Paleo.
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(And it's my own personal opinion, but I still say that until someone has reached a goal weight and maintained it for a sufficient period of time, they honestly don't know if their method works or not (even for themselves, let alone for others). They may have *ideas* about it, but no actual firsthand knowledge of it.
Don't misunderstand...I'm not saying these people don't have a voice and that they should be ignored...or that third-hand knowledge is meaningless...but their firsthand experience of the effectiveness of their approach is nothing more than theory at this point.)0 -
(And it's my own personal opinion, but I still say that until someone has reached a goal weight and maintained it for a sufficient period of time, they honestly don't know if their method works or not (even for themselves, let alone for others). They may have *ideas* about it, but no actual firsthand knowledge of it.
Don't misunderstand...I'm not saying these people don't have a voice and that they should be ignored...or that third-hand knowledge is meaningless...but their firsthand experience of the effectiveness of their approach is nothing more than theory at this point.)
Since your ticker suggests that you are not at your goal weight, does that mean that we should be wary of any advice from you and consider it as "nothing more than theory at this point"?0 -
(And it's my own personal opinion, but I still say that until someone has reached a goal weight and maintained it for a sufficient period of time, they honestly don't know if their method works or not (even for themselves, let alone for others). They may have *ideas* about it, but no actual firsthand knowledge of it.
Don't misunderstand...I'm not saying these people don't have a voice and that they should be ignored...or that third-hand knowledge is meaningless...but their firsthand experience of the effectiveness of their approach is nothing more than theory at this point.)
Since your ticker suggests that you are not at your goal weight, does that mean that we should be wary of any advice from you and consider it as "nothing more than theory at this point"?
LOLyeah...I know nothing about reaching and maintaining certain weights with purpose and precision. If only had had years of data to support this.
But seriously, did I say anything about ticker? (Which, to be clear, I'm THREE pounds from goal weight, essentially in the MOE.) Perhaps you misread my post. I guess I should now patronize you and your reading comprehension as you seem so inclined to do when others don't read one of your posts exactly as you meant for it to be read.
Nah. I know how pointless that would be.
TL;DR - I'll put my open diary with years of consistently reaching and maintaining my goals (be it bulking, cutting or maintaining) against those with closed diaries, grey avis, and ideas. (In case anyone is truly curious about where I currently am in this process, I'm near the end of a 8-12ish week cut (which is why I'm 3ish pounds from goal) and eagerly looking forward to a summer of maintenance and a winter of growth.)0 -
(And it's my own personal opinion, but I still say that until someone has reached a goal weight and maintained it for a sufficient period of time, they honestly don't know if their method works or not (even for themselves, let alone for others). They may have *ideas* about it, but no actual firsthand knowledge of it.
Don't misunderstand...I'm not saying these people don't have a voice and that they should be ignored...or that third-hand knowledge is meaningless...but their firsthand experience of the effectiveness of their approach is nothing more than theory at this point.)
How someone feels on a cut and what's helping them achieve a caloric deficit isn't really a "theory" that needs to be tested. You're acting like weight loss is a new breakthrough area of science where we're still experimenting with hypotheses and testing out new theories... but at the end of the day, the basics of weight loss are pretty simple (not to say it's easy). Long term success/maintenance is a separate matter entirely and comes down to prioritizing health/fitness in your life and a test of willpower over time. People "fail" at maintenance all the time but it's illogical to think that this is somehow indicative of the efficacy of their method of cutting weight. People fail for any number of reasons, with complacency after reaching their goal weight being #1 if I had to guess.
Extending your logic a bit further, that means the average gym bro's advice would be more credible than, say, Lyle McDonald's advice on bodybuilding, since obviously the gym bro has put on more mass than Lyle and has kept it on for a longer period of time. Obviously the bro in question has that crucial firsthand experience and has tested his theory of gaining mass, right? You're entitled to your opinion, but I'll keep reading Lyle's articles even though he's not the biggest guy around.
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(And it's my own personal opinion, but I still say that until someone has reached a goal weight and maintained it for a sufficient period of time, they honestly don't know if their method works or not (even for themselves, let alone for others). They may have *ideas* about it, but no actual firsthand knowledge of it.
Don't misunderstand...I'm not saying these people don't have a voice and that they should be ignored...or that third-hand knowledge is meaningless...but their firsthand experience of the effectiveness of their approach is nothing more than theory at this point.)
How someone feels on a cut and what's helping them achieve a caloric deficit isn't really a "theory" that needs to be tested. You're acting like weight loss is a new breakthrough area of science where we're still experimenting with hypotheses and testing out new theories... but at the end of the day, the basics of weight loss are pretty simple (not to say it's easy). Long term success/maintenance is a separate matter entirely and comes down to prioritizing health/fitness in your life and a test of willpower over time. People "fail" at maintenance all the time but it's illogical to think that this is somehow indicative of the efficacy of their method of cutting weight. People fail for any number of reasons, with complacency after reaching their goal weight being #1 if I had to guess.
Extending your logic a bit further, that means the average gym bro's advice would be more credible than, say, Lyle McDonald's advice on bodybuilding, since obviously the gym bro has put on more mass than Lyle and has kept it on for a longer period of time. Obviously the bro in question has that crucial firsthand experience and has tested his theory of gaining mass, right? You're entitled to your opinion, but I'll keep reading Lyle's articles even though he's not the biggest guy around.
I actually *do* believe that *how* goal is reached affects the ability to maintain it (or not).
And it isn't a sliding scale I'm arguing for, it's a litmus test.
Using your example: Lyle is able to achieve and maintain his goals. Therefore, I'm inclined to listen to him more than someone who hasn't. Gym bro is able to achieve and maintain his goals. Therefore, I'm inclined to listen to him more than someone who hasn't.
This isn't an argument for who should and should not share their views on the topic...but it's something that *I* believe is relevant in discerning who to listen to when the advice differs.0 -
To fall back on your assumption of someone's current "goals" and your perception of whether they've met them, rather than how well-supported their position is (or isn't), is a bit of a cop-out in my opinion. There are plenty of healthy people that know nothing about nutrition and offer up horrible advice as a result. To bring it back to this thread with an example, there are plenty of people eat a paleo diet, stay active and healthy, and believe they're such because they're eating what cavemen ate. That's nonsense, but they'd certainly pass your superficial litmus test. I guess what I'm saying is at the end of the day, adults should be able to have a conversation without getting into a pissing contest over their credentials. If someone's not supporting their position, attack their position; not them. As soon as you start up with "Oh you aren't persuasive grey-pictured poster because you haven't succeeded with your goals," that's going after the poster rather than the post. While we all have sources we consider more or less credible, there's a difference between thinking it and posting it.
As for "reaching your goals", goals are wherever you set them. Some are overly modest while others are overly ambitious, which makes "accomplishing your goals" rather meaningless. If you want to talk goals, you can point to Lyle's speed skating past and argue that he failed at his goals when it comes to the Olympic trials because he didn't qualify after years of training. And so what? Does that make his opinion any less worthwhile? Not at all - at least not in my opinion.0 -
To fall back on your assumption of someone's current "goals" and your perception of whether they've met them, rather than how well-supported their position is (or isn't), is a bit of a cop-out in my opinion. There are plenty of healthy people that know nothing about nutrition and offer up horrible advice as a result. To bring it back to this thread with an example, there are plenty of people eat a paleo diet, stay active and healthy, and believe they're such because they're eating what cavemen ate. That's nonsense, but they'd certainly pass your superficial litmus test. I guess what I'm saying is at the end of the day, adults should be able to have a conversation without getting into a pissing contest over their credentials. If someone's not supporting their position, attack their position; not them. As soon as you start up with "Oh you aren't persuasive grey-pictured poster because you haven't succeeded with your goals," that's going after the poster rather than the post. While we all have sources we consider more or less credible, there's a difference between thinking it and posting it.
As for "reaching your goals", goals are wherever you set them. Some are overly modest while others are overly ambitious, which makes "accomplishing your goals" rather meaningless. If you want to talk goals, you can point to Lyle's speed skating past and argue that he failed at his goals when it comes to the Olympic trials because he didn't qualify after years of training. And so what? Does that make his opinion any less worthwhile? Not at all - at least not in my opinion.
It's *my* litmus test specifically for whether or not I put any credence in what someone is sharing about *their personal experience* of what "works" and what doesn't. Sure, it isn't the entire picture, but it's *my* starting point and I sticking with it.
You're welcome to have your own approach to these discussions.
Of course, you're also welcome to continue nitpicking mine.0 -
Not to change the subject, but I would like to thank paleo for introducing me to Kerrygold butter. Any plain old butter is delicious, but Kerrygold takes it to a whole other level (and has nearly ruined other inferior butters for me).0
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I stole this from a member of a group I belong to on Facebook and it cracked me up. This is the best description of Paleo dieting I have ever seen!!!
"Just remember, plant oils are BAD because they're unsaturated fats, except for coconut oil and palm oil because they're saturated and that is GOOD. And butter and beef tallow and lard are animal fats and thus GOOD, don't think about the fact that they're all >51% unsaturated fatty acids. Oh and nuts and seeds are GOOD, except peanuts which are BAD, and the fact that they're all chock-full of unsaturated plant oils that we just told you to avoid is totally irrelevant. Also, grains and legumes are BAD, because they're the mature embryos of plants, which is BAD unless it's a nut or seed (which are also the mature embryos of plants) in which case it's GOOD. Lastly, dairy from cows and goats and sheep and camels and horses is a neolithic invention and thus BAD, unless you're talking about clarified butter in which case it's GOOD and you need to put that **** in your coffee instead of cream, but don't you dare put it on a slice of toast, unless you made that toast from almond flour or coconut flour. Totally clear."
Why do I always end up defending Paleo? :laugh:
A lot of the reasons listed here of why things are "good" and "bad" aren't really the "reasons".
And peanuts are legumes, not nuts.
so can we start calling them pealegumes?!?0 -
To fall back on your assumption of someone's current "goals" and your perception of whether they've met them, rather than how well-supported their position is (or isn't), is a bit of a cop-out in my opinion. There are plenty of healthy people that know nothing about nutrition and offer up horrible advice as a result. To bring it back to this thread with an example, there are plenty of people eat a paleo diet, stay active and healthy, and believe they're such because they're eating what cavemen ate. That's nonsense, but they'd certainly pass your superficial litmus test. I guess what I'm saying is at the end of the day, adults should be able to have a conversation without getting into a pissing contest over their credentials. If someone's not supporting their position, attack their position; not them. As soon as you start up with "Oh you aren't persuasive grey-pictured poster because you haven't succeeded with your goals," that's going after the poster rather than the post. While we all have sources we consider more or less credible, there's a difference between thinking it and posting it.
As for "reaching your goals", goals are wherever you set them. Some are overly modest while others are overly ambitious, which makes "accomplishing your goals" rather meaningless. If you want to talk goals, you can point to Lyle's speed skating past and argue that he failed at his goals when it comes to the Olympic trials because he didn't qualify after years of training. And so what? Does that make his opinion any less worthwhile? Not at all - at least not in my opinion.
Thank you. The voice of reason. :flowerforyou:0 -
LOL everyone who says they are paleo says they are not "strictly" paleo. which is funny b/c it is never clearly defined and so thus no one is strictly paleo, and so thus its not even really a thing, and so why "paleo", why not..." I eat this that and the other and not thems these and those and thats how I lose weight." Why call it paleo?0
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LOL everyone who says they are paleo says they are not "strictly" paleo. which is funny b/c it is never clearly defined and so thus no one is strictly paleo, and so thus its not even really a thing, and so why "paleo", why not..." I eat this that and the other and not thems these and those and thats how I lose weight." Why call it paleo?
because….
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I hope that sigh wasn't directed at my response.
You use "count" in present tense where I bolded.
Therefore, I could only assume that you presently count calories.
Now you are saying that you don't.
I'm not even being unkind here; I simply can not possibly be expected to understand what you mean by the things you say here, as every statement contradicts the previous.
Is it really that hard to understand what she meant? She's saying that she naturally eats less with her current restrictive diet, almost certainly due to the satiating foods she's eating. She's also saying that she found it difficult to hit her restricted caloric target when she was not avoiding particular foods/types of foods. You're acting like she's speaking a foreign language when her point seems relatively clear to me. Her experience also lines up with that of other people who have followed "restrictive" diets and find they can lose weight simply due to the satiating nature of their diet.
Oh hai, white knight.
You're reading your interpretation of what she is saying, not what she's actually saying.
Enjoy your butthurt.0 -
tell me more about this butter.Not to change the subject, but I would like to thank paleo for introducing me to Kerrygold butter. Any plain old butter is delicious, but Kerrygold takes it to a whole other level (and has nearly ruined other inferior butters for me).0 -
tell me more about this butter.Not to change the subject, but I would like to thank paleo for introducing me to Kerrygold butter. Any plain old butter is delicious, but Kerrygold takes it to a whole other level (and has nearly ruined other inferior butters for me).
MFP blog says butter is back. Just don't put it on rice cakes they are evil but not because they aren't paleo.0 -
I stole this from a member of a group I belong to on Facebook and it cracked me up. This is the best description of Paleo dieting I have ever seen!!!
"Just remember, plant oils are BAD because they're unsaturated fats, except for coconut oil and palm oil because they're saturated and that is GOOD. And butter and beef tallow and lard are animal fats and thus GOOD, don't think about the fact that they're all >51% unsaturated fatty acids. Oh and nuts and seeds are GOOD, except peanuts which are BAD, and the fact that they're all chock-full of unsaturated plant oils that we just told you to avoid is totally irrelevant. Also, grains and legumes are BAD, because they're the mature embryos of plants, which is BAD unless it's a nut or seed (which are also the mature embryos of plants) in which case it's GOOD. Lastly, dairy from cows and goats and sheep and camels and horses is a neolithic invention and thus BAD, unless you're talking about clarified butter in which case it's GOOD and you need to put that **** in your coffee instead of cream, but don't you dare put it on a slice of toast, unless you made that toast from almond flour or coconut flour. Totally clear."
should be made a sticky. :flowerforyou:
I think this sums it all up very nicely. Thank you.
Sheesh.. i think some concepts of paleo are good, but if its going to take remembering stuff like this, eff that. It sounded good up to thre point that it becomes akin to a religion and you go to hell for eating peanuts. Eff that.
I beleive low carb is good for me, HOWEVER, im not going to go all religious fanatic over it. sheesh.0 -
I stole this from a member of a group I belong to on Facebook and it cracked me up. This is the best description of Paleo dieting I have ever seen!!!
"Just remember, plant oils are BAD because they're unsaturated fats, except for coconut oil and palm oil because they're saturated and that is GOOD. And butter and beef tallow and lard are animal fats and thus GOOD, don't think about the fact that they're all >51% unsaturated fatty acids. Oh and nuts and seeds are GOOD, except peanuts which are BAD, and the fact that they're all chock-full of unsaturated plant oils that we just told you to avoid is totally irrelevant. Also, grains and legumes are BAD, because they're the mature embryos of plants, which is BAD unless it's a nut or seed (which are also the mature embryos of plants) in which case it's GOOD. Lastly, dairy from cows and goats and sheep and camels and horses is a neolithic invention and thus BAD, unless you're talking about clarified butter in which case it's GOOD and you need to put that **** in your coffee instead of cream, but don't you dare put it on a slice of toast, unless you made that toast from almond flour or coconut flour. Totally clear."
Why do I always end up defending Paleo? :laugh:
A lot of the reasons listed here of why things are "good" and "bad" aren't really the "reasons".
And peanuts are legumes, not nuts.
Mm. Now I want peanuts.0 -
Gah! I will not defend again, I'm going to get a reputation. :laugh:
But here is the link to the study. It was actually interesting, and did also have some positive things to say about the diet.
http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1576&context=ijes0 -
Oh hai, white knight.
You're reading your interpretation of what she is saying, not what she's actually saying.
Enjoy your butthurt.
How can I argue with such mature words of wisdom? I concede the point.0
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