Fruit Myth... Fact or fiction.

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  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    Yes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.

    IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.

    I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.

    Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.

    Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.

    My ex-wife thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail on a vegan diet, with no ill effects. She's been vegan for 20 years and her doctor said she's healthiest 45 year old she's ever cared for.

    where did I say that it wasn't possible to be healthy on a vegan diet?
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Yes I think a lot of people are totally mistaken (misled!) about the alleged health benefits and potential dangers of these diets.

    IMO the problem is that there are a bunch of vegan propagandists who are not only pushing an unhealthy version of the vegan diet, they're also lying (or kidding themselves or are in denial) about what nutrition humans actually need, to justify the diet that they're eating. Fruitarians do the same thing, only a more extreme version of it. It's the same pattern of meeting criticism of the diet by denying that humans actually need what they're not getting from the diet.

    I've yet to see a healthy version of the raw vegan diet. I have seen healthy versions of the regular vegan diet where cooking isn't considered as evil and the diet is supplemented with a small number of vitamins and minerals, many of which are found in fortified vegan foods, and careful attention is paid to getting all the nutrition needed, especially with regards to getting amino acids in the right balance.

    Fact is that humans are omnivores and while it's possible to get enough nutrition on a vegan diet, a healthy vegan diet is an imitation of an omnivorous diet, i.e. similar macronutrient ratios, amino acid and fatty acid profiles and micronutrients in similar proportions to what you get on an omnivorous diet, plus supplementing some vitamins and minerals that can't be obtained from plant food at all. Staring from the premise that humans are herbivores then recommending the macros and micronutrients that a herbivorous diet would provide as ideal for humans is stupid and dangerous. But that's exactly what some of these raw vegans 80/10/10 vegans and fruitarians are doing.

    Also the amount of people kidding themselves that their diet is healthy when it's not (from 80/10/10 vegans, raw vegans, fruitarians, the lot) is disturbing.

    My ex-wife thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail on a vegan diet, with no ill effects. She's been vegan for 20 years and her doctor said she's healthiest 45 year old she's ever cared for.
    Yeah my doctor said I'd grow up to be a pro ball player too
  • Lofteren
    Lofteren Posts: 960 Member
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    my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
    Facepalm. It comes from the food!

    Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....
  • Lofteren
    Lofteren Posts: 960 Member
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    These threads always bring out the weirdos....

    I.C.E. Cream Official Tester
    IKEA Professional Put Together-er
    Kickboxing Class Attender
    Been in fitness for about 2 years and have studied kitty-gif-ology, nutrition and Dinosaurs
    Well there is an association with vegetarians and mental illness
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22676203

    Hey! :angry:

    :tongue:
    Case in point.

    :heart:

    of course there is, American government and society is so healthy and thin, with such low rates of cancer, compared to india or other more vegetarian countries. But hey the government of America would never lie to their people :) I'd strongly recommend you "consider the source".

    While I don't trust the government either, I don't see how they would benefit from lying about this.
  • BigVeggieDream
    BigVeggieDream Posts: 1,101 Member
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    my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
    Facepalm. It comes from the food!

    Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....

    The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.

    Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
    1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
    2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
    3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
    4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
    5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
    6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
    7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
    8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
    9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
    10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.

    There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
    Facepalm. It comes from the food!

    Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....

    The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.

    Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
    1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
    2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
    3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
    4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
    5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
    6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
    7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
    8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
    9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
    10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.

    There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.

    The average American is not at a deficit and not particularly active. Both make a difference to what your minimum intake should be. Also, the numbers quoted are based on flawed methodology using nitrogen balance as a proxy for MPS.

    Also, you need to be careful of the bioavailability and the EAAs in protein, particularly leucine. Not all protein is created equal!
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
    Facepalm. It comes from the food!

    Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....

    The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.

    Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
    1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
    2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
    3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
    4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
    5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
    6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
    7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
    8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
    9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
    10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.

    There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.

    he said raw fruits and veggies though.... you can't eat raw pulses last time I checked.... and definitely not raw kidney beans, they're toxic raw.
  • wonderwoman234
    wonderwoman234 Posts: 551 Member
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    This is about a sustainable lifestyle change. If you can't sustain it then don't do it.

    THIS
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
    Facepalm. It comes from the food!

    Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....

    The average American eats twice as much protein than they need. 56 grams for men and 46 for women is considered what your daily intake should be.

    Vegetarian/vegan sources of protein
    1. One cup of cooked quinoa provides about 18 grams of protein.
    2. One cup of canned kidney beans contains about 13.4 grams of protein.
    3. A half-cup of tofu contains 10 grams, and soy milk contains 7 grams of protein per cup.
    4. Two tablespoons of peanut butter contains about 8 grams of protein.
    5. One veggie patty contains about 10 grams of protein, and 100 grams of seitan provides 21 grams of protein.
    6. One serving of tempeh (100 grams) provides about 18 grams of protein.
    7. Peas - One cup contains 7.9 grams
    8. Chickpeas - ontain 7.3 grams of protein in just half a cup
    9. Two cups of raw spinach, for example, contain 2.1 grams of protein
    10. One cup of chopped broccoli contains 8.1 grams.

    There are 10 sources and there are plenty others.

    he said raw fruits and veggies though.... you can't eat raw pulses last time I checked.... and definitely not raw kidney beans, they're toxic raw.

    The only things that you can actually eat raw from that list are #s 7, 9 and 10 (although I am not sure about the chickpeas).
  • AirborneEd
    AirborneEd Posts: 69
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    I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
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    my question would be 'where is the protein going to come from'?
    Facepalm. It comes from the food!

    Protein comes from raw fruits and veggies? I guess all us stupid meatheads have been doing it wrong all this time....
    Precisely.
  • bellevie86
    bellevie86 Posts: 301 Member
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    First of all, OP the others are right when they say pick a sustainable diet, that doesn't make you miserable. Also,

    1. The guy is just trying to say that yes, when you consider fruit vs. candy bar obviously you're going to get things from the fruits that you wont get from that candy bar. I've never known anyone to eat too much fruit, you really have to eat a lot I'd think. And last time I checked an average candy bar had AT LEAST 150 cals, so yes that 80 cal apple is a better choice. But log it.

    2. Juicing or blending doesn't magically add sugar to any fruit. It just changes how quickly that sugar hits your blood.

    3. Every carb had a GI rating, the higher it is the more quickly it will raise your blood sugar. Stuff like bananas have a pretty high rating. But as does bread. I eat a banana a day and I don't have problems. But I can go to subway and eat a foot long sub and I'm shaking and starving 2 hrs later. Not fun.

    4. Also there is protein in most veg, it's not THAT hard for a veg person to meet their macro. Vegan is another story. That ****'s too hard for me.

    5. While i totally believe that there are lots of healthy vegan people out there I've also met a few that were really sick, pale, anemic and lacking a lot of vitamins. If you are vegan you really have to supplement.
  • BigVeggieDream
    BigVeggieDream Posts: 1,101 Member
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    I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.

    Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.

    Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.

    but it's funny.

    red-herring.gif
  • BigVeggieDream
    BigVeggieDream Posts: 1,101 Member
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    I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.

    Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.

    but it's funny.

    Not in the middle of a heated debate.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.

    Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.

    but it's funny.

    Not in the middle of a heated debate.


    awfully quiet for a heated debate.
  • BigVeggieDream
    BigVeggieDream Posts: 1,101 Member
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    I believe wood chips are the way to go. Low calories and very filling.

    Don't use a red herring. It does nothing to further the debate.

    but it's funny.

    Not in the middle of a heated debate.


    awfully quiet for a heated debate.

    You weren't here earlier. It seems to have gotten quiet in the last half hour.
  • Lofteren
    Lofteren Posts: 960 Member
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    Wait, so why aren't you jacked?
  • RllyGudTweetr
    RllyGudTweetr Posts: 2,019 Member
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    So, anecdotal evidence is fine, but sarcasm is bad, during a debate.

    Got it.
  • jennyharland1
    jennyharland1 Posts: 9 Member
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    Ive been a vegetarian for 5 months and Ive never felt better! But that doesn't mean its for everyone! I think all food is okay in moderation, and Ive finally learned after years of yoyo dieting that denying myself what I like or want doesn't make me thin or healthy, just miserable.

    I think if you like fruit, you should eat it. In moderation. It is very good for you. Antioxidants, vitamins, fiber, etc...

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