Broscience FTW

QueenBishOTUniverse

Simply stated though, unless you have a medical conditions like PCOD or whatever it is, the laws of thermodynamics apply to you, you are not a special snowflake when it comes to weight loss...you may be a special snowflake in other areas of your life, but not here..

Even then the laws of thermodynamics apply. It's just a matter of what number of calories you need and hormones CAN affect that.

Either way, your body needs a certain number of calories for basic functioning and more for activity and if you are ingestnig fewer than you're expending, you will lose weight.

This.

The equation is always the same, the values for the variables are different for every single person, but the equation is ALWAYS the same!

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

We then got into the issue of "a calorie is not a calorie," and while I acknowledged that different foods have different nutrient densities, I insisted that, barring a medical condition that would prevent normal weight loss, a calorie deficit WILL result in weight loss because, ya know, thermodynamics. She said this was wrong, since almost everyone has "undiagnosed food allergies," which is causing inflammation that stops weight loss from happening.

You could always point to people who lost weight while reducing portions of "inflammatory" foods. Or those who lost weight simply by exercising more, while still eating the same non-paleo processed foods.

I wouldn't give up on her. She mentioned "studies", so she has SOME respect for science. Maybe tap into that by looking at the actual studies with her on PubMed.

Besides, most versions of "paleo" are pretty decent, and she implied that she eats healthy, so i wouldn't alienate her. She's our ally in the war on fat.

The person I know who makes these kind of arguments just says that they're doomed to gain it back because restricting calories never works and when they stop torturing themselves they'll regain.

Funny-- to me trying to go paleo would be torture.

I'm a baker.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

We then got into the issue of "a calorie is not a calorie," and while I acknowledged that different foods have different nutrient densities, I insisted that, barring a medical condition that would prevent normal weight loss, a calorie deficit WILL result in weight loss because, ya know, thermodynamics. She said this was wrong, since almost everyone has "undiagnosed food allergies," which is causing inflammation that stops weight loss from happening.

Ah, isn't misinformation great?

Which medical conditions allow one to violate the laws of thermodynamics?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC506782/

Acg67

We then got into the issue of "a calorie is not a calorie," and while I acknowledged that different foods have different nutrient densities, I insisted that, barring a medical condition that would prevent normal weight loss, a calorie deficit WILL result in weight loss because, ya know, thermodynamics. She said this was wrong, since almost everyone has "undiagnosed food allergies," which is causing inflammation that stops weight loss from happening.

Ah, isn't misinformation great?

Which medical conditions allow one to violate the laws of thermodynamics?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC506782/

LMAO Feinman and Fine

http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/07/a-feinman-fine-mess-of-thermodynamics.html

Strokingdiction

Dump her.

Collier78

Simply stated though, unless you have a medical conditions like PCOD or whatever it is, the laws of thermodynamics apply to you, you are not a special snowflake when it comes to weight loss...you may be a special snowflake in other areas of your life, but not here..

Even then the laws of thermodynamics apply. It's just a matter of what number of calories you need and hormones CAN affect that.

Either way, your body needs a certain number of calories for basic functioning and more for activity and if you are ingestnig fewer than you're expending, you will lose weight.

This.

The equation is always the same, the values for the variables are different for every single person, but the equation is ALWAYS the same!

I agree with both of you, my ability to put thoughts into coherent sentences is not functioning properly today. :happy:

ninerbuff

You got it easy. I work in a gym where some peers still believe some of that **** and pass it on to their clients.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Crateria_

I've gotten into this with an old co worker. It's pretty frustrating.

doug_pierce

Off topic but new vid out yesterday; One of his better ones IMHO - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzxRhtZLItY

MityMax96

^^This for sure.
That is how I got where I am.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Don't knock it, till you try it.

abbylg1983

Yeah, I wish I would have been on myfitness pal in 2011, when two posters on another fitness message board got into it about the whole calories in/calories out debate. Despite the fact that Poster #1 patiently explained that she lost 35 pounds by eating everything in moderation and posting before and after pics, Poster #2 insisted that "science" dictated that calories in vs. calories out had very little to do with your weight and that even if you only consumed 500 calories a day, if those 500 calories consisted of Special K, you would never get skinny.

Poster #1 gave up. I think you'll have to with your friend as well. If she's eating very strict paleo she most likely is not eating at a surplus and will never be able to prove or disprove her theory.

explosivedonut

Today I got into an argument with a friend about nutrition, which is a mistake because this particular friend is a big believer in broscience nonsense. She often touts myths without knowing much about science or nutrition.

So today she insisted that you can lose weight while on a surplus as long as you're eating paleo. She vehemently insisted that a calorie deficit is not the only way to lose weight; as long as you're eating "healthy food," you can eat as much as you want (even when it exceeds your daily caloric needs). She knows this because "they've done studies" and "each person is different."

We then got into the issue of "a calorie is not a calorie," and while I acknowledged that different foods have different nutrient densities, I insisted that, barring a medical condition that would prevent normal weight loss, a calorie deficit WILL result in weight loss because, ya know, thermodynamics. She said this was wrong, since almost everyone has "undiagnosed food allergies," which is causing inflammation that stops weight loss from happening.

Ah, isn't misinformation great?

My mother has the healthiest diet of anyone I know and she's been obese almost her entire life.

Then she doesn't have a healthy diet. Part of health is moderation. Eating an apple a day is healthy, eating 30 is not.

JoRocka

Egads.


ETA: Obviously she is wrong. I also have my own n=1 to contradict it as I ate very strict "paleo" for all of 2012 and (intentionally) added ~20 pounds by eating above my TDEE. I also lost almost as much the following year by eating whatever I wanted but just under my TDEE. (Yeah, I bulked on strict paleo then cut on IIFYM. #DoingItWrong )

ballsy

<hatisofftoyousir>

RllyGudTweetr

I generally just give up when it comes to people like that. It doesn't matter how much scientific evidence you throw at people, they refuse to believe it and they're not interested in any 'truths' that aren't their own.

I read a study recently that basically found that if you use science to prove psuedoscience wrong, the believer will cling to it even more tightly.

So it's hopeless, pretty much.

they should do a study on the 'rage quit cycle'

They tried to, but gave up in frustration 1/2 way through.

katro111

I have a friend like this. She's a personal trainer and is great at coming up with challenging, fun workouts, but when she starts giving out advice on what/how to eat, I want to stab myself in the eye with a fork.

Examples: Don't eat carbs after 2pm. Any carbs. Even vegetables. Don't eat anything after 7pm. Ever. You will gain weight.

Just today she has proclaimed that lean pork is not a healthy meat... WTF?

ashleyisgreat

UPDATE: my friend says her skin has magically cleared up after eating a strict paleo diet for a week.

1. It hasn't cleared up.

2. What?

meganjcallaghan

one less person who believes everything they see on Facebook is a huge victory for humanity!

preach.

ashleyisgreat

We then got into the issue of "a calorie is not a calorie," and while I acknowledged that different foods have different nutrient densities, I insisted that, barring a medical condition that would prevent normal weight loss, a calorie deficit WILL result in weight loss because, ya know, thermodynamics. She said this was wrong, since almost everyone has "undiagnosed food allergies," which is causing inflammation that stops weight loss from happening.

Ah, isn't misinformation great?

Which medical conditions allow one to violate the laws of thermodynamics?

What I meant was that certain conditions can make weight loss more complicated/difficult, and for them it's a matter of figuring out those other things (like the condition itself, along with medications and their resulting side effects, etc) on top of also figuring out what kind of deficit they need in order to lose weight effectively. Sorry for the confusion.

Kitship

UPDATE: my friend says her skin has magically cleared up after eating a strict paleo diet for a week.

1. It hasn't cleared up.

2. What?

:laugh:

rml_16

Today I got into an argument with a friend about nutrition, which is a mistake because this particular friend is a big believer in broscience nonsense. She often touts myths without knowing much about science or nutrition.

So today she insisted that you can lose weight while on a surplus as long as you're eating paleo. She vehemently insisted that a calorie deficit is not the only way to lose weight; as long as you're eating "healthy food," you can eat as much as you want (even when it exceeds your daily caloric needs). She knows this because "they've done studies" and "each person is different."

We then got into the issue of "a calorie is not a calorie," and while I acknowledged that different foods have different nutrient densities, I insisted that, barring a medical condition that would prevent normal weight loss, a calorie deficit WILL result in weight loss because, ya know, thermodynamics. She said this was wrong, since almost everyone has "undiagnosed food allergies," which is causing inflammation that stops weight loss from happening.

Ah, isn't misinformation great?

My mother has the healthiest diet of anyone I know and she's been obese almost her entire life.

Then she doesn't have a healthy diet. Part of health is moderation. Eating an apple a day is healthy, eating 30 is not.

Clearly I am a drooling idiot and had NO IDEA of this. BAER

That was my point. The claim was calories don't matter if you eat the right foods.

Natmarie73

OP why are you arguing with your friend? If she doesn't agree with you and you want to keep her as a friend then let it be. You don't need to "save" her, or "convert" her or even educate her. Just be a friend and when she asks you what you are doing to successfully lose weight tell her in a non-judgemental way and she might even start to accept what you have to tell her.

You can't force people to believe what you want them to believe so IMO it would be better to avoid any conversations with her about things you disagree on, unless of course you want to get into a verbal stoush and alienate her.

I'm assuming there are other aspects of her personality that have attracted you to her as a friend so focus on those, and leave the arguing for MFP.

P.S, I hope she isn't a member of this forum and finds out you are bagging her all over the internet :embarassed:

ndj1979

OP why are you arguing with your friend? If she doesn't agree with you and you want to keep her as a friend then let it be. You don't need to "save" her, or "convert" her or even educate her. Just be a friend and when she asks you what you are doing to successfully lose weight tell her in a non-judgemental way and she might even start to accept what you have to tell her.

You can't force people to believe what you want them to believe so IMO it would be better to avoid any conversations with her about things you disagree on, unless of course you want to get into a verbal stoush and alienate her.

I'm assuming there are other aspects of her personality that have attracted you to her as a friend so focus on those, and leave the arguing for MFP.

P.S, I hope she isn't a member of this forum and finds out you are bagging her all over the internet :embarassed:

I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

jofjltncb6

OP why are you arguing with your friend? If she doesn't agree with you and you want to keep her as a friend then let it be. You don't need to "save" her, or "convert" her or even educate her. Just be a friend and when she asks you what you are doing to successfully lose weight tell her in a non-judgemental way and she might even start to accept what you have to tell her.

You can't force people to believe what you want them to believe so IMO it would be better to avoid any conversations with her about things you disagree on, unless of course you want to get into a verbal stoush and alienate her.

I'm assuming there are other aspects of her personality that have attracted you to her as a friend so focus on those, and leave the arguing for MFP.

P.S, I hope she isn't a member of this forum and finds out you are bagging her all over the internet :embarassed:

I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

Indeed. I would challenge my friends on something like this...

...and if at the end we still disagree, then we can decide to still be friends...

...probably.

Natmarie73

I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

Why?

LiftAllThePizzas

I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

Why?

Because it's true.

ashleyisgreat

I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

Why?

There are lots of things that come down to personal preference, such as her decision to do a paleo/primal thing. That's cool, and although I wouldn't want to do it myself, I wouldn't bash her for it. But MAN, saying that you can eat at a surplus and still lose weight--that is a pretty egregious error and I can't remain silent on something like that. I value education and knowledge. It's an important aspect in both of our lives. We are both pursuing PhDs and information and knowledge ought to matter to us. It should matter to everyone, actually, but it seems particularly shocking that someone who is devoting their life to higher education could be so adamantly misinformed.

neandermagnon

Today I got into an argument with a friend about nutrition, which is a mistake because this particular friend is a big believer in broscience nonsense. She often touts myths without knowing much about science or nutrition.

So today she insisted that you can lose weight while on a surplus as long as you're eating paleo.

Tell her that if this was true, all the "cavemen" would have starved to death and we wouldn't have evolved.

I mean, if they're constantly losing weight eating a palaeolithic diet even when in calorie surplus, then they're going to starve to death, poor things. :sad:

If they ate at a surplus, they gained weight. They didn't get fat because they had to hunt and gather their food before they could eat it. And there would have been times of the year when food was short and they slowly lost weight because they were in a deficit, and times of the year when food would have been more plentiful and they would have eaten at a surplus because they're very very hungry and so regained the weight they lost, which mostly would have been muscle gains due to the amount of exercise they do finding food (though some fat gain as well because fat is very important for surviving the times of the year when there was less food).

neandermagnon

I think when someone says calorie deficit does not matter and you do need it t lose weight that, that needs to be challenged..

Why?

because of the sheer number of people who say "I'm doing everything right but still not losing weight, why?"

fact is they have a very healthy lifestyle - balanced diet, plenty of exercise, etc.... but they're not losing because they're not in calorie deficit. Result: extreme frustration. Solution: log food, create a sensible deficit, lose weight.

Showcase_Brodown

So do the shape-shifting lizard aliens do a paleo lifestyle, or more of a modern diet? What's their body composition like? For some reason PubMed is drawing a blank on this topic. Probably a conspiracy.

astartig

Wow op, you're friends with my mom..

drives me NUTS