Why did I gain a pound back if I didn't even eat!
Replies
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This is a disturbing little thread but it reminds me of an experience I had a few years ago. I was at my heaviest, around 140 lb. (I'm only 5'2" and my typical weight was more like 120-125) and was seeing one of the doctors in the practice I used to go to. I was complaining about being heavier and having a hard time losing because I was recovering from a foot injury. The first words out of the doctor's mouth was that he could prescribe something to help me lose. I turned him down, started to work out more, and went on Phase II of South Beach and lost the weight in about 6 months. Subsquently, I also switched doctor. Our OP may be as much a victim of the medical profession as her own emotional issues.0
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Responding to the points about Phentermine or any sort of drug based appetite suppression. I get the idea that you suppress your cravings so you can focus on building good habits with your diet and exercise. It sounds great in principle but there is a major flaw with that reasoning.
When you learn a behavior or a routine you have to learn it in the environment in which you are planning to operate in long term. If you want to be able to bench press free weight barbells you practice by bench pressing free weight barbells. If you instead use a machine that guides the bar you will *Seem* to make incredible gains but as soon as you actually try to switch to the environment you wanted (ie a free-weight barbell) you won't be able to lift it because all the synergistic muscles involved in balance would not have been developed.
Similarly when you try to behaviorally condition yourself to have better habits you have to do it in the environment you are going to naturally be in. If you are not planning on taking appetite suppressants for the rest of your life that means learning those behaviors while not on appetite suppressants. If you try to learn those behaviors while being ON an appetite suppressant it would be akin to doing bench with a machine. It seems to work great but as soon as you come off the suppressant you are going to realize that your trained behaviors were based completely on how you felt while being on that appetite suppressant and they will simply no longer apply when you come off of it.
People gravitate towards using machines to do bench press because its easier and you can make gains faster and feel like you are learning good habits and increasing your strength, but as soon as you switch to a free weight press all those gains vanish. Same with an appetite suppresent. Those "good habits" you are building most likely only work in combination with the drug.
Seriously the best example and real explanation of why my view is flawed. I am being 100% serious when I say that. Thank you!
It was explained very well, but it is basically the same thing everyone else has been saying all along. You are only delaying the inevitable, you will still have to do the work. I said it a page or two ago.0 -
youre not losing weight because you arent eating anything for your body to discard... bowel movements are a way of your body losing weight...
which is why they say to weigh in the mornings after you go to the bathroom.
you are clearly starving yourself the wrong way
get your diet under control
beef broth is not acceptable as a meal
goodness0 -
youre not losing weight because you arent eating anything for your body to discard... bowel movements are a way of your body losing weight...
lol wut? I'm pretty sure the major energy expenditure of your body is heat, not excrement. The very concept of the Calorie is based on the amount of energy it takes to heat one kilogram of water by 1 degree Celsius. The essential processes of your body all generate heat metabolically and that heat is constantly radiating into the environment. Its true that if you don't eat you aren't going to have bowel movements but that certainly doesn't mean you won't lose weight, what a ridiculous notion.
Also just because you don't eat doesn't mean your body doesn't produce waste. Your body is consuming something. If you eat its consuming the food, if you don't it is consuming you.0 -
Responding to the points about Phentermine or any sort of drug based appetite suppression. I get the idea that you suppress your cravings so you can focus on building good habits with your diet and exercise. It sounds great in principle but there is a major flaw with that reasoning.
When you learn a behavior or a routine you have to learn it in the environment in which you are planning to operate in long term. If you want to be able to bench press free weight barbells you practice by bench pressing free weight barbells. If you instead use a machine that guides the bar you will *Seem* to make incredible gains but as soon as you actually try to switch to the environment you wanted (ie a free-weight barbell) you won't be able to lift it because all the synergistic muscles involved in balance would not have been developed.
Similarly when you try to behaviorally condition yourself to have better habits you have to do it in the environment you are going to naturally be in. If you are not planning on taking appetite suppressants for the rest of your life that means learning those behaviors while not on appetite suppressants. If you try to learn those behaviors while being ON an appetite suppressant it would be akin to doing bench with a machine. It seems to work great but as soon as you come off the suppressant you are going to realize that your trained behaviors were based completely on how you felt while being on that appetite suppressant and they will simply no longer apply when you come off of it.
People gravitate towards using machines to do bench press because its easier and you can make gains faster and feel like you are learning good habits and increasing your strength, but as soon as you switch to a free weight press all those gains vanish. Same with an appetite suppresent. Those "good habits" you are building most likely only work in combination with the drug.
Seriously the best example and real explanation of why my view is flawed. I am being 100% serious when I say that. Thank you!
I don't fault you for wanting to lose the weight in whatever way you are capable of doing so. I get it, or at least I think I get it. I don't think you are stupid nor do I think it necessary to tell you you MUST do it this way and no other way will work. That said I have to agree with the sentiment of most of the posters here that appetite suppressants are going to hinder, not help, to build the habits necessary to keep at a healthy or fit weight for the rest of your life. I admittedly do not know the medical implications of being on an appetite suppressant long term but one poster mentioned that they are not prescribed or meant to be used for periods longer than 2 weeks and that is something you might want to look into as well.
Wearing water-wings when you are in the pool might keep you afloat but you aren't going to be able to actually learn how to swim until you take them off.0 -
OP, please talk to your doctor about your diet. I am on a medication to keep myself from having migraines and seizures. It was the absolute last resort to a horrible 2 years in and out of the hospital and work.
It takes away my hunger queues, meaning I am never hungry. Guess what? I log here so I DO eat! My friends remind me to eat, I set alarms on my phone to be sure I eat 3 times a day.
It is every bit as import to EAT as to not over eat. Your body needs food, and you are messing up your metabolism. It isn't too late yet, please PLEASE listen to what we are saying. Most of us have a lot of experience with this.
You are like me and don't have a lot to lose, so it will take a bit longer. I set up 4 meals a day, at about 300-400 a meal, depending on if I am working out or not. I have found that adding weight lifting to my routine makes me feel EMPOWERED!! Something I used to get from the pills when I was younger, and screwed up my system but good (ended up in the ER on an IV from Dexatrim or some stupid diet)
Veggies, Meat, Carbs. Because you are not hungry make sure you eat the protein first (it helps me anyway) then I eat my veggies, then if I am still open to food the carb ( sweet potatoes for example. due to allergies, I don't eat gluten so no bread or pasta :sad: )
You can DO this with the help of MFP! If some one says something that really bugs you, it is probably the MOST important thing for you to hear! :ohwell:
:flowerforyou: I really am worried about your health, as I ended in in the ER (as stated above) from doing something like your doing back in my younger years0 -
Yeah OP, if an appetite suppressive is prescribed I'm sure its intent is to help someone who is a habitual binge-eater to suppress cravings so that they can start to adopt a healthier eating style (like how that other poster is using it).
Its intent is NOT so that you can starve yourself without feeling hunger. That is not healthy and there is no way your doctor would have prescribed it to you knowing that was your intent.0 -
Get off phen, eat food, see your doctor.
That is all.
^---THIS0 -
have you heard of adaptive thermogenesis?
try researching it and you'll see why you haven't lost anything ... 0 -
have you heard of adaptive thermogenesis? try researching it and you'll see why you haven't lost anything ...
No. Adaptive thermogenesis or a lowering of the metabolism due to low caloric intake is at most going to decrease your BMR by like 15%, it will not account for not losing weight while eating nothing but beef broth.
Also I'm not sure how carefully you read the OP's post but she has lost close to 19 pounds in 16 days which is about as FAR from not losing anything as you could possibly get.0 -
its not only lowering. its about how your body responds to the environment you place it in. you eat more one day, your BMR will increase because your body will want to keep your weight within a certain range. obviously you can surplus this if you really eat a loooot more than what you usually eat
you also cannot say it lowers it down by at most 15%, the percentage is really so VARIABLE between individuals. which is why its usually left unmeasured.
however, for one thing you are right, i skimmed through her post (probably should have paid more attention to it) but nevertheless i stand behind what i said. if she doesn't eat its counterproductive, her body will hold on to whatever it can and she won't lose weight. Have you watched the biggest loser? Why do you think they lose so much weight at the beginning of the show but later on they lose less and less? adaptive thermogenesis, their bodies adapt to the fewer calories and the exercise they do and they burn less.0 -
Okay, don't go badgering me too, but I have also been taking phen. HOWEVER, I am also EATING and WORKING OUT at least 5 times a week. I have not lost as much weight as OP but that's probably because I'm not starving myself. I think if used correctly (as an appetite suppressant like it is perscribed), it can be a great TOOL, but it is definitely NOT a "quick fix". It has helped me keep from over eating and feeling the urge to snack all the time, and my weight has fluctuated while taking it. Sorry to say this but OP, you've got this all wrong. Taking phen is NOT the problem, but the lack of eating and other issues, such as your approach to weight loss, most definitely IS. Please talk to your doc.
I agree with you there, Phentermine as an appetite suppressant, when used as prescribed with a healthy diet of exercise and good eating habits can be a useful tool towards losing and maintaining a healthy weight. The major problem with the negative social stigmatization of this drug is that because of its similar effects of amphetamine (the reason why it is a class IV controlled substance which requires a doctors script) and its prior use in the recalled product fen-phen that people perceive this drug as simply a quick fix weight loss medication dangerous for anyone who uses it. Phentermine is not for everyone but for those who are actively dosing on this medication and harming their bodies they are doing not only harm to their bodies but harm to the community in general for perpetuating that this drug is ONLY harmful for people looking to lose and maintain weight while keeping a healthy plan of diet and physical activity. I feel that each individual is different and what works for them wont exactly work for the person next to them.
@Aaron_K123 I agree with you on that. No doctor that is being serious about helping their patients would have prescribed her the phentermine if he knew this would have happened
@Kimberlywilliams36 please see a doctor for your own safety and health. a registered dietitian and nutritionist can also help you come up with an effective and still healthy weight loss plan for you. I feel like perhaps the doctor who prescribed the phentermine is either a doctor that hands those scripts out like candy to their patients like a lot of weight loss clinics without batting an eye or your doctor didnt quite understand the lengths to which you would go through to try and lose weight. please take care of yourself0 -
Phentermine is an appetite suppressant to help reduce weight in obese patients when used short-term and combined with exercise, diet, and behavioral modification. It is typically prescribed for individuals who are at increased medical risk due to their weight, it is a LAST resort. There is a reason it is prescribed for some patients, and when used correctly it is a useful tool. That is all it is though, a TOOL. Phentermine should only be used by patients who are at increased medical risk because of their obesity. However, it should not be used for "cosmetic" weight loss. It does have its place.
Phentermine works on the hypothalamus portion of the brain to stimulate the adrenal glands to release nor-epinephrine, a neurotransmitter or chemical messenger that signals a fight-or-flight response, reducing hunger. Phentermine works outside the brain, as well, to release epinephrine or adrenaline, causing fat cells to break down stored fat, but the principal basis of efficacy is hunger-reduction. At clinically relevant doses, phentermine also releases serotonin and dopamine, but to a much lesser extent than that of nor-epinephrine.
You need to be closely monitored. You should be eating, at the very least, 1200 calories per day. The issue of using laxatives is a tricky one. Unless there is a serious medical reason (impaction for example) you should not be using laxatives, they CAN cause dependency. There are water soluble laxatives that are OTC that do not cause dependency, but you do not need those and I will not name them for you because you really do need to discuss this issue with a doctor.
You HAVE to eat. Even if you have to force yourself, graze throughout the day if you must, but eat a healthy diet. I implore you to go see your doctor. Honestly, I do not know of any GOOD doctors that would not monitor their patient whilst on phentermine. You should be having a monthly blood panel done, you should be keeping a food diary to take back to your doctor, on a monthly basis. If your doctor is just writing a script every month and sending you on your way, without evaluation of the previous month, you probably need to find another doctor.
I hope you take the advice given you, I hope you go to see a doctor. I hope the phentermine can be used, for you, as a complimentary tool along with diet, exercise, and behavior modification. It is good to have this tool, but you can't build a house with just a hammer, you need to use other tools.
I am sorry if people have not been nice about explaining this to you, I do understand that not everyone can do this, and some people do need a little help. We do not tell people with other health issues to "put down the medication" because we do not know why the medication for that particular patient is being used. That is between you and your doctor. I think people are genuinely concerned for your well being. I know I am!
What you are doing is not safe and can have a long lasting impact on your body. Not necessarily the phentermine, but the misuse of it ( meaning; not following through with a proper diet, exercise, and behavior modification) It should be used as a short term drug to help patients to start losing weight while the patient is undergoing permanent long term changes in their attitude towards food and exercise. The body starts to build up a resistance to the effects of Phentermine after a few weeks of treatment, by which time the patient should be well on their way to a new lifestyle and ready to stop taking it while continuing to maintain a healthy weight on their own. Taking Phentermine is not a substitute for proper diet. For maximum effect, it must be used in conjunction with a diet and exercise program. So you see, those weeks should be a time of relearning how to eat properly, how to exercise properly and learn how to use behavior modification to your advantage, for a long term solution.
I hope you have the information you need to make a more informed path to weight loss. Above all, I do hope you go see your doctor. I think at this point it is very crucial.0 -
its not only lowering. its about how your body responds to the environment you place it in. you eat more one day, your BMR will increase because your body will want to keep your weight within a certain range. obviously you can surplus this if you really eat a loooot more than what you usually eat
you also cannot say it lowers it down by at most 15%, the percentage is really so VARIABLE between individuals. which is why its usually left unmeasured.
however, for one thing you are right, i skimmed through her post (probably should have paid more attention to it) but nevertheless i stand behind what i said. if she doesn't eat its counterproductive, her body will hold on to whatever it can and she won't lose weight. Have you watched the biggest loser? Why do you think they lose so much weight at the beginning of the show but later on they lose less and less? adaptive thermogenesis, their bodies adapt to the fewer calories and the exercise they do and they burn less.
They have studied the range of effect of adaptive thermogenesis all the way to long term starvation. There are published scientific studies on this. Yes, I can say the most they see is 15% downturn in BMR due to adaptive thermogenesis under starvation conditions because that is what they observed.
Adaptive thermogensis exists but it is a relatively small effect and it is not going to turn beef broth into a sustainable diet at which you maintain your weight. Even if your body was capable of dialing down you rmetabolism a large amount of your BMR is just maintaining your body temperature and that is something that you cannot alter without being dead. Your metabolism might slow down to the point where your heart rate slows and you feel tired and sleep a lot more but your body is still going to be at 98.6 degrees or pretty close to it. You can actually calculate the energy cost of maintaining a 60 kilogram sack of water (ie you) at 98.6 degrees in a 70 degree room (37 degrees C in a 25 degree C room) and its quite a large number. Keep in mind that the definition of a Calorie (kilocalorie) is the amount of energy required to raise 1 kg of water by 1 degree celsius; If you were to die your body wouldn't take that long to reach room temperature so your body is constantly pushing your 60kg of water uphill against a 12 degrees celsius gradient. Adaptive thermogenesis does not touch that.
Also, if you notice, the OP lost a ridiculous amount of weight in a very short amount of time...which is what you would expect to happen if you starve yourself. So....no, adaptive thermogenesis does not make you maintain your weight under starvation conditions full stop.
One thing we all agree on for sure though is that starving yourself is bad and counterproductive and you are doing your body SUBSTANTIAL harm way above and beyond the benefit of reducing your fat.0 -
@OP --
I'm assuming your doctor is the one who prescribed phentermine to you, in which case you should NOT see your doctor. You should go and see ANOTHER doctor and get help immediately. What you describe is extremely dangerous. Eating very little and losing weight so rapidly places huge stress on your heart and other organs. Sudden death is just one of many potential consequences. Other consequence are constipation (which I note you already have), extreme fatigue, hallucinations, memory loss, confusion, anger and irritability, hair loss, sallow skin, freezing extremities, amenorrhoea, low blood pressure, headaches, depression, dizziness, irregular and low heart beat, muscular and organ autophagy (where your body eats itself)...etc, etc. I think you get the point.0 -
So, you're saying that even though I am getting professional help with how to address the way I view food and my eating habits, I'm STILL going to fail??
No, people are saying that phentermine masks the problem you are trying to solve. So all this work you are doing right now won't be applicable or useful when you stop taking phentermine. That's because you won't have learned the skills to survive without phentermine. Since phen can only be taken short-term you need a long-term strategy. That's what people are saying.
Two people in particular have summarised it very well. I have bolded the important bits:I guess the point is, you have to do the work. You have to change your eating habits and learn how to control your eating. The medication helps now with cravings. Once you come off them, you still have to do that work that the meds are doing now, so it is only delaying what needs to be done by you. It is good that you are getting help for emotional eating and stuff, and I wish you success. It is just that in the experience of most of the people commenting here that the meds do not guarantee success, in fact often it is the opposite because people are not able or willing to do the work required once they are off the meds.When you learn a behavior or a routine you have to learn it in the environment in which you are planning to operate in long term. If you want to be able to bench press free weight barbells you practice by bench pressing free weight barbells. If you instead use a machine that guides the bar you will *Seem* to make incredible gains but as soon as you actually try to switch to the environment you wanted (ie a free-weight barbell) you won't be able to lift it because all the synergistic muscles involved in balance would not have been developed.
Similarly when you try to behaviorally condition yourself to have better habits you have to do it in the environment you are going to naturally be in. If you are not planning on taking appetite suppressants for the rest of your life that means learning those behaviors while not on appetite suppressants. If you try to learn those behaviors while being ON an appetite suppressant it would be akin to doing bench with a machine. It seems to work great but as soon as you come off the suppressant you are going to realize that your trained behaviors were based completely on how you felt while being on that appetite suppressant and they will simply no longer apply when you come off of it.
People gravitate towards using machines to do bench press because its easier and you can make gains faster and feel like you are learning good habits and increasing your strength, but as soon as you switch to a free weight press all those gains vanish. Same with an appetite suppresent. Those "good habits" you are building most likely only work in combination with the drug.
When you train to lift with a machine your body is learning how to lift weights using that machine. When you train yourself to eat properly on an appetite suppressant your body is learning how to eat properly while on appetite suppressants. If you want to learn how to eat properly without use of drugs then you have to learn without use of drugs as hard as that might be.
If you haven't read the sexypants link then you should do so now. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants0 -
Sounds like your metabolism is f****d . You need to eat more than once a day . I eat 8 times a day and the fats melting off me . If you find it hard to eat then just eat small bits throughout the day0
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Sounds like your metabolism is f****d . You need to eat more than once a day . I eat 8 times a day and the fats melting off me . If you find it hard to eat then just eat small bits throughout the day
No. The OP's problem is they are starving themselves. Their problem is not that they aren't losing weight. They are losing over a pound a day from extreme starvation. Read carefully.0 -
Sounds like your metabolism is f****d . You need to eat more than once a day . I eat 8 times a day and the fats melting off me . If you find it hard to eat then just eat small bits throughout the day
No. The OP's problem is they are starving themselves. Their problem is not that they aren't losing weight. They are losing over a pound a day from extreme starvation. Read carefully.
yes their metabolism is screwed BECAUSE they are starving themselves . It's not a safe way of losing weight . Eat small meals ,eat clean . Starving yourself is dangerous0 -
Sounds like your metabolism is f****d . You need to eat more than once a day . I eat 8 times a day and the fats melting off me . If you find it hard to eat then just eat small bits throughout the day
No. The OP's problem is they are starving themselves. Their problem is not that they aren't losing weight. They are losing over a pound a day from extreme starvation. Read carefully.
yes their metabolism is screwed BECAUSE they are starving themselves . It's not a safe way of losing weight . Eat small meals ,eat clean . Starving yourself is dangerous
I guess I meant their metabolic damage should be the least of their concerns right now.
ETA: There's no need to eat "clean" or eat small meals if you want to lose fat. I have done neither of those things yet never had trouble meeting my goals. A sustainable and moderate calorie deficit is the way to go.0 -
Sounds like your metabolism is f****d . You need to eat more than once a day . I eat 8 times a day and the fats melting off me . If you find it hard to eat then just eat small bits throughout the day
No. The OP's problem is they are starving themselves. Their problem is not that they aren't losing weight. They are losing over a pound a day from extreme starvation. Read carefully.
yes their metabolism is screwed BECAUSE they are starving themselves . It's not a safe way of losing weight . Eat small meals ,eat clean . Starving yourself is dangerous
I guess I meant their metabolic damage should be the least of their concerns right now.
ETA: There's no need to eat "clean" or eat small meals if you want to lose fat. I have done neither of those things yet never had trouble meeting my goals. A sustainable and moderate calorie deficit is the way to go.
Why do you keep trying to negate everything I'm saying? No you don't need to eat clean and eat small meals,as long as you are in a calorific deficit you'll lose weight but obviously I'm not going to say eat junk food in big meals smh. To me it's not about just losing weight but doing it healthily and feeding your body the things it needs0 -
You need to get to a doctor. Phen can cause your blood pressure to rise along with other side effects, constipation being one. I doubt it's good to go two weeks without a bowel movement. Please put your health ahead of your weight loss and go to the doctor.0
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This is what you can eat and still lose weight...
Breakfast
My Thomas - Plain Mini Bagel, 1 bagel
Kroger - Original Pork Sausage Patties Fully Cooked, 1 piece
Kroger - Deluxe American Cheese, 0.5 slice (19g)
Coffee Mate - Sugar Free Hazel Nut Creamer, 1 tbsp.
Mid morning snack
Protein shake #2, 1 serving
Lunch
Kroger - Jumbo 16-25 Cooked Shrimp, 3 oz 85g/about 4 shrimp
Louisiana - Cocktail Sauce, 1 tbsp
Sargento - Ultra Thin Swiss Cheese, 1 Slice, 1 slice
Aunt Millie's C-70 S-135 - Rye Seeded Bread, 1 slice
Sabra Hummus - Roasted Red Pepper Hummus, 1.5 tbsp
Kroger - Deli Thin Sliced Smoked Ham 95% Fat Free, 1.5 oz
Mid afternoon snack
Egg - Hard Boiled - Large, 1 Egg
Dinner
World Catch - Ocean Perch Fillet, 113 g (4oz)
Kroger Fresh Selections - Romaine Hearts, 9 leaves (85g)
Bell Pepper Raw - Red, 0.25 med pepper (approx 2-3/4" long, 2-1/2" dia)
Generic - Roma Tomato, 0.5 Medium
Krogers - Mild Cheddar Cheese (Shredded), 0.0625 CUP (28g)
Kraft Salad Dressing - Creamy Italian, 1 tbsp
Bacardi - Rum & Diet Pepsi, 1 oz. rum
Kroger - Italian Bread Crumbs, 0.0625 cup
Evening snack
Wilton - White Chocolate Candy Melts, 5.28 pieces
Smartfood Delight White Cheddar Popcorn - Popcorn (Air Popped), 2 cup
Blue Diamond - Original Unsweet Almond Milk, 2.64 oz.
Kashi Go Lean Crisp Cinnamon Crumble Cereal - Kashi Go Lean Crisp Cinnamon Crumble Cereal, 38.25 g (3/4 cup)
Totals
1,541 Cal
111 Carb
65Fat
114Protein
18 Fiber
This was my day yesterday. I think I would die if someone said get rid of this for a cup of broth.0 -
not pooping for 2 weeks - ugh!!! i cant imagine her poor stomach and the accompanying stomach ache (horrible!!) when she is stopped up. constipation can be painful!!!0
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Wow didn't think I was gone to come on here getting torn to shreds. I posted it several times because I wasn't sure how to delete them. It was my first time on here posting something. I do realize I have to eat. I was just asking for advice. I didn't post several topics because I didn't like what you had to say. Say what you want. It's your opinion!
You are in very dangerous territory. Either see your doctor and get some professional help or you will be seeing an undertaker. I'm sorry to be blunt but you are seriously harming yourself. As far as the weight gain, it was likely from the salt in the broth that caused a bit of water retention.
A friend of ours was always on a diet, seriously abusing laxatives. She ended up having a large portion of her colon removed and now wears an ostomy bag. The nurses caught her in the hospital just after surgery taking laxatives! While she is still alive, her quality of life is zilch. She looks like a walking corpse. I'm telling you this because it could happen to you and trust me losing weight this way is not worth the price she has paid. Please get some help.0
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