Vegan?

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Replies

  • MapleFlavouredMaiden
    MapleFlavouredMaiden Posts: 595 Member


    Yes, I was making that point. Humans are animals. Human byproducts are animal byproducts so by definition a baby that is breastfeeding is not vegan. This refers back to my point that animal based proteins have a better amino acid profile for muscle synthesis and contain more of the essential amino acids that a growing baby needs. Human breast milk falls into this category.

    Actually, having a diet with a variety of grains, legumes, and vegetables can provide all of the essential amino acids our bodies require.

    The amount of grains, legumes, and vegetables that would be required to equal the essential amino acid intake required for a baby would be absurd, especially when the concentration of those amino acids is very high in breast milk for the reason that a growing baby SHOULD be drinking breast milk. Also, a baby can only consume so much volume in their stomach in a given day. I'm not debating that it's possible to get the required amino acids from non animal sources for an adult because if you eat enough you can get there but it's a completely different story for a baby.

    ^^ This guy knows his shiz.
  • kmart919
    kmart919 Posts: 20 Member
    TBH, very few of the posted responses were rude. Ones that could be considered rude were very mild. First off, let me clarify that I am not vegan nor vegetarian, but i dont eat seafood. For some strange reason, when people hear this they try to get me to eat seafood or cannot fathom that it grosses me out and a pointless inquisition follows. I can only imagine what some people say to vegetarians and vegans. I mention this because if you thought the responses here were "rude" you're gonna to need to grow a thicker skin for when people will inevitably question you IRL. Personally, idgaf about what anyone else eats. I've got way too much going on in my own life to micromanage the diets of others. (since I started typing this some other, more rude comments have been made, but they're still pretty tame for this site.)

    People recommending that you see a DIETICIAN specializing in pediatrics are not being rude. They are 100% correct in recommending this. The nutritional needs for growing children are drastically different from that of adults. Doctors, in general, do have a significant amount of ignorance regarding nutrition. Contrary to what someone else said, this by NO means means a doctor is ignorant, but merely the lack in depth knowledge on the topic and this is because, unless they have personally taken extra steps, the knowledge they receive regarding nutrition in med school is minimal. After speaking with your pediatrician i'd actually ask them if they could recommend a dietician (not nutritionist...that means nothing). Especially since this is a new lifestyle for you, a dietician would be a very valuable resource in learning how to meet the nutritional requirements of your entire family. Since you say the health of you and your family is your main motivator, you shouldn't be finding comments along these lines offensive since they are truly to help you receive the best outcomes health wise. You said yourself that you have no idea where to start. A dietician is a good place, after speaking with your doctors.

    A healthy, BALANCED vegan diet can be achieved, but it will require *researching facts* and consulting with professionals is recommended if it's new to you. Anecdotes, may be helpful, but id really maybe look to them for meal ideas and maybe how they overcame some of the challenges with the transition vs what your family may require nutritionally. I see that you stated that you dont see how it could be harmful because it's HEALTHY foods, but that concerns me. Vegan does not automatically equal healthy. Technically, you can have a diet completely comprised of pasta, potatoes, carrots and Oreos and be considered vegan, but you'd *severly be lacking in nutrients* and you wouldn't be providing your body with all that it NEEDS to be *healthy*. I'm not saying this is what your diet will be like, it's just an example, because it becomes very easy to rely on starches when trying to go veg or vegan. Similarly, an omnivorous diet doesn't automatically mean any more or less healthy than a veg or vegan diet. It really will all boil down to how balanced your diet is in providing required nutrition. Also, your daughter's food preferences will change as she grows so I would not use the fact the she currently prefers fruits and veg as a REASON for going vegan. It might make transition for her easier, once ok'd by her md and a balanced diet can be prepared for her, but certainly shouldn't be a deciding factor when making such large lifestyle change.

    Someone mentioned easing into it and I think that's a good suggestion. Omnivore to vegan is a DRASTIC change. Maybe decrease your meat consumption. Maybe finish up what you have in the house already. Then maybe transition to vegetarian. Add in some vegan meals. Once you're ready & have obtained adquate knowledge and education you can transition to a vegan diet and be making wonderfully healthy, varied and delicious meals. Many things some people wouldn't even consider might not be vegan aren't, so that's another thing to keep in mind. Most gelatinous products (jello, gummy snacks) are made from gelatin (collagen) (I'm sure there are vegan alternatives though), some red food coloring is made from beetles, items can be cooked in or with chicken stock (for example I cook my quinoa with chicken broth), milk/eggs are ingredients in so, so many products, if you really want to be strict about it, capsules for medicine are often made from gelatin and tablets or capsules may contain lactose, etc etc. Vegan is a lifestyle and the welfare if the animals is a huge part if the lifestyle.

    Slightly off topic, re: that meme about drinking milk...uh..I still don't think it sounds creepy, but ..uh..good try? That's the type of post that give vegans a bad name...one radical person/statement/comment/meme/whatever with an inability to accept that others choose to eat a different diet than them overshadows the many, many vegans who are rational, open-minded people who understand that there are different choices for everyone and accept that as part of the beauty and diversity of life. If one want sto EDUCATE with facts, not propaganda, I respect that, but if theyre out to shame or guilt others because of their dietary choices, then it's time to stop acting childish and act like the adult that I know is hiding deep inside of them.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,159 Member
    To all the bros in here: I get it, you're responding to the rampant pseudoscience in the "health vegan" movement - those people piss me off too! Just like all the annoying diet-related myths out there that have nothing to do with veganism: 8 glasses of water, breakfast speeds up your metabolism, carbs are the devil! We see the same myths in these forums day after day.

    However, there is plenty of science-based evidence in support of plant diets. I have posted a couple but there are TONS that are readily available if you just do the research.




    Furthermore, I will continue to remind people that the most important part of veganism is about the animals.

    Mercy For Animals is one of the major undercover investigators in factory farms. You can see their investigations in the link provide, including undercover footage.

    ****Trigger Warning: graphic violence**** please do not click on the following link without considering your self-care.
    The following link contains images including:

    -sick and injured cows suffering from open wounds and infections, and workers dragging cows by their fragile legs and necks using chains attached to a tractor

    -sadistic animal abuse, including workers throwing a bowling ball at a pig's head, and kicking, throwing, hitting, body slamming, and otherwise torturing pigs

    -slamming conscious piglets headfirst against the ground, ripping off their tails and testicles without painkillers, hitting, throwing, and dropping pigs and piglets, and confining pregnant pigs in filthy, fly-infested gestation crates

    -inside tiny wire battery cages, workers smashing in the heads of baby birds and tossing live chicks into trash bags to suffocate, and dead hens left to rot in cages with live birds still laying eggs

    http://www.mercyforanimals.org/investigations.aspx

    I never said it wasn't possible to be healthy eating vegan, of course it is. It's harder to get the required protein and essential amino acids and I'm sure it's harder to get enough fat if you're eating vegan but it's definitely possible if you're willing to put in the effort in your diet. The thing that upsets me is when someone decides to put their infant on a restrictive diet because of their own views, and yes Veganism and plant based diets are restrictive diets by definition. I have nothing against any adult choosing to eat vegan, that's a personal choice for you, and as long as you don't bash me for choosing to eat meat, eat cheese, and drink milk, which is a personal choice for me, then we don't have a problem.
  • thatpixichick
    thatpixichick Posts: 77 Member
    On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby :smile:

    e3356c1209b276990637d415ffbdcd6f.jpg


    This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.

    ...What?
    Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.

    To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.

    I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!
  • live2dream
    live2dream Posts: 820 Member
    I didn´t like meat as a child as well... Now I like it on ocassion. So many kids don´t like meat when they are young.

    I don´t belive in the vegan lifestyle so I cannot recomment anything to you. For me it´s an unnatural diet for human kind. However being vegan became pretty "in" thru the last years. And I think what is true is that if you choose out of two extremes:

    - eating meat/animal products everyday (like some people in western societies do)
    - eating no meat/animal products at all

    the second option might be rather healthy. But in general 1 or 2 times meat a week is nothing bad for you... Of course you need to make sure where you get your meat from. The industrial production is no good meat source....

    And a vegan diet doesn´t give you all the B-vitamins you need. You will have to take nutrition pills for that. Eating more raw fruit and veggies makes sense. but all extremes are usually not good.

    Just my 5 cents

    Some people think the ‘plant-based, whole foods diet’ is extreme. Half a million people a year will have their chests opened up and a vein taken from their leg and sewn onto their coronary artery. Some people would call that, extreme.

    - Caldwell Esselstyn Jr., M.D.
  • kennie2
    kennie2 Posts: 1,189 Member
    I personally eat a mainly vegan high fruit based diet and I love it,
    will most definitely be raising my kids vegan too
  • peabean26
    peabean26 Posts: 78 Member
    Animal domestication is relatively recent, with the most extreme estimate of animal domestication starting around 9,000BC. More conservative estimates are on the order of 5,000BC. Animal domestication, and farming, are not things that have been done throughout human history. Drinking milk is relatively new, which may explain why many adult humans are lactose intolerant.
  • dayone987
    dayone987 Posts: 645 Member
    well said, kmart 919
  • thatpixichick
    thatpixichick Posts: 77 Member
    To all the bros in here: I get it, you're responding to the rampant pseudoscience in the "health vegan" movement - those people piss me off too! Just like all the annoying diet-related myths out there that have nothing to do with veganism: 8 glasses of water, breakfast speeds up your metabolism, carbs are the devil! We see the same myths in these forums day after day.

    However, there is plenty of science-based evidence in support of plant diets. I have posted a couple but there are TONS that are readily available if you just do the research.




    Furthermore, I will continue to remind people that the most important part of veganism is about the animals.

    Mercy For Animals is one of the major undercover investigators in factory farms. You can see their investigations in the link provide, including undercover footage.

    ****Trigger Warning: graphic violence**** please do not click on the following link without considering your self-care.
    The following link contains images including:

    -sick and injured cows suffering from open wounds and infections, and workers dragging cows by their fragile legs and necks using chains attached to a tractor

    -sadistic animal abuse, including workers throwing a bowling ball at a pig's head, and kicking, throwing, hitting, body slamming, and otherwise torturing pigs

    -slamming conscious piglets headfirst against the ground, ripping off their tails and testicles without painkillers, hitting, throwing, and dropping pigs and piglets, and confining pregnant pigs in filthy, fly-infested gestation crates

    -inside tiny wire battery cages, workers smashing in the heads of baby birds and tossing live chicks into trash bags to suffocate, and dead hens left to rot in cages with live birds still laying eggs

    http://www.mercyforanimals.org/investigations.aspx

    I never said it wasn't possible to be healthy eating vegan, of course it is. It's harder to get the required protein and essential amino acids and I'm sure it's harder to get enough fat if you're eating vegan but it's definitely possible if you're willing to put in the effort in your diet. The thing that upsets me is when someone decides to put their infant on a restrictive diet because of their own views, and yes Veganism and plant based diets are restrictive diets by definition. I have nothing against any adult choosing to eat vegan, that's a personal choice for you, and as long as you don't bash me for choosing to eat meat, eat cheese, and drink milk, which is a personal choice for me, then we don't have a problem.

    Oh, and I definitely agree with you on this one AJ_G. I wouldn't force any diet on my child, I'd leave it entirely up to them to decide as and when they're ready, same with religion and any other personal choice.
  • jeridith
    jeridith Posts: 68
    My baby has been vegan since conception and is 19 months now....he is so far perfect in every way health wise. I've been vegan for almost 7 years.

    That said, I am very careful with how we eat, AND he is still breastfed, so he is getting a lot of nutrients from me. Really he doesn't eat a lot of food anyways.

    I will have to say that most people get enough protein, that it's rarely an issue, you just need to make sure your diet is varied, we eat a lot of beans, and leafy greens.

    And I've based my life changing decisions off of research. :) Keep researching.

    How can your baby be vegan if you're breastfeeding him? Kind of a contradiction. Sounds to me like he's getting most of his diet from animal based sources...namely you.

    Ha! I was wondering the same thing... :huh:

    Just a point, if momma isn't drinking cow's milk then baby is not getting any lactose. So if momma is vegan, essentially baby is vegan too. Unless you are making the point that momma is an animal so breastmilk is an animal byproduct...?

    And before anyone blasts this post.... I have a background in nutrition, child development, and I am a former human milk tech for a local hospital. I did my homework on this one :)

    Yes, I was making that point. Humans are animals. Human byproducts are animal byproducts so by definition a baby that is breastfeeding is not vegan. This refers back to my point that animal based proteins have a better amino acid profile for muscle synthesis and contain more of the essential amino acids that a growing baby needs. Human breast milk falls into this category.

    LOL drinking milk from another species is not vegan because it is exploiting an animal who's milk was supposed to go to her babies and those babies are killed so a human can drink the milk. But drinking milk from your own species is completely normal. All species of animals drink breast milk until they are weaned. When you are an adult, there is absolutely no need for it.

    I'm sure you probably didn't really mean to lump every single milk drinker in the entire world into the animal abuser crowd, but just in case you did, a little bit of information so as to broaden your horizons. My cow is a pet: loved, scratched, coddled, and petted. She keeps her babies and we share the milk until such time as the calf is weaned (which ALL bovines, even wild ones eventually do), then yes, we do get all the milk, until the next baby comes along. And there are many such evil milk drinkers as we are, whose source of milk is seen as the lifeblood and most necessary part of their ecosystem, so please don't make such overarching comments about an entire group of people. That would sorta be like me saying vegans are stupid... If you get my drift.
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby :smile:

    e3356c1209b276990637d415ffbdcd6f.jpg


    This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.

    ...What?
    Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.

    To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.

    I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!

    The problem with this typical vegan argument is that all farmed animals are equated with factory farming. There ARE other methods of raising cows that aren't like that, and obtaining the by-products from those animals are becoming far more popular. People are becoming more aware of those issues and completely denouncing all types of animal husbandry doesn't help your case or cause.
  • thatpixichick
    thatpixichick Posts: 77 Member
    I'm sure you probably didn't really mean to lump every single milk drinker in the entire world into the animal abuser crowd, but just in case you did, a little bit of information so as to broaden your horizons. My cow is a pet: loved, scratched, coddled, and petted. She keeps her babies and we share the milk until such time as the calf is weaned (which ALL bovines, even wild ones eventually do), then yes, we do get all the milk, until the next baby comes along. And there are many such evil milk drinkers as we are, whose source of milk is seen as the lifeblood and most necessary part of their ecosystem, so please don't make such overarching comments about an entire group of people. That would sorta be like me saying vegans are stupid... If you get my drift.

    :flowerforyou:
  • thatpixichick
    thatpixichick Posts: 77 Member
    On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby :smile:

    e3356c1209b276990637d415ffbdcd6f.jpg


    This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.

    ...What?
    Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.

    To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.

    I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!

    The problem with this typical vegan argument is that all farmed animals are equated with factory farming. There ARE other methods of raising cows that aren't like that, and obtaining the by-products from those animals are becoming far more popular. People are becoming more aware of those issues and completely denouncing all types of animal husbandry doesn't help your case or cause.

    Of course you can get milk by other, kinder methods! But the eggs, milk, etc in your typical packed/boxed foods or food you order at restaurants unfortunately can't be trusted to be from the same kind sources.

    I would be eating the eggs from my partner's father's ducks if I didn't get a severe case of food poisoning from eggs shortly before going vegan, because I know those little girls are beyond happy and loved :smile:
  • redwoodbsq1
    redwoodbsq1 Posts: 30 Member
    All I can say if your young child is going vegan please go see a dietitian that specializes in pediatrics.
    I second this.

    Third this. And if you don't, then don't make your kid go vegan. That's potentially harmful.

    I WILL be talking with my daughter ped before i make any decisions on her food/diet as i always have! I want her to be as healthy as possible and would not do anything to put her in harm, but i do not see why going vegan would be any harm to her what so ever! Its HEALTHY food, veggies and fruit and beans and other things that we are ment to eat, she dosent really like meat yet anyway sometimes she will eat chicken or eggs but i will be talking with her dr before i give her or stop giving her anything.

    I would go see vegan doctors and read resources on raising vegan children. If her doctor isn't vegan they will likely have a lot of ignorance about plant-based diets.

    I agree with this. Being a veggie for years now, I realized that lots of people just like to **** on veggies. I'm sure you've notice this in the thread. :) It takes courage to stand out from the norm and go on your own way; lots of people without that courage will tell you that you're being crazy.... that's part of the their defense mechanism when they see something 'abnormal'. I think Bowling for Soup said it best - High School Never Ends. While shutting the meaningful replies out is silly, try to tune out the haters who are going to hate no matter what.

    That goes for your doctor to. Many doctors are worth squat. Some are worth their weight in gold. Some never listen to you; some are perceptive as hell. Make sure you're getting the best advice you can, then get a second opinion. See what keeps ringing as true to your internal self.

    And WELCOME to the veggie club - It's yummier than you think! :)
  • MapleFlavouredMaiden
    MapleFlavouredMaiden Posts: 595 Member
    On the breastfeeding point.. No animals are exploited in order for the baby to drink milk from it's own mother, it's natural for a species to drink the milk of it's parent while in infancy. It isn't natural to artificially impregnate other species and steal the milk intended for their baby :smile:

    e3356c1209b276990637d415ffbdcd6f.jpg


    This is mental. It is incredibly natural. We've been doing it as a species for hundreds of thousands of years.

    ...What?
    Just because we've been doing it for ages doesn't make it natural at all, it's just something we've learnt to do. Seriously, what creep looked at a cow's udder and went "Yum, I wanna suck on that!". More to the point, what other animal enslaves another species for it's milk or eggs? No other species treats others the way humans do.

    To be honest, if it were that people had their own cow and she naturally got pregnant, and the family decided to have some of her milk for nutritional reasons, without her calf missing out, then I can get on board with that. But the modern factory farming manner of obtaining milk is so unnatural it's gross, right from the artificial insemination down to the cow's infant being taken from her within a day or two of birthing it.

    I respect your decision to be an omnivore, just don't tell me the way we farm animals is natural. It ain't!

    Well, aside from your obvious lack of education, farming animals and drinking other species' milk is what has made our species so successful. If you'd rather go back to being a primate and eating mostly fruit (they still eat meat too by the way), then maybe that's more "natural" to you. There are plenty of options for less cruel ways to get milk. For me, I know that eating meat and dairy and eggs is too important to my health to give up for any reason. And just in case any vegans think that their diet is more compassionate, you should know that it's not. There are plenty of other animals that are killed and displaced from vegetable and soy farms. There's just no way around it. The best you can do is to choose ALL of your food as wisely as you can. Local, sustainable, organic.
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 2,009 Member

    Being a veggie for years now, I realized that lots of people just like to **** on veggies. I'm sure you've notice this in the thread. :) It takes courage to stand out from the norm and go on your own way; lots of people without that courage will tell you that you're being crazy.... that's part of the their defense mechanism when they see something 'abnormal'. I think Bowling for Soup said it best - High School Never Ends. While shutting the meaningful replies out is silly, try to tune out the haters who are going to hate no matter what.

    That goes for your doctor to. Many doctors are worth squat. Some are worth their weight in gold. Some never listen to you; some are perceptive as hell. Make sure you're getting the best advice you can, then get a second opinion. See what keeps ringing as true to your internal self.

    And WELCOME to the veggie club - It's yummier than you think! :)
    This!!!
  • live2dream
    live2dream Posts: 820 Member
    My baby has been vegan since conception and is 19 months now....he is so far perfect in every way health wise. I've been vegan for almost 7 years.

    That said, I am very careful with how we eat, AND he is still breastfed, so he is getting a lot of nutrients from me. Really he doesn't eat a lot of food anyways.

    I will have to say that most people get enough protein, that it's rarely an issue, you just need to make sure your diet is varied, we eat a lot of beans, and leafy greens.

    And I've based my life changing decisions off of research. :) Keep researching.

    How can your baby be vegan if you're breastfeeding him? Kind of a contradiction. Sounds to me like he's getting most of his diet from animal based sources...namely you.

    Ha! I was wondering the same thing... :huh:

    Just a point, if momma isn't drinking cow's milk then baby is not getting any lactose. So if momma is vegan, essentially baby is vegan too. Unless you are making the point that momma is an animal so breastmilk is an animal byproduct...?

    And before anyone blasts this post.... I have a background in nutrition, child development, and I am a former human milk tech for a local hospital. I did my homework on this one :)

    Yes, I was making that point. Humans are animals. Human byproducts are animal byproducts so by definition a baby that is breastfeeding is not vegan. This refers back to my point that animal based proteins have a better amino acid profile for muscle synthesis and contain more of the essential amino acids that a growing baby needs. Human breast milk falls into this category.

    LOL drinking milk from another species is not vegan because it is exploiting an animal who's milk was supposed to go to her babies and those babies are killed so a human can drink the milk. But drinking milk from your own species is completely normal. All species of animals drink breast milk until they are weaned. When you are an adult, there is absolutely no need for it.

    I'm sure you probably didn't really mean to lump every single milk drinker in the entire world into the animal abuser crowd, but just in case you did, a little bit of information so as to broaden your horizons. My cow is a pet: loved, scratched, coddled, and petted. She keeps her babies and we share the milk until such time as the calf is weaned (which ALL bovines, even wild ones eventually do), then yes, we do get all the milk, until the next baby comes along. And there are many such evil milk drinkers as we are, whose source of milk is seen as the lifeblood and most necessary part of their ecosystem, so please don't make such overarching comments about an entire group of people. That would sorta be like me saying vegans are stupid... If you get my drift.

    Sorry if I came across that way. I know most milk drinkers are not evil, they just don't know the implications of what they are doing. In your case, that is certainly better than factory farming, but I'm curious... what happens to the calves? Do they get eaten as veal? Most people don't drink their cat or dog's milk and they are their pets, so it just seems odd that cows are treated differently. Most people would not have the urge to drink the cat or dog's milk so why would they have the urge to drink the cows? I would love to have a cow as a pet. But I would treat them like a dog or cat and not milk them after their babies are weaned.

    Now, I'm not in an American bubble and don't know how it is in other parts of the world. I've traveled to over 35 countries and seen they really do need it to survive in some cases...where they are in the middle of a desert and drink camel milk for instance. But for those of us in 1st world countries that drink obscene amounts of milk and meat from factory farmed animals- it's wrecking the environment and killing billions of animals per year for no reason when we have so many alternatives here.
  • Blue801
    Blue801 Posts: 442
    Most people don't drink their cat or dog's milk and they are their pets, so it just seems odd that cows are treated differently. Most people would not have the urge to drink the cat or dog's milk so why would they have the urge to drink the cows? I would love to have a cow as a pet. But I would treat them like a dog or cat and not milk them after their babies are weaned.

    Thank! Omg that was hands down the funniest thing I've read in a while. LoL Seriously?! All I could do after that was imagine someone trying to milk a little kitty teet. :laugh: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    Most people don't drink their cat or dog's milk and they are their pets, so it just seems odd that cows are treated differently. Most people would not have the urge to drink the cat or dog's milk so why would they have the urge to drink the cows? I would love to have a cow as a pet. But I would treat them like a dog or cat and not milk them after their babies are weaned.

    Thank! Omg that was hands down the funniest thing I've read in a while. LoL Seriously?! All I could do after that was imagine someone trying to milk a little kitty teet. :laugh: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:

    Most people spay their animals anyway so it'd be hard to get milk from the average pet cat.. :laugh:

    My cat would kill the **** out of me if I tried to milk him. Also because he's a dude. :laugh:
  • jade_222
    jade_222 Posts: 147 Member
    Hi, I was vegetarian for 15 years and did a year and a half as a vegan. I actually tried twice to become vegan, I failed miserably the first time because I didn't do much research. The second time I prepared. Take a few months to learn about becoming vegan and also to start switching out your groceries.

    I bought the complete idiots guide to becoming Vegan and found it very helpful. I will note that eating healthy as a vegan is a lot of work in the beginning and that you should be as prepared as possible, also be ready for slip ups, especially when eating out anywhere. Did you know that there is beef juice in Trident Splash gum? That some sugar is made white by being run through charcoal animal bones? So do you cut out all refined sugar or take the time to find out which companies use the animal bone process or the plant charcoal process? Brown sugar doesn't work either because it's just white sugar with molasses. Also some alcohols use animal fat for clarity. There is so much to learn when becoming vegan and it will boggle your mind when you find out what animal products are in things.

    I would suggest that you take your time and just test it out, it's a big change for just one person much less a whole family. I started eating meat when I became pregnant because I knew I didn't have what it took to eat properly. MyFitnessPal has helped change that so I'm pretty sure I'll go back to being vegetarian.

    I guess the biggest thing is, if this is something you really want for your family and believe in, you'll make it happen, and if not then maybe you'll try being a vegetarian or still eating meat with a focus on frutis and veggies. Either way good luck and my biggest advice is prepare, read as much as you possibly can, not just to be sure it's the healthiest choice but to ensure success because it is not an easy transition.