IIFYM Not a diet?

Sarauk2sf

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

I want chocolate everyday and add it to my diary when I prelog before I log my lunch and dinner....

I have yet to stall...ever...5lbs from maintenance...potentially 11lbs from BF% goals...

Not sure I follow your logic...

right. I'm talking about BEYOND those goals. are you an athlete? would you consider your athletic performance "elite"?

Why, would you?


And mine actually is according to some measures for my given sport

And I eat ice cream every day

And I am lean

cwsreddy

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

You may not be able to fit a piece of cake in your diet everyday to get to a very low BF%, especially if you are a smaller female, however, it is definitely do'able for people to be able to do it, be lean, and to perform to a high level. Also, if you are extremely active, it makes it easier.

agreed.

Now I am confused. I was disagreeing with you - and you are agreeing with me.

you weren't disagreeing. it's absolutely possible to do, however it DOES require more meticulous effort and attention paid to the food you eat over the course of the day if you want to do the cake as well and want to maintain that elite performance.

Sure, some athletes eat tons of junk food - we've been down this road so I'll nip it in the bud right now - but they know exactly WHAT, WHY, and HOW they're eating at any given time in the exact ways that it will benefit their performance. Nothing is an accident when you're getting paid $25 mill a year.

jonnythan

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

I want chocolate everyday and add it to my diary when I prelog before I log my lunch and dinner....

I have yet to stall...ever...5lbs from maintenance...potentially 11lbs from BF% goals...

Not sure I follow your logic...

right. I'm talking about BEYOND those goals. are you an athlete? would you consider your athletic performance "elite"?

Sara's performance is absolutely elite.

I know a few elite athletes, and you would consider their diets extremely unclean. Fast food, cake and cookies, etc., pretty much every day.

cwsreddy

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

I want chocolate everyday and add it to my diary when I prelog before I log my lunch and dinner....

I have yet to stall...ever...5lbs from maintenance...potentially 11lbs from BF% goals...

Not sure I follow your logic...

right. I'm talking about BEYOND those goals. are you an athlete? would you consider your athletic performance "elite"?

Sara's performance is absolutely elite.

I know a few elite athletes, and you would consider their diets extremely unclean. Fast food, cake and cookies, etc., pretty much every day.

see above.

cwsreddy

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

I want chocolate everyday and add it to my diary when I prelog before I log my lunch and dinner....

I have yet to stall...ever...5lbs from maintenance...potentially 11lbs from BF% goals...

Not sure I follow your logic...

right. I'm talking about BEYOND those goals. are you an athlete? would you consider your athletic performance "elite"?

Sara's performance is absolutely elite.

I know a few elite athletes, and you would consider their diets extremely unclean. Fast food, cake and cookies, etc., pretty much every day.

also was not talking to sara. plz read more closely.

UsedToBeHusky

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

You may not be able to fit a piece of cake in your diet everyday to get to a very low BF%, especially if you are a smaller female, however, it is definitely do'able for people to be able to do it, be lean, and to perform to a high level. Also, if you are extremely active, it makes it easier.

agreed.

Now I am confused. I was disagreeing with you - and you are agreeing with me.

you weren't disagreeing. it's absolutely possible to do, however it DOES require more meticulous effort and attention paid to the food you eat over the course of the day if you want to do the cake as well and want to maintain that elite performance.

Sure, some athletes eat tons of junk food - we've been down this road so I'll nip it in the bud right now - but they know exactly WHAT, WHY, and HOW they're eating at any given time in the exact ways that it will benefit their performance. Nothing is an accident when you're getting paid $25 mill a year.

Okay, but I don't need to be paid $25 mil a year to do the exact same thing with my diet.

jonnythan

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

I want chocolate everyday and add it to my diary when I prelog before I log my lunch and dinner....

I have yet to stall...ever...5lbs from maintenance...potentially 11lbs from BF% goals...

Not sure I follow your logic...

right. I'm talking about BEYOND those goals. are you an athlete? would you consider your athletic performance "elite"?

Sara's performance is absolutely elite.

I know a few elite athletes, and you would consider their diets extremely unclean. Fast food, cake and cookies, etc., pretty much every day.

also was not talking to sara. plz read more closely.

Not really sure what you're getting at. You imply that eating cake every day is incompatible with elite performance, but you're qualifying it by saying that those that perform at an elite level and eat cake get away with it because they plan their food intake carefully.

So you're really saying nothing. Eating cake every day is OK if your overall diet is in line.

lightmouse

To me, it means you can have a treat each day if it fits your macros, not that you can eat as many "naughty" things as you want. If you did that you'd never hit your macros anyway. If I've had a really clean, low-ish carb day I know I can have some ice cream or cookies in the evening if I fancy it without screwing up my goals Because of that, I don't see it as a diet as nothing is out of bounds, so it works for me.

Sarauk2sf

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

You may not be able to fit a piece of cake in your diet everyday to get to a very low BF%, especially if you are a smaller female, however, it is definitely do'able for people to be able to do it, be lean, and to perform to a high level. Also, if you are extremely active, it makes it easier.

agreed.

Now I am confused. I was disagreeing with you - and you are agreeing with me.

you weren't disagreeing. it's absolutely possible to do, however it DOES require more meticulous effort and attention paid to the food you eat over the course of the day if you want to do the cake as well and want to maintain that elite performance.

Sure, some athletes eat tons of junk food - we've been down this road so I'll nip it in the bud right now - but they know exactly WHAT, WHY, and HOW they're eating at any given time in the exact ways that it will benefit their performance. Nothing is an accident when you're getting paid $25 mill a year.

Meticulous - not really.

cwsreddy

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

So the advice given by others will only work for the vast majority of people, and your philosophy applies only to the elite athletes of the world, of which you are not a member.


So noted.

huh? did you not read the first line? how is my advice not suited to the majority?

also why are my goals are less legitimate than anyone else's?

Just noting that the advice you've argued against for so long now apparently isn't "filling your body with toxins and poison." Glad to see you've come around.

I very much encourage you to chase after your goals. I'm doing the same. But you should probably understand that the plan necessary for you to become one of the top athletes in the world is not very useful to a middle aged woman who wants to drop a few pounds and get in better shape.

Good luck in all your goals. Most people don't share them. So when you give advice, think of your intended audience, not just you.

I do. I challenge you to find a single thing I've said that isn't applicable to the intended audience

jonnythan

Just noting that the advice you've argued against for so long now apparently isn't "filling your body with toxins and poison." Glad to see you've come around.

That's a great point. Coach's beginnings around here were much... different.

SezxyStef

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

I want chocolate everyday and add it to my diary when I prelog before I log my lunch and dinner....

I have yet to stall...ever...5lbs from maintenance...potentially 11lbs from BF% goals...

Not sure I follow your logic...

right. I'm talking about BEYOND those goals. are you an athlete? would you consider your athletic performance "elite"?

Sara's performance is absolutely elite.

I know a few elite athletes, and you would consider their diets extremely unclean. Fast food, cake and cookies, etc., pretty much every day.

also was not talking to sara. plz read more closely.

No that was to me but Sara whom I admire a great deal and "creep" her diary a lot to see what she does eat to get where she is, is a great example of why I changed to IIFYM...

Will I get to elite in my lifting...maybe...but I will do it with ice cream, chocolate and diet coke beside me.

cwsreddy

daaaamn you beat me to it. yes. if chocolate cake is your vice, and you desperately need to have it every day, and if having it every day will help you eat whole foods and stay on track, then by all means chow down.

for the average person looking to lose weight it's about sustainability to reach a healthier place than they're currently at.

my philosophy has always been that. I just ALSO feel that once you reach a certain point, your health/weight/body fat % will stall unless you get more meticulous. Most people aren't interested in moving beyond that plateau, and they don't need to be. I'm talking about athletic, extremely active people looking to perform at an (dare I say it) elite level.

I'm not there yet, and I want to be.

You may not be able to fit a piece of cake in your diet everyday to get to a very low BF%, especially if you are a smaller female, however, it is definitely do'able for people to be able to do it, be lean, and to perform to a high level. Also, if you are extremely active, it makes it easier.

agreed.

Now I am confused. I was disagreeing with you - and you are agreeing with me.

you weren't disagreeing. it's absolutely possible to do, however it DOES require more meticulous effort and attention paid to the food you eat over the course of the day if you want to do the cake as well and want to maintain that elite performance.

Sure, some athletes eat tons of junk food - we've been down this road so I'll nip it in the bud right now - but they know exactly WHAT, WHY, and HOW they're eating at any given time in the exact ways that it will benefit their performance. Nothing is an accident when you're getting paid $25 mill a year.

Okay, but I don't need to be paid $25 mil a year to do the exact same thing with my diet.

agreed. only brought it up pre-emptively because I knew johnny was gonna swoop in with the "Michael Phelps!" line of crap - which he did.

jonnythan

agreed. only brought it up pre-emptively because I knew johnny was gonna swoop in with the "Michael Phelps!" line of crap - which he did.

No. You specifically asked about elite performing athletes eating junk food. You brought it up. You are the first one in this thread to reference elite athletes, period. I also didn't say anything about Michael Phelps. You were also the first one to specifically mention highly-paid professionals. The only people I even mentioned were elite athletes I personally know.

JoRocka

But they learn to over time... and they don't learn that by being afraid of food. They learn how to use good judgment about their diet by educating themselves about nutrition, and practicing moderation.

Your "clean-eating" mantra generates fear and causes people to distance themselves from food rather than learning about it.

I think it has been established time and time again, on the forums, and particularly with you, that "clean-eaters" and IIFYM'ers are essentially eating by a similar method (80% whole foods/20% processed or "dirty"). IIFYM'ers just simply take a different approach with consideration to the psychological component, or the relationship with food.

We don't fear eating food... we just make certain it doesn't get out of line!

this is great post.


also

you are lucky then...I have to endure the "clean eating" talk everytime someone sees me eating a cookie or a chocolate bar...

I get so sick of it to be honest...

"you can't eat that, you are getting healthy or are on a diet or are lifting or it's processed it make you fat..."

have you come up with a good snark to this?

I get this occasionally and I usually just tell them I can eat whatever the eff I want when I'm bulking. But it's mostly not worth the effort to to into macros with them- I need something better to say. I hate arguing with people over stupid *kitten*.

cwsreddy

Just noting that the advice you've argued against for so long now apparently isn't "filling your body with toxins and poison." Glad to see you've come around.

That's a great point. Coach's beginnings around here were much... different.

They really weren't. have my views evolved? yep. but I started out working with people who weren't looking to become elite, and my clients at the time lost anywhere from 30-100+ pounds and did so in a sustainable fashion. Have I eased up a bit? sure. Was I ever as whacked out as you guys like to pretend? I don't think so. But hey, you're free to have your opinions.

jonnythan

Just noting that the advice you've argued against for so long now apparently isn't "filling your body with toxins and poison." Glad to see you've come around.

That's a great point. Coach's beginnings around here were much... different.

They really weren't. have my views evolved? yep. but I started out working with people who weren't looking to become elite, and my clients at the time lost anywhere from 30-100+ pounds and did so in a sustainable fashion. Have I eased up a bit? sure. Was I ever as whacked out as you guys like to pretend? I don't think so. But hey, you're free to have your opinions.

I don't think anyone pretends you're whack. You're just.... not correct, and much of your advice is unsupported by evidence. Furthermore, when it comes to nitty-gritty science you often get the details and fundamental facts wrong. My problem with you isn't that you're "whacked out," it's that you give poor advice that is frequently unsupported or even contradicted by available evidence.

SezxyStef

But they learn to over time... and they don't learn that by being afraid of food. They learn how to use good judgment about their diet by educating themselves about nutrition, and practicing moderation.

Your "clean-eating" mantra generates fear and causes people to distance themselves from food rather than learning about it.

I think it has been established time and time again, on the forums, and particularly with you, that "clean-eaters" and IIFYM'ers are essentially eating by a similar method (80% whole foods/20% processed or "dirty"). IIFYM'ers just simply take a different approach with consideration to the psychological component, or the relationship with food.

We don't fear eating food... we just make certain it doesn't get out of line!

this is great post.


also

you are lucky then...I have to endure the "clean eating" talk everytime someone sees me eating a cookie or a chocolate bar...

I get so sick of it to be honest...

"you can't eat that, you are getting healthy or are on a diet or are lifting or it's processed it make you fat..."

have you come up with a good snark to this?

I get this occasionally and I usually just tell them I can eat whatever the eff I want when I'm bulking. But it's mostly not worth the effort to to into macros with them- I need something better to say. I hate arguing with people over stupid *kitten*.

Usually something along the lines of poking them somewhere squishy...and saying when you start squatting your bodyweight and DL 40lbs over your BW come talk to me about what I can and cannot eat...

but yah most of the time I just smile and continue eating...agreed willful ignorance is hard to beat....

Sarauk2sf

Just noting that the advice you've argued against for so long now apparently isn't "filling your body with toxins and poison." Glad to see you've come around.

That's a great point. Coach's beginnings around here were much... different.

They really weren't. have my views evolved? yep. but I started out working with people who weren't looking to become elite, and my clients at the time lost anywhere from 30-100+ pounds and did so in a sustainable fashion. Have I eased up a bit? sure. Was I ever as whacked out as you guys like to pretend? I don't think so. But hey, you're free to have your opinions.

STahp with the elite already. Didn't you get spanked enough that time that you said you were?