Deadlift and Overhead Press - Some Lessons Learned
darreneatschicken
Posts: 669 Member
Had a trainer at my local gym watch me overhead press and deadlift today. Going to note down everything I learned so that I never forget it and also to get some more feedback:
Overhead press:
1. Grip bar a bit more than shoulder-width apart (for me I had my palms positioned directly in-between the middle of the bar and the small line)
2. Step back - feet shoulder stance apart
3. Tighten glutes so that your lower back is not used to support or push the weight upwards
4. Chest out and shoulders pinched back, just as you would during bench press and deadlift
5. While keeping wrists straight (and not bent back), push bar upwards and as you do, focus on forcing your elbows forward into the direction of the mirror (and thus, in front of the bar)
6. On youtube videos, people tell you to lean back as you lift the bar and to lean forward as the bar descends, but the trainer didn't tell me to do this today, and I didn't feel the need to?
7. Fill your chest with air at the top
8. As you descend, make sure you maintain the straight wrists and 'forward' elbows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3QY5vMz_6I
This is a good tutorial on how to overhead press. Where the guy holds the bar, is where the trainer told me to hold the bar today. Gotta admit, it felt pretty wide. Nevertheless, i'm going to keep reminding myself of these steps each time I do this exercise. I am going to start the next workout, 5 sets of 5 reps of just the barbell.
Deadlift:
Going to start doing this exercise properly with just the barbell as well. As a result, I am starting the barbell on the squat rack, and doing a conventional deadlift still, not touching the floor with the barbell.
1. Grip right outside the small ring (closer to the middle)
2. Pin shoulder blades back, just as you would during overhead press and bench press
3. Tighten lower back
4. Lean forward - remember to maintain shoulder blades back and tightened lower back
5. As the bar starts to go past your knees, bend them!
6. At the bottom of the movement, push with your heels and force hips forward, making sure not to exaggerate the movement at the top
The most challenging part of this exercise is maintaining the flex in your lower back (as to maintain a tight, thus, straight back) throughout the movement. Also, keeping shoulder blades pinned back the entire time is demanding as well. I know I've been doing this exercise wrong the entire time because today when I did it with the trainer, it was so much more challenging!
Note about bench press:
I think I have this exercise down pretty pat. The one thing I can't seem to do though is to maintain the pinned back shoulders throughout the exercise. This may be due to the fact that I'm not using a very wide grip on the bar. I dunno because a trainer told me to use a more narrower grip because I had a small frame, and also to reduce the risk of straining your wrists (your wrists should be straight all the way through by the way)! So, I'm going to ask another trainer to watch me next time I bench press.
Overhead press:
1. Grip bar a bit more than shoulder-width apart (for me I had my palms positioned directly in-between the middle of the bar and the small line)
2. Step back - feet shoulder stance apart
3. Tighten glutes so that your lower back is not used to support or push the weight upwards
4. Chest out and shoulders pinched back, just as you would during bench press and deadlift
5. While keeping wrists straight (and not bent back), push bar upwards and as you do, focus on forcing your elbows forward into the direction of the mirror (and thus, in front of the bar)
6. On youtube videos, people tell you to lean back as you lift the bar and to lean forward as the bar descends, but the trainer didn't tell me to do this today, and I didn't feel the need to?
7. Fill your chest with air at the top
8. As you descend, make sure you maintain the straight wrists and 'forward' elbows
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3QY5vMz_6IThis is a good tutorial on how to overhead press. Where the guy holds the bar, is where the trainer told me to hold the bar today. Gotta admit, it felt pretty wide. Nevertheless, i'm going to keep reminding myself of these steps each time I do this exercise. I am going to start the next workout, 5 sets of 5 reps of just the barbell.
Deadlift:
Going to start doing this exercise properly with just the barbell as well. As a result, I am starting the barbell on the squat rack, and doing a conventional deadlift still, not touching the floor with the barbell.
1. Grip right outside the small ring (closer to the middle)
2. Pin shoulder blades back, just as you would during overhead press and bench press
3. Tighten lower back
4. Lean forward - remember to maintain shoulder blades back and tightened lower back
5. As the bar starts to go past your knees, bend them!
6. At the bottom of the movement, push with your heels and force hips forward, making sure not to exaggerate the movement at the top
The most challenging part of this exercise is maintaining the flex in your lower back (as to maintain a tight, thus, straight back) throughout the movement. Also, keeping shoulder blades pinned back the entire time is demanding as well. I know I've been doing this exercise wrong the entire time because today when I did it with the trainer, it was so much more challenging!
Note about bench press:
I think I have this exercise down pretty pat. The one thing I can't seem to do though is to maintain the pinned back shoulders throughout the exercise. This may be due to the fact that I'm not using a very wide grip on the bar. I dunno because a trainer told me to use a more narrower grip because I had a small frame, and also to reduce the risk of straining your wrists (your wrists should be straight all the way through by the way)! So, I'm going to ask another trainer to watch me next time I bench press.
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Replies
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Sounds like you found a trainer with some decent knowledge of lifting.
On the OHP, I like to use the "hip thrust" method, taught by Rippetoe in Starting Strength v3. Mostly because it works for me and because I respect his knowledge.Deadlift:
Going to start doing this exercise properly with just the barbell as well. As a result, I am starting the barbell on the squat rack, and doing a conventional deadlift still, not touching the floor with the barbell.
This isn't a Conventional Deadlift. A true deadlift starts from the floor, hence the name Deadlift.
What you describe sounds like a Romanian Deadlift. Nothing wrong with it, just a variation. One thing you didn't mention, was the positioning of the bar, which should be over the middle of your foot. Not just the part you can see when you look down, but the true middle of your foot. Keep your arms straight and the bar in contact with your legs, all the way up.
Good luck on your lifting! It's changing my life and my body and has become my new addiction. :happy:0 -
Part 6 of shoulder press: I don't think it matters...for weight lifters. Some power lifters or Olympic lifters will bring the head forward at the top of the press when elbows are locked...it might just be engrained in them to do this based on other moves, a way to show the press is clean for judges, a way to drop the bar in front of them while moving back to prevent injury, etc.0
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For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.0 -
This isn't a Conventional Deadlift. A true deadlift starts from the floor, hence the name Deadlift. What you describe sounds like a Romanian Deadlift. Nothing wrong with it, just a variation.
Um, what? The difference between a Stiff Legged Deadlift and a Romanian deadlift is in the knees and the movement, not in whether or not the bar is on the ground. And since you should never round your back during a deadlift, it is advised by most trainers to put the bar on steps or the rack to get the correct height if needed.0 -
This isn't a Conventional Deadlift. A true deadlift starts from the floor, hence the name Deadlift. What you describe sounds like a Romanian Deadlift. Nothing wrong with it, just a variation.
Um, what? The difference between a Stiff Legged Deadlift and a Romanian deadlift is in the knees and the movement, not in whether or not the bar is on the ground. And since you should never round your back during a deadlift, it is advised by most trainers to put the bar on steps or the rack to get the correct height if needed.
What are you talking about?0 -
Um, what? The difference between a Stiff Legged Deadlift and a Romanian deadlift is in the knees and the movement, not in whether or not the bar is on the ground. And since you should never round your back during a deadlift, it is advised by most trainers to put the bar on steps or the rack to get the correct height if needed.
When I used to coach we had some 5 lb bumper plates that are as tall as 45s. They were awesome for this purpose. Very expensive if you just thought of them as 5 lb plates though.
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This isn't a Conventional Deadlift. A true deadlift starts from the floor, hence the name Deadlift. What you describe sounds like a Romanian Deadlift. Nothing wrong with it, just a variation.
Um, what? The difference between a Stiff Legged Deadlift and a Romanian deadlift is in the knees and the movement, not in whether or not the bar is on the ground. And since you should never round your back during a deadlift, it is advised by most trainers to put the bar on steps or the rack to get the correct height if needed.
What are you talking about?
Well if she's just starting with the bar, it's going to be a bit lower than a bar with 45 pound plates attached0 -
This isn't a Conventional Deadlift. A true deadlift starts from the floor, hence the name Deadlift. What you describe sounds like a Romanian Deadlift. Nothing wrong with it, just a variation.
Um, what? The difference between a Stiff Legged Deadlift and a Romanian deadlift is in the knees and the movement, not in whether or not the bar is on the ground. And since you should never round your back during a deadlift, it is advised by most trainers to put the bar on steps or the rack to get the correct height if needed.
What are you talking about?
Well if she's just starting with the bar, it's going to be a bit lower than a bar with 45 pound plates attached
oooohhhh didn't read she just had the bar0 -
I missed the part about just starting with the bar, too! I did a mixture of stacking plates and RDL's, until I was able to use the "big girl plates". Thank goodness I don't have to stack plates anymore!!! :happy:0
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Thanks everyone for your replies!
Yes, I got to remember to keep the bar almost touching my legs throughout the whole movement of deadlift. And also to start by having the bar directly over the middle of my foot.
And since I started with an empty barbell on the rack, I didn't start from the ground, so I was like to the trainer: "so I'm doing romanian deadlifts." And he was like no: "you're still doing conventional deadlifts, just not resting the weight on the ground."0 -
For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.
Agree! Don't pull your shoulders back, they should be over the bar. Your grip, depends on how far you feet are apart, and not the bar. Everything should be as closed as possible, bar to the shin, hands right outside of your leg. You want the shortest trip vertical as possible.
Also, think of deadlifts as a pushing exercise and not pulling. The bar is there for leverage and your pushing the floor away from you.0 -
For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.
Agree! Don't pull your shoulders back, they should be over the bar. Your grip, depends on how far you feet are apart, and not the bar. Everything should be as closed as possible, bar to the shin, hands right outside of your leg. You want the shortest trip vertical as possible.
Also, think of deadlifts as a pushing exercise and not pulling. The bar is there for leverage and your pushing the floor away from you.
Why did my trainer tell me to pull my shoulder blades back, then? Isn't it proper form?0 -
For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.
Agree! Don't pull your shoulders back, they should be over the bar. Your grip, depends on how far you feet are apart, and not the bar. Everything should be as closed as possible, bar to the shin, hands right outside of your leg. You want the shortest trip vertical as possible.
Also, think of deadlifts as a pushing exercise and not pulling. The bar is there for leverage and your pushing the floor away from you.
Why did my trainer tell me to pull my shoulder blades back, then? Isn't it proper form?
Your trainer told you to pull your shoulders back and down to engage those muscles. The other poster is talking about the angle of your body, your shoulders should be in front of the bar when you are in the starting position. This does not mean you should shrug your shoulders up by your ears to get there.0 -
For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.
Agree! Don't pull your shoulders back, they should be over the bar. Your grip, depends on how far you feet are apart, and not the bar. Everything should be as closed as possible, bar to the shin, hands right outside of your leg. You want the shortest trip vertical as possible.
Also, think of deadlifts as a pushing exercise and not pulling. The bar is there for leverage and your pushing the floor away from you.
Why did my trainer tell me to pull my shoulder blades back, then? Isn't it proper form?
Your trainer told you to pull your shoulders back and down to engage those muscles. The other poster is talking about the angle of your body, your shoulders should be in front of the bar when you are in the starting position. This does not mean you should shrug your shoulders up by your ears to get there.
Okay, so I should pin my shoulders back and down, rather than back and up ?0 -
few more pointers wiht deadlift:
make sure you're not looking ' up' when you're picking the bar off the ground. Head and back should be in a straight line.
Don't 'yank' the weight off the floor, you're more likely to throw out your back.
Use gradual tension to lift the barbell off the floor, then explode up with your legs/hips.0 -
For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.
Agree! Don't pull your shoulders back, they should be over the bar. Your grip, depends on how far you feet are apart, and not the bar. Everything should be as closed as possible, bar to the shin, hands right outside of your leg. You want the shortest trip vertical as possible.
Also, think of deadlifts as a pushing exercise and not pulling. The bar is there for leverage and your pushing the floor away from you.
Why did my trainer tell me to pull my shoulder blades back, then? Isn't it proper form?
do you have issues with having your shoulders too far forward? like what can easily happen to desk workers?0 -
Notice that her shoulders are slightly forward compared to the bar, creating a slight angle from the top of her shoulder to her hands:
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Probably to help keep you from rounding your back too much, but that's not the right way to do it. When your shoulders are pulled back, then you have to get down lower to the floor to reach the bar, when you get down too low, you lose your maximal leverage position, and then what usually happens is your hips naturally come up to the leverage point and you start the lift with your hips too high. If you let your shoulders take a more natural position, you can get down to the bar easier. By keeping your head up, that will help keep your back from rounding.For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.
Agree! Don't pull your shoulders back, they should be over the bar. Your grip, depends on how far you feet are apart, and not the bar. Everything should be as closed as possible, bar to the shin, hands right outside of your leg. You want the shortest trip vertical as possible.
Also, think of deadlifts as a pushing exercise and not pulling. The bar is there for leverage and your pushing the floor away from you.
Why did my trainer tell me to pull my shoulder blades back, then? Isn't it proper form?0 -
For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.
For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.
Agree! Don't pull your shoulders back, they should be over the bar. Your grip, depends on how far you feet are apart, and not the bar. Everything should be as closed as possible, bar to the shin, hands right outside of your leg. You want the shortest trip vertical as possible.
Also, think of deadlifts as a pushing exercise and not pulling. The bar is there for leverage and your pushing the floor away from you.
Why did my trainer tell me to pull my shoulder blades back, then? Isn't it proper form?
Your trainer told you to pull your shoulders back and down to engage those muscles. The other poster is talking about the angle of your body, your shoulders should be in front of the bar when you are in the starting position. This does not mean you should shrug your shoulders up by your ears to get there.
Exactly!! Sorry for the confusion. Another thing its good for , is to avoid looking up that way as well, like another poster mentioned. Sometimes when people are told to put there shoulders back, its a little to much.0 -
Notice that her shoulders are slightly forward compared to the bar, creating a slight angle from the top of her shoulder to her hands:
Nice pic to show this!!0 -
so I shouldn't pin my shoulders back at all? Just look forward like the girl in the picture and that will keep my back from rounding?0
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so I shouldn't pin my shoulders back at all? Just look forward like the girl in the picture and that will keep my back from rounding?
Shoulders blades back yes, but still have your shoulders over the bar is what we are saying, helps the back from not rounding and keeps it tight0 -
okay thanks guys, I think I'm going to go find the same trainer, tell him to watch me again, and this time, to make sure that my shoulders are pinned back, but, at the same time, that they are over the bar as well0
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No one is going to listen if they believe they're already doing it correctly... I think this post had good intentions, but fell into the pit of offering advice when no one wanted it.0
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No one is going to listen if they believe they're already doing it correctly... I think this post had good intentions, but fell into the pit of offering advice when no one wanted it.
The OP posted what he was given, and asked for feeback, isn't that advice?0 -
No one is going to listen if they believe they're already doing it correctly... I think this post had good intentions, but fell into the pit of offering advice when no one wanted it.
The OP posted what he was given, and asked for feeback, isn't that advice?
yeah, I want feedback, and I'm willing to listen to people0 -
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I think "shoulders back" is more of a cue than an actual anatomical layout during the lift. There is definitely shoulder recruitment, but, nobody pulling anything remotely heavy [to them] is going to actually have their shoulders "back" and pinched.0
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