Muscle gain from cardio?
Replies
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Do you believe that muscle is built on a cardio only program? That's the premise (or question) of the OP.If we're speaking in absolutes.................nothing is impossible. Improbable, more than likely. For the sake of complication to members here (since many are trying to transform their physiques in a shorter time vs a longer one) it's pretty safe to say that if someone is in calorie deficit (who isn't obese, a returning athlete or a complete newbie to exercise) the chances of building any "significant" muscle is improbable.
People saying they gained 2.5lbs of weight after working out for a week or two should know it's not muscle they gained.
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This I agree with, especially the bolded.
I disagree with a flat statement that you cannot lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Let us strike up this conversation a year from now when those who are only doing cardio and eating at a deficit continue increasing their muscle gain and have 20" calves, ripped abs like you see on those muscle builder magazines, a 75" chest and 22" biceps. Arguing is useless in the face of anecdotal evidence when hard, iron clad proof is only a year away.
LOL - I won't hold my breath...and this is coming from someone who's not completely sold on the "can't gain muscle on a deficit" theory.0 -
Let us strike up this conversation a year from now when those who are only doing cardio and eating at a deficit continue increasing their muscle gain and have 20" calves, ripped abs like you see on those muscle builder magazines, a 75" chest and 22" biceps. Arguing is useless in the face of anecdotal evidence when hard, iron clad proof is only a year away.
LOL - I won't hold my breath...and this is coming from someone who's not completely sold on the "can't gain muscle on a deficit" theory.
How many years did it take Ahnuld to get to his best form and size?
It's a ridiculous statement.
Most of the guys doing that kind of size gain are probably doing it with the aid of medicine, not food.0 -
Do you believe that muscle is built on a cardio only program? That's the premise (or question) of the OP.If we're speaking in absolutes.................nothing is impossible. Improbable, more than likely. For the sake of complication to members here (since many are trying to transform their physiques in a shorter time vs a longer one) it's pretty safe to say that if someone is in calorie deficit (who isn't obese, a returning athlete or a complete newbie to exercise) the chances of building any "significant" muscle is improbable.
People saying they gained 2.5lbs of weight after working out for a week or two should know it's not muscle they gained.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This I agree with, especially the bolded.
I disagree with a flat statement that you cannot lose fat and build muscle at the same time.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I believe that some is going to be built, doing things typically classed as "Cardio". I do not believe it's going to be anywhere near the size or speed of people lifting _specifically_ to build muscle mass.
I also don't think that a 2 seater FIT car is going to outperform a Dodge VIper.
I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.
I believe the statement :"If you are looking to gain muscle mass as quickly and easily as possible, you need to lift heavy weights alot, rather than do all cardio" is true.0 -
I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.
You think that builds muscle? Really?0 -
How many years did it take Ahnuld to get to his best form and size?
It's a ridiculous statement.
Most of the guys doing that kind of size gain are probably doing it with the aid of medicine, not food.
Exactly.0 -
I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.
You think that builds muscle? Really?
In the scenario described, yes. It's a limited gain, and it is due to the specific adaptation necessary for an untrained person to achieve that level of activity, and it would not continue to increase, and it is not (as the commenter specifically stated) anything like the effects of a progressive resistance training program.
But yes. If we define (again,as the commenter has done), "muscle gain" as "any increase in muscle mass anywhere".0 -
I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.
You think that builds muscle? Really?
You think it builds no muscle at all? Really?0 -
Initially if you're pushing/pulling at a much higher weight than you used to be, you'll gain some newbie muscle, but load has to progress (meaning you'd have to gain weight) to continue to build. If one is losing weight, then the resistance is being reduced.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
First, I would like to say that I agree with everyone saying that the OP gained water weight. I've personally fluctuated more than 15 pounds in a single day.
At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.
I think I probably gained around 2.5 pounds of muscle last year doing mostly just running. Of course, I also gained around 40 pounds of fat, so there was some "progressive overload."0 -
I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.
You think that builds muscle? Really?
You think it builds no muscle at all? Really?
Running will train existing muscle mass and you can condition it to store more glycogen which can be mistaken for building muscle mass, but no there is not measurable muscle building from cardio.
Do you do endurance running, perchance?At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.
Feeling soreness and fatigue from running and glycogen depletion is not a sign of building muscle.0 -
@Ctrum69 - Where are you currently at in your program? Are you just starting an exercise program from being formerly sedentary? Are you looking to lose fat, gain muscle? What's your current BF%? What's your prior experience (did you used to be a distance runner or a cyclist or something?)
I'm just trying to understand your perspective here..what's making you tick on this issue.0 -
@Ctrum69 - Where are you currently at in your program? Are you just starting an exercise program from being formerly sedentary? Are you looking to lose fat, gain muscle? What's your current BF%? What's your prior experience (did you used to be a distance runner or a cyclist or something?)
I'm just trying to understand your perspective here..what's making you tick on this issue.
I'm just interested in the fact vs the conventional browisdom.
ANd you can see that in play. "Go run! Tell me when you have 22" calves!" well duh.. nobody is saying you will build like a body builder running, cycling, etc.
I see lots of people going "You can't do it" then linking to some site oriented to selling you a workout plan, "gainers' or equipment.
I also see some science being quoted, which is great, but in reading it, I'm not sure it says what people claim it says.
I guess, what I'm seeing is a lot of absolutes slung around, which are not absolutes at all.
I also suspect that it's quite possible to be 30 pounds overweight, start lifting while eating at a sleight deficit, and put on muscle mass. Perhaps not as quickly or as easily as someone who is already at an ideal ratio and doing "everything right" and perhaps not without paying close attention to how much, and what, you are eating, but possible.
Not a 22" calf or a 75" chest. Course, 99%of the people out there can't do that with all the time and weights in the world, so it's a really silly statement to make.0 -
Practically any physical activity for that long will promote soreness. Doing situps or chewing food for that long would results in feeling it in the muscles the next couple of days.At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.
If somebody did cardio kickboxing with me (no gloves, just air box) for 6 hours, they'd feel it for sure, but it's not a muscle building workout.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Initially if you're pushing/pulling at a much higher weight than you used to be, you'll gain some newbie muscle, but load has to progress (meaning you'd have to gain weight) to continue to build. If one is losing weight, then the resistance is being reduced.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
First, I would like to say that I agree with everyone saying that the OP gained water weight. I've personally fluctuated more than 15 pounds in a single day.
At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.
I think I probably gained around 2.5 pounds of muscle last year doing mostly just running. Of course, I also gained around 40 pounds of fat, so there was some "progressive overload."
You missed a big chunk of the debate where most people agreed that running hills, like you would in trail running, would lead to some muscle gained. Especially when eating in a surplus. Which you probably did if you gained 40 lbs.
And, no thanks on the 6 hour trail run. Not my idea of fun. Awesome you can do that, though.0 -
You missed a big chunk of the debate where most people agreed that running hills, like you would in trail running, would lead to some muscle gained. Especially when eating in a surplus. Which you probably did if you gained 40 lbs.
And, no thanks on the 6 hour trail run. Not my idea of fun. Awesome you can do that, though.
Yeah, I saw that, but two people have already responded to me saying that I didn't build muscle while running hills for hours on a caloric surplus while gaining weight. It's not like a claimed a huge gain. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than two pounds of muscle. A glance down at my belly convinces me that I gained mostly fat. Still, I would be really surprised if I gained zero muscle.
edited to remove a failed attempt at making the word zero bold.0 -
Practically any physical activity for that long will promote soreness. Doing situps or chewing food for that long would results in feeling it in the muscles the next couple of days.At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.
If somebody did cardio kickboxing with me (no gloves, just air box) for 6 hours, they'd feel it for sure, but it's not a muscle building workout.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Full disclosure: my longest training run last year was only 5.5 hours, and I wasn't sore the next day.0 -
You missed a big chunk of the debate where most people agreed that running hills, like you would in trail running, would lead to some muscle gained. Especially when eating in a surplus. Which you probably did if you gained 40 lbs.
And, no thanks on the 6 hour trail run. Not my idea of fun. Awesome you can do that, though.
Yeah, I saw that, but two people have already responded to me saying that I didn't build muscle while running hills for hours on a caloric surplus while gaining weight. It's not like a claimed a huge gain. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than two pounds of muscle. A glance down at my belly convinces me that I gained mostly fat. Still, I would be really surprised if I gained zero muscle.
edited to remove a failed attempt at making the word zero bold.
I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.
When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.0 -
Absolutely true. In 4.5 years, I gained 40.4 pounds. 32.2 was fat and 8.1 was muscle. And during that time frame were periods of chronic cardio, bodybuilding-style hypertrophy programming, lifting in the strength-gaining range, absolutely sedentary activity levels and a return to lifting that paid attention to regaining form and worked in the hypertrophy/endurance ranges. In the larger picture, carrying around extra weight all day, every day while in a calorie surplus is probably the biggest stimulus to adding the muscle, and that is something that is common to both myself and the trail runner, despite our disparate training regimens.I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.
When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.0 -
I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.
When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.
I'm sure that's fair. Still, I likely gained more than I would have being sedentary, right?
(I've never used any sort of accurate bf% measurement, so it's all a guess anyway)0 -
I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.
When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.
I'm sure that's fair. Still, I likely gained more than I would have being sedentary, right?
(I've never used any sort of accurate bf% measurement, so it's all a guess anyway)
No way to know for certain. Just carrying the extra weight would increase the resistance of everything you do.
The good thing is that staying active was probably a good thing for overall health after adding an extra 30lbs of body fat.0 -
That wasn't my point. People unaccustomed to working out on programs they aren't familiar with will feel it in there muscles the next couple of days was my point.
Practically any physical activity for that long will promote soreness. Doing situps or chewing food for that long would results in feeling it in the muscles the next couple of days.At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.
If somebody did cardio kickboxing with me (no gloves, just air box) for 6 hours, they'd feel it for sure, but it's not a muscle building workout.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Full disclosure: my longest training run last year was only 5.5 hours, and I wasn't sore the next day.
Do yoga or pilates for that 5.5 hours. Guaranteed you'll be sore the next day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
When I asked this question I had no idea it was such a heated topic, so in summery no I'm not gaining muscle from cardio and iits water weight that's the problem.0
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@Ctrum69 - Where are you currently at in your program? Are you just starting an exercise program from being formerly sedentary? Are you looking to lose fat, gain muscle? What's your current BF%? What's your prior experience (did you used to be a distance runner or a cyclist or something?)
I'm just trying to understand your perspective here..what's making you tick on this issue.
I'm just interested in the fact vs the conventional browisdom.
ANd you can see that in play. "Go run! Tell me when you have 22" calves!" well duh.. nobody is saying you will build like a body builder running, cycling, etc.
I see lots of people going "You can't do it" then linking to some site oriented to selling you a workout plan, "gainers' or equipment.
I also see some science being quoted, which is great, but in reading it, I'm not sure it says what people claim it says.
I guess, what I'm seeing is a lot of absolutes slung around, which are not absolutes at all.
I also suspect that it's quite possible to be 30 pounds overweight, start lifting while eating at a sleight deficit, and put on muscle mass. Perhaps not as quickly or as easily as someone who is already at an ideal ratio and doing "everything right" and perhaps not without paying close attention to how much, and what, you are eating, but possible.
Not a 22" calf or a 75" chest. Course, 99%of the people out there can't do that with all the time and weights in the world, so it's a really silly statement to make.
There are 3 known, proven times when you can gain muscle on a deficit.
1) Steroids
2) Noob gains (Here's your 30 lb person that starts lifting), or returning to lifting from extended break (like injury)
3) Extreme obesity
There's a 4th maybe involving very strict nutritional control and very slow gains- I think one protocol for it is laid out in leangains. The reason I say maybe here is that it's probably possible but unlikely to be a successful approach because it's frustratingly slow and the dieter would have to maintain meticulous nutritional control for such a long time, that the results aren't really worth the effort for most people to stick with it.
Every "browisdom" person you're preaching to already knows about these caveats. They're not meaningful in the long run (except steroids). They're small gains and they're short lived. When their time period expires, the noob or obese individual goes back to needing to minimize losses like everyone else. Most people will gain and then lose this small amount of muscle without ever knowing the difference.0 -
When I asked this question I had no idea it was such a heated topic, so in summery no I'm not gaining muscle from cardio and iits water weight that's the problem.
Too much cardio will actual breakdown and feed off your muscle (you will end up with less).
Spend less time in the gym and do resistance training (lifting weights), HIIT and maybe a 7 or 8 full out 15 second sprints.0 -
When I asked this question I had no idea it was such a heated topic, so in summery no I'm not gaining muscle from cardio and iits water weight that's the problem.
Have you changed you're diet?
Unless you're eating the right way for your training style you'll struggle to achieve your goal diet is about 80% of the battle.0 -
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