My Experience with Raw Vegan 80/10/10 Challenge Month
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Were you under the impression that someone is trying to call the human a grass eater? Pretty there is a lot more to fruit and veg than cellulose...
Not everyone, just humans.
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
You're right humans don't show one single evolutionary adaptation for eating anything other than plants, after all that's why we still have a massive appendix for fermenting and digesting cellulose, oh.....wait.......0 -
Were you under the impression that someone is trying to call the human a grass eater? Pretty there is a lot more to fruit and veg than cellulose...
Not everyone, just humans.
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
You're right humans don't show one single evolutionary adaptation for eating anything other than plants, after all that's why we still have a massive appendix for fermenting and digesting cellulose, oh.....wait.......
Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores.0 -
Then why do people function so well when they get off the meat and onto a fruit and vegetable diet?
Were you under the impression that someone is trying to call the human a grass eater? Pretty there is a lot more to fruit and veg than cellulose...
Not everyone, just humans.
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
You're right humans don't show one single evolutionary adaptation for eating anything other than plants, after all that's why we still have a massive appendix for fermenting and digesting cellulose, oh.....wait.......
Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores.0 -
"Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores."
Ok, so we're ominvores. Find me one who logged 10,000 cycling miles for 2013 with detailed lab/blood work and let's compare scientific data.0 -
Then why do people function so well when they get off the meat and onto a fruit and vegetable diet?
Were you under the impression that someone is trying to call the human a grass eater? Pretty there is a lot more to fruit and veg than cellulose...
Not everyone, just humans.
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
You're right humans don't show one single evolutionary adaptation for eating anything other than plants, after all that's why we still have a massive appendix for fermenting and digesting cellulose, oh.....wait.......
Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores.
You have yet to provide a single scientific citation that they do. You are the one making claims counter to every from of evidence from human functional morphology and anthropological record. You make the claim, YOU back it up.0 -
"Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores."
Ok, so we're ominvores. Find me one who logged 10,000 cycling miles for 2013 with detailed lab/blood work and let's compare scientific data.
That's NOT scientific data, that's anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of 2. You are comparing between two completely different individuals with an unimaginable number of confounding variables. A slightly better idea would be for YOU to attempt an omnivorous diet for at least several months keeping all other factors EXACTLY the same. There would be no way to control for BIAS, and the sample size is still far too small, but it would be something.0 -
You made the claim that humans are not adapted to be fruit eaters, that we are somehow meat eaters, despite the fact that our bodies are set up like plant eaters, which is absolutely outlandish, yet you back it up with nothing.
Then why do people function so well when they get off the meat and onto a fruit and vegetable diet?
Were you under the impression that someone is trying to call the human a grass eater? Pretty there is a lot more to fruit and veg than cellulose...
Not everyone, just humans.
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
You're right humans don't show one single evolutionary adaptation for eating anything other than plants, after all that's why we still have a massive appendix for fermenting and digesting cellulose, oh.....wait.......
Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores.
You have yet to provide a single scientific citation that they do. You are the one making claims counter to every from of evidence from human functional morphology and anthropological record. You make the claim, YOU back it up.0 -
You made the claim that humans are not adapted to be fruit eaters, that we are somehow meat eaters, despite the fact that our bodies are set up like plant eaters, which is absolutely outlandish, yet you back it up with nothing.
Then why do people function so well when they get off the meat and onto a fruit and vegetable diet?
Were you under the impression that someone is trying to call the human a grass eater? Pretty there is a lot more to fruit and veg than cellulose...
Not everyone, just humans.
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
You're right humans don't show one single evolutionary adaptation for eating anything other than plants, after all that's why we still have a massive appendix for fermenting and digesting cellulose, oh.....wait.......
Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores.
You have yet to provide a single scientific citation that they do. You are the one making claims counter to every from of evidence from human functional morphology and anthropological record. You make the claim, YOU back it up.
NOW, I am entertained! :laugh:0 -
You made the claim that humans are not adapted to be fruit eaters, that we are somehow meat eaters, despite the fact that our bodies are set up like plant eaters, which is absolutely outlandish, yet you back it up with nothing.
Then why do people function so well when they get off the meat and onto a fruit and vegetable diet?
Were you under the impression that someone is trying to call the human a grass eater? Pretty there is a lot more to fruit and veg than cellulose...
Not everyone, just humans.
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
You're right humans don't show one single evolutionary adaptation for eating anything other than plants, after all that's why we still have a massive appendix for fermenting and digesting cellulose, oh.....wait.......
Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores.
You have yet to provide a single scientific citation that they do. You are the one making claims counter to every from of evidence from human functional morphology and anthropological record. You make the claim, YOU back it up.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
That's all I can say without getting a strike. Clearly, I've been teaching evolution and adaptation wrong all these years, quick better go rewrite EVERY functional morphology textbook in existence.0 -
"Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores."
Ok, so we're ominvores. Find me one who logged 10,000 cycling miles for 2013 with detailed lab/blood work and let's compare scientific data.
That's NOT scientific data, that's anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of 2. You are comparing between two completely different individuals with an unimaginable number of confounding variables. A slightly better idea would be for YOU to attempt an omnivorous diet for at least several months keeping all other factors EXACTLY the same. There would be no way to control for BIAS, and the sample size is still far too small, but it would be something.
Ok, I'll give that a shot and report back. Or better yet, perhaps I'll consume bacon only on my next 200-mile ride and see if I'll increase my Functional Threshold Power (FTP) above 275 watts.0 -
"Humans show a clear and obvious set of adaptations for omnivorous diet, which includes the consumption of meat. The modern human species also shows clear indications of a movement AWAY from more plant based diets of our ancestral species with the reduction and loss of the appendix, and reduction of our grinding teeth. We are NOT adapted to be herbivores or frugivores, we are omnivores."
Ok, so we're ominvores. Find me one who logged 10,000 cycling miles for 2013 with detailed lab/blood work and let's compare scientific data.
That's NOT scientific data, that's anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of 2. You are comparing between two completely different individuals with an unimaginable number of confounding variables. A slightly better idea would be for YOU to attempt an omnivorous diet for at least several months keeping all other factors EXACTLY the same. There would be no way to control for BIAS, and the sample size is still far too small, but it would be something.
Ok, I'll give that a shot and report back. Or better yet, perhaps I'll consume bacon only on my next 200-mile ride and see if I'll increase my Functional Threshold Power (FTP) above 275 watts.
That's sort of my point, trying to compare different diets like this is completely impractical. Like I've said several times, I have no doubt that this diet is working well for you, it is a perfectly functional diet when managed responsibly. But it is next to impossible to establish with scientific criteria that there is one way of eating that is better for everybody, end of statement.
What we do know is that we have adaptations that allow us to eat a wide range of food items, this is a good thing and is part of what has made us successful as a species in a wide variety of environments, but it is also what causes problems when trying to determine "best". The answer is probably slightly different for everybody based on their own ancestral lineage.0 -
“But it is next to impossible to establish with scientific criteria that there is one way of eating that is better for everybody, end of statement. “
I partially disagree with your last statement. I’m not sure how much scientific evidence you (and/or others) might need--The China Study or documentaries like Morgan Spurlock’s “Super Size Me” is enough for me to know eating a certain way is detrimental to your health. Personally I came to my present diet (not by the influence of others) but by eliminating foods that did not “sit well” or in other words gave me no benefit in daily performance (activity or not). However, I’ll attest to certain extremes (i.e. eating nothing but McDonald’s or eating nothing but bananas) is probably overboard and most would agree not to try either. In a nutshell, I tell people all the time they should probably NOT become vegan/plant-based (or eat like I do), instead eliminate/add things to their existing diets, e.g. give up fried foods and maybe reduce dairy intake somewhat. The growing consensus in the medical world is beginning to acknowledge the health crisis and less importance should be placed on pharmaceuticals and more on diet. If someone is eating a well-balanced diet, I’d say that’s a step in the right direction. Nonetheless, I still firmly (IMO) believe a plant-based diet to a high-endurance athlete offers better recovery which could potentially lead to better results.0 -
“But it is next to impossible to establish with scientific criteria that there is one way of eating that is better for everybody, end of statement. “
I partially disagree with your last statement. I’m not sure how much scientific evidence you (and/or others) might need--The China Study or documentaries like Morgan Spurlock’s “Super Size Me” is enough for me to know eating a certain way is detrimental to your health. Personally I came to my present diet (not by the influence of others) but by eliminating foods that did not “sit well” or in other words gave me no benefit in daily performance (activity or not). However, I’ll attest to certain extremes (i.e. eating nothing but McDonald’s or eating nothing but bananas) is probably overboard and most would agree not to try either. In a nutshell, I tell people all the time they should probably NOT become vegan/plant-based (or eat like I do), instead eliminate/add things to their existing diets, e.g. give up fried foods and maybe reduce dairy intake somewhat. The growing consensus in the medical world is beginning to acknowledge the health crisis and less importance should be placed on pharmaceuticals and more on diet. If someone is eating a well-balanced diet, I’d say that’s a step in the right direction. Nonetheless, I still firmly (IMO) believe a plant-based diet to a high-endurance athlete offers better recovery which could potentially lead to better results.
Sorry. I stopped reading at "The China Study or documentaries like Morgan Spurlock’s “Super Size Me” is enough for me to know ..."
I am astounded that people continue to draw causation conclusions from either of those works of art.0 -
Sorry. I stopped reading at "The China Study or documentaries like Morgan Spurlock’s “Super Size Me” is enough for me to know ..."
I am astounded that people continue to draw causation conclusions from either of those works of art.
Since you had "whey protein and Hershey's chocolate syrup" for breakfast can't say I am surprised either...0 -
“But it is next to impossible to establish with scientific criteria that there is one way of eating that is better for everybody, end of statement. “
I partially disagree with your last statement. I’m not sure how much scientific evidence you (and/or others) might need--The China Study or documentaries like Morgan Spurlock’s “Super Size Me” is enough for me to know eating a certain way is detrimental to your health. Personally I came to my present diet (not by the influence of others) but by eliminating foods that did not “sit well” or in other words gave me no benefit in daily performance (activity or not). However, I’ll attest to certain extremes (i.e. eating nothing but McDonald’s or eating nothing but bananas) is probably overboard and most would agree not to try either. In a nutshell, I tell people all the time they should probably NOT become vegan/plant-based (or eat like I do), instead eliminate/add things to their existing diets, e.g. give up fried foods and maybe reduce dairy intake somewhat. The growing consensus in the medical world is beginning to acknowledge the health crisis and less importance should be placed on pharmaceuticals and more on diet. If someone is eating a well-balanced diet, I’d say that’s a step in the right direction. Nonetheless, I still firmly (IMO) believe a plant-based diet to a high-endurance athlete offers better recovery which could potentially lead to better results.
Neither of those examples follow proper scientific testing protocols. I understand that to the general populace they can seem very persuasive, but the methods used have no place in true scientific research and call any attempt at conclusions in to immediate question. And while I certainly agree that diet has a profound and important influence on overall health, there is not a single authority out there that would go beyond a blanket statement of "well balanced, get all your nutrients". Why? Because they'd get called out the minute they did so for an inability to provide conclusive data, because no conclusive data exists, there are just far to many variables that would have to be factored in.0 -
Neither of those examples follow proper scientific testing protocols. I understand that to the general populace they can seem very persuasive, but the methods used have no place in true scientific research and call any attempt at conclusions in to immediate question. And while I certainly agree that diet has a profound and important influence on overall health, there is not a single authority out there that would go beyond a blanket statement of "well balanced, get all your nutrients". Why? Because they'd get called out the minute they did so for an inability to provide conclusive data, because no conclusive data exists, there are just far to many variables that would have to be factored in.
Yes, I used those films for more general popularity examples. I agree to there are too “many variables” to give fair comparison. As I stated previously, a well-balanced diet is a step in the right direction--and if a person is generally just trying to get into better shape this is fine enough.
High-mileage athletes like myself will need to contend with recovery time more so and will more than likely come to some sort of a plant-type/high carb based diet on their own accord.0 -
Sorry. I stopped reading at "The China Study or documentaries like Morgan Spurlock’s “Super Size Me” is enough for me to know ..."
I am astounded that people continue to draw causation conclusions from either of those works of art.
Since you had "whey protein and Hershey's chocolate syrup" for breakfast can't say I am surprised either...
That whey protein is a killer, isn't it? And did you notice the quantity of Hershey's chocolate-flavored syrup? Think the dose is sufficiently high enough to diminish my health in any way? Or do you even consider dose in your determination?
One of my favorite parts about MFP are the "righteous" eaters with closed food diaries.
Second to that are those with an open diary, but an excuse for their "transgressions".0 -
Neither of those examples follow proper scientific testing protocols. I understand that to the general populace they can seem very persuasive, but the methods used have no place in true scientific research and call any attempt at conclusions in to immediate question. And while I certainly agree that diet has a profound and important influence on overall health, there is not a single authority out there that would go beyond a blanket statement of "well balanced, get all your nutrients". Why? Because they'd get called out the minute they did so for an inability to provide conclusive data, because no conclusive data exists, there are just far to many variables that would have to be factored in.
Yes, I used those films for more general popularity examples. I agree to there are too “many variables” to give fair comparison. As I stated previously, a well-balanced diet is a step in the right direction--and if a person is generally just trying to get into better shape this is fine enough.
High-mileage athletes like myself will need to contend with recovery time more so and will more than likely come to some sort of a plant-type/high carb based diet on their own accord.
Whereas someone like myself who is more interested in combining medium mileage and strength will have an easier time incorporating higher protein and fat in to their diet (which can be done full vegan, but takes A LOT more work). Either option can be perfectly healthy. Which all circles back to my original statement about only getting annoyed when people make blanket statements that their way is "the best" and what everyone should be doing.0 -
For ultimate energy, weight loss, and fitness improvements, the best way is high carbohydrate, low fat, whole foods plant based diet.Hello everyone, this is a great thread! Right now I'm debating between following a raw/vegan diet or following a low carb high protein diet called (see www.Bearware.info). My goal is weight loss & improved energy. Ideally, I would like to be able to call this way of eating a healthy lifestyle, not a diet.
That is your way. It's not the best way for everyone.
If history is any indication, he would, and inevitably will, strongly disagree.
Nailed it.
:laugh:0 -
At least he doesn't have green handlebar tape. Obviously that disqualifies you from having a valid opinion.
Sorry. I stopped reading at "The China Study or documentaries like Morgan Spurlock’s “Super Size Me” is enough for me to know ..."
I am astounded that people continue to draw causation conclusions from either of those works of art.
Since you had "whey protein and Hershey's chocolate syrup" for breakfast can't say I am surprised either...0
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