Athlean Bulking while Cutting
Replies
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I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.
There was a girl on here quite a while back that started a thread on her transformation including pics of herself, she was ripped....she then went on to tell us that she trained with 3lb weights and ate at a deficit.
All the things everyone says can't happen did happen to her.....?!1 -
I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.
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There are also folks, like me, who have tried to do this because I didn't want to believe it either. I have managed to retain most of my lean mass by lifting heavy and getting enough protein. I have yet to see a post from someone who said they ate at a deficit for a year or whatever and added any mass. I'm sure there are some out there, but I haven't seen it.I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.1 -
I experienced an increase of 40 lbs on my squat on my first couple weeks of dieting, while losing about 10 pounds. I really think it has to do with timing, having an ample fat supply and having a previous consistent lifting routine. Obviously as you approach lower body fat thresholds, the harder it is to do. Just my experience.1
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I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.
The problem with "recomposition" is that there are very, very, very few success stories. The vast majority that try it give up in frustration eventually.
Muscle gain even in optimal conditions is an agonizingly slow process. Cut down to growth raters that are a fraction of optimal speed and INCREASE the diet commitment demands (esp. if carb cycling) and you can see why success stories are few and far between.
For every 1 recomp success story there are half a dozen I tried and gave up because it didn't/barely worked.0 -
I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.
The problem with "recomposition" is that there are very, very, very few success stories. The vast majority that try it give up in frustration eventually.
Muscle gain even in optimal conditions is an agonizingly slow process. Cut down to growth raters that are a fraction of optimal speed and INCREASE the diet commitment demands (esp. if carb cycling) and you can see why success stories are few and far between.
For every 1 recomp success story there are half a dozen I tried and gave up because it didn't/barely worked.
very factual.
Seems to me two things are necessary to be successful, one being learning how to bulk and the other I used to find infinitely more demanding, learning how to diet, both on a personal level.
With both of those optimised and tailored to your individual lifestyle, I see no point in using a handicapped slow process of lean bulking or bulking while cutting if either are possible to sustain due to the strict nature of the process.0 -
Recomposition worked for me for about 6 months or so, but even at 120 pounds, I had a high body fat percent and no real muscle mass to speak of. After 6 months, I looked pretty good and was smaller at the same weight, but I didn't get the results I wanted. The biggest change in my body came when I went on a bulk.
For someone with a lot of fat to lose, eating at a deficit while lifting is the best idea. Bulking with a high body fat percent isn't the best idea because the person will keep adding to the fat stores and not optimize muscle growth. This works great for people who start out obese, but for people who fall into the skinny-fat category, it's a much harder process. A skinny-fat person needs to bulk, obviously, but doing a body recomposition for a while before a bulk can show good results.0 -
I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.
There was a girl on here quite a while back that started a thread on her transformation including pics of herself, she was ripped....she then went on to tell us that she trained with 3lb weights and ate at a deficit.
All the things everyone says can't happen did happen to her.....?!
being ripped is not the same has having built solid muscle and GAINED size.
You can be ripped and be very small (figure/fitness girls are a good example) bikini models for promo adds- often are this way. Lean- look well muscled because they have low body fat- but if you look at their actual structure- it's incredibly small- they have no size.
Anyone who wants to put on size- will wind up cutting and bulking- it's the most efficient way to do an already lengthy (and well proven) process.1 -
you lost body fat which revealed the muscle that you already have…This is interesting to me because I'm currently doing a ton of cardio (1000-1200 calories a day) eating a deficit of around 1000 and weight training. I just started keeping track of all of this stuff, but last week I lost 2 pounds. My arms, chest and legs feel bigger to me so I seem to be building muscle while losing fat.
It seems to me, with what little understanding I have of physiology, that if I am using more calories than I am taking in my stored fat will make up the difference. Why should that process keep me from building muscle? I have a fair amount of muscle, more than average anyway, and my body fat % is in the upper teens. My goal is to lose 10% of it in the next two months.
I'll have to keep it up and see what happens. Either way I'm not going to stop what I'm doing because I want to at least keep the muscle that I have while losing fat.
I've never heard of Athlean though.
losing fat AND building muscle are diametrically opposed to one another. You need a calorie surplus to build new muscle, because you want to build something new out of nothing. you need a calorie deficit to lose fat. To say that you can build new muscle and lose fat at the same time, is like saying you can build a house and tear it down at the same time. ..
i find it pretty hard to believe that you are burning 1200 calories a day ANd building new muscle..
an obese beginner can have "newbie" gains but after a few months that ceases...
Agreed. My guess is that 2200 calories with all the running you're doing is NOT maintenance, you're probably in a huge deficit actually, you're a big guy. I'm a little shrimp and a woman and my maintenance is around 2000.
You can't build muscle in a deficit. You might be able to hang on to muscle and recomp at maintenance, but in your case you're in a deficit so you'll most likely lose some muscle.0 -
I've never really understood this myself. If I am strength training and adding weights every couple weeks so I know I'm able to lift more, how is that different from gaining muscle. If I'm getting stronger doesn't that mean I'm building muscle?0
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not really, you're building strength infact. if you were eating more than required, muscle growth would occur also.0
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not really, you're building strength infact. if you were eating more than required, muscle growth would occur also.
Ok so "building" strength is not the same as building muscle. I think it just clicked. I always thought the 2 were synonymous What y'all are saying is you can get stronger but to actually add or build new muscle on top of what you already have, you have to eat more. But if I eat more then I just put on more weight, which is not what I want to do.1 -
There are also folks, like me, who have tried to do this because I didn't want to believe it either. I have managed to retain most of my lean mass by lifting heavy and getting enough protein. I have yet to see a post from someone who said they ate at a deficit for a year or whatever and added any mass. I'm sure there are some out there, but I haven't seen it.I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.
Bearing in mind my weight loss was deliberately very slow really my weight loss was very similar to recomp.
March to October timeframe:
Weight down 4lbs
Fat loss 7.5lbs
LBM up 3.5lbs
So nothing dramatic but at my age and with a sub-optimal weights routine I wasn't likely to get dramatic results whatever I did!!0 -
you lost body fat which revealed the muscle that you already have…This is interesting to me because I'm currently doing a ton of cardio (1000-1200 calories a day) eating a deficit of around 1000 and weight training. I just started keeping track of all of this stuff, but last week I lost 2 pounds. My arms, chest and legs feel bigger to me so I seem to be building muscle while losing fat.
It seems to me, with what little understanding I have of physiology, that if I am using more calories than I am taking in my stored fat will make up the difference. Why should that process keep me from building muscle? I have a fair amount of muscle, more than average anyway, and my body fat % is in the upper teens. My goal is to lose 10% of it in the next two months.
I'll have to keep it up and see what happens. Either way I'm not going to stop what I'm doing because I want to at least keep the muscle that I have while losing fat.
I've never heard of Athlean though.
losing fat AND building muscle are diametrically opposed to one another. You need a calorie surplus to build new muscle, because you want to build something new out of nothing. you need a calorie deficit to lose fat. To say that you can build new muscle and lose fat at the same time, is like saying you can build a house and tear it down at the same time. ..
i find it pretty hard to believe that you are burning 1200 calories a day ANd building new muscle..
an obese beginner can have "newbie" gains but after a few months that ceases...
Agreed. My guess is that 2200 calories with all the running you're doing is NOT maintenance, you're probably in a huge deficit actually, you're a big guy. I'm a little shrimp and a woman and my maintenance is around 2000.
You can't build muscle in a deficit. You might be able to hang on to muscle and recomp at maintenance, but in your case you're in a deficit so you'll most likely lose some muscle.
Yep I am in a big deficit. Greater than 1000 calories a day. But I'm also training my butt off. I'm losing 2 pounds a week. But my shirts are tighter in the chest and arms, my pants are loose in the waist. Yes I am building muscle and losing weight at the same time. ::gasp:: or maybe my clothing is changing size?!?!? Haha. Please folks stop telling me that I don't know my own body. Why can't people be happy about someone else's success? 1 -
There are also folks, like me, who have tried to do this because I didn't want to believe it either. I have managed to retain most of my lean mass by lifting heavy and getting enough protein. I have yet to see a post from someone who said they ate at a deficit for a year or whatever and added any mass. I'm sure there are some out there, but I haven't seen it.I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.
Bearing in mind my weight loss was deliberately very slow really my weight loss was very similar to recomp.
March to October timeframe:
Weight down 4lbs
Fat loss 7.5lbs
LBM up 3.5lbs
So nothing dramatic but at my age and with a sub-optimal weights routine I wasn't likely to get dramatic results whatever I did!!
Those are excellent results!!1 -
you lost body fat which revealed the muscle that you already have…This is interesting to me because I'm currently doing a ton of cardio (1000-1200 calories a day) eating a deficit of around 1000 and weight training. I just started keeping track of all of this stuff, but last week I lost 2 pounds. My arms, chest and legs feel bigger to me so I seem to be building muscle while losing fat.
It seems to me, with what little understanding I have of physiology, that if I am using more calories than I am taking in my stored fat will make up the difference. Why should that process keep me from building muscle? I have a fair amount of muscle, more than average anyway, and my body fat % is in the upper teens. My goal is to lose 10% of it in the next two months.
I'll have to keep it up and see what happens. Either way I'm not going to stop what I'm doing because I want to at least keep the muscle that I have while losing fat.
I've never heard of Athlean though.
losing fat AND building muscle are diametrically opposed to one another. You need a calorie surplus to build new muscle, because you want to build something new out of nothing. you need a calorie deficit to lose fat. To say that you can build new muscle and lose fat at the same time, is like saying you can build a house and tear it down at the same time. ..
i find it pretty hard to believe that you are burning 1200 calories a day ANd building new muscle..
an obese beginner can have "newbie" gains but after a few months that ceases...
Agreed. My guess is that 2200 calories with all the running you're doing is NOT maintenance, you're probably in a huge deficit actually, you're a big guy. I'm a little shrimp and a woman and my maintenance is around 2000.
You can't build muscle in a deficit. You might be able to hang on to muscle and recomp at maintenance, but in your case you're in a deficit so you'll most likely lose some muscle.
Yep I am in a big deficit. Greater than 1000 calories a day. But I'm also training my butt off. I'm losing 2 pounds a week. But my shirts are tighter in the chest and arms, my pants are loose in the waist. Yes I am building muscle and losing weight at the same time. ::gasp:: or maybe my clothing is changing size?!?!? Haha. Please folks stop telling me that I don't know my own body. Why can't people be happy about someone else's success?
If true, you are a genetic marvel. The one true special snowflake.1 -
If you do a little research, it's not hard to find people who have accomplished body recomposition you know....
In fact if you'd just scroll up a little you'll see a member here who did it.1 -
not really, you're building strength infact. if you were eating more than required, muscle growth would occur also.
Ok so "building" strength is not the same as building muscle. I think it just clicked. I always thought the 2 were synonymous What y'all are saying is you can get stronger but to actually add or build new muscle on top of what you already have, you have to eat more. But if I eat more then I just put on more weight, which is not what I want to do.
If you eat more, up to a pound a month of the new weight could potentially be muscle. Which is what takes care of the tummy bulge, etc when you cut back down.
I've tried to recomp most of my life and never had as much arm definition as now, after I just gained 8 pounds. I can hardly wait until I can take all the excess off and see what I've got.
One half is eating. The other half is progressive resistance exercise.1 -
If you do a little research, it's not hard to find people who have accomplished body recomposition you know....
In fact if you'd just scroll up a little you'll see a member here who did it.
We'll be happy to see your progress pics in six months.1 -
Try carb cycling consuming minimum carbs try to consume 30 carbs or less your body uses carbs for energy . If you cut out the carbs it will use fat for energy or if needed it will convert protein to carbohydrates i know people do this to lose weight but before you go on the marathon i would consume a few hundred carbohydrates the day prior .Possibly the day of . You can actually lose weight and gain muscle by carb cycling of course you gotta work out and eat good as well in lay mans terms go low carb high protein and fat0
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I'm very familiar with Athlean. The thing is that yes it's very true you can build muscle while being at a caloric deficit. It's also true 100% that green tea extract helps you burn fat. 100% The question is....how much though? Enough to notice? If you're trying to gain muscle while training for a marathon, good luck with that. Your priority will be trying to maintain muscle mass that you have, and muscle mass is about more than just muscle tissue. Please see Sarcoplasmic vs. Myofibrillar. but what it boils down to is energy management. How many calories of protein, fats and carbs are you planning on eating? Yes it's all about nitrogen balance when talking about protein synthesis, i.e. whether or not you're losing or maintaining or building muscle.0
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Why?oh and LOL at "positive nitrogen balance"1 -
Yep, one of the most important and most forgotten about...and not really in much chemical components of carbs and fats by basic and even complex definitions. DNA can't replicate with carbs and fats alone. Ahhh...Nitrogen. It's an element. Atomic number 7. N. Science.0 -
This is because strength is largely due to neurological factors and not muscular gain or loss. One doesn't need to gain muscle to get stronger. And during the "noob gains" phase no logic applies to nutrient and strength partitioning, i.e. where calories end up going to after being eaten.I experienced an increase of 40 lbs on my squat on my first couple weeks of dieting, while losing about 10 pounds. I really think it has to do with timing, having an ample fat supply and having a previous consistent lifting routine. Obviously as you approach lower body fat thresholds, the harder it is to do. Just my experience.0 -
Yep, one of the most important and most forgotten about...and not really in much chemical components of carbs and fats by basic and even complex definitions. DNA can't replicate with carbs and fats alone. Ahhh...Nitrogen. It's an element. Atomic number 7. N. Science.
CHNOPS.
It's kind of hard to avoid if you eat formerly living things - which is what fat and protein are. It's in the air. Is it something I need to worry about?1 -
Ok, in for "special snowflakes" that can magically produce muscle out of thin air.1
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But my shirts are tighter in the chest and arms, my pants are loose in the waist.
Sounds like you've found your pump?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ivan5.htm0 -
Ok, in for "special snowflakes" that can magically produce muscle out of thin air.
x2 this!! A recomp is one thing but having a caloric restriction so low he loses 2 lbs a week and still think hes gaining muscle out of thin air makes one a true magical special snowflake.
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But my shirts are tighter in the chest and arms, my pants are loose in the waist.
Sounds like you've found your pump?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ivan5.htm
Just because I'm new here doesn't mean that new to lifting. And I've never heard of a pump lasting for 3 days.
I'm tired of this thread. It's just gotten silly now.1 -
Yep, one of the most important and most forgotten about...and not really in much chemical components of carbs and fats by basic and even complex definitions. DNA can't replicate with carbs and fats alone. Ahhh...Nitrogen. It's an element. Atomic number 7. N. Science.
CHNOPS.
It's kind of hard to avoid if you eat formerly living things - which is what fat and protein are. It's in the air. Is it something I need to worry about?
Ok. I looked it up. I'm even more confused. All it means is that you eat more protein than you burn. It doesn't sound like rocket science. Am I wrong?1
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