Building muscle vs. building strength? same thing?

JoRocka

Bottom line is:

-You can build muscle only, strength only, or both. Usually, some of both goes together.

Can't.
You inadvertently get strength gains when going for hypertrophy and vice versa. You can maximize one or the other, but you can't just do one without getting any of the other.

Not that I know of anyone who would want to only have big muscles without strength or strength with twig-like arms.

LOL tell that to my muscles.

I was trying to bulk ONLY to be able to gain size to pull a higher dead lift. My numbers have gone down. I think I'm getting fatter and weaker doing all this stupid hypertrophy crap.

stupid 8 reps. it's 3-5 reps to many!

mhankosk

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!

I was trying to find studies telling how much energy a pound of fat versus a pound of muscle burns in a day if you're not moving a lot. (We're talking not during exercise.)

I read that a pound of fat burns about 6 kcal a day.

As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?

Doesn't really answer the question but thanks for the info! That's really interesting!

firstsip

In for info.

girlschmoopie

As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!

To clarify, you think my increased strength is a trick of my CNS, and my little loss of roughly 10# is making my exercises easier? Am I understanding correctly that, even though I have progressed to lifting heavier dumbbells that it isn't really increasing my strength?

I hope you are wrong. I feel completely deflated by your post.

girlschmoopie

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

VERY GOOD QUESTION!!! I'm watching for the answer from our more experienced lifters too!

I was trying to find studies telling how much energy a pound of fat versus a pound of muscle burns in a day if you're not moving a lot. (We're talking not during exercise.)

I read that a pound of fat burns about 6 kcal a day.

As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?

Thanks! I know I have heard similar things, but it is all Greek to me.

girlschmoopie

reminds me of a joke.


a power lifter is someone to fat to be a body builder.

a body builder is someone to weak to be a power lifter.

Thanks, I needed the smile that came with reading your post.

Huffdogg

As for muscle, they used to think it was 100-150 kcal per day, but it turned out to be an outrageously high number, and they're saying it's closer to 12 kcal actually. That's good news, because can you imagine having to eat an extra 150 calories for every new pound of muscle you add, for your whole life...just to maintain it...let alone add more?

You say "having to."
I think "getting to."

Huffdogg

reminds me of a joke.


a power lifter is someone to fat to be a body builder.

a body builder is someone to weak to be a power lifter.

LOL

sbarella

Bump for later. I'm not into bulking but it's supah-interesting.

Huffdogg

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

Your BMR will not increase due to favorable CNS adaptations. Only increased body mass will increase your BMR. Is that what you're asking?

Huffdogg

As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!

To clarify, you think my increased strength is a trick of my CNS, and my little loss of roughly 10# is making my exercises easier? Am I understanding correctly that, even though I have progressed to lifting heavier dumbbells that it isn't really increasing my strength?

I hope you are wrong. I feel completely deflated by your post.

I'm not sure why this would be deflating you. You lost weight AND got stronger. Yes, bodyweight exercises will get easier as you 1. train with progressive overload and 2. get lighter. You're getting stronger AND lighter. That's basic math. But there's nothing to be upset about here. You're accomplishing two worthy goals simultaneously, which is MUCH harder than getting stronger while gaining weight (or getting weaker while losing it).

JoRocka

As people have pointed out, the strength gains you've seen are likely to be CNS gains rather than muscle strength.
Bear in mind also that you have lost weight, and that you are performing exercises where the resistance is provided by your own bodyweight.
Thus even though you may seem comparatively stronger, you might have actually not build any muscle or strength at all, and that you could even have lost muscle mass. The exercises just seem easier because you're not as heavy!

To clarify, you think my increased strength is a trick of my CNS, and my little loss of roughly 10# is making my exercises easier? Am I understanding correctly that, even though I have progressed to lifting heavier dumbbells that it isn't really increasing my strength?

I hope you are wrong. I feel completely deflated by your post.

I'm not sure why this would be deflating you. You lost weight AND got stronger. Yes, bodyweight exercises will get easier as you 1. train with progressive overload and 2. get lighter. You're getting stronger AND lighter. That's basic math. But there's nothing to be upset about here. You're accomplishing two worthy goals simultaneously, which is MUCH harder than getting stronger while gaining weight (or getting weaker while losing it).

Troof.

It's not a trick. it is what it is. Dont' be deflated- becoming a more awesome version of you happens in many stages. You're on the right track!!!

mhankosk

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

Your BMR will not increase due to favorable CNS adaptations. Only increased body mass will increase your BMR. Is that what you're asking?

No... I am trying to lose weight.. My question in different terms: Does "stronger" muscle burn more calories at rest than a weaker muscle. Or does muscle burn the same regardless of how "strong" it is?

Huffdogg

Ok so.. there is that whole "muscle burns more at rest than fat does... increased metabolism" thing. You are eating at a deficit and lifting, therefore making the muscle you already have stronger. Does that rule still apply? Or does your metabolism only increase by building new muscle? Just curious...

Your BMR will not increase due to favorable CNS adaptations. Only increased body mass will increase your BMR. Is that what you're asking?

No... I am trying to lose weight.. My question in different terms: Does "stronger" muscle burn more calories at rest than a weaker muscle. Or does muscle burn the same regardless of how "strong" it is?

I thought that was what you were asking, and I answered it. To be clearer: no, strength does not change your calorie burn.

loriemn

bumping to watch

minizebu

There's actually a whole YouTube series called "Nice body; now what can you do with it?" where a bodybuilder trains alongside powerlifters and weightlifters and xfitters to see how his chiseled physique actually performs. Pretty interesting.

Thanks for posting about this series. I just watched the first few minutes of the bodybuilding vs. powerlifting episode (part 8, I think).

Anyway, I'm bumping this thread to keep up with this discussion when I have time to read more later.

OverDoIt

Some peoplehave different muscle fiber makeup and they are incredibly stronger than people much more muscular than them. Unfortunately, these people are very rare and I have witnessed over the years maybe 5 or 6 of them. We are talking about 175lb men with 15" biceps pulling 5 plates for reps on deadlifts. Strength is measured over time for the average human, put in your work and see where this thing takes you. good luck.