period of time. The muscle gains are also generally spread across the entire body - so won't be that noticeable.0 -
Stronger =/= muscle growth
It isn't the same thing.
you can have some noobie muscle gains IF you are brand new to exercising and its strength work or IF you are very overweight - where you either of these things?
However these are small and limited. You really won't gain muscle doing cardio on a deficit - you are just revealing what was already there.
People don't say this to be mean - it's a common fallacy that magazines like to spout to sell more copies, that's why so many people believe it.
And yet I have looked and looked, and can only find the mantra of "you cannot build muscle on a deficit" or "you cannot build muscle doing anything but lifting weights" on forums and other magazines, also sold to convince people that 2 cups of this miracle in a bottle and pinkie lifts will make you the next Mr Universe.
I suspect the reality lies somewhere in the middle.
Sadly I have seen it spouted in many many women's magazines, though I wouldn't expect you to read those :laugh:
It has lessened over the last few years - but it still comes up :noway:0 -
Tell that to my legs and if the muscle stops growing there from all the cardio I might believe you. Truth is depends on the workout and the diet. Cardio and muscle growth are not mutually exclusive. Now having cast the shot across the bow of that ship...break it down...
Muscles are grown primarily through the tearing of the tissue and then the body repair mechanism. So to grow muscles your workout has to create micro tears and your diet needs to provide the correct nutriements (mostly protein) to buld them back up. Cardio will only consume muscle if you do so in a manner consistent with kicking over into body tissue consumption on an extented period of time (for most people about 40 minutes).
You can gain some muscle from cardio but only to a small extent. Your body/muscles will quickly adapt to cardio. I think what people see from doing cardio is a reduction of fat, which makes the body appear to be more muscular. That said, cardio is an ineffective way to build muscle, while lifting weights IS an effective way to gain muscle, being that you can always increase the weights so your body doesn't adapt to lifting. That is how muscles are "torn down". When I see someone who runs have legs that look like someone who squats 400lbs, then I might buy into what you're saying.
That said, no way can one gain 2.5lbs of muscle doing cardio. It's hard enough gaining that much muscle by lifting weights.
Yeah,. that's why I've put an inch and half on my calves since I started doing cardio.. it's fat going away.
So much bad broscience from the 80s being repeated as fact.
your body IS a weight. When you start doing cardio from a dead stop, you are effectively lifting weights.
Is it true that someone who is already at an extreme level of low body fat, and right on the knife edge maintaining vs building, will have to go into a surplus to build muscle? Sure.
But guys like me, carrying an extra 40 or 50 lbs, who have been on a couch, effectively for years, will convert to muscle, and build muscle, without hitting the lat tower. Not as fast, mind you, but it will happen.
^^^This. I started doing cardio about 4 years ago, building up to running 19 miles a week for over 2 years. No strength training or weights (although of course there are more benefits to doing both). My body slowly lost all excess fat and I got more muscly than I would have liked as a woman but I guess because I had built up that lean muscle I was able to maintain my weight for a year even after I stopped running completely and ate what I wanted. I am proof you can convert muscle from doing pure cardio but as I have just recently started running properly again I also intend to supplement it with a little weight training.
EDIT: I mean to add that I appreciate I am not really gaining muscle with cardio but converting it.
Yeah no, unless you were eating at a surplus and lifting you weren't building muscle - just revealing the muscle hidden under the fat. Women have a very hard time adding muscle - you did not do it by running 19 miles a week.
I would argue that going from doing no cardio to doing some moderate cardio is going to gain you some muscle albeit mainly in the legs. I've read several articles over the years that state doing cardio of some kind can help with muscle growth, as long as its not intense. From personal experience my legs definitely got stronger the more training I did.
Mine got stronger and bigger. Of course, I was not in a calorie deficit.0
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