Paleo or South Beach?
Replies
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For vacation? South Beach.0
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and to date no-one has provided any documented studies or evidence that the primal blue print does not reduce body fat or maintain lean mass - so that would suggest it works.
I appreciate your contribution to this thread, but the above...that isn't typically how science works. People don't pour money into proving a negative. The burden of proof in any debate is on the affirmative. What would be compelling is empirical evidence to the affirmative. The absence of evidence in the negative proves nothing...
Wow, what a great body swerve. Good on ya.0 -
Por qué no, ni0
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Ok. Well good luck. I hope you find what works. I guess then, for me, it would be easy to stop eating all that stuff.
Have you been tested? I tend to distrust the medical community when it comes to this. They tend to say stop eating 90% of all food groups and see if that works. I'm exaggerating to make a point about how I detest their process.
When you're all done, you don't really know what was the cause, you think it's bread, and pasta, and rice, and red meat , and, ..., and..., and, when really, it's a small part of some of those foods that you need to eliminate, not the entire macronutrient class of foods. But, I understand that trial and error is painful and listen to the professionals is a good move right now.
Macronutrients are not a "class of foods"
I'd suggest that overtime, you get more specific testing and force them to exactly tell you what is causing your problem. Not a general description of carbs and red meat, but get down to the specific process that occurs when you consume a type of food and why that happens.
You obviously have no idea how expensive it is to determine the mechanism of action for multiple biological processes that contribute to a constellation of symptoms. No insurance plan would ever cover it. Those diagnostic tools likely don't even exist, since you cannot eliminate confounding variables. That is why we use trial and error. It's safe and inexpensive.You may not really have to restrict your diet as much as you think. In the end, it's your life. I wouldn't settle on such wide-sweeping advice, unless I was convinced it's true.
But that isn't how this process works, and clinicians know that. An elimination diet plan is an effective means of identifying problem foods. You eliminate most, and add things back one at a time over a period of weeks while using a food journal to track symptoms and foods. Her doctor is giving her sound advice.One large issue we have going on right now is a doctor tells a patient to cut carbs, stop eating gluten, and don't eat sugar. The patient does that and feels better. But, no one really knows what the problem was. Yes, all that solved it, but which specific element was causing an issue? What is the issue? The answer is no one knows. It is like your car breaks down. So, the mechanic says he will replace the engine. So, the car is fixed with the new engine, but no one knows what was wrong with the old engine and did it even need to be replaced? It's a ridiculous way to practice medicine.
:noway:0 -
Neither. Fad diets are unsustainable. You can stick with it for a short time and see significant weight loss but when and I do mean when someone stops following the diet all the weight comes back on.
The only sustainable way is to count all your calories eaten and calories burned and be honest with yourself in doing so.0 -
Well, you've only kind of alluded to what may be wrong with you, based on certain foods. Have you been tested for food allergies or gluten intolerance?0
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I'd suggest you eat at a calorie deficit, make sure you get plenty of protein (sea food an ideal source):
After that, I'd follow a diet along the following...No bread, rice, pasta, and as few gluten products as possible.
-High in fiber (I have severe colon issues following childbirth)
-I love seafood- and I live in Louisiana, so I have access to a variety of fresh seafood.
-Low sugar- still a little fuzzy on what fruits constitute as "low in sugar" and would be the best for me digestively
There is no need to copy some fad.
I would agree with the above about trying to find a specific problem.
This is the exact advice you should follow.0 -
Does it involve eating at a Calorie deficit?Also just to point out I have been on the MFP site for a couple of weeks now and they are really helpful, and to date no-one has provided any documented studies or evidence that the primal blue print does not reduce body fat or maintain lean mass - so that would suggest it works.
If it does, there's plenty of evidence from research that shows you will lose weight.
Similarly, high protein for helping maintain lean mass.
I did mention in the post it involves eating a calorie deficit. - So you conquer it works (and can therefore be put forward as a suggestion).
After all there's a lot of different options, not all of which will suit the OP - I'm not saying this one will - it's just there in the hat!0 -
No, it's not.Neither. They are stupid diets that don't last and the incredibly restrictive nature of them sets you up to fail before you even start. Use MFP how it is intended and eat at a calorie deficit.
That's it. Losing weight is easy. Just eat at a deficit. There is no reason to deprive yourself of anything.
Is South Beach really all that restrictive?0 -
Sounds to me like you already have a plan! Focus on lean protein sources (seafood is an excellent one), enjoy your fruits and veggies (if looking for low-glycemic, there are thousands of online resources and shopping lists) and if you include whole grains in moderation you have a well rounded plan. The problems I can see you having is avoiding high fat cooking. I live near the gulf in Texas and we love to fry just like Louisiana. When making food or ordering it, make sure the amount of fat/oil you use is "condiment sized", like the tip of your thumb. There is nothing wrong with fat per say, but it's caloric density makes it easy to over do. Steam or over-fry (bake) whenever you can. Healthy whole fats like avocado & nuts are wonderful for you, but these should be incorporated thoughtfully.
Like others have said, a calorie deficit will allow you to lose weight. I would avoid a restrictive plan, unless I really loved it and the foods already. A book on basic nutrition for your situation can be very beneficial. Flexibility in a diet so you don't feel deprived is key to long term success.0 -
Also just to point out I have been on the MFP site for a couple of weeks now and they are really helpful, and to date no-one has provided any documented studies or evidence that the primal blue print does not reduce body fat or maintain lean mass - so that would suggest it works.
Whether any diet reduces body fat depends on a calorie deficit. How much lean mass you maintain as you lose has more to do with what you do, than what you eat.
The problem most people have with Paleo and Primal is not that they don't work, it's that they are so restrictive that few people stick to them for long.
And for the OP, getting the high fiber she needs could be a problem on a low carb, high fat diet. Fiber is a carb.0 -
"Well, you've only kind of alluded to what may be wrong with you, based on certain foods. Have you been tested for food allergies or gluten intolerance?"
I am in the process of getting tested. All of this has really just started to surface in the last 6 months. I used to be able to eat whatever I wanted, no problem (besides weight gain, of course). I thought that most-if not all- of the problems I was having when I was pregnant would go away after I had my daughter, but they seem to be here to stay. I haven't really done too much up to this point to figure out what the cause was because I figured it would all go away eventually. I thought it could have just been my body getting back to normal, but now we are seeing that it's not the case. This **** is here to stay!0 -
Neither. Fad diets are unsustainable. You can stick with it for a short time and see significant weight loss but when and I do mean when someone stops following the diet all the weight comes back on.
The only sustainable way is to count all your calories eaten and calories burned and be honest with yourself in doing so.
I disagree, not controlling what foods you consume and therefore not controlling your bodies hormonal responses to the food is a really tough way of dieting and probably more unsustainable than a lot of other ways.
Have you eaten for a prolonged period of time (more than 4 weeks) a paleo or south beach diet style of eating?
Why do you think so many dieters don't sustain their diets eating this way - constantly battling with controlling their craving!!!
Anyway get back to me on why the other diets didn't work for you!0 -
Also just to point out I have been on the MFP site for a couple of weeks now and they are really helpful, and to date no-one has provided any documented studies or evidence that the primal blue print does not reduce body fat or maintain lean mass - so that would suggest it works.
Whether any diet reduces body fat depends on a calorie deficit. How much lean mass you maintain as you lose has more to do with what you do, than what you eat.
The problem most people have with Paleo and Primal is not that they don't work, it's that they are so restrictive that few people stick to them for long.
And for the OP, getting the high fiber she needs could be a problem on a low carb, high fat diet. Fiber is a carb.
As I've posted above - I think it's the other way round, I have eaten both styles (have you?) so I am speaking from personal experience as opposed to assumption.0 -
I'd suggest you eat at a calorie deficit, make sure you get plenty of protein (sea food an ideal source):
After that, I'd follow a diet along the following...No bread, rice, pasta, and as few gluten products as possible.
-High in fiber (I have severe colon issues following childbirth)
-I love seafood- and I live in Louisiana, so I have access to a variety of fresh seafood.
-Low sugar- still a little fuzzy on what fruits constitute as "low in sugar" and would be the best for me digestively
There is no need to copy some fad.
I would agree with the above about trying to find a specific problem.
This is the exact advice you should follow.
^^yep.
Find out what foods you need to avoid...and avoid them. Otherwise, eat to a reasonable caloric deficit, set your macros that would be appropriate to you, and eat a balanced diet comprising of foods you can eat to achieve that.0 -
Ok. Well good luck. I hope you find what works. I guess then, for me, it would be easy to stop eating all that stuff.
Have you been tested? I tend to distrust the medical community when it comes to this. They tend to say stop eating 90% of all food groups and see if that works. I'm exaggerating to make a point about how I detest their process.
When you're all done, you don't really know what was the cause, you think it's bread, and pasta, and rice, and red meat , and, ..., and..., and, when really, it's a small part of some of those foods that you need to eliminate, not the entire macronutrient class of foods. But, I understand that trial and error is painful and listen to the professionals is a good move right now.
Macronutrients are not a "class of foods"
I'd suggest that overtime, you get more specific testing and force them to exactly tell you what is causing your problem. Not a general description of carbs and red meat, but get down to the specific process that occurs when you consume a type of food and why that happens.
You obviously have no idea how expensive it is to determine the mechanism of action for multiple biological processes that contribute to a constellation of symptoms. No insurance plan would ever cover it. Those diagnostic tools likely don't even exist, since you cannot eliminate confounding variables. That is why we use trial and error. It's safe and inexpensive.You may not really have to restrict your diet as much as you think. In the end, it's your life. I wouldn't settle on such wide-sweeping advice, unless I was convinced it's true.
But that isn't how this process works, and clinicians know that. An elimination diet plan is an effective means of identifying problem foods. You eliminate most, and add things back one at a time over a period of weeks while using a food journal to track symptoms and foods. Her doctor is giving her sound advice.One large issue we have going on right now is a doctor tells a patient to cut carbs, stop eating gluten, and don't eat sugar. The patient does that and feels better. But, no one really knows what the problem was. Yes, all that solved it, but which specific element was causing an issue? What is the issue? The answer is no one knows. It is like your car breaks down. So, the mechanic says he will replace the engine. So, the car is fixed with the new engine, but no one knows what was wrong with the old engine and did it even need to be replaced? It's a ridiculous way to practice medicine.
:noway:
Holy crap, this is amazing.0 -
Ok. Well good luck. I hope you find what works. I guess then, for me, it would be easy to stop eating all that stuff.
Have you been tested? I tend to distrust the medical community when it comes to this. They tend to say stop eating 90% of all food groups and see if that works. I'm exaggerating to make a point about how I detest their process.
When you're all done, you don't really know what was the cause, you think it's bread, and pasta, and rice, and red meat , and, ..., and..., and, when really, it's a small part of some of those foods that you need to eliminate, not the entire macronutrient class of foods. But, I understand that trial and error is painful and listen to the professionals is a good move right now.
Macronutrients are not a "class of foods"
I'd suggest that overtime, you get more specific testing and force them to exactly tell you what is causing your problem. Not a general description of carbs and red meat, but get down to the specific process that occurs when you consume a type of food and why that happens.
You obviously have no idea how expensive it is to determine the mechanism of action for multiple biological processes that contribute to a constellation of symptoms. No insurance plan would ever cover it. Those diagnostic tools likely don't even exist, since you cannot eliminate confounding variables. That is why we use trial and error. It's safe and inexpensive.You may not really have to restrict your diet as much as you think. In the end, it's your life. I wouldn't settle on such wide-sweeping advice, unless I was convinced it's true.
But that isn't how this process works, and clinicians know that. An elimination diet plan is an effective means of identifying problem foods. You eliminate most, and add things back one at a time over a period of weeks while using a food journal to track symptoms and foods. Her doctor is giving her sound advice.One large issue we have going on right now is a doctor tells a patient to cut carbs, stop eating gluten, and don't eat sugar. The patient does that and feels better. But, no one really knows what the problem was. Yes, all that solved it, but which specific element was causing an issue? What is the issue? The answer is no one knows. It is like your car breaks down. So, the mechanic says he will replace the engine. So, the car is fixed with the new engine, but no one knows what was wrong with the old engine and did it even need to be replaced? It's a ridiculous way to practice medicine.
:noway:
Holy crap, this is amazing.
Except macronutrients are the classes of chemical compounds we consume....so "food".0 -
I would only recommend low carb to someone with insulin resistance. Even then I wouldn't tell them to follow a confusing plan, like that of a commercial diet.0
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Except macronutrients are the classes of chemical compounds we consume....so "food".
A class of chemical compounds we consume? You're playing a little fast and loose with the concept of "food."0 -
Except macronutrients are the classes of chemical compounds we consume....so "food".
A class of chemical compounds we consume? You're playing a little fast and loose with the concept of "food."
Wow, it's like watching people doing chemistry wheelies (awesome).0 -
Except macronutrients are the classes of chemical compounds we consume....so "food".
A class of chemical compounds we consume? You're playing a little fast and loose with the concept of "food."
How so? Food is made of chemical compounds...so chemical compounds that we consume would be food. It's pretty simple really.0 -
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The point that eludes you guys is my point is when a doctor says stop eating all carbs and gluten, and it works, it really is not very helpful. So, my suggestion is for the OP to eventually work to learn the specific issue, rather than a large ridiculous belief that an entire macronutrient is 'bad for her'. It may not even be the case at all. It's what they call a false positive result. You think it's carbs and gluten, it might be neither, really.
And my point is that there is little utility to knowing WHY and that you would be the kind of patient that would go through any time of expense and misery and doctor shopping to know WHY...even though a simple solution resolves your issues. Knowing WHY isn't always possible, for a variety of reasons I've already stated. And you don't have to give up on a food forever. You have a false impression of the elimination diet. You slowly add suspect foods back into your diet after a period of abstinence, and track your symptoms.0 -
The point that eludes you guys is my point is when a doctor says stop eating all carbs and gluten, and it works, it really is not very helpful. So, my suggestion is for the OP to eventually work to learn the specific issue, rather than a large ridiculous belief that an entire macronutrient is 'bad for her'. It may not even be the case at all. It's what they call a false positive result. You think it's carbs and gluten, it might be neither, really.
And my point is that there is little utility to knowing WHY and that you would be the kind of patient that would go through any time of expense and misery and doctor shopping to know WHY...even though a simple solution resolves your issues. Knowing WHY isn't always possible, for a variety of reasons I've already stated. And you don't have to give up on a food forever. You have a false impression of the elimination diet. You slowly add suspect foods back into your diet after a period of abstinence, and track your symptoms.
+10 -
I have done both Paleo and South Beach. I found Paleo easier for me to stick with than South Beach. I felt South Beach was more restricting. HOWEVER, not to discourage you, but both times I gained the weight back after I started eating normal again. If you can live forever without eating breads, crackers, dairy, grains, etc then you will do well but I couldn't keep up the restrictions long term. What has really worked for me and has helped me keep the weight off for good was eating my favorite foods but keeping it within my calorie limit. That's why I love tracking on MFP!
You can definitely incorporate parts of Paleo like cutting down on the grains, dairy, etc....eating more protein, fruit and veggies....but I personally feel that completely cutting those things out will just sabotage you in the end.
Sorry, don't mean you discourage you....just giving me honest opinion that MAYBE will help?!?
Best wishes!0 -
First off, don't listen to a single thing anyone here says... most are going to tell you Paleo is bad. Best bet - do your own research. Google is your friend. Read books, visit Paleo/South Beach diet specific message boards.
NEVER ask this question on the general forums. Ever.
PS, I eat Paleo/Primal. I love it. I'll never go back.0 -
Low-carb is a bad word on here...
If you are looking at is a lifestyle change, go for it. If you are looking at it as a diet, steer clear.
Noone knows your body better than yourself. Research what will work best for you and your ailments.0 -
Is South Beach really all that restrictive?
Only the first couple of weeks, to help break cravings for sugar and flour. No calorie counting. After that, you start adding back more vegetables, some fruits, some legumes, a few at a time, to see how you react to them. If a food makes you want to eat everything in sight, skip it for a while. Generally seems to be a pretty healthy way of eating.0 -
Also just to point out I have been on the MFP site for a couple of weeks now and they are really helpful, and to date no-one has provided any documented studies or evidence that the primal blue print does not reduce body fat or maintain lean mass - so that would suggest it works.
Whether any diet reduces body fat depends on a calorie deficit. How much lean mass you maintain as you lose has more to do with what you do, than what you eat.
The problem most people have with Paleo and Primal is not that they don't work, it's that they are so restrictive that few people stick to them for long.
And for the OP, getting the high fiber she needs could be a problem on a low carb, high fat diet. Fiber is a carb.
As I've posted above - I think it's the other way round, I have eaten both styles (have you?) so I am speaking from personal experience as opposed to assumption.
I have tried netiher, nor do I know to what assumptions you refer or what you believe is "the other way round".
The OP needs high fiber, along with other diet restrictions. She asked would Paleo or South Beach better meet those restrictions. Knowing the basic concepts of both diet, I suggested SB.
Rather than telling her what worked for me and assuming that meant it would also work for her, I answered her question. It will be difficult to eat the high fiber diet she seeks on a diet that forbids beans and whole grains.0 -
Loads of people DO NOT know what makes their bodies very well.
It's certainly taken me some time to work out everything that does and doesn't work - and I'm certainly not all the way there yet.
How could I know when my body is constantly changing anyway?0
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