Vegan?
Replies
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On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby
This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.
...What?
Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.
To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.
I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!
The problem with this typical vegan argument is that all farmed animals are equated with factory farming. There ARE other methods of raising cows that aren't like that, and obtaining the by-products from those animals are becoming far more popular. People are becoming more aware of those issues and completely denouncing all types of animal husbandry doesn't help your case or cause.0 -
I'm sure you probably didn't really mean to lump every single milk drinker in the entire world into the animal abuser crowd, but just in case you did, a little bit of information so as to broaden your horizons. My cow is a pet: loved, scratched, coddled, and petted. She keeps her babies and we share the milk until such time as the calf is weaned (which ALL bovines, even wild ones eventually do), then yes, we do get all the milk, until the next baby comes along. And there are many such evil milk drinkers as we are, whose source of milk is seen as the lifeblood and most necessary part of their ecosystem, so please don't make such overarching comments about an entire group of people. That would sorta be like me saying vegans are stupid... If you get my drift.
:flowerforyou:0 -
On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby
This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.
...What?
Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.
To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.
I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!
The problem with this typical vegan argument is that all farmed animals are equated with factory farming. There ARE other methods of raising cows that aren't like that, and obtaining the by-products from those animals are becoming far more popular. People are becoming more aware of those issues and completely denouncing all types of animal husbandry doesn't help your case or cause.
Of course you can get milk by other, kinder methods! But the eggs, milk, etc in your typical packed/boxed foods or food you order at restaurants unfortunately can't be trusted to be from the same kind sources.
I would be eating the eggs from my partner's father's ducks if I didn't get a severe case of food poisoning from eggs shortly before going vegan, because I know those little girls are beyond happy and loved 0 -
I second this.All I can say if your young child is going vegan please go see a dietitian that specializes in pediatrics.
Third this. And if you don't, then don't make your kid go vegan. That's potentially harmful.
I WILL be talking with my daughter ped before i make any decisions on her food/diet as i always have! I want her to be as healthy as possible and would not do anything to put her in harm, but i do not see why going vegan would be any harm to her what so ever! Its HEALTHY food, veggies and fruit and beans and other things that we are ment to eat, she dosent really like meat yet anyway sometimes she will eat chicken or eggs but i will be talking with her dr before i give her or stop giving her anything.
I would go see vegan doctors and read resources on raising vegan children. If her doctor isn't vegan they will likely have a lot of ignorance about plant-based diets.
I agree with this. Being a veggie for years now, I realized that lots of people just like to **** on veggies. I'm sure you've notice this in the thread. It takes courage to stand out from the norm and go on your own way; lots of people without that courage will tell you that you're being crazy.... that's part of the their defense mechanism when they see something 'abnormal'. I think Bowling for Soup said it best - High School Never Ends. While shutting the meaningful replies out is silly, try to tune out the haters who are going to hate no matter what.
That goes for your doctor to. Many doctors are worth squat. Some are worth their weight in gold. Some never listen to you; some are perceptive as hell. Make sure you're getting the best advice you can, then get a second opinion. See what keeps ringing as true to your internal self.
And WELCOME to the veggie club - It's yummier than you think! 0 -
On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby
This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.
...What?
Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.
To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.
I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!
Well, aside from your obvious lack of education, farming animals and drinking other species' milk is what has made our species so successful. If you'd rather go back to being a primate and eating mostly fruit (they still eat meat too by the way), then maybe that's more "natural" to you. There are plenty of options for less cruel ways to get milk. For me, I know that eating meat and dairy and eggs is too important to my health to give up for any reason. And just in case any vegans think that their diet is more compassionate, you should know that it's not. There are plenty of other animals that are killed and displaced from vegetable and soy farms. There's just no way around it. The best you can do is to choose ALL of your food as wisely as you can. Local, sustainable, organic.0 -
This!!!
Being a veggie for years now, I realized that lots of people just like to **** on veggies. I'm sure you've notice this in the thread. It takes courage to stand out from the norm and go on your own way; lots of people without that courage will tell you that you're being crazy.... that's part of the their defense mechanism when they see something 'abnormal'. I think Bowling for Soup said it best - High School Never Ends. While shutting the meaningful replies out is silly, try to tune out the haters who are going to hate no matter what.
That goes for your doctor to. Many doctors are worth squat. Some are worth their weight in gold. Some never listen to you; some are perceptive as hell. Make sure you're getting the best advice you can, then get a second opinion. See what keeps ringing as true to your internal self.
And WELCOME to the veggie club - It's yummier than you think!0 -
My baby has been vegan since conception and is 19 months now....he is so far perfect in every way health wise. I've been vegan for almost 7 years.
That said, I am very careful with how we eat, AND he is still breastfed, so he is getting a lot of nutrients from me. Really he doesn't eat a lot of food anyways.
I will have to say that most people get enough protein, that it's rarely an issue, you just need to make sure your diet is varied, we eat a lot of beans, and leafy greens.
And I've based my life changing decisions off of research. Keep researching.
How can your baby be vegan if you're breastfeeding him? Kind of a contradiction. Sounds to me like he's getting most of his diet from animal based sources...namely you.
Ha! I was wondering the same thing... :huh:
Just a point, if momma isn't drinking cow's milk then baby is not getting any lactose. So if momma is vegan, essentially baby is vegan too. Unless you are making the point that momma is an animal so breastmilk is an animal byproduct...?
And before anyone blasts this post.... I have a background in nutrition, child development, and I am a former human milk tech for a local hospital. I did my homework on this one
Yes, I was making that point. Humans are animals. Human byproducts are animal byproducts so by definition a baby that is breastfeeding is not vegan. This refers back to my point that animal based proteins have a better amino acid profile for muscle synthesis and contain more of the essential amino acids that a growing baby needs. Human breast milk falls into this category.
LOL drinking milk from another species is not vegan because it is exploiting an animal who's milk was supposed to go to her babies and those babies are killed so a human can drink the milk. But drinking milk from your own species is completely normal. All species of animals drink breast milk until they are weaned. When you are an adult, there is absolutely no need for it.
I'm sure you probably didn't really mean to lump every single milk drinker in the entire world into the animal abuser crowd, but just in case you did, a little bit of information so as to broaden your horizons. My cow is a pet: loved, scratched, coddled, and petted. She keeps her babies and we share the milk until such time as the calf is weaned (which ALL bovines, even wild ones eventually do), then yes, we do get all the milk, until the next baby comes along. And there are many such evil milk drinkers as we are, whose source of milk is seen as the lifeblood and most necessary part of their ecosystem, so please don't make such overarching comments about an entire group of people. That would sorta be like me saying vegans are stupid... If you get my drift.
Sorry if I came across that way. I know most milk drinkers are not evil, they just don't know the implications of what they are doing. In your case, that is certainly better than factory farming, but I'm curious... what happens to the calves? Do they get eaten as veal? Most people don't drink their cat or dog's milk and they are their pets, so it just seems odd that cows are treated differently. Most people would not have the urge to drink the cat or dog's milk so why would they have the urge to drink the cows? I would love to have a cow as a pet. But I would treat them like a dog or cat and not milk them after their babies are weaned.
Now, I'm not in an American bubble and don't know how it is in other parts of the world. I've traveled to over 35 countries and seen they really do need it to survive in some cases...where they are in the middle of a desert and drink camel milk for instance. But for those of us in 1st world countries that drink obscene amounts of milk and meat from factory farmed animals- it's wrecking the environment and killing billions of animals per year for no reason when we have so many alternatives here.0 -
Most people don't drink their cat or dog's milk and they are their pets, so it just seems odd that cows are treated differently. Most people would not have the urge to drink the cat or dog's milk so why would they have the urge to drink the cows? I would love to have a cow as a pet. But I would treat them like a dog or cat and not milk them after their babies are weaned.
Thank! Omg that was hands down the funniest thing I've read in a while. LoL Seriously?! All I could do after that was imagine someone trying to milk a little kitty teet. :laugh: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:0 -
Most people don't drink their cat or dog's milk and they are their pets, so it just seems odd that cows are treated differently. Most people would not have the urge to drink the cat or dog's milk so why would they have the urge to drink the cows? I would love to have a cow as a pet. But I would treat them like a dog or cat and not milk them after their babies are weaned.
Thank! Omg that was hands down the funniest thing I've read in a while. LoL Seriously?! All I could do after that was imagine someone trying to milk a little kitty teet. :laugh: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
Most people spay their animals anyway so it'd be hard to get milk from the average pet cat.. :laugh:
My cat would kill the **** out of me if I tried to milk him. Also because he's a dude. :laugh:0 -
Hi, I was vegetarian for 15 years and did a year and a half as a vegan. I actually tried twice to become vegan, I failed miserably the first time because I didn't do much research. The second time I prepared. Take a few months to learn about becoming vegan and also to start switching out your groceries.
I bought the complete idiots guide to becoming Vegan and found it very helpful. I will note that eating healthy as a vegan is a lot of work in the beginning and that you should be as prepared as possible, also be ready for slip ups, especially when eating out anywhere. Did you know that there is beef juice in Trident Splash gum? That some sugar is made white by being run through charcoal animal bones? So do you cut out all refined sugar or take the time to find out which companies use the animal bone process or the plant charcoal process? Brown sugar doesn't work either because it's just white sugar with molasses. Also some alcohols use animal fat for clarity. There is so much to learn when becoming vegan and it will boggle your mind when you find out what animal products are in things.
I would suggest that you take your time and just test it out, it's a big change for just one person much less a whole family. I started eating meat when I became pregnant because I knew I didn't have what it took to eat properly. MyFitnessPal has helped change that so I'm pretty sure I'll go back to being vegetarian.
I guess the biggest thing is, if this is something you really want for your family and believe in, you'll make it happen, and if not then maybe you'll try being a vegetarian or still eating meat with a focus on frutis and veggies. Either way good luck and my biggest advice is prepare, read as much as you possibly can, not just to be sure it's the healthiest choice but to ensure success because it is not an easy transition.0 -
My baby has been vegan since conception and is 19 months now....he is so far perfect in every way health wise. I've been vegan for almost 7 years.
That said, I am very careful with how we eat, AND he is still breastfed, so he is getting a lot of nutrients from me. Really he doesn't eat a lot of food anyways.
I will have to say that most people get enough protein, that it's rarely an issue, you just need to make sure your diet is varied, we eat a lot of beans, and leafy greens.
And I've based my life changing decisions off of research. Keep researching.
How can your baby be vegan if you're breastfeeding him? Kind of a contradiction. Sounds to me like he's getting most of his diet from animal based sources...namely you.
The point about most people getting enough protein, you were joking right? That's got to be a joke. Most people don't get nearly enough protein. Most people just get barely enough protein so that their muscles don't atrophy on a constant basis, I wouldn't call that getting enough protein.
This is a point that gets brought up a lot, and I know people have already answered for me, but just for myself I would like to answer too. My milk was made FOR my child, and I'm willing giving it to him to grow and to thrive, as he is. Being vegan is about stopping animal exploitation as much as possible. I'm not being exploited by giving my son his own milk that my body has made specifically for him. I understand where the confusion lies so I hope that clears it up for you.
I'm not really going to argue the health side of things because you're for sure someone that wouldn't even begin to be reasoned with, but as far as aminos go....as long as you're eating a varied healthy diet (which I believe you have said) you should be good. The problem lies when people don't take care of their diet, which they should be doing vegan or not, people just don't care.
And actually yes the SAD diet, for standard American diet, most people are getting more than enough protein. Granted of course if you are lifting or trying to get more muscle or what not, you do need more, but the average person gets more than enough.
The one thing that vegans do need to be careful on is B12. It's fortified in a lot of things, but it wouldn't hurt to take a supplement....
Oh and as far as restricting my child's diet? or making his choices for him? Ya, being a vegan is a personal choice, but it's also a personal choice to eat meat. And people "force" their children to do that. Being a parent is about guiding your child to make the right choices, and when they are little they pretty much do what you do, so it's logical that my child would be vegan since I am. It's also logical that a Christian family would have their child go to a Christian church, because that's what their family does, it's not really forcing until the child is old enough to make up their mind, so once my baby is old enough to make his own decisions then he can tell me what he wants to do in regards to veganism, but until then, he is going to do what I do. Which is what all of our children do, vegan or omnivore. And my pediatrician does know my baby is vegan. Never batted an eye.
Different strokes for different folks.
Oh and OP? make sure your daughter gets a lot of healthy good fats and omegas for brain development...it is crucial in the early years.0 -
On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby
This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.
...What?
Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.
To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.
I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!
Well, aside from your obvious lack of education, farming animals and drinking other species' milk is what has made our species so successful. If you'd rather go back to being a primate and eating mostly fruit (they still eat meat too by the way), then maybe that's more "natural" to you. There are plenty of options for less cruel ways to get milk. For me, I know that eating meat and dairy and eggs is too important to my health to give up for any reason. And just in case any vegans think that their diet is more compassionate, you should know that it's not. There are plenty of other animals that are killed and displaced from vegetable and soy farms. There's just no way around it. The best you can do is to choose ALL of your food as wisely as you can. Local, sustainable, organic.
No need to patronise me nor insult me.
We never factory farmed animals when we were still evolving, we hunted them. Factory farming is a modern thing. I'm sorry but YOU must have a severe lack of education if you think factory farming is thousands of years old.
And, I've already stated I agree with kinder methods of getting milk, eggs, etc, even saying I would eat the eggs of my partner's father's ducks if I hadn't had a severe food poisoning incident that makes my stomach churn even looking at eggs.
EDIT: Oh, and I wouldn't say we're the most successful species on the planet, at all. We're the most cruel, exploitative, parasitic species on Earth, and we're collectively destroying it.0 -
I would sooner go back to eating meat than drink milk or eat dairy again. At least the animals that turn into meat die. Dairy cows suffer so much longer and so much more painfully.0
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Doctors are not educated very well in nutrition. Nutritionists yes, find a vegan nutritionist if you are worried. It is not a highly restricted diet.
So a doctor who doesn't agree with you is ignorant?
I second this.All I can say if your young child is going vegan please go see a dietitian that specializes in pediatrics.
Third this. And if you don't, then don't make your kid go vegan. That's potentially harmful.
I WILL be talking with my daughter ped before i make any decisions on her food/diet as i always have! I want her to be as healthy as possible and would not do anything to put her in harm, but i do not see why going vegan would be any harm to her what so ever! Its HEALTHY food, veggies and fruit and beans and other things that we are ment to eat, she dosent really like meat yet anyway sometimes she will eat chicken or eggs but i will be talking with her dr before i give her or stop giving her anything.
I would go see vegan doctors and read resources on raising vegan children. If her doctor isn't vegan they will likely have a lot of ignorance about plant-based diets.
No, but not very many doctors are educated in this. If they were, they would agree with it I'm sure!
No they wouldn't. It is a highly restrictive diet that if done poorly easily leads to malnutrition. The supposed health benefits have not been shown to arise from a purely Vegan diet either.0 -
Sorry if I came across that way. I know most milk drinkers are not evil, they just don't know the implications of what they are doing. In your case, that is certainly better than factory farming, but I'm curious... what happens to the calves? Do they get eaten as veal? Most people don't drink their cat or dog's milk and they are their pets, so it just seems odd that cows are treated differently. Most people would not have the urge to drink the cat or dog's milk so why would they have the urge to drink the cows? I would love to have a cow as a pet. But I would treat them like a dog or cat and not milk them after their babies are weaned.
Now, I'm not in an American bubble and don't know how it is in other parts of the world. I've traveled to over 35 countries and seen they really do need it to survive in some cases...where they are in the middle of a desert and drink camel milk for instance. But for those of us in 1st world countries that drink obscene amounts of milk and meat from factory farmed animals- it's wrecking the environment and killing billions of animals per year for no reason when we have so many alternatives here.
As this is a vegan thread and I didn't want to offend or traumatise anyone, I left out what happens to the calf bit, but as you asked. The calf is allowed to stay here with his mother until the new calf arrives (usually when the calf is 18 months old, so not veal anymore), so the cow isn't upset with losing her pasture mate. Then the older calf is given his last meal, which is the very choicest of hay and his favorite grain pellets; then the butcher comes, and his life is ended while he munches away on his hay. I cry a bit and thank the Good Lord for the privilege and blessing of His mercies in allowing me the life of this His creature.
I believe cows, and other dairy animals, are treated differently because they were domesticated and bred to be used as dairy animals. They raise dogs in Vietnam and other eastern countries for the express purpose of eating them. That is their purpose. Now, I suppose if I was hungry enough I'd eat dog, but I don't want to eat MY dog! I know the steers here are going to be used for the express purpose of human sustenance and I try hard not to make them pets! ( usually failing too)
As to the environmental impact of animal husbandry, vegans are not bloodless in this regard, as hundreds of animals are killed every time a combine passes over a wheat or soy field to harvest it. Just watch the carrion birds waiting for their feast. So I guess my question would be, why are those animals any different from cows?0 -
I don't even really think you need to find a vegan dietician, any dietician should be able to help. But ya, most doctors have NO nutrition knowledge whatsoever.
And really it's hard to research properly, there is a lot of biased information out there, pro vegan and anti vegan. You basically just need to figure out what biased information you want to listen to.
I've heard The China Study was fairly thorough, but I've yet to read it. Just skimmed.0 -
My baby has been vegan since conception and is 19 months now....he is so far perfect in every way health wise. I've been vegan for almost 7 years.
That said, I am very careful with how we eat, AND he is still breastfed, so he is getting a lot of nutrients from me. Really he doesn't eat a lot of food anyways.
I will have to say that most people get enough protein, that it's rarely an issue, you just need to make sure your diet is varied, we eat a lot of beans, and leafy greens.
And I've based my life changing decisions off of research. Keep researching.
How can your baby be vegan if you're breastfeeding him? Kind of a contradiction. Sounds to me like he's getting most of his diet from animal based sources...namely you.
The point about most people getting enough protein, you were joking right? That's got to be a joke. Most people don't get nearly enough protein. Most people just get barely enough protein so that their muscles don't atrophy on a constant basis, I wouldn't call that getting enough protein.
This is a point that gets brought up a lot, and I know people have already answered for me, but just for myself I would like to answer too. My milk was made FOR my child, and I'm willing giving it to him to grow and to thrive, as he is. Being vegan is about stopping animal exploitation as much as possible. I'm not being exploited by giving my son his own milk that my body has made specifically for him. I understand where the confusion lies so I hope that clears it up for you.
I'm not really going to argue the health side of things because you're for sure someone that wouldn't even begin to be reasoned with, but as far as aminos go....as long as you're eating a varied healthy diet (which I believe you have said) you should be good. The problem lies when people don't take care of their diet, which they should be doing vegan or not, people just don't care.
And actually yes the SAD diet, for standard American diet, most people are getting more than enough protein. Granted of course if you are lifting or trying to get more muscle or what not, you do need more, but the average person gets more than enough.
The one thing that vegans do need to be careful on is B12. It's fortified in a lot of things, but it wouldn't hurt to take a supplement....
Oh and as far as restricting my child's diet? or making his choices for him? Ya, being a vegan is a personal choice, but it's also a personal choice to eat meat. And people "force" their children to do that. Being a parent is about guiding your child to make the right choices, and when they are little they pretty much do what you do, so it's logical that my child would be vegan since I am. It's also logical that a Christian family would have their child go to a Christian church, because that's what their family does, it's not really forcing until the child is old enough to make up their mind, so once my baby is old enough to make his own decisions then he can tell me what he wants to do in regards to veganism, but until then, he is going to do what I do. Which is what all of our children do, vegan or omnivore. And my pediatrician does know my baby is vegan. Never batted an eye.
Different strokes for different folks.
Oh and OP? make sure your daughter gets a lot of healthy good fats and omegas for brain development...it is crucial in the early years.
That's perfectly fine, I just want to stress the fact that vegans try to push the belief that humans can develop perfectly normally from birth without receiving nutrition from animal sources, that does include human beings. That's just not the case. I'm not talking about the morality of where the animal sources come from or who the milk or animal products were meant for.
Sure it's best that you don't get into talking about essential amino acids because I'm "someone that wouldn't even begin to be reasoned with". Thank you for making condescending sweeping statements about me without even knowing me, that's very mature...
It may be a personal choice to be vegan, but human beings are predators and are born with canine teeth designed to tear through meat, so the fact that human beings eat meat was determined by evolution. You can fight evolution and fight nature, but don't call it a personal choice to consume food that we were evolved to eat and were born to eat.0 -
My baby has been vegan since conception and is 19 months now....he is so far perfect in every way health wise. I've been vegan for almost 7 years.
That said, I am very careful with how we eat, AND he is still breastfed, so he is getting a lot of nutrients from me. Really he doesn't eat a lot of food anyways.
I will have to say that most people get enough protein, that it's rarely an issue, you just need to make sure your diet is varied, we eat a lot of beans, and leafy greens.
And I've based my life changing decisions off of research. Keep researching.
How can your baby be vegan if you're breastfeeding him? Kind of a contradiction. Sounds to me like he's getting most of his diet from animal based sources...namely you.
The point about most people getting enough protein, you were joking right? That's got to be a joke. Most people don't get nearly enough protein. Most people just get barely enough protein so that their muscles don't atrophy on a constant basis, I wouldn't call that getting enough protein.
This is a point that gets brought up a lot, and I know people have already answered for me, but just for myself I would like to answer too. My milk was made FOR my child, and I'm willing giving it to him to grow and to thrive, as he is. Being vegan is about stopping animal exploitation as much as possible. I'm not being exploited by giving my son his own milk that my body has made specifically for him. I understand where the confusion lies so I hope that clears it up for you.
I'm not really going to argue the health side of things because you're for sure someone that wouldn't even begin to be reasoned with, but as far as aminos go....as long as you're eating a varied healthy diet (which I believe you have said) you should be good. The problem lies when people don't take care of their diet, which they should be doing vegan or not, people just don't care.
And actually yes the SAD diet, for standard American diet, most people are getting more than enough protein. Granted of course if you are lifting or trying to get more muscle or what not, you do need more, but the average person gets more than enough.
The one thing that vegans do need to be careful on is B12. It's fortified in a lot of things, but it wouldn't hurt to take a supplement....
Oh and as far as restricting my child's diet? or making his choices for him? Ya, being a vegan is a personal choice, but it's also a personal choice to eat meat. And people "force" their children to do that. Being a parent is about guiding your child to make the right choices, and when they are little they pretty much do what you do, so it's logical that my child would be vegan since I am. It's also logical that a Christian family would have their child go to a Christian church, because that's what their family does, it's not really forcing until the child is old enough to make up their mind, so once my baby is old enough to make his own decisions then he can tell me what he wants to do in regards to veganism, but until then, he is going to do what I do. Which is what all of our children do, vegan or omnivore. And my pediatrician does know my baby is vegan. Never batted an eye.
Different strokes for different folks.
Oh and OP? make sure your daughter gets a lot of healthy good fats and omegas for brain development...it is crucial in the early years.
That's perfectly fine, I just want to stress the fact that vegans try to push the belief that humans can develop perfectly normally from birth without receiving nutrition from animal sources, that does include human beings. That's just not the case. I'm not talking about the morality of where the animal sources come from or who the milk or animal products were meant for.
Sure it's best that you don't get into talking about essential amino acids because I'm "someone that wouldn't even begin to be reasoned with". Thank you for making condescending sweeping statements about me without even knowing me, that's very mature...
It may be a personal choice to be vegan, but human beings are predators and are born with canine teeth designed to tear through meat, so the fact that human beings eat meat was determined by evolution. You can fight evolution and fight nature, but don't call it a personal choice to consume food that we were evolved to eat and were born to eat.
I'm really sorry if that came off as condescending, I really didn't mean it that way. I meant it more in the sense that, you're likely someone that won't change your eating habits and switch to a vegan diet from a few strangers on a forum, so why try to change your mind. I genuinely didn't mean to be rude.
And your right, I do think that human beings DO need something from animal sources, which would be breast milk.
You have to realize and remember, or everyone does rather, that we live in an imperfect world, especially for vegans, it's a non vegan world, we aren't going to live a perfect life, there are going to be things that we do that aren't vegan, I mean hell, driving a car isn't really vegan, there is animal stuff in EVERYTHING, it's just about doing the very best that you can you know?
And I do agree with you in the sense that we did evolve eating meat, of course, and it was a big part of our evolution. We aren't carnivores though, we are omnivores which means that we can survive on plants and animal protein. And part of our evolution means that we are able to use our brains and figure out our own decisions and choices and decide whether or not we could live without eating meat because of animal exploitation and cruelty. Since we can survive not eating it, and help the environment and plants.....why not? For the most part we are only eating animal proteins and byproducts for our appetite. We no longer (in general) need it to survive.
If I am able to survive without something that causes harm, then I will. If you don't want to, you don't have to, and you have no judgment from me. My partner eats meat. I don't. It's his choice, just like it's mine.
Oh oh, one last thing.....since you mentioned toofers....if you look at our teeth...yes we do have two canines....but a lot of our teeth are designed to grind plants. ANNNNNDDDD if you look at the jaw structure of carnivorous animals and compare them to omnivorous animals, or even herbivores, our jaw structure is much more similar to that of a herbivore. Also....I believe that there are specific kinds of acids that are in stomachs that are used to break down animal proteins, and compared to that of carnivores, we are certainly lacking....not to say we can't break it down, because man, our stomachs are pretty intense, but it is much harder for us than it is for true carnivores. But like I said, we are omnivores not carnivores anyways, but I think that most research and theories prove that we are more closely related to herbivores than we are carnivores. 0 -
My ex and my two sons are vegan. They have been vegan since birth and they are perfectly healthy. You just need to make sure it's a well balanced meal and you'll have no problems. They also belong to a vegan play group, so they know other vegan kids and all of them are very healthy. And if you don't believe me, talk to their pediatricians. My boys pediatrician was worried and had periodic blood tests done and she has been pleasantly surprised. She no longer has them tested because she is convinced that they are perfectly healthy.0
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My ex and my two sons are vegan. They have been vegan since birth and they are perfectly healthy. You just need to make sure it's a well balanced meal and you'll have no problems. They also belong to a vegan play group, so they know other vegan kids and all of them are very healthy. And if you don't believe me, talk to their pediatricians. My boys pediatrician was worried and had periodic blood tests done and she has been pleasantly surprised. She no longer has them tested because she is convinced that they are perfectly healthy.
I think it's odd to isolate children from other children based on diet.0 -
I think it's odd to isolate children from other children based on diet.
They are not isolated. i don't know where you get that from. They have plenty of friends who are not vegan in our neighborhood and 1 that is vegetarian. The playgroup is just so they know they are not alone.0 -
I think it's odd to isolate children from other children based on diet.
They are not isolated. i don't know where you get that from. They have plenty of friends who are not vegan in our neighborhood and 1 that is vegetarian. The playgroup is just so they know they are not alone.
Why would a kid think they're alone?0 -
Why would a kid think they're alone?
Vegan children are rare, so it's nice to know that they aren't the only ones.0 -
Early humans have been eating meat for over 2.5 million years. We're omnivores like you said, and opportunists and if it were not for that fact we probably wouldn't be conversing over the internet, we probably would be finding a nice branch to cling to for the night away from predators.My baby has been vegan since conception and is 19 months now....he is so far perfect in every way health wise. I've been vegan for almost 7 years.
That said, I am very careful with how we eat, AND he is still breastfed, so he is getting a lot of nutrients from me. Really he doesn't eat a lot of food anyways.
I will have to say that most people get enough protein, that it's rarely an issue, you just need to make sure your diet is varied, we eat a lot of beans, and leafy greens.
And I've based my life changing decisions off of research. Keep researching.
How can your baby be vegan if you're breastfeeding him? Kind of a contradiction. Sounds to me like he's getting most of his diet from animal based sources...namely you.
The point about most people getting enough protein, you were joking right? That's got to be a joke. Most people don't get nearly enough protein. Most people just get barely enough protein so that their muscles don't atrophy on a constant basis, I wouldn't call that getting enough protein.
This is a point that gets brought up a lot, and I know people have already answered for me, but just for myself I would like to answer too. My milk was made FOR my child, and I'm willing giving it to him to grow and to thrive, as he is. Being vegan is about stopping animal exploitation as much as possible. I'm not being exploited by giving my son his own milk that my body has made specifically for him. I understand where the confusion lies so I hope that clears it up for you.
I'm not really going to argue the health side of things because you're for sure someone that wouldn't even begin to be reasoned with, but as far as aminos go....as long as you're eating a varied healthy diet (which I believe you have said) you should be good. The problem lies when people don't take care of their diet, which they should be doing vegan or not, people just don't care.
And actually yes the SAD diet, for standard American diet, most people are getting more than enough protein. Granted of course if you are lifting or trying to get more muscle or what not, you do need more, but the average person gets more than enough.
The one thing that vegans do need to be careful on is B12. It's fortified in a lot of things, but it wouldn't hurt to take a supplement....
Oh and as far as restricting my child's diet? or making his choices for him? Ya, being a vegan is a personal choice, but it's also a personal choice to eat meat. And people "force" their children to do that. Being a parent is about guiding your child to make the right choices, and when they are little they pretty much do what you do, so it's logical that my child would be vegan since I am. It's also logical that a Christian family would have their child go to a Christian church, because that's what their family does, it's not really forcing until the child is old enough to make up their mind, so once my baby is old enough to make his own decisions then he can tell me what he wants to do in regards to veganism, but until then, he is going to do what I do. Which is what all of our children do, vegan or omnivore. And my pediatrician does know my baby is vegan. Never batted an eye.
Different strokes for different folks.
Oh and OP? make sure your daughter gets a lot of healthy good fats and omegas for brain development...it is crucial in the early years.
That's perfectly fine, I just want to stress the fact that vegans try to push the belief that humans can develop perfectly normally from birth without receiving nutrition from animal sources, that does include human beings. That's just not the case. I'm not talking about the morality of where the animal sources come from or who the milk or animal products were meant for.
Sure it's best that you don't get into talking about essential amino acids because I'm "someone that wouldn't even begin to be reasoned with". Thank you for making condescending sweeping statements about me without even knowing me, that's very mature...
It may be a personal choice to be vegan, but human beings are predators and are born with canine teeth designed to tear through meat, so the fact that human beings eat meat was determined by evolution. You can fight evolution and fight nature, but don't call it a personal choice to consume food that we were evolved to eat and were born to eat.
I'm really sorry if that came off as condescending, I really didn't mean it that way. I meant it more in the sense that, you're likely someone that won't change your eating habits and switch to a vegan diet from a few strangers on a forum, so why try to change your mind. I genuinely didn't mean to be rude.
And your right, I do think that human beings DO need something from animal sources, which would be breast milk.
You have to realize and remember, or everyone does rather, that we live in an imperfect world, especially for vegans, it's a non vegan world, we aren't going to live a perfect life, there are going to be things that we do that aren't vegan, I mean hell, driving a car isn't really vegan, there is animal stuff in EVERYTHING, it's just about doing the very best that you can you know?
And I do agree with you in the sense that we did evolve eating meat, of course, and it was a big part of our evolution. We aren't carnivores though, we are omnivores which means that we can survive on plants and animal protein. And part of our evolution means that we are able to use our brains and figure out our own decisions and choices and decide whether or not we could live without eating meat because of animal exploitation and cruelty. Since we can survive not eating it, and help the environment and plants.....why not? For the most part we are only eating animal proteins and byproducts for our appetite. We no longer (in general) need it to survive.
If I am able to survive without something that causes harm, then I will. If you don't want to, you don't have to, and you have no judgment from me. My partner eats meat. I don't. It's his choice, just like it's mine.
Oh oh, one last thing.....since you mentioned toofers....if you look at our teeth...yes we do have two canines....but a lot of our teeth are designed to grind plants. ANNNNNDDDD if you look at the jaw structure of carnivorous animals and compare them to omnivorous animals, or even herbivores, our jaw structure is much more similar to that of a herbivore. Also....I believe that there are specific kinds of acids that are in stomachs that are used to break down animal proteins, and compared to that of carnivores, we are certainly lacking....not to say we can't break it down, because man, our stomachs are pretty intense, but it is much harder for us than it is for true carnivores. But like I said, we are omnivores not carnivores anyways, but I think that most research and theories prove that we are more closely related to herbivores than we are carnivores.0 -
possibly. But also like I said....most of us are evolved now, and now we can make our own decisions on whether or not to consume animal products.
And my decision is no. I can live, very happily without it. I'm not starving, i'm not unhealthy, i'm pretty freaking happy being vegan, so that is the way I will stay for as long as I choose to do so. And I will continue to encourage others to come over to the dark side, because we do have vegan cookies. and they are delicious.0 -
We're evolved now? You mean our lifestyle and circumstances gives us access to youtube. :smokin:possibly. But also like I said....most of us are evolved now, and now we can make our own decisions on whether or not to consume animal products.
And my decision is no. I can live, very happily without it. I'm not starving, i'm not unhealthy, i'm pretty freaking happy being vegan, so that is the way I will stay for as long as I choose to do so. And I will continue to encourage others to come over to the dark side, because we do have vegan cookies. and they are delicious.0 -
My daughter only wants to eat fruits and veggies for a reason right? sometimes she will eat eggs or chicken but thats it and not very often!
She may have taste preferences, but they really aren't about health. If I could, I'd eat vegan pizza and ice cream for every meal. There's no reason for that other than yum.
One thing that stood out to me was that you love meat and seem to be doing this to help your body. There are definitely people that go vegan for their health, but it isn't necessary. I'm not vegan for health reasons, and I would find it really tough to adhere to if that was my reasoning. I'm not trying to discourage you from going vegan, I love that you are thinking about it. But it does sound like it will be a pretty radical lifestyle change for you. Have you thought about starting with just vegetarianism and buying from ethically cared for animals if the animal rights is a factor? That would eliminate most of the concerns regarding your baby's growth too.
I love being a vegan and wouldn't go back. But your post makes me think that it may be really overwhelming on you and your family to dive right in. If you do, my advice is to do tons of research, for you and for your baby. Get a consult with someone qualified to help you design your baby's plan, and only if you believe you really can stick to it. While food combining in the same meal is no longer seen as necessary to get amino acids, variety throughout the day really is crucial and you won't "stumble" into that. You will have to be ready and confident, and you don't quite sound like you are there yet.
When you do your research, try to sift through the propaganda on both sides. I don't have the info on this as I don't have children, but someone posted that the nutrition association states that it's ok for babies. I would try to get my research from groups such as that one that don't have an agenda. Reading vegan blogs or "vegans aren't natural blogs" will raise some interesting points, but the information will be very biased. I wouldn't put nearly this much thought into telling you this if it was just you. But keeping a baby healthy is a game changer, so it helps to have both sides of the argument to make a truly informed decision.0 -
I second this.All I can say if your young child is going vegan please go see a dietitian that specializes in pediatrics.
Third this. And if you don't, then don't make your kid go vegan. That's potentially harmful.
I WILL be talking with my daughter ped before i make any decisions on her food/diet as i always have! I want her to be as healthy as possible and would not do anything to put her in harm, but i do not see why going vegan would be any harm to her what so ever! Its HEALTHY food, veggies and fruit and beans and other things that we are ment to eat, she dosent really like meat yet anyway sometimes she will eat chicken or eggs but i will be talking with her dr before i give her or stop giving her anything.
I'm glad that you will be taking your child to someone more knowledgable than you and some flaky chick on the Internet.
Of course she doesn't really like meat yet. She's a baby. But she won't be one forever - God willing.0 -
Why would a kid think they're alone?
Vegan children are rare, so it's nice to know that they aren't the only ones.
Only if diet is made to be a huge part of their identity. That doesn't seem healthy at that age.0 -
My daughter only wants to eat fruits and veggies for a reason right? sometimes she will eat eggs or chicken but thats it and not very often!
She may have taste preferences, but they really aren't about health. If I could, I'd eat vegan pizza and ice cream for every meal. There's no reason for that other than yum.
One thing that stood out to me was that you love meat and seem to be doing this to help your body. There are definitely people that go vegan for their health, but it isn't necessary. I'm not vegan for health reasons, and I would find it really tough to adhere to if that was my reasoning. I'm not trying to discourage you from going vegan, I love that you are thinking about it. But it does sound like it will be a pretty radical lifestyle change for you. Have you thought about starting with just vegetarianism and buying from ethically cared for animals if the animal rights is a factor? That would eliminate most of the concerns regarding your baby's growth too.
I love being a vegan and wouldn't go back. But your post makes me think that it may be really overwhelming on you and your family to dive right in. If you do, my advice is to do tons of research, for you and for your baby. Get a consult with someone qualified to help you design your baby's plan, and only if you believe you really can stick to it. While food combining in the same meal is no longer seen as necessary to get amino acids, variety throughout the day really is crucial and you won't "stumble" into that. You will have to be ready and confident, and you don't quite sound like you are there yet.
When you do your research, try to sift through the propaganda on both sides. I don't have the info on this as I don't have children, but someone posted that the nutrition association states that it's ok for babies. I would try to get my research from groups such as that one that don't have an agenda. Reading vegan blogs or "vegans aren't natural blogs" will raise some interesting points, but the information will be very biased. I wouldn't put nearly this much thought into telling you this if it was just you. But keeping a baby healthy is a game changer, so it helps to have both sides of the argument to make a truly informed decision.
I love this response.
Very thoughtful. :flowerforyou:0
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