We don't know what constitutes a true paleo diet!
Replies
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maybe I'm just suspicious when Steve0 comments....:laugh:0
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it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
No, it isn't based on solid evolutionary science. No "may" needed. But the nutritional science seems to stem from the basic principle that we did not evolve to eat certain foods: Wheat is harmful because early humans did not eat grain (although they did). The science is then cherry picked to find something harmful in wheat (ignoring all data that shows wheat really isn't harmful). Ergo, all humans should not eat wheat (although most can, and do, with no problems). It's not science because you start out trying to prove your hypothesis, not disproving it.
If you start with a flawed premise, chances are very good you will end up with a flawed conclusion. Garbage in, garbage out.0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
I don't do paleo dieting.
However:
Cro-Magnons (if you mean the first Homo sapiens sapiens people in Europe, it's not a scientific term, but that's who it's usually used to refer to) date back to about 40,000 years ago. Homo sapiens sapiens, our subspecies (some use the term Cro-Magnon to refer to our entire subspecies) dates back 100,000 years ago.
Homo sapiens idaltu dates back to about 160,000 years ago. They ate hippos.
As for analysis of the diets of people who lived earlier than Otzi, there is a lot of sources for this: 1. the bones found associated with palaeolithic people, e.g. animal bones with cut marks on them from stone tools. This is evidence as to which species of animals they ate. (this is how we know Homo sapiens idaltu ate hippos, and scientists have a very good idea what species of animals were eaten by which species of humans and whether they were hunted or scavenged) - only humans can make stone tools therefore stone tool marks on bones = humans ate this. 2. there is a lot of recent research looking at microscopic food particles from teeth, this, for example, has told scientists that neanderthals not only ate various different plants, but that they cooked them too. 3. analysis of the molecular structure of bones and teeth tells scientists about the diet as well, such as whether the protein they ate came from meat, fish or plants.
The above is real science and can be found in various journals of palaeoanthropology such as the Journal of Human Evolution
None of it resemble the diet of paleo gurus though. I agree with you that the paleo diet isn't based on science... .I'm trying to improve people's general knowledge of palaeoanthropology.
I'm not sure I follow your point, the article I have posted (have you read it yet) does not dispute that as we evolved we ate a very, very wide and varied range of animals and plants.
The diet is basing its self on not eating the foods that we did not have access or since there inclusion into our food chain have not yet become completely adapted at digesting (such as grain) dairy is questionable as it would seem a vast amount of us have become efficient at processing this (which is why it is generally included in the recommended foods- I say recommended as again I must reiterate, you do not get chastised for eating foods you shouldn't, you just get educated in what those foods will do 'or not do' for you).
It's does however suggest that you do not eat any food which is nutritionally deficient compared to better choice foods. It doesn't stop you eating them if you what, it just explains the cost (in reduction of speed in reaching your goals, or possible health implications).
If your someone who cannot live without your Big Mac everyday, that's fine as I put on my original post this diet is not for everyone. Hell I didn't even claim it was the best diet in the world (for me it is - for others maybe not). But the fact is any diet where your goal is either weight loss, health (or ideally both), that diet will require you making sacrifices, be it food choice, having to stop eating when you're still hungry - it's still a sacrifice. What I have personally found with this diet is the fact I no longer crave the foods it's not advisable for ME to eat, then the sacrifice does not seem so great.
I see now that the real hang up for you guys is the incorrect naming of the diet ( has it stole a someone else's lime light - probably) all I can do is apologise and offer a big hug to anyone who needs it.
So on with your lives people. Probably best at this stage we agree to disagree and leave as friends????0 -
Very tenuous, all proven science started as belief or theory.
The word you are looking for here is hypothesis. You may believe your hypothesis is correct, but you won't know until you test it. Get enough experimental data together so it forms a cohesive picture, and then you have a theory.
But there's that damn semantics again!
Sure, and if we were writing a paper on it in a scientific forum, it would be appropriate. But do you think the average joe on this site (or in America at large) really needs to know the difference between hypothesis and theory? Let alone to discuss dietary choices or the Paleo/Primal diet? Really?
yes they do, which is why they teach the scientific method in high school. Lack of understanding about science and the scientific method leads to people falling for all the faddy diets and other pseudoscience that goes around. Like people who refuse to vaccinate their kids, or people who think that grain is the cause of obesity....
QFT not to mention the fact that this site doesn't represent America but people all over the world, including a number of principal participants in this thread.
Bugger all to do with the topic but irritating none the less0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.0 -
It effects some people but that apparently translates to everyone shouldn't consume them. No.True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.0 -
But the fact is any diet where your goal is either weight loss, health (or ideally both), that diet will require you making sacrifices, be it food choice, having to stop eating when you're still hungry - it's still a sacrifice
But...I don't stop eating when I'm still hungry when I'm losing weight. I eat until I'm satiated (not completely full, but not hungry). I'm not hungry between meals. I'm VERY hungry before meals...do not stand between me and the food.
I make adult choices to eat a balanced diet of foods that I enjoy eating. (Yum, brocolli is my favorite). I make sure I eat some sort of dried bean, a leafy vegetable (besides lettuce), a root vegetable (besides potato), and make sure I incorporate fruit (not just admire it) at least every other day. That way I hit all my micronutrients. Other than that, I eat whatever I want. I generally get enough protein and find that I split the rest of my calories between carbs and fat pretty evenly without really worrying about it. That's really good enough for my goals. And there isn't any sacrifice. Yeah, I enjoy a Quarter Pounder on occasion. I love sushi. I'm addicted to arugula. And I'm SO looking forward to ripe tomatoes in the summer. What's wrong with any of that?
The choice of simply limiting the quantities of what we eat and making sure we get our micronutrients depends on what our goals are, but the majority of people on this site want to lose a few pounds and get healthier, and its pretty good for that. People do need to be mindful and make responsible choices about what they choose to eat...and psuedoscience that tells them that they were not "evolved" to eat grain or dairy isn't going to help them do that.0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
So, what you are saying is that there is evidence that a subset of homo sapiens sapiens has shown an adapation to their diets in under 10,000 years???
Also, I don't have celiac. My mom does. I've been tested. I'm fine eating grains.0 -
It effects some people but that apparently translates to everyone shouldn't consume them. No.True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
and the whole point is that it IS difficult for all people to digest and metabolize wheat and dairy, though the degree of that difficulty varies. Come on you know you've heard the stories of people who didn't think they had a sensitivity to gluten because the way they felt was just.... the way they'd felt their whole life, and they didn't have any other frame of reference. They cut out gluten and suddenly XYZ fill in the blank they have so much more energy blah blah blah.
and yep, anecdotes are anecdotes, but the increase in celiac disease due to genetic modifications of wheat is a thing, and it's going to keep being a thing. gluten free isn't going away any time soon.0 -
I think everyone needs to find what works best for them, what kinds of foods they feel the best on. For me I undoubtedly feel the best eating primal (I don't have any issues with dairy) there is no contest there. Does that mean everyone else will feel great eating this way? No. But you never know until you try. At one point I thought a vegetarian diet was healthiest, but I felt awful eating that way so it wasn't for me.But the fact is any diet where your goal is either weight loss, health (or ideally both), that diet will require you making sacrifices, be it food choice, having to stop eating when you're still hungry - it's still a sacrifice
But...I don't stop eating when I'm still hungry when I'm losing weight. I eat until I'm satiated (not completely full, but not hungry). I'm not hungry between meals. I'm VERY hungry before meals...do not stand between me and the food.
I make adult choices to eat a balanced diet of foods that I enjoy eating. (Yum, brocolli is my favorite). I make sure I eat some sort of dried bean, a leafy vegetable (besides lettuce), a root vegetable (besides potato), and make sure I incorporate fruit (not just admire it) at least every other day. That way I hit all my micronutrients. Other than that, I eat whatever I want. I generally get enough protein and find that I split the rest of my calories between carbs and fat pretty evenly without really worrying about it. That's really good enough for my goals. And there isn't any sacrifice. Yeah, I enjoy a Quarter Pounder on occasion. I love sushi. I'm addicted to arugula. And I'm SO looking forward to ripe tomatoes in the summer. What's wrong with any of that?
The choice of simply limiting the quantities of what we eat and making sure we get our micronutrients depends on what our goals are, but the majority of people on this site want to lose a few pounds and get healthier, and its pretty good for that. People do need to be mindful and make responsible choices about what they choose to eat...and psuedoscience that tells them that they were not "evolved" to eat grain or dairy isn't going to help them do that.0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
So, what you are saying is that there is evidence that a subset of homo sapiens sapiens has shown an adapation to their diets in under 10,000 years???
Also, I don't have celiac. My mom does. I've been tested. I'm fine eating grains.
then eat grains. I don't care either way. I eat them myself. doesn't mean I don't understand why people choose not to.
and yes to your first question, but not in the last 40 years during the genetic modification of wheat which is why we've seen a spike in celiac. our bodies can't keep up with genetic modifications that create grains that are even more difficult to digest.0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
Pffttt... I don't know where you live, but "race" isn't so clear cut where I live.
Maybe YOUR body "appreciates a break" but my body ("white" by appearance but not necessarily by heritage, btw) hasn't needed a break in 45 years.
Please stop the fear mongering.0 -
How much has celiac disease increased over the last 30years? and what % of the population now have documented celiac disease? As far as being symptomatic well, lets just say youtube has contributed far more to celiac disease than gluten has, it's making a lot of money for the few. I'm not saying that removing wheat doesn't help people, I'm sure refocusing on diet and a healthy lifestyle just might have something to do with it. Google "blue zone" the healthiest and oldest people on the planet consume a diet that contain wheat and dairy......
It effects some people but that apparently translates to everyone shouldn't consume them. No.True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
and the whole point is that it IS difficult for all people to digest and metabolize wheat and dairy, though the degree of that difficulty varies. Come on you know you've heard the stories of people who didn't think they had a sensitivity to gluten because the way they felt was just.... the way they'd felt their whole life, and they didn't have any other frame of reference. They cut out gluten and suddenly XYZ fill in the blank they have so much more energy blah blah blah.
and yep, anecdotes are anecdotes, but the increase in celiac disease due to genetic modifications of wheat is a thing, and it's going to keep being a thing. gluten free isn't going away any time soon.0 -
The problem I have with this diet is that it seems unreasonably restrictive and difficult to stick with. I have lost count of the Facebook friends who have posted "going paleo!" and then posted about being at Taco Bell, McDonalds, etc. a week later because they just couldn't stick with it. It is quite humorous. It makes more sense to me to just eat things in moderation.0
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True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
So, what you are saying is that there is evidence that a subset of homo sapiens sapiens has shown an adapation to their diets in under 10,000 years???
Also, I don't have celiac. My mom does. I've been tested. I'm fine eating grains.
then eat grains. I don't care either way. I eat them myself. doesn't mean I don't understand why people choose not to.
and yes to your first question, but not in the last 40 years during the genetic modification of wheat which is why we've seen a spike in celiac. our bodies can't keep up with genetic modifications that create grains that are even more difficult to digest.
Lol. We've been genetically modifying grain since we invented agriculture. And probably before that.
Also, if my mom has not had time to adapt to gluten...but I have...what is that? Like a one generation evolutionary leap?0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
So, what you are saying is that there is evidence that a subset of homo sapiens sapiens has shown an adapation to their diets in under 10,000 years???
Also, I don't have celiac. My mom does. I've been tested. I'm fine eating grains.
then eat grains. I don't care either way. I eat them myself. doesn't mean I don't understand why people choose not to.
and yes to your first question, but not in the last 40 years during the genetic modification of wheat which is why we've seen a spike in celiac. our bodies can't keep up with genetic modifications that create grains that are even more difficult to digest.
Lol. We've been genetically modifying grain since we invented agriculture. And probably before that.
Also, if my mom has not had time to adapt to gluten...but I have...what is that? Like a one generation evolutionary leap?
I don't quite think you understand how genetics works...0 -
Pffttt... I don't know where you live, but "race" isn't so clear cut where I live.
Maybe YOUR body "appreciates a break" but my body ("white" by appearance but not necessarily by heritage, btw) hasn't needed a break in 45 years.
Please stop the fear mongering.
You realize, of course, that you are my case in point?
Have you ever gone off grains to see what the difference is? If not, then how do you know your body hasn't needed a break?0 -
Just curious all you paleoers out there. How long have you been eating this way? I have a hard time believing that it's sustainable long term. Maybe because I live in the land of the mediterranian diet (Italy), which balances out carbs, proteins etc. etc., and pasta and pizza are king. Doing paleo here is almost impossible unless one is doing it for grave health reasons. However I'd like to hear how long you've been doing paleo--anyone for years?0
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How much has celiac disease increased over the last 30years? and what % of the population now have documented celiac disease? As far as being symptomatic well, lets just say youtube has contributed far more to celiac disease than gluten has, it's making a lot of money for the few. I'm not saying that removing wheat doesn't help people, I'm sure refocusing on diet and a healthy lifestyle just might have something to do with it. Google "blue zone" the healthiest and oldest people on the planet consume a diet that contain wheat and dairy......
IIRC celiac instances have shot up 400% over the last 50 or so years. A lot of that is detection, but not all of it.
As for the blue zone, bet those people also eat fermented foods daily like it's their job.
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You mean complaints of bloating and not feeling optimal, yeah I can see that would have increased.....what is the % of people that have documented celiac?How much has celiac disease increased over the last 30years? and what % of the population now have documented celiac disease? As far as being symptomatic well, lets just say youtube has contributed far more to celiac disease than gluten has, it's making a lot of money for the few. I'm not saying that removing wheat doesn't help people, I'm sure refocusing on diet and a healthy lifestyle just might have something to do with it. Google "blue zone" the healthiest and oldest people on the planet consume a diet that contain wheat and dairy......
IIRC celiac instances have shot up 400% over the last 50 or so years. A lot of that is detection, but not all of it.
As for the blue zone, bet those people also eat fermented foods daily like it's their job.
The Japanese like their fermented foods but I'm not sure how than translates into health, I seen some disturbing research, but most of the other zones don't consume much fermented foods. Basically it's about how you lead your life in all related aspects, just not diet for overall health and well being, the vast difference between the diets of these zones tells us we as humans are very adaptable and can thrive in just about any environment, our population is proof of that.0 -
You mean complaints of bloating and not feeling optimal, yeah I can see that would have increased.....what is the % of people that have documented celiac?How much has celiac disease increased over the last 30years? and what % of the population now have documented celiac disease? As far as being symptomatic well, lets just say youtube has contributed far more to celiac disease than gluten has, it's making a lot of money for the few. I'm not saying that removing wheat doesn't help people, I'm sure refocusing on diet and a healthy lifestyle just might have something to do with it. Google "blue zone" the healthiest and oldest people on the planet consume a diet that contain wheat and dairy......
IIRC celiac instances have shot up 400% over the last 50 or so years. A lot of that is detection, but not all of it.
As for the blue zone, bet those people also eat fermented foods daily like it's their job.
The Japanese like their fermented foods but I'm not sure how than translates into health, I seen some disturbing research, but most of the other zones don't consume much fermented foods. Basically it's about how you lead your life in all related aspects, just not diet for overall health and well being, the vast difference between the diets of these zones tells us we as humans are very adaptable and can thrive in just about any environment, our population is proof of that.
fermented foods are one of the best things you can do for your health. everything in our modern lives destroys the bacteria living in our gut and fermented foods and probiotics replace them. fermented foods have everything to do with our health, and thus, the civilizations that eat them regularly tend to be healthier, have better teeth and bones, live longer, etc.
400% increase in Celiac cases since 1950: http://www.celiac.com/articles/21859/1/Celiac-Disease-Rates-Skyrocket-Up-400-in-Last-50-Years/Page1.html0 -
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
So, what you are saying is that there is evidence that a subset of homo sapiens sapiens has shown an adapation to their diets in under 10,000 years???
Also, I don't have celiac. My mom does. I've been tested. I'm fine eating grains.
then eat grains. I don't care either way. I eat them myself. doesn't mean I don't understand why people choose not to.
and yes to your first question, but not in the last 40 years during the genetic modification of wheat which is why we've seen a spike in celiac. our bodies can't keep up with genetic modifications that create grains that are even more difficult to digest.
Lol. We've been genetically modifying grain since we invented agriculture. And probably before that.
Also, if my mom has not had time to adapt to gluten...but I have...what is that? Like a one generation evolutionary leap?
I don't quite think you understand how genetics works...
I was wondering if YOU do since you think that, in a sea of genetic variability that the difficulty *some people* have in digesting some foods, has anything to do with the ability of other people to digest foods that have been a regular part of our diet for a long...long time.
You know, there are some people (families) who appear immune to AIDS. They lack the protein markers on their t-cells that the rest of us have. The presence of that instance of genetic variability doesn't inform my behavior either.0 -
Pffttt... I don't know where you live, but "race" isn't so clear cut where I live.
Maybe YOUR body "appreciates a break" but my body ("white" by appearance but not necessarily by heritage, btw) hasn't needed a break in 45 years.
Please stop the fear mongering.
You realize, of course, that you are my case in point?
Have you ever gone off grains to see what the difference is? If not, then how do you know your body hasn't needed a break?
I like grains. They help me make my calories. I like legumes. They help me get my protein.
I don't experience any ill effects.
Why would I "fix" something that isn't broken?0 -
http://www.celiaccentral.org/celiac-disease/facts-and-figures/
You mean complaints of bloating and not feeling optimal, yeah I can see that would have increased.....what is the % of people that have documented celiac?How much has celiac disease increased over the last 30years? and what % of the population now have documented celiac disease? As far as being symptomatic well, lets just say youtube has contributed far more to celiac disease than gluten has, it's making a lot of money for the few. I'm not saying that removing wheat doesn't help people, I'm sure refocusing on diet and a healthy lifestyle just might have something to do with it. Google "blue zone" the healthiest and oldest people on the planet consume a diet that contain wheat and dairy......
IIRC celiac instances have shot up 400% over the last 50 or so years. A lot of that is detection, but not all of it.
As for the blue zone, bet those people also eat fermented foods daily like it's their job.
The Japanese like their fermented foods but I'm not sure how than translates into health, I seen some disturbing research, but most of the other zones don't consume much fermented foods. Basically it's about how you lead your life in all related aspects, just not diet for overall health and well being, the vast difference between the diets of these zones tells us we as humans are very adaptable and can thrive in just about any environment, our population is proof of that.
fermented foods are one of the best things you can do for your health. everything in our modern lives destroys the bacteria living in our gut and fermented foods and probiotics replace them. fermented foods have everything to do with our health, and thus, the civilizations that eat them regularly tend to be healthier, have better teeth and bones, live longer, etc.
400% increase in Celiac cases since 1950: http://www.celiac.com/articles/21859/1/Celiac-Disease-Rates-Skyrocket-Up-400-in-Last-50-Years/Page1.html
EDIT: you might want to research fermented foods and gut bacteria and see if it actually hangs around repopulating or gets digest and exits out the back door in the next bowel movement.....nice business to be in thou.0 -
How much has celiac disease increased over the last 30years? and what % of the population now have documented celiac disease? As far as being symptomatic well, lets just say youtube has contributed far more to celiac disease than gluten has, it's making a lot of money for the few. I'm not saying that removing wheat doesn't help people, I'm sure refocusing on diet and a healthy lifestyle just might have something to do with it. Google "blue zone" the healthiest and oldest people on the planet consume a diet that contain wheat and dairy......
IIRC celiac instances have shot up 400% over the last 50 or so years. A lot of that is detection, but not all of it.
As for the blue zone, bet those people also eat fermented foods daily like it's their job.
This supports a hypothesis very different from "people haven't evolved to digest gluten"0 -
yes they do, which is why they teach the scientific method in high school. Lack of understanding about science and the scientific method leads to people falling for all the faddy diets and other pseudoscience that goes around. Like people who refuse to vaccinate their kids, or people who think that grain is the cause of obesity....
I'm not saying grains is the only, or even the leading cause, of obesity, but I do think there is enough evidence out there that it may be one of the major contributors for certain people -- for those prone to or have insulin resistance, diabetes, Hashimoto's, PCOS, etc.. Whether that's 5% or 50% of the obese population, I don't know. But, the principles behind it appear plausible.
you are totally hung up on grains................ NO, people have been eating grains in large quantities since the mesolithic era at least, palaeolithic people ate them too (mesolithic people didn''t suddenly start storing large quantities of food they'd never eaten before)..... diabetes, obesity epidemics etc didn't affect the vast majority of grain eating peoples for the vast majority of the time people have been eating a lot of grain, and haven't had these problems. Grains are not the cause of these problems. there isn't even a correlation going on here....
what's different now is people are sedentary and eat more than they burn off. In the past, people did much more physical labour (e.g. tilling the land to grow wheat, working in paddy fields growing rice) and couldn't get hold of food in sufficient quantities to get obese.
Yep. Grains began to be cultivated as soon as humans figured out how to do it. In some parts of the world, grains have been cultivated for thousands of years. (Because all humans know that grains/cereals are awesome, except those humans who blame grains for "making" them fat)0 -
It's the lack of knowledge about palaeoanthropology that disturbs me about the paleo diet.
"our neanderthal ancestor" ---- you mean the one that had an affair with our Homo sapiens sapiens ancestor who'd just moved into Europe (approx 40,000 years ago), thus accounting for the 1-4% neanderthal DNA in our genome? ("our" as in "mine and yours" but this doesn't apply to all modern humans as not all have any neanderthal DNA. Not everyone here actually has any neanderthal ancestors at all)
Palaeoanthropologists actually know rather a lot about the kinds of food various palaeolithic people ate (which spans several different species of human and they didn't all eat the same things) but they're things that are either extinct, or not palatable to the sensitive tastes of modern people. For example, woolly mammoth, hippos, honey with bee larvae still in it, and various other insects and insect larvae. Oh yeah, and scavenged lion kill, i.e. smash up the bones to get the brains and marrow and eat it raw. That appears to be one of the main staple foods of the earliest humans.
As for not having to actually emulate the actual diets of actual palaeolithic people............... call the diet something else FFS!!!! you guys wouldn't get one tenth of the stick that you get if you called it the "allergy, intolerance and sensitivity avoidance diet" or the "food like your great grandmother ate" diet, or something, and also weren't going around perpetuating a whole lot of misinformation about palaeolithic people. There's enough ignorance about human evolution that's the direct result of creationists (or, more specifically, schools hesitating to teach it properly for fear of "being controversial" which really means for fear of upsetting any creationists), without paleo diet people adding to it.
^^^ BAM!! This has got to be one of my favourite replies on MFP thus far.0 -
Well, one thing: if soluble fiber absorbs protein and fat, and I have a cup of oatmeal and a half grapefruit in the morning, how much more bacon can I eat?
If you're Paleo/Primal, you can eat as much bacon as you'd like (though aim for the ones with no nitrates/nitrites)! Though minimal/no oatmeal. Choices, choices.
^^ And this is how "carnivores" can easily pack on the pounds! Yummy, yummy bacon that can be eaten *by the pound.*
(Or in the case of my mother, it was spare ribs, but yeah, either way, you can get fat on meat if you are under the impression that you can eat "as much as you'd like.") 0 -
True "paleo" diet?
Hmm.
Well, how about the Iceman- 5,000 years old?
His stomach was stuffed with fatty goat meat. Some extra stuff too, but mainly goat meat.
he was chalcolithic, not palaeolithic. and the neolithic came before the chalcolithic
Are their actual stomach contents to be analyzed from people older than 5,000 old?
I didn't think so.
What we find in the iceman is REAL science, not speculation put together by diet "gurus."
Cro-Magnon man only goes back about 25,000 years.
The paleo diet is not based on any science, as I've been saying through this thread.
it may not be based on accurate evolutionary science but the nutritional science is sound.
And that would be great...except every article I've read about it makes the case that the nutritional science is sound BECAUSE "This is what our ancestors evolved to eat." And there is no nutritional reason to eliminate grains and legumes, potatoes and dairy.
I disagree wholeheartedly. Dairy and grains have been shown to create inflammatory and mucosal responses in some people and there is no nutritional necessity in having either in our diets. Your body becomes inflamed or creates mucous as a response to something foreign that it isn't able to handle properly entering the system. Can some people handle these things better than others? Sure. Can white people handle dairy better than blacks and asians and other races? Yep. (Because evolution) But that doesn't mean your body won't appreciate the break from having to process things it has a difficult time processing.
"in some people" is the key point here0
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