Paleo or South Beach?
Replies
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I'm not sure why Paleo/Primal gets so much gruff on this site, but I love it and would highly recommend it to anyone.
I will give gruff to any diet that says beans are unhealthy. It's a lie.
Have you read any of the research on lectins? I believe that's the primary reason Paleo/Primal tries to avoid them.
I have. Have you seen all research showing legume rich diets like vegetarian and Mediterranean to be the healthiest?
Most heatlhy foods have toxins. Our bodies are well equipped to deal with them.
I think that's true, but I also believe based on findings I've read that some people have considerable reaction to lectins.
As for vegetarians being the healthiest, that's just crazy. Humans are not herbivores. We do not have the GI tract and related organs to consume an all vegetable diet -- we do not have the advantages that cows and koalas have in their GI tract. That's only been possible in modern times where food is in abundance and adequate protein sources have been mobilized from vegetarian sources.
So, yeah, anyone that thinks vegetarian diet is the healthiest, I'm going to strongly disagree with on a purely biological basis.
First of all, vegetarians do not eat an all vegetable diet.
Vegetarian diet is considered one of the healthiest because statistically people who eat vegetarian or Mediterranean diets are the healthiest people. This is proved true over and over, regardless of who is included (just in case you were about to say they were only compared to "SAD" eaters).
That may be one of the less educated applications of science ever.
All whales are mammals, thus all mammals must be whales. Talk about failing to understand correlation and causation.
Um, no.
I didn't say all vegetarians were healthy or that all diets were vegetarian or that "all" anything... But when you have milliions of people eating a food as a dietary staple and remaining healthy, that DOES mean the food is not "unhealthy."
Or it may show that those people have an adaptation that allows them to process that food particularly well. As I said before, I haven't seen Paleo/Primal say legumes are wholesale "unhealthy" -- but explain why lectins are issues for many people (and perhaps all people), legumes have a high number of them, so that's why they choose to avoid them.
If you want to get all hung up on the healthy vs unhealthy differentiation, go for it. But, that seems sort of silly to me.0 -
I'm not sure why Paleo/Primal gets so much gruff on this site, but I love it and would highly recommend it to anyone.
I will give gruff to any diet that says beans are unhealthy. It's a lie.
Have you read any of the research on lectins? I believe that's the primary reason Paleo/Primal tries to avoid them.
I have. Have you seen all research showing legume rich diets like vegetarian and Mediterranean to be the healthiest?
Most heatlhy foods have toxins. Our bodies are well equipped to deal with them.
I think that's true, but I also believe based on findings I've read that some people have considerable reaction to lectins.
As for vegetarians being the healthiest, that's just crazy. Humans are not herbivores. We do not have the GI tract and related organs to consume an all vegetable diet -- we do not have the advantages that cows and koalas have in their GI tract. That's only been possible in modern times where food is in abundance and adequate protein sources have been mobilized from vegetarian sources.
So, yeah, anyone that thinks vegetarian diet is the healthiest, I'm going to strongly disagree with on a purely biological basis.
First of all, vegetarians do not eat an all vegetable diet.
Vegetarian diet is considered one of the healthiest because statistically people who eat vegetarian or Mediterranean diets are the healthiest people. This is proved true over and over, regardless of who is included (just in case you were about to say they were only compared to "SAD" eaters).
That may be one of the less educated applications of science ever.
All whales are mammals, thus all mammals must be whales. Talk about failing to understand correlation and causation.
Um, no.
I didn't say all vegetarians were healthy or that all diets were vegetarian or that "all" anything... But when you have milliions of people eating a food as a dietary staple and remaining healthy, that DOES mean the food is not "unhealthy."
Or it may show that those people have an adaptation that allows them to process that food particularly well. As I said before, I haven't seen Paleo/Primal say legumes are wholesale "unhealthy" -- but explain why lectins are issues for many people (and perhaps all people), legumes have a high number of them, so that's why they choose to avoid them.
If you want to get all hung up on the healthy vs unhealthy differentiation, go for it. But, that seems sort of silly to me.
What "issues" do you believe all these heatlhy people who eat legumes regularly have specifically with legumes?0 -
OP, my husband has Crohn's disease, so I understand a bit about GI issues. For him, it's certain spices and certain vegetables that must be avoided, which is often the same with Colitis. I hope you find out what's wrong. It might be an endocannabinoid deficiency as well. Honestly, I would stick to a diet of soft, bland foods until you know for sure. Best of luck to you.0
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Thanks for the advice, everyone! Looks like I have some homework to do!
To be clear, neither of these fad diets has "exactly" the plan I am looking to follow- I need the high fiber that Paleo can't offer, and I can't eat the breads, pastas, etc. that South Beach starts introducing after a couple of weeks. I was on Weight Watchers before I got pregnant- and I LOVED it. I lost 25 lbs. and felt great- and I was still eating foods that I loved. I was lucky back then- had no digestive issues and could eat whatever I wanted and have a bowel movement 20 minutes later. Now, if I so much as LOOK at a piece of bread my body shuts down. Nothing is the same as it was before and I am MISERABLE. It isn't just the weight anymore.
Anyway, I will look into some of the websites and "clean eating" resources you guys suggested. I think this might be my best bet. Also- to the person who suggested a licensed dietician- thanks! I go to a colon hydrotherapist and she is also a licensed dietician. I actually texted her as soon as I saw your post;) (don't know why it didn't occur to me to just call her in the first place).
Thanks for the help yall!
What is a colon hydro-therapist!!?
I know a lot of Registered Dietitians ( i.e. they have a degree). Are you sure that your person is a dietitian not a nutritionist?
It's just what it sounds like, a person who uses water to cleanse the colon. It is intended for people whose colons are not functioning properly, and can prevent a blockage that would otherwise require surgery.0 -
The point that eludes you guys is my point is when a doctor says stop eating all carbs and gluten, and it works, it really is not very helpful. So, my suggestion is for the OP to eventually work to learn the specific issue, rather than a large ridiculous belief that an entire macronutrient is 'bad for her'. It may not even be the case at all. It's what they call a false positive result. You think it's carbs and gluten, it might be neither, really.
And my point is that there is little utility to knowing WHY and that you would be the kind of patient that would go through any time of expense and misery and doctor shopping to know WHY...even though a simple solution resolves your issues. Knowing WHY isn't always possible, for a variety of reasons I've already stated. And you don't have to give up on a food forever. You have a false impression of the elimination diet. You slowly add suspect foods back into your diet after a period of abstinence, and track your symptoms.
That's what I was saying. Thanks for reiterating it.
Except for the "not knowing why part". That's not a smart way to approach eliminating a bunch of stuff, including an entire macro-nutrient, from your diet. But, do whatever you want. i'm tired of arguing with people that are close-minded and can't see past their forehead. Data is data. You can do research, learn, and explore. you don't have to spend thousands at a doctors office. in fact, I advocate not doing that, because doctors tend to be kind of campy with their silly watered-down pop-science advice.
^^ This too. A lot of general medicine docs are *CLUELESS* about GI issues. I'm wondering about the advice for a high fiber diet for someone with colon problems. :huh: :ohwell:0 -
I'm not sure why Paleo/Primal gets so much gruff on this site, but I love it and would highly recommend it to anyone.
I will give gruff to any diet that says beans are unhealthy. It's a lie.
Have you read any of the research on lectins? I believe that's the primary reason Paleo/Primal tries to avoid them.
I have. Have you seen all research showing legume rich diets like vegetarian and Mediterranean to be the healthiest?
Most heatlhy foods have toxins. Our bodies are well equipped to deal with them.
I think that's true, but I also believe based on findings I've read that some people have considerable reaction to lectins.
As for vegetarians being the healthiest, that's just crazy. Humans are not herbivores. We do not have the GI tract and related organs to consume an all vegetable diet -- *we do not have the advantages that cows and koalas have in their GI tract.* That's only been possible in modern times where food is in abundance and adequate protein sources have been mobilized from vegetarian sources.
So, yeah, anyone that thinks vegetarian diet is the healthiest, I'm going to strongly disagree with on a purely biological basis.
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.0 -
The point that eludes you guys is my point is when a doctor says stop eating all carbs and gluten, and it works, it really is not very helpful. So, my suggestion is for the OP to eventually work to learn the specific issue, rather than a large ridiculous belief that an entire macronutrient is 'bad for her'. It may not even be the case at all. It's what they call a false positive result. You think it's carbs and gluten, it might be neither, really.
And my point is that there is little utility to knowing WHY and that you would be the kind of patient that would go through any time of expense and misery and doctor shopping to know WHY...even though a simple solution resolves your issues. Knowing WHY isn't always possible, for a variety of reasons I've already stated. And you don't have to give up on a food forever. You have a false impression of the elimination diet. You slowly add suspect foods back into your diet after a period of abstinence, and track your symptoms.
That's what I was saying. Thanks for reiterating it.
Except for the "not knowing why part". That's not a smart way to approach eliminating a bunch of stuff, including an entire macro-nutrient, from your diet. But, do whatever you want. i'm tired of arguing with people that are close-minded and can't see past their forehead. Data is data. You can do research, learn, and explore. you don't have to spend thousands at a doctors office. in fact, I advocate not doing that, because doctors tend to be kind of campy with their silly watered-down pop-science advice.
^^ This too. A lot of general medicine docs are *CLUELESS* about GI issues. I'm wondering about the advice for a high fiber diet for someone with colon problems. :huh: :ohwell:
Oh, I missed the colon problems, but that could explain the low-fat recommendation.0 -
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.
So you think humans are herbivores?0 -
Thanks for the advice, everyone! Looks like I have some homework to do!
To be clear, neither of these fad diets has "exactly" the plan I am looking to follow- I need the high fiber that Paleo can't offer, and I can't eat the breads, pastas, etc. that South Beach starts introducing after a couple of weeks. I was on Weight Watchers before I got pregnant- and I LOVED it. I lost 25 lbs. and felt great- and I was still eating foods that I loved. I was lucky back then- had no digestive issues and could eat whatever I wanted and have a bowel movement 20 minutes later. Now, if I so much as LOOK at a piece of bread my body shuts down. Nothing is the same as it was before and I am MISERABLE. It isn't just the weight anymore.
Anyway, I will look into some of the websites and "clean eating" resources you guys suggested. I think this might be my best bet. Also- to the person who suggested a licensed dietician- thanks! I go to a colon hydrotherapist and she is also a licensed dietician. I actually texted her as soon as I saw your post;) (don't know why it didn't occur to me to just call her in the first place).
Thanks for the help yall!
What is a colon hydro-therapist!!?
I know a lot of Registered Dietitians ( i.e. they have a degree). Are you sure that your person is a dietitian not a nutritionist?
It's just what it sounds like, a person who uses water to cleanse the colon. It is intended for people whose colons are not functioning properly, and can prevent a blockage that would otherwise require surgery.
According to a link posted on another thread, apparently anyone can set up shop as a colon hydro therapist, no licensing required.
Kind of scary IMO.0 -
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.
So you think humans are herbivores?
Do you think vegans don't exist?0 -
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.
So you think humans are herbivores?
I think you're fond of oversimplifying things. And I think I'm done here.0 -
If you decide to go Paleo check out nomnompaleo.com There is a wealth of information, recipes, tips, etc. available. It's pretty restrictive, but if you must restrict these foods anyway for health reasons, it's worth trying. It's certainly not as restrictive as the Atkins diet, and allows for enough green food to (possibly) help your colon issues.0
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Don't know if any one has mentioned it, but SB doctor/author Dr. Agatston has a SB book for those with gluten issues as well. That, then, changes phase 2 and 3 and may be something you might want to look into.0
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That would depend on where you are. That is NOT the case where I am. There are licensing rules.Thanks for the advice, everyone! Looks like I have some homework to do!
To be clear, neither of these fad diets has "exactly" the plan I am looking to follow- I need the high fiber that Paleo can't offer, and I can't eat the breads, pastas, etc. that South Beach starts introducing after a couple of weeks. I was on Weight Watchers before I got pregnant- and I LOVED it. I lost 25 lbs. and felt great- and I was still eating foods that I loved. I was lucky back then- had no digestive issues and could eat whatever I wanted and have a bowel movement 20 minutes later. Now, if I so much as LOOK at a piece of bread my body shuts down. Nothing is the same as it was before and I am MISERABLE. It isn't just the weight anymore.
Anyway, I will look into some of the websites and "clean eating" resources you guys suggested. I think this might be my best bet. Also- to the person who suggested a licensed dietician- thanks! I go to a colon hydrotherapist and she is also a licensed dietician. I actually texted her as soon as I saw your post;) (don't know why it didn't occur to me to just call her in the first place).
Thanks for the help yall!
What is a colon hydro-therapist!!?
I know a lot of Registered Dietitians ( i.e. they have a degree). Are you sure that your person is a dietitian not a nutritionist?
It's just what it sounds like, a person who uses water to cleanse the colon. It is intended for people whose colons are not functioning properly, and can prevent a blockage that would otherwise require surgery.
According to a link posted on another thread, apparently anyone can set up shop as a colon hydro therapist, no licensing required.
Kind of scary IMO.0 -
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.
So you think humans are herbivores?
Do you think vegans don't exist?
You really don't understand the difference? I'm sure there is someone out there that eats just bolonge and pixy stix, but I wouldn't extrapolate that to mean all humans eat bologne and pixy stix.
Scientifically, homosapiens are omnivores, regardless of whether some choose to eat both meat and plant life or not. Talk about a strawman.0 -
I like the Paleo diet. It was best for me because I wanted to get away from any processed foods rather than just counting calories or watching my portions. Other diets could work well for you, but I really like the cleanliness of the Paleo method. The idea of what your body was meant to consume and process. For me the affects were great... the no dairy was hard, but honestly, cutting that out really helped me... I seemed less moody, and my skin and hair changed for the better. Although my cheat is putting a little creamer in my coffee... I just can't drink coffee straight. lol
Also, I know the cross-fit method of working out also ties in to the paleo method. I know... Cross-fit seems cult-ish, I don't attend the classes, but some of the movements do make sense. They are work out that force you to use practical movements that your body was built/meant to do along with using your own body weight.
I would suggest reading The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. Its great!
Good luck!0 -
The idea of what your body was meant to consume and process.
This "idea" is the problem many people have with the Paleo Diet. It's nonsense.0 -
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.
So you think humans are herbivores?
Do you think vegans don't exist?
You really don't understand the difference? I'm sure there is someone out there that eats just bolonge and pixy stix, but I wouldn't extrapolate that to mean all humans eat bologne and pixy stix.
Scientifically, homosapiens are omnivores, regardless of whether some choose to eat both meat and plant life or not. Talk about a strawman.
Plant-based diets do not mean "plants only". Strawman refers to an argument. I asked a question.
Saying something like "some humans have trouble digesting grains so humans were not meant or designed to eat grains" would be a strawman argument.
I think you mean that humans are biologically omnivores, which is correct, though this does not mean that we must eat meat. It means that, in general, we can digest meat if we eat it.0 -
The point that eludes you guys is my point is when a doctor says stop eating all carbs and gluten, and it works, it really is not very helpful. So, my suggestion is for the OP to eventually work to learn the specific issue, rather than a large ridiculous belief that an entire macronutrient is 'bad for her'. It may not even be the case at all. It's what they call a false positive result. You think it's carbs and gluten, it might be neither, really.
And my point is that there is little utility to knowing WHY and that you would be the kind of patient that would go through any time of expense and misery and doctor shopping to know WHY...even though a simple solution resolves your issues. Knowing WHY isn't always possible, for a variety of reasons I've already stated. And you don't have to give up on a food forever. You have a false impression of the elimination diet. You slowly add suspect foods back into your diet after a period of abstinence, and track your symptoms.
That's what I was saying. Thanks for reiterating it.
Except for the "not knowing why part". That's not a smart way to approach eliminating a bunch of stuff, including an entire macro-nutrient, from your diet. But, do whatever you want. i'm tired of arguing with people that are close-minded and can't see past their forehead. Data is data. You can do research, learn, and explore. you don't have to spend thousands at a doctors office. in fact, I advocate not doing that, because doctors tend to be kind of campy with their silly watered-down pop-science advice.
^^ This too. A lot of general medicine docs are *CLUELESS* about GI issues. I'm wondering about the advice for a high fiber diet for someone with colon problems. :huh: :ohwell:
Oh, I missed the colon problems, but that could explain the low-fat recommendation.
Right, and the OP's doctor gave advice that is the opposite of what my husband's long-time GI specialist has told him.0 -
Thanks for the advice, everyone! Looks like I have some homework to do!
To be clear, neither of these fad diets has "exactly" the plan I am looking to follow- I need the high fiber that Paleo can't offer, and I can't eat the breads, pastas, etc. that South Beach starts introducing after a couple of weeks. I was on Weight Watchers before I got pregnant- and I LOVED it. I lost 25 lbs. and felt great- and I was still eating foods that I loved. I was lucky back then- had no digestive issues and could eat whatever I wanted and have a bowel movement 20 minutes later. Now, if I so much as LOOK at a piece of bread my body shuts down. Nothing is the same as it was before and I am MISERABLE. It isn't just the weight anymore.
Anyway, I will look into some of the websites and "clean eating" resources you guys suggested. I think this might be my best bet. Also- to the person who suggested a licensed dietician- thanks! I go to a colon hydrotherapist and she is also a licensed dietician. I actually texted her as soon as I saw your post;) (don't know why it didn't occur to me to just call her in the first place).
Thanks for the help yall!
What is a colon hydro-therapist!!?
I know a lot of Registered Dietitians ( i.e. they have a degree). Are you sure that your person is a dietitian not a nutritionist?
It's just what it sounds like, a person who uses water to cleanse the colon. It is intended for people whose colons are not functioning properly, and can prevent a blockage that would otherwise require surgery.
According to a link posted on another thread, apparently anyone can set up shop as a colon hydro therapist, no licensing required.
Kind of scary IMO.
That probably depends on the state, but honestly, it's not like brain surgery or anything. IMO, it's not something that really needs licensing. It's not much different than taking the temperature of an infant, which is why a "therapist" can do it. I'm a little more concerned about these people forced to insert their own catheters. I see these commercials on TV about it, and I'm like, really?0 -
If you decide to go Paleo check out nomnompaleo.com There is a wealth of information, recipes, tips, etc. available. It's pretty restrictive, but if you must restrict these foods anyway for health reasons, it's worth trying. It's certainly not as restrictive as the Atkins diet, and allows for enough green food to (possibly) help your colon issues.
I think Atkins is much less restrictive because grains eventually get added back into the diet, slowly.0 -
I totally agree0
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The point that eludes you guys is my point is when a doctor says stop eating all carbs and gluten, and it works, it really is not very helpful. So, my suggestion is for the OP to eventually work to learn the specific issue, rather than a large ridiculous belief that an entire macronutrient is 'bad for her'. It may not even be the case at all. It's what they call a false positive result. You think it's carbs and gluten, it might be neither, really.
And my point is that there is little utility to knowing WHY and that you would be the kind of patient that would go through any time of expense and misery and doctor shopping to know WHY...even though a simple solution resolves your issues. Knowing WHY isn't always possible, for a variety of reasons I've already stated. And you don't have to give up on a food forever. You have a false impression of the elimination diet. You slowly add suspect foods back into your diet after a period of abstinence, and track your symptoms.
That's what I was saying. Thanks for reiterating it.
Except for the "not knowing why part". That's not a smart way to approach eliminating a bunch of stuff, including an entire macro-nutrient, from your diet. But, do whatever you want. i'm tired of arguing with people that are close-minded and can't see past their forehead. Data is data. You can do research, learn, and explore. you don't have to spend thousands at a doctors office. in fact, I advocate not doing that, because doctors tend to be kind of campy with their silly watered-down pop-science advice.
^^ This too. A lot of general medicine docs are *CLUELESS* about GI issues. I'm wondering about the advice for a high fiber diet for someone with colon problems. :huh: :ohwell:
Oh, I missed the colon problems, but that could explain the low-fat recommendation.
Right, and the OP's doctor gave advice that is the opposite of what my husband's long-time GI specialist has told him.
The advice wouldn't be the same for all GI or colon problems, but I would definitely want to see a GI doc if I had colon problems.0 -
Neither. They are stupid diets that don't last and the incredibly restrictive nature of them sets you up to fail before you even start. Use MFP how it is intended and eat at a calorie deficit.
That's it. Losing weight is easy. Just eat at a deficit. There is no reason to deprive yourself of anything.
QFT.
It's about moderation not deprivation. There are no good or bad foods, just bad eating habits.0 -
I didn't read all of the replies, but I recommend a calorie deficit.0
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Neither. They are stupid diets that don't last and the incredibly restrictive nature of them sets you up to fail before you even start. Use MFP how it is intended and eat at a calorie deficit.
That's it. Losing weight is easy. Just eat at a deficit. There is no reason to deprive yourself of anything.
I agree! Psychologically, we set ourselves up to fail with restrictive diets. I have a lot of food allergies and health issue, so I eat close to Paleo, but that's a goal, not a rule.0 -
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.
So you think humans are herbivores?
Do you think vegans don't exist?
I know vegans exist, i just can't wrap my head around why they exist? what's life without meat?0 -
Hello all!
I am currently in my first week of my weight loss journey and am trying to figure out what diet plan will work best for me. I have 100 lbs. to lose and am looking to make a lifestyle change in the way I eat. Originally, my doctor recommended the South Beach diet. However, I have been hearing great things regarding Paleo and am not quite sure what direction I want to go in.
Right now I am trying to get together a good menu for the next couple of weeks- so I am a clean slate! I can pretty much go in either direction. Here are some of the things I need in whatever diet I choose:
-No bread, rice, pasta, and as few gluten products as possible.
-High in fiber (I have severe colon issues following childbirth)
-I love seafood- and I live in Louisiana, so I have access to a variety of fresh seafood.
-Low sugar- still a little fuzzy on what fruits constitute as "low in sugar" and would be the best for me digestively
I am also hoping that, along with losing weight, this new lifestyle change will result in better digestive health for me. I am looking for a COMPLETE overhaul of my colon.
So, which plan would you recommend? Paleo or South Beach? Thanks!
Have they already taken your blood to check for your sensitivities or problems? Have they had you do a proper elimination diet to help?
The reason I am asking is that if you do have a gluten sensitivity or reaction (possibly triggered by pregnancy?), you would need to avoid it completely to really evaluate whether or not you are sensitive, but they can only test your blood for it while you are still eating gluten.
Personally, I would do a full elimination diet with my doctor's monitoring (keeping a thorough symptom diary) and add things back one or two weeks at a time rather than do some "kind of" restrictions. It sounds like it could prolong you knowing the actual cause.
*Edit to add that you would be able to find sample menus for elimination diets and while life will not be interesting, you'll know what to do.0 -
Your purely biological basis is not based in biology. Sorry.
We lack the GI necessary to process large volumes of insoluble fiber. That doesn't mean we can't achieve optimal health on a plant-based diet. In fact, the availability and low cost of meat in America is very new and region-specific.
So you think humans are herbivores?
Do you think vegans don't exist?
I know vegans exist, i just can't wrap my head around why they exist? what's life without meat?
I imagine it's a life much like any other life, except for meal time.0 -
Can you tell me how you did your carb cycle?0
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