Athlean Bulking while Cutting

ndj1979

Nitrogen. It's an element. Atomic number 7. N. Science.

Yep, one of the most important and most forgotten about...and not really in much chemical components of carbs and fats by basic and even complex definitions. DNA can't replicate with carbs and fats alone. Ahhh...

CHNOPS.

It's kind of hard to avoid if you eat formerly living things - which is what fat and protein are. It's in the air. Is it something I need to worry about?

Ok. I looked it up. I'm even more confused. All it means is that you eat more protein than you burn. It doesn't sound like rocket science. Am I wrong?

they just spruced it up to make it sound "scientific" …

positive nitrogen balance sounds better then just eat more protein then you burn ...

chrisdavey

Nobody says it's impossible to lose fat and gain muscle just that it is rare and only happens in certain circumstances:
1. noob
2. muscle memory (sounds like old mate above)
3. drugs

Strength gains =/= hypertrophy. (especially for relatively noobs)

There is no method of tracking LBM/BF% that is 100% accurate. Dexa is the most accurate but still has elements of inconsistency (machines can be calibrated)

If you are very lean and your measurements increase without visible fat increase then you could assume that you have gained some LBM. Putting an exact number on how much is nearly impossible though.

And agreed with the above, that even in cases where people do gain muscle while losing fat they are talking minimal amounts in most cases.

I had a guy from a 12 week challenge try and tell me that he gained 8kg of muscle in 12 weeks based off caliper readings. Hmm...slightly optimistic I'd say.

atari3d

Chris_Pierce wrote: »

I've read in other older threads here on mfp that there is a small % folks who can add muscle while losing weight. Could it be that I am one of the lucky few?
I'm going to do some more reading on this. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that everyone and their mothers are saying what is happening to me is impossible.

I’ve heard lots of people’s mother’s say this before also, and, the whole thing has me pretty confused. My friend andre’s mother even told me I should just bulk dirty, but I just feel she did an awful job raising André anyway so I’m actually probably not gonna go by what she says

Spadesheart

Holy old thread revival Batman!

Well, now that it's here; you can absolutely build muscle while losing weight. There is some math here that is individualized that we don't fully understand, but you absolutely can do it. I know this because I have over the last year.

There is some data extrapolated from the Minnesota starvation experiments that estimate a rate of weight loss that we could have that would be from fat mass which was something like 69 calories per kg of fat mass per day. With proper stimulus and nutrition, you can build muscle on the way down, as this fat is food to your body. So long as you are in the position where your body can make up the excess needs with your own fat, you can build muscle. Add to this how untrained you may be, and you can build relatively quickly, assuming you're getting adequate protein.

Now this is individualized, and I'm sure there's some more complicated stuff at work here, but the idea that you absolutely can't build muscle on the way down isn't exactly true. Now I can see why someone might think that when they literally have very little fat to give, but there's still a pretty substantial leeway.

Here's a picture, one from December and one 2 months ago after about 60-65 pounds of loss. Weight training to this point was about 4 days a week, with 1-2 days of cardio. Now I am strategically blocking a bit of gynocomastia, and obviously sucking in a bit, but I've definitely built some muscle. And I can even measure growth as my arms and legs literally got thicker at points. There was a 2 month period where I added an inch to the thickest part of my arm. I've had to take a slight break to heal some odd injuries, but I will be starting up again in force soon.

allother94

Your saying the you can gain muscle during a cut if you can burn some fat to cover the muscle growth? For example, if you burn 2400 cals, eat 2000 cals, and use fat restore to create 600 cals, you a can use the extra 200 cals of energy to create muscle?

Do you think the opposite is true when you stop lifting? For example, you burn 2400 cals, eat 2400 cals, but you body “eats” 200 cals worth of muscles and convert the 200 cals to fat.

Spadesheart

allother94 wrote: »

Your saying the you can gain muscle during a cut if you can burn some fat to cover the muscle growth? For example, if you burn 2400 cals, eat 2000 cals, and use fat restore to create 600 cals, you a can use the extra 200 cals of energy to create muscle?

Do you think the opposite is true when you stop lifting? For example, you burn 2400 cals, eat 2400 cals, but you body “eats” 200 cals worth of muscles and convert the 200 cals to fat.

Oh that's an interesting thought, I wonder if that actually is how the mechanism works in regards to building muscle. Like the gap between your potential rate of fat loss and your actual weight loss is the space in which you could potentially build muscle. I honestly don't know, I've never thought of it in those terms, but that does make logical sense. There are a lot of variables, I know that at some point, this kind of math goes funky for some people, especially very athletic people.

You're muscle is not made for energy storage, your fat is. If you have enough fat on your body to make up the deficit, and the fat can collectively give off energy at a rate greater than your calorie deficit, then to your body you are essentially eating at maintenance. People in a calorie deficit are essentially on a high fat diet, lol.

I think muscle loss is probably a bit more complicated. Some of it probably works a lot like water weight loss, as I know more stimulated muscles retain water, some of it is likely just erosion from just not being needed. In modernity, nobody really "needs" to be jacked. Your body want's to be efficient and efficiently use resources, so I imagine it would lose muscle if it's not being used, or stimulated as a means of self preservation. That's just a guess though.

This is all conjecture and educated guesses, but it does make a lot of sense. Who knows! However it has been working for me all year, here's hoping it keeps working for a bit longer.

cupcakesandproteinshakes

Soadesheart. I haven’t read all this thread. Your progress is awesome whatever mechanism people on the thread have been debating.

Spadesheart

cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »

Soadesheart. I haven’t read all this thread. Your progress is awesome whatever mechanism people on the thread have been debating.

Thank you! I have been dragging my feet starting back up again, but I will be come Monday. No injuries anymore, but hello awful DOMS for about a month while I work volume back up haha