Athlean Bulking while Cutting

mortuseon

I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.

Your genetics might make it easier for you (some people may put on muscle a little more readily), but I think you'll probably reach a point where you stall and will have to eventually eat at a surplus. It's no bad thing. If you're sure you're building right now, keep doing what you're doing and then eat at a surplus when that fails! Other people might think differently, though.

Chris_Pierce

Your have a point there mrm27. We all want to be "special" right? We will see what happens in the long run for me. I know after I use my me fat stores I'll have to start eating a surplus if I want to make large gains. But for now I'm happy with weight loss and small gains.

sijomial

I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.

I don't believe it's as rare as people make out - there is a lot of "group think" on MFP.
Just don't expect dramatic increases!
My experience is that I recorded a small increase of LBM while losing weight (along with small measured increases in arm and leg size). I really came under the category of returning from injury/training break. I also follow an IF routine which may help.

Whatever the outcome the worst you will achieve is retaining as much muscle as possible if you do the right things. I would caution that is you are running a big deficit that's not going to help your cause.
If you are returning to lifting it is in your favour as is your age and gender.

Chris_Pierce

I don't know if I would be considered "returning" But I did have an injury and an illness last fall, I didn't get back into working out until December. But it's been business as usual since then, except for the added cardio and the whole dairy thing.

I did read an article that mentioned how if in the past your were more muscular that it would help you gain while losing so to speak. Back in highschool I was pretty muscular, I don't know if it's true or not, the guy has a best selling series of books on fitness. So yeah. Salesman.

Chris_Pierce

I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.

I don't believe it's as rare as people make out - there is a lot of "group think" on MFP.
Just don't expect dramatic increases!
My experience is that I recorded a small increase of LBM while losing weight (along with small measured increases in arm and leg size). I really came under the category of returning from injury/training break. I also follow an IF routine which may help.

Whatever the outcome the worst you will achieve is retaining as much muscle as possible if you do the right things. I would caution that is you are running a big deficit that's not going to help your cause.
If you are returning to lifting it is in your favour as is your age and gender.

My position on this topic isn't that some/small gains are not possible, mostly within the first year of training. But I definitely don't agree with the idea that a lot of people throw around here when someone posts that they have been lifting for a couple months and they hit a 2, 3, 4 week time frame where they don't lose weight then other people jump in saying that it is because they are gaining muscle. Especially when the person is barely lifting and if they are it's not heavy or in progressive overload. Under ideal, deliberate situations where people are bulking you're looking at 2-3 lbs a month in muscle gains so if you think about someone in deficit, how much can actually be gained? Certainly not enough to mask fat loss like so many suspect.

Oh yeah that's for sure. I'm not expecting to gain as much as I lose. HAHA. That's just silly talk. Even If I were 50lbs over weight I think that'd be a hard thing to do.

iPlatano

Of course you can and sometimes ONLY maintain if you've been doing this for quite some time! You dont look to muscular so of course you can but the process is so freaking slow that you wont even notice it!

ndj1979

This is interesting to me because I'm currently doing a ton of cardio (1000-1200 calories a day) eating a deficit of around 1000 and weight training. I just started keeping track of all of this stuff, but last week I lost 2 pounds. My arms, chest and legs feel bigger to me so I seem to be building muscle while losing fat.
It seems to me, with what little understanding I have of physiology, that if I am using more calories than I am taking in my stored fat will make up the difference. Why should that process keep me from building muscle? I have a fair amount of muscle, more than average anyway, and my body fat % is in the upper teens. My goal is to lose 10% of it in the next two months.
I'll have to keep it up and see what happens. Either way I'm not going to stop what I'm doing because I want to at least keep the muscle that I have while losing fat.
I've never heard of Athlean though.

you lost body fat which revealed the muscle that you already have…

losing fat AND building muscle are diametrically opposed to one another. You need a calorie surplus to build new muscle, because you want to build something new out of nothing. you need a calorie deficit to lose fat. To say that you can build new muscle and lose fat at the same time, is like saying you can build a house and tear it down at the same time. ..

i find it pretty hard to believe that you are burning 1200 calories a day ANd building new muscle..

an obese beginner can have "newbie" gains but after a few months that ceases...

ndj1979

oh and LOL at "positive nitrogen balance"

skinnyinnotime

I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.

There was a girl on here quite a while back that started a thread on her transformation including pics of herself, she was ripped....she then went on to tell us that she trained with 3lb weights and ate at a deficit.

All the things everyone says can't happen did happen to her.....?!

Chris_Pierce

I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.

prattiger65

I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.

There are also folks, like me, who have tried to do this because I didn't want to believe it either. I have managed to retain most of my lean mass by lifting heavy and getting enough protein. I have yet to see a post from someone who said they ate at a deficit for a year or whatever and added any mass. I'm sure there are some out there, but I haven't seen it.

jewdaism

I experienced an increase of 40 lbs on my squat on my first couple weeks of dieting, while losing about 10 pounds. I really think it has to do with timing, having an ample fat supply and having a previous consistent lifting routine. Obviously as you approach lower body fat thresholds, the harder it is to do. Just my experience.

waldo56

I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.

The problem with "recomposition" is that there are very, very, very few success stories. The vast majority that try it give up in frustration eventually.

Muscle gain even in optimal conditions is an agonizingly slow process. Cut down to growth raters that are a fraction of optimal speed and INCREASE the diet commitment demands (esp. if carb cycling) and you can see why success stories are few and far between.

For every 1 recomp success story there are half a dozen I tried and gave up because it didn't/barely worked.

mrdexter1

I've done some reading on this now. There are a lot of folks talking about body "recomposition" I don't think that it's out of the question for people who have not already reached the limits of their biology (most of us)
It seems like maybe there are folks here who like to parrot what they've read in the internet without actually trying things for themselves. Like I said before I'll see how this goes for me long term. But currently I'm lifting heavier, I'm thinner and I'm eating a deficit.

The problem with "recomposition" is that there are very, very, very few success stories. The vast majority that try it give up in frustration eventually.

Muscle gain even in optimal conditions is an agonizingly slow process. Cut down to growth raters that are a fraction of optimal speed and INCREASE the diet commitment demands (esp. if carb cycling) and you can see why success stories are few and far between.

For every 1 recomp success story there are half a dozen I tried and gave up because it didn't/barely worked.

very factual.

Seems to me two things are necessary to be successful, one being learning how to bulk and the other I used to find infinitely more demanding, learning how to diet, both on a personal level.

With both of those optimised and tailored to your individual lifestyle, I see no point in using a handicapped slow process of lean bulking or bulking while cutting if either are possible to sustain due to the strict nature of the process.

Galatea_Stone

Recomposition worked for me for about 6 months or so, but even at 120 pounds, I had a high body fat percent and no real muscle mass to speak of. After 6 months, I looked pretty good and was smaller at the same weight, but I didn't get the results I wanted. The biggest change in my body came when I went on a bulk.

For someone with a lot of fat to lose, eating at a deficit while lifting is the best idea. Bulking with a high body fat percent isn't the best idea because the person will keep adding to the fat stores and not optimize muscle growth. This works great for people who start out obese, but for people who fall into the skinny-fat category, it's a much harder process. A skinny-fat person needs to bulk, obviously, but doing a body recomposition for a while before a bulk can show good results.

JoRocka

I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.

There was a girl on here quite a while back that started a thread on her transformation including pics of herself, she was ripped....she then went on to tell us that she trained with 3lb weights and ate at a deficit.

All the things everyone says can't happen did happen to her.....?!

being ripped is not the same has having built solid muscle and GAINED size.

You can be ripped and be very small (figure/fitness girls are a good example) bikini models for promo adds- often are this way. Lean- look well muscled because they have low body fat- but if you look at their actual structure- it's incredibly small- they have no size.

Anyone who wants to put on size- will wind up cutting and bulking- it's the most efficient way to do an already lengthy (and well proven) process.

kdiamond

This is interesting to me because I'm currently doing a ton of cardio (1000-1200 calories a day) eating a deficit of around 1000 and weight training. I just started keeping track of all of this stuff, but last week I lost 2 pounds. My arms, chest and legs feel bigger to me so I seem to be building muscle while losing fat.
It seems to me, with what little understanding I have of physiology, that if I am using more calories than I am taking in my stored fat will make up the difference. Why should that process keep me from building muscle? I have a fair amount of muscle, more than average anyway, and my body fat % is in the upper teens. My goal is to lose 10% of it in the next two months.
I'll have to keep it up and see what happens. Either way I'm not going to stop what I'm doing because I want to at least keep the muscle that I have while losing fat.
I've never heard of Athlean though.

you lost body fat which revealed the muscle that you already have…

losing fat AND building muscle are diametrically opposed to one another. You need a calorie surplus to build new muscle, because you want to build something new out of nothing. you need a calorie deficit to lose fat. To say that you can build new muscle and lose fat at the same time, is like saying you can build a house and tear it down at the same time. ..

i find it pretty hard to believe that you are burning 1200 calories a day ANd building new muscle..

an obese beginner can have "newbie" gains but after a few months that ceases...

Agreed. My guess is that 2200 calories with all the running you're doing is NOT maintenance, you're probably in a huge deficit actually, you're a big guy. I'm a little shrimp and a woman and my maintenance is around 2000.

You can't build muscle in a deficit. You might be able to hang on to muscle and recomp at maintenance, but in your case you're in a deficit so you'll most likely lose some muscle.

walkinthedogs

I've never really understood this myself. If I am strength training and adding weights every couple weeks so I know I'm able to lift more, how is that different from gaining muscle. If I'm getting stronger doesn't that mean I'm building muscle?