Low Carb Diets and Coronary Blood Flow
Replies
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Well, that video made me go and look a both the original article and some of the current research and guidelines.
That original article isn't very good.
Guidelines:
Diet and lifestyle recommendations for cardiovascular disease risk reduction
• Achieve and maintain a healthy body weight
• Balance calorie intake and physical activity
• Diet should be rich in vegetables and fruits
• Choose whole-grain, high-fiber foods
• Fish (especially oily fish) should be consumed at least twice a week
• Saturated fat intake should be ,7%, trans fat to ,1%, and cholesterol to ,300 mg/d
– Lean meats and vegetables should be preferred
– Fat-free (skim), 1% fat, and low-fat dairy products should be preferred
– Intake of partially hydrogenated fats should be minimized
• Intake of products with added sugars should be minimized
• Little or no salt should be used to cook food
• Alcohol should be consumed in moderation
• Preferably, the AHA diet and lifestyle recommendations should be adhered to when away from home
Modified from “AHA 2006 diet and lifestyle recommendations for cardiovascular disease risk reduction” in Gidding SS, Lichtenstein AH, Faith MS, et al. Implementing American Heart Association pediatric and adult nutrition guidelines: a scientific statement from the American Heart Association Nutrition Committee of the Council on Nutrition, Physical Activity and Metabolism, Council on Cardiovascular Disease in the Young, Council on Arteriosclerosis, Thrombosis and Vascular Biology, Council on Cardiovascular Nursing, Council on Epidemiology and Prevention, and Council for High Blood Pressure Research. Circulation. 2009;119(8):1161–1175.15
I may not agree with all of these fully - but there they are AHA, 2006.
You will notice that the guidelines do NOT recommend the cessation of meat or the lowering of protein.
Oh, and the effects of fruit and vegetables on cardio disease?
Nat Rev Cardiol. 2009 Sep;6(9):599-608. doi: 10.1038/nrcardio.2009.131. Epub 2009 Aug 4.
Fruits, vegetables and coronary heart disease.
Dauchet L1, Amouyel P, Dallongeville J.
Author information 1Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, INSERM 744, Institut Pasteur de Lille and University of Lille Nord de France, Lille, France.
Abstract
Diet plays an important part in the maintenance of optimal cardiovascular health. This Review summarizes the evidence for a relationship between fruit and vegetable consumption and the occurrence of coronary heart disease. This evidence is based on observational cohort studies, nutrition prevention trials with fruit and vegetables, and investigations of the effects of fruit and vegetables on cardiovascular risk factors. Most of the evidence supporting a cardioprotective effect comes from observational epidemiological studies; these studies have reported either weak or nonsignificant associations. Controlled nutritional prevention trials are scarce and the existing data do not show any clear protective effects of fruit and vegetables on coronary heart disease. Under rigorously controlled experimental conditions, fruit and vegetable consumption is associated with a decrease in blood pressure, which is an important cardiovascular risk factor. However, the effects of fruit and vegetable consumption on plasma lipid levels, diabetes, and body weight have not yet been thoroughly explored. Finally, the hypothesis that nutrients in fruit and vegetables have a protective role in reducing the formation of atherosclerotic plaques and preventing complications of atherosclerosis has not been tested in prevention trials. Evidence that fruit and vegetable consumption reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease remains scarce thus far.
Keep trying.0 -
Careful your zealotry is showing Evgeni :laugh:0
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Oh, and the author of that video LIES by omission when discussing the last study he cites.
You know, he cites the study to say low-carb diets somehow show a higher rate of mortality. Well, what does the study actually say?
The risks of CVD mortality and incidence were not statistically increased
Low-carbohydrate diets were associated with a significantly higher risk of all-cause mortality and they were not significantly associated with a risk of CVD mortality and incidence. However, this analysis is based on limited observational studies and large-scale trials on the complex interactions between low-carbohydrate diets and long-term outcomes are needed.
Higher overall death BUT NO SIGNIFICANT HIGHER RISK OF CVD! Basically countering the entire prior part of the the video.
*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23372809
It's really unfortunate to cherry-pick like that.0 -
Careful your zealotry is showing Evgeni :laugh:
Dubunking crap science til I turn blue in the face?
Yeah, I got it bad.0 -
Actually I was listening to a trainer talk about his vegan client. That client kept getting injured over and over again. The vegan client finally went to a specialist and the specialist asked him what his diet was. The vegan client told him he was a vegan. The doctor said "that's the problem you're tendon won't heal because your diet is deficient in nutrients that are required to heal your tendon and if you don't change your diet your tendon will be permanently damaged". After that appointment with the doctor the vegan went out and ate four hamburgers and was no longer a vegan.Every nutrient, mineral, anti-oxidant, essential amino acid and essential fatty acid, is found in the plant kingdom. Eating animals is unnecessary for nutrients; people eat animals for other reasons.0 -
Wow, you really have drunk a lot of the kool-aid, haven't you?We don't need the nutrients found in animal products, nutrition comes from plants. Where does the animal get it's nutrition? There are many healthy vegans, and a lot of old vegans that are healthy. Studies show that vegans live longer than meat eaters, pescatarians, vegetarians, etc. There is only one thing that vegans need to supplement, and that is B12, which comes from bacteria, not meat. Every nutrient, mineral, anti-oxidant, essential amino acid and essential fatty acid, is found in the plant kingdom. Eating animals is unnecessary for nutrients; people eat animals for other reasons.
Even Dr. Michael Greger (YOUR source from nutritionfacts.org) agrees that vegans, vegetarians and meat-eaters have similar mortality. He learned this when he studied the events surrounding the heart attack of 66 year old Jay Dinshah - leader of the American Vegan Society. Look it up, feel free to counter it ... except Dr. Michael Greger will tell you that himself.
Sure you can get nutrients and protein by NOT eating animals, but you MUST supplement. It's an ethical choice only. There is no scientific or medical argument for veganism or vegetarianism.
You really need to look at INDEPENDENT views of things, instead of relying on what DurianRider or some other B12-deficient ignorant zealot would have you believe.
If your blood test results are better than Durianrider's, I'll listen to you instead. He's not deficient in B12 by the way.
This is starting to sound more like hero worship/a cult than critical thinking and careful analysis of the available information. Try reading what's been posted in here and compare it to what you have been reading with a critical eye.0 -
i don't listen to ignorant zealots. That's why i don't listen to people like you.
Wow, you really have drunk a lot of the kool-aid, haven't you?We don't need the nutrients found in animal products, nutrition comes from plants. Where does the animal get it's nutrition? There are many healthy vegans, and a lot of old vegans that are healthy. Studies show that vegans live longer than meat eaters, pescatarians, vegetarians, etc. There is only one thing that vegans need to supplement, and that is B12, which comes from bacteria, not meat. Every nutrient, mineral, anti-oxidant, essential amino acid and essential fatty acid, is found in the plant kingdom. Eating animals is unnecessary for nutrients; people eat animals for other reasons.
Even Dr. Michael Greger (YOUR source from nutritionfacts.org) agrees that vegans, vegetarians and meat-eaters have similar mortality. He learned this when he studied the events surrounding the heart attack of 66 year old Jay Dinshah - leader of the American Vegan Society. Look it up, feel free to counter it ... except Dr. Michael Greger will tell you that himself.
Sure you can get nutrients and protein by NOT eating animals, but you MUST supplement. It's an ethical choice only. There is no scientific or medical argument for veganism or vegetarianism.
You really need to look at INDEPENDENT views of things, instead of relying on what DurianRider or some other B12-deficient ignorant zealot would have you believe.
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Have you ever tried it? I have. I am still here. In fact, i am healthier than i was when i ate low carb.Why, when we eat only fruit and vegetables, do we get sick and DIE?
NOBODY gets sick and dies from eating a fruit and vegetable based diet, unless they go years without eating seeds or nuts, and they STILL live longer than meat eaters and vegetarians.
They do?
None of the "blue zones" with the highest concentration of 100 year olds are vegan populations.
None of the oldest living modern human beings were vegans.
Anecdotally, my grandmother, the baby of 10 kids, is turning 87 this year and is in better shape than most of her kids. She had three siblings pass in the last 5 years, all of them over 90. Every single last one of them were meat eaters. My great grandmother on my father's side died a few months shy of 100; meat eater.
Not one single study of extremely old people has yielded proof that veganism is the key to living longer. Not a single one.
So, pray tell, where does the myth of "vegans living longer than meat eaters AND vegetarians" source from?0 -
Well, debunking crap science to a person who chooses to embrace a lifestyle based on propaganda and lies unfortunately doesn't get us very far.Careful your zealotry is showing Evgeni :laugh:
Dubunking crap science til I turn blue in the face?
Yeah, I got it bad.
Hopefully those less-zealous will get the truth from here, instead of the crazy vegan propaganda.0 -
My blood tests are amazing, thanks all the same. Especially for someone 12 years older than Harley and a former fat-guy / diabetic. My cholesterol profile and triglycerides are considerably better than his last posting, thanks.If your blood test results are better than Durianrider's, I'll listen to you instead. He's not deficient in B12 by the way.
FYI - regarding his deficiency... He's currently taking B12 injections (not just supplements), due to the extreme nature of his very unnatural diet. He's been incredibly deficient in the past, and continues to be so - thus the need for regular injections. And regardless of his claims, it's completely a result of his diet.
From Aussie Dietician Susie Burrell, when testing several subjects:Harley
Remember, Harley completely cuts out anything to do with animal products and relies purely on raw fruit, veggies and nuts.
His results have got Susie really worried: "My biggest concern is that your vitamin B12 is one of the lowest clinical levels we have ever seen!"
Harley's B12 was just 78. That's drastically lower than the normal intake range from 145 to 637 and means our vegan could be susceptible to anaemia, blurry vision and loss of feeling in the hands and feet in the long term.
Yeah, that vegan is the image of health. *rolls eyes*0 -
Terrible study, 26 total participants, self reporting of diet, laughable...
I just polled 27 people at my work, they all disagree. My study > then yours.0 -
Damn! More science!Terrible study, 26 total participants, self reporting of diet, laughable...
I just polled 27 people at my work, they all disagree. My study > then yours.0 -
Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?0
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http://shelf3d.com/Videos/zQ7WYJRWzX8
Link to a video showing Durianrider injecting B12, (granted into someone else)
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Says who? Um... Harley Johnstone aka DurianRider himself. It's on his blog, in his videos, on many vegan websites. He openly admits it and it's because he HAS a dietary deficiency. He also is a proponent of it, and has recommended it to many both in-person and on his forum.Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?
Do you even read, bro?0 -
I can't agree with durianrider 100% on everything. My personal choice of B12 supplementation would be in a tablet or some fermented veggies.0
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Says who? Um... Harley Johnstone aka DurianRider himself. It's on his blog, in his videos, on many vegan websites. He openly admits it and it's because he HAS a dietary deficiency. He also is a proponent of it, and has recommended it to many both in-person and on his forum.Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?
Do you even read, bro?
Matter of fact I just finished reading The China Study. Great book! Bill Clinton lost 24 lbs and is doing a lot better from his heart disease thanks to that information.0 -
Tell me about it! That Albertabeefy fella just doesn't listen.
Well, debunking crap science to a person who chooses to embrace a lifestyle based on propaganda and lies unfortunately doesn't get us very far.0 -
I rest my case..............
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Tell me about it! That Albertabeefy fella just doesn't listen.
Well, debunking crap science to a person who chooses to embrace a lifestyle based on propaganda and lies unfortunately doesn't get us very far.
Alberta's quite sciencey. He's full of science. He doesn't listen to anecdotal 'evidence' that's not science.
When I think 'science' I think Albertabeefy.
You just don't like him because he eats meat.0 -
Says who? Um... Harley Johnstone aka DurianRider himself. It's on his blog, in his videos, on many vegan websites. He openly admits it and it's because he HAS a dietary deficiency. He also is a proponent of it, and has recommended it to many both in-person and on his forum.Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?
Do you even read, bro?
Matter of fact I just finished reading The China Study. Great book! Bill Clinton lost 24 lbs and is doing a lot better from his heart disease thanks to that information.
Except Clinton eats salmon and eggs every week. He's admitted as much. Not vegan.0 -
NigellaI rest my case..............
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Says who? Um... Harley Johnstone aka DurianRider himself. It's on his blog, in his videos, on many vegan websites. He openly admits it and it's because he HAS a dietary deficiency. He also is a proponent of it, and has recommended it to many both in-person and on his forum.Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?
Do you even read, bro?
Matter of fact I just finished reading The China Study. Great book! Bill Clinton lost 24 lbs and is doing a lot better from his heart disease thanks to that information.
Except Clinton eats salmon and eggs every week. He's admitted as much. Not vegan.
WOULD YOU STOP WITH THE FACTS! YOU"RE SUCH A ZEALOT0 -
NigellaI rest my case..............
+10 -
Do you have a link to him saying this? I've heard him talking about how he very rarely eats fish, not once a week, and i never heard him say he eats eggs.
Says who? Um... Harley Johnstone aka DurianRider himself. It's on his blog, in his videos, on many vegan websites. He openly admits it and it's because he HAS a dietary deficiency. He also is a proponent of it, and has recommended it to many both in-person and on his forum.Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?
Do you even read, bro?
Matter of fact I just finished reading The China Study. Great book! Bill Clinton lost 24 lbs and is doing a lot better from his heart disease thanks to that information.
Except Clinton eats salmon and eggs every week. He's admitted as much. Not vegan.0 -
there's this thing called "google"....
About 1,780,000 results (0.44 seconds)
http://www.examiner.com/article/egg-on-his-face-vegan-bill-clinton-admits-to-eating-omelets-and-salmon
http://animalrights.about.com/od/Veganism/a/Is-Bill-Clinton-Vegan.htm
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/09/04/bill-clinton-cheatson-his-vegan-diet&view=comments0 -
there's this thing called "google"....
About 1,780,000 results (0.44 seconds)
http://www.examiner.com/article/egg-on-his-face-vegan-bill-clinton-admits-to-eating-omelets-and-salmon
http://animalrights.about.com/od/Veganism/a/Is-Bill-Clinton-Vegan.htm
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/09/04/bill-clinton-cheatson-his-vegan-diet&view=comments
Here's Bill Clinton talking about the diet that helped him himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPpcBMwLg2Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player. This is him talking and giving the vegan diet credit. And yes I do believe he cheats on his vegan diet, and he admits he's still a little overweight as well. Bottom line he's a fan of the famous vegan Dr Esselstyn Jr. 0 -
Tell me about it! That Albertabeefy fella just doesn't listen.
Well, debunking crap science to a person who chooses to embrace a lifestyle based on propaganda and lies unfortunately doesn't get us very far.
Actually albertabeefy's posts in this thread make a lot of sense and can be verified by anyone interested in checking the facts. In contrast, you clearly have an agenda againt meat eaters. You also don't back up your claims with any randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled studies. Your information comes from biased vegan sites.0 -
Do you have a link to him saying this? I've heard him talking about how he very rarely eats fish, not once a week, and i never heard him say he eats eggs.
Says who? Um... Harley Johnstone aka DurianRider himself. It's on his blog, in his videos, on many vegan websites. He openly admits it and it's because he HAS a dietary deficiency. He also is a proponent of it, and has recommended it to many both in-person and on his forum.Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?
Do you even read, bro?
Matter of fact I just finished reading The China Study. Great book! Bill Clinton lost 24 lbs and is doing a lot better from his heart disease thanks to that information.
Except Clinton eats salmon and eggs every week. He's admitted as much. Not vegan.
Even if he 'rarely' eats fish, by vegan standards it makes him a carnivore. So he's still not a vegan OR vegetarian because he eats delicious animal flesh.0 -
Do you have a link to him saying this? I've heard him talking about how he very rarely eats fish, not once a week, and i never heard him say he eats eggs.
Says who? Um... Harley Johnstone aka DurianRider himself. It's on his blog, in his videos, on many vegan websites. He openly admits it and it's because he HAS a dietary deficiency. He also is a proponent of it, and has recommended it to many both in-person and on his forum.Durianrider injecting himself with B12? Says who?
Do you even read, bro?
Matter of fact I just finished reading The China Study. Great book! Bill Clinton lost 24 lbs and is doing a lot better from his heart disease thanks to that information.
Except Clinton eats salmon and eggs every week. He's admitted as much. Not vegan.
Even if he 'rarely' eats fish, by vegan standards it makes him a carnivore. So he's still not a vegan OR vegetarian because he eats delicious animal flesh.
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