Deadlift and Overhead Press - Some Lessons Learned

danimalkeys

I was advised specifically NOT to grip the bar tightly by a world class lifter. He said the bar should hang in your hand with your fingers like a hook. This has been my approach and has worked for me through a 600 lb deadlift even with my tiny hands. I don't squeeze the bar. I would say find what works for you.

I agree. Your hands/fingers are just hooks.

darreneatschicken

omg. conflicting advice. again.

if your fingers are just like hooks, I can see how that would be good for learning how to push from your hips and glutes, but how are you supposed to hold a heavy weight?

steve0820

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/deconstructing-the-deadlift/

darreneatschicken

UPDATE:

Had my first personal training session today

We were working on deadlifting, but in reality, we didn't do much actual deadlifting.

First, we nailed down the fact that I have been using my back to lift the weight this entire time. Not a surprise to me at all. He said that I have programmed my body to use my back, and now we must reprogram and reverse my body.

Deadlift is an exercise where the main muscles being worked are the hamstrings (part behind your thigh), and your glutes (*kitten*). Squats use more of your quads (front of your thigh).

Now the main problem:

MY BODY DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO USE IT'S GLUTES

THIS HAS BEEN THE PROBLEM THE ENTIRE TIME

EVERYTIME I DL, I AM PULLING WITH MY BACK, AND MY BACK ONLY

We spent a long time doing exercises where he tried to get my body to activate my glutes.

I have to admit this was very difficult, as I have never ever used my glutes before! Therefore, I had no idea how to do it, or how it should feel!

This is why I recommend every newbie to get a personal trainer: everyone has their own unique weakness. Mine is not knowing how to activate my glutes. You can spend hours and hours watching youtube videos and reading articles (which is what I did) and still end up doing the exercise wrong (which is what I did)! The thing is: if you're a newbie, you have no idea what the exercise is supposed to feel like, therefore, how are you supposed to know how to do the exercise?

Anyways, I'm going to list the exercises we were doing to help me "deactivate" my back and activate my glutes; get a feel for them.

First, my trainer had me lay facing down on a mat. He then had me raise one leg USING MY GLUTES AND NOT MY BACK. Obviously, I struggled tremendously to do this. I couldn't help but use my back.

Next exercise was the hip thrust. Now, I struggled with this exercise at first as well, but by the end of the session, I was beginning to use more of my hamstrings and glutes. Pretty much what this exercise is, is you lay facing up with knees up and brought close to your body. Now the vital part: push from your heels (NOT YOUR BACK GODDAMNIT), and raise your upper body up. I could not get this the first few times, so the trainer had me lift my toes up and slant my feet away from my body so that I would only be able to push from my heels. This helped a lot, and as a result, I really got a feel for the movement.

We also worked on breathing. He had me place one hand on my chest, and one hand on my belly, and told me that the hand on my chest cannot move as I breath. I was like: "wtf?" how do I breath then? "Breath from your belly," he said. "Make yourself fat." This took some time, but eventually, I got it. I can do it now. As I sit typing this, my belly is moving in and out, in and out. The key to this is to take deep breaths, concentrating deeply on inhaling and exhaling. At first, I could only use my belly to exhale, then, after more practice, I could also inhale with it. But before all this, I was freaking out: "like omg! how do I "deactivate my chest and breath without it?" I dunno how, but after like 5 minutes of constant breathing I eventually got this "belly breathing down."

Good mornings: take a light wooden stick, treat it as an Olympic barbell, and get into position as if you are about to squat. Instead of squatting, push back with your *kitten* without bending knees. As a result, you will slowly bend forward, getting a good stretch in your hammies. This is what the descending part of DL should feel like.

So after all this "going crazy," we got to go back to the bar to practice actual deadlifting. Here are the DL steps (from what I learned today):

1. Bar over middle of foot

2. Bend over and grip the bar HARD (you will see why in a sec)

3. Suck your belly in towards the bar, move your hips towards the bar. Doing all this will cause your back to be straight. Essentially, you want to force your lower back towards the bar, as to make it straight (and not rounded). You also want to pull back and drop your shoulders.

Number 3 is the hardest step. Not because it is hard to achieve, but because achieving this position will make your entire body TENSE. Seriously, my trainer told me to hold this position while he took a picture of my back, and I was in so much pain! Not bad pain of course, but good pain

All in all, it takes a lot of effort to achieve a straight back! If your entire body is not tense and hurting before you start the lift, you are not setting up correctly!

4. FLEX YOUR LEGS A LOT. Then proceed to push from your heels, through your hips like you're falling back, WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY RAISING THE BAR WITH YOUR ARMS.

Now this is why you have a hard grip on the bar. Before today, I thought that you shouldn't be using your arms to lift the bar, but I realized that if I only use my lower body to lift the bar, IT SIMPLY WON'T HAPPEN. For example, I tried pushing just the bar (45 lbs) upwards using my lower body only, without using my arms to assist, and I couldn't do it. This made me realize that your arms must assist your lower body to get the bar up.

Also, my trainer told me not to think about it as using my arms. He said that it is your lats that are activated. Your arms have little involvement in the lift. I just said "arms" because that's what it looks like / feels like. But the trainer felt my lats during this movement, and he said that they were activated (good)!

This is also why it is so important to flex your legs. Without doing so, you aren't activating your glutes and hamstrings, and thus, are only pulling with your arms and back.

danimalkeys

glutes come into play as you are locking out the lift, once the bar is past your knees. If you drive your hips towards the bar when it's at that point, that'll activate your glutes.

I don't agree about taking a death grip on the bar. Your hands are simply hooks connected to your arms for this lift.

I'm also going to disagree about squats being more of a quad exercise. Done properly they hit your glutes and hams as good as deads do.

JoRocka

nice update- there are some question marks in there for me- but over all the cues and work seems to be pretty spot on. Glad to know you learned how to use your glutes- that good morning (that leaning forward/*kitten* out thing) is a really great stretch/engagement tool)

Good job.

I was advised specifically NOT to grip the bar tightly by a world class lifter. He said the bar should hang in your hand with your fingers like a hook. This has been my approach and has worked for me through a 600 lb deadlift even with my tiny hands. I don't squeeze the bar. I would say find what works for you.

I agree. Your hands/fingers are just hooks.

yes- but you cannot hold a heavy with with just a hooked finger- you have to actually be holding the bar- but you aren't PULLING with your hands/arms.

I always explain that your arms are like straps on a crane- they do nothing but HOLD the weight as a method to help move- the engine/crane have nothing to do with what's holding it.

juliewatkin

For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.

For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.

It's an individual thing for sure. I pull with my shoulders rounded down (not pulled back) as it lengthens your arms and shortens your stroke. Where that will bite you in the butt is lock out.

danimalkeys

For overhead press I think you're better off experimenting with grip and finding the strongest position for yourself.

For deadlift pulling your shoulder blades back will limit how much you can lift. You won't find too many powerlifters doing that and definitely not the ones with the biggest deadlifts.

It's an individual thing for sure. I pull with my shoulders rounded down (not pulled back) as it lengthens your arms and shortens your stroke. Where that will bite you in the butt is lock out.

That's how I do it too.

Kirk_R

It's an individual thing for sure. I pull with my shoulders rounded down (not pulled back) as it lengthens your arms and shortens your stroke. Where that will bite you in the butt is lock out.

Check out Konstantin Konstantinov's vids to see this approach from one of the best recent DLers..

juliewatkin

It's an individual thing for sure. I pull with my shoulders rounded down (not pulled back) as it lengthens your arms and shortens your stroke. Where that will bite you in the butt is lock out.

Check out Konstantin Konstantinov's vids to see this approach from one of the best recent DLers..

He is a beast for sure. Most of the best deadlifters I've seen have deliberately rolled their shoulders down to their advantage.

darreneatschicken

UPDATE:

Practiced more DL form today.

Also did some good mornings:

I have to remember to bend forward with my hips, rather than push back with my *kitten*.

My trainer said that is the way it should feel when performing the descending part of DL.

All this time, I've been DL, pushing my *kitten* back, but I realize now I've been doing it wrong.

Bend forward, using your hips instead.

Wooden stick is held like you would squatting, because this keeps your shoulder blades pinched ---> straighter back

darreneatschicken

Question:

During the descending movement of DL, do you move your *kitten* back while simultaneously leaning forward, or do you just bend forward?

I've been moving my *kitten* back while simultaneously leaning forward (all the while trying to maintain a straight back with shoulders pinched and a tight lower back) because I feel like if I just bent forward without bending my knees, I would be doing more of an SDL.

My trainer has been watching me, so I assume I'm doing it right.

darreneatschicken

Me deadlifting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu0imZZ963k&feature=youtu.be

darreneatschicken

Quick note:

Found out today the proper way to squeeze / flex your glutes: think of trying to hold a walnut in between your *kitten* cheeks.

My trainer told me that you should begin squeezing your glutes as the bar starts to go above your knees and at the top of the movement, fully flex your glutes.

Before today, I thought of flexing my glutes as first flexing my hamstrings to then flex the glutes. But by using the walnut cue, I can take away most of the hamstring involvement.

However, squeezing my glutes without total use of hamstrings, I find hard to do while deadlifting as compared to just standing still. So, this will take some practice. Just gotta use the chestnut cue during my DL sessions.

WVprankster

#6: if you don't move your face out of the way, how do you not take off your nose when you lower the bar?