Runner with a serious sugar addiction
Replies
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Sorry for the hijack, OP.You feel disgusted with yourself but powerless to stop. Every time you promise yourself you will never do it again.
I guess what I'm hung up on is: why do I feel disgusted with myself if I can't help myself? Binge eating is a big part of why I've gained weight. When I first joined this site, I was literally surprised at exactly how many calories my favorite foods had. Most of my favorite sandwiches are around 1200 calories. My favorite pizza is 500 per slice (and I usually eat 4). Through logging, I lost a lot of weight, but, with some added stress in my life, I returned to poor choices and gained it all back. In the moment, though, it seems like a decision that I'm making. A big part of me doesn't want to binge, because I know that it's preventing my weight loss, but I still feel like I have to acknowledge that I'm the one doing it. It's not something that's happening to me, but a choice that I'm making. I tell myself I won't do it again, but I do. Usually, I rationalize it by saying, "this is the last time" or "I'll start back for real next month" or things like that. I know that I should probably be talking to a counselor instead of random internet folks, but I think it might help me to hear people telling me that I just need to grow up and start making better choices.0 -
OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).
I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.
Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.
Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs...
Cardiac arrest is more likely to occur with stimulants than synthetic opiates. Choking on your own vomit is actually pretty common with opiate abuse.0 -
OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).
I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.
Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.
Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs...
Cardiac arrest is more likely to occur with stimulants than synthetic opiates. Choking on your own vomit is actually pretty common with opiate abuse.
But its when you're heart stops beating because of that choking and lack of oxygen to the heart that causes death, not the choking itself. I was just being snarky as I am now. It's always cardiac arrest unless you get your head chopped off, then it's decapitation (other forms of spinal cord severing included). It's what ultimately causes the cessation of activity in the brain.
Again, just splitting hairs for the sake if silliness.0 -
OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).
I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.
Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.
Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs...
Cardiac arrest is more likely to occur with stimulants than synthetic opiates. Choking on your own vomit is actually pretty common with opiate abuse.
Cardiac arrest is even more likely to occur when you get hit by lightning. So what?
Someone, dunno if it was you, said "heroin withdrawal can't kill you."0 -
OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).
I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.
Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.
Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs...
Cardiac arrest is more likely to occur with stimulants than synthetic opiates. Choking on your own vomit is actually pretty common with opiate abuse.
But its when you're heart stops beating because of that choking and lack of oxygen to the heart that causes death, not the choking itself. I was just being snarky as I am now. It's always cardiac arrest unless you get your head chopped off, then it's decapitation (other forms of spinal cord severing included). It's what ultimately causes the cessation of activity in the brain.
Again, just splitting hairs for the sake if silliness.
it's actually always lack of blood to the brain resulting in the brain cells not getting enough glucose or oxygen to carry out respiration, then the lack of energy which should have come from respiration causes a cessation of the cells' normal functions which results in the cells dying.
cardiac arrest is the usual cause of blood not getting to the brain... although severing of the carotid artery will have the same effect (which is what kills you with decapitation, not so much the severing of the spinal cord... people can survive severing of the spinal cord in the neck provided that a) the carotid artery is still delivering blood to the brain and b) the severing of the spinal cord isn't so high up that it results in the messages to the heart/breathing system to not get through, and even if b) happens, it's the resulting loss of blood flow to the brain that kills you
sorry I'm just posting in the same spirit of pedantry as the above posts :drinker:0 -
Sorry for the hijack, OP.You feel disgusted with yourself but powerless to stop. Every time you promise yourself you will never do it again.
I guess what I'm hung up on is: why do I feel disgusted with myself if I can't help myself? Binge eating is a big part of why I've gained weight. When I first joined this site, I was literally surprised at exactly how many calories my favorite foods had. Most of my favorite sandwiches are around 1200 calories. My favorite pizza is 500 per slice (and I usually eat 4). Through logging, I lost a lot of weight, but, with some added stress in my life, I returned to poor choices and gained it all back. In the moment, though, it seems like a decision that I'm making. A big part of me doesn't want to binge, because I know that it's preventing my weight loss, but I still feel like I have to acknowledge that I'm the one doing it. It's not something that's happening to me, but a choice that I'm making. I tell myself I won't do it again, but I do. Usually, I rationalize it by saying, "this is the last time" or "I'll start back for real next month" or things like that. I know that I should probably be talking to a counselor instead of random internet folks, but I think it might help me to hear people telling me that I just need to grow up and start making better choices.
IME, the disgust comes from knowing that it's not "normal" and that it's not the right thing to do but not stopping yourself. I don't think anyone who really struggles with binge eating really says "hey, I want to binge today". For those of us who struggle with binge eating, it's a behavior that we have learned to help us adapt to something in our lives. I binge eat for emotional reason - anxiety. I struggle with anxiety and I learned that eating and eating makes me stop thinking those thoughts just for a little while.
I've found that cognitive behavioral therapy is helpful somewhat as it has made me more conscious of the things I'm doing - things I used to think I just did without thinking I'm realizing actually don't just 'happen". I usually have conscious thoughts about what I'm doing, I just have to work to recognize them. I've tried to move past the disgust and self-hatred and also the "tomorrow, next week, next month" thinking. I'm just recently getting better at this and I think this is because I finally got to the point where I accepted that it just may be something more than I can handle on my own. I accepted that if I needed therapy and/or drugs, then so be it because I couldn't keep on like this. Amazingly, just accepting this has made my struggle easier and so far I am managing without seeing a therapist for my eating problems. If I find that what I'm doing isn't working, I will be seeing help because I can't keep eating like this and gaining weight. I'm blessed so far that I haven't had any health problems, but I know that won't last forever.0 -
OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).
I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.
Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.
Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs...
Cardiac arrest is more likely to occur with stimulants than synthetic opiates. Choking on your own vomit is actually pretty common with opiate abuse.
Cardiac arrest is even more likely to occur when you get hit by lightning. So what?
Someone, dunno if it was you, said "heroin withdrawal can't kill you."/
Me - and I stand by that - it's not the physiological effect of not having heroin in your body which causes you to die - which is what was implied. By your standards, you could say sugar withdrawal can kill you, you might get hit by a bus because you were thinking about eating a chocolate bar not concentrating on where you were going.
Lots of things have discontinuation symptoms - the existence, severity or lack therof does not determine an addiction. No-one thinks cigarettes aren't addicitive, but you don't get withdrawals as such. And many people drink alcohol every day yet aren't addicted, but alcohol withdrawal can kill you in its own right. And the medical world is very quick to tell you that discontinuation symptoms do not equate to addiction.
OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.0 -
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).0 -
Sorry for the hijack, OP.You feel disgusted with yourself but powerless to stop. Every time you promise yourself you will never do it again.
I guess what I'm hung up on is: why do I feel disgusted with myself if I can't help myself? Binge eating is a big part of why I've gained weight. When I first joined this site, I was literally surprised at exactly how many calories my favorite foods had. Most of my favorite sandwiches are around 1200 calories. My favorite pizza is 500 per slice (and I usually eat 4). Through logging, I lost a lot of weight, but, with some added stress in my life, I returned to poor choices and gained it all back. In the moment, though, it seems like a decision that I'm making. A big part of me doesn't want to binge, because I know that it's preventing my weight loss, but I still feel like I have to acknowledge that I'm the one doing it. It's not something that's happening to me, but a choice that I'm making. I tell myself I won't do it again, but I do. Usually, I rationalize it by saying, "this is the last time" or "I'll start back for real next month" or things like that. I know that I should probably be talking to a counselor instead of random internet folks, but I think it might help me to hear people telling me that I just need to grow up and start making better choices.
IME, the disgust comes from knowing that it's not "normal" and that it's not the right thing to do but not stopping yourself. I don't think anyone who really struggles with binge eating really says "hey, I want to binge today". For those of us who struggle with binge eating, it's a behavior that we have learned to help us adapt to something in our lives. I binge eat for emotional reason - anxiety. I struggle with anxiety and I learned that eating and eating makes me stop thinking those thoughts just for a little while.
I've found that cognitive behavioral therapy is helpful somewhat as it has made me more conscious of the things I'm doing - things I used to think I just did without thinking I'm realizing actually don't just 'happen". I usually have conscious thoughts about what I'm doing, I just have to work to recognize them. I've tried to move past the disgust and self-hatred and also the "tomorrow, next week, next month" thinking. I'm just recently getting better at this and I think this is because I finally got to the point where I accepted that it just may be something more than I can handle on my own. I accepted that if I needed therapy and/or drugs, then so be it because I couldn't keep on like this. Amazingly, just accepting this has made my struggle easier and so far I am managing without seeing a therapist for my eating problems. If I find that what I'm doing isn't working, I will be seeing help because I can't keep eating like this and gaining weight. I'm blessed so far that I haven't had any health problems, but I know that won't last forever.
I think part of the disgust is actually because you feel like you can't help yourself.
We want to believe we are better than that. Not feeling in control of something you are doing is horrible.0 -
OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).
I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.
Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.
Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs...
Cardiac arrest is more likely to occur with stimulants than synthetic opiates. Choking on your own vomit is actually pretty common with opiate abuse.
But its when you're heart stops beating because of that choking and lack of oxygen to the heart that causes death, not the choking itself. I was just being snarky as I am now. It's always cardiac arrest unless you get your head chopped off, then it's decapitation (other forms of spinal cord severing included). It's what ultimately causes the cessation of activity in the brain.
Again, just splitting hairs for the sake if silliness.
You have a razor blade? Mine is blunt. :smokin:0 -
Sorry for the hijack, OP.You feel disgusted with yourself but powerless to stop. Every time you promise yourself you will never do it again.
I guess what I'm hung up on is: why do I feel disgusted with myself if I can't help myself? Binge eating is a big part of why I've gained weight. When I first joined this site, I was literally surprised at exactly how many calories my favorite foods had. Most of my favorite sandwiches are around 1200 calories. My favorite pizza is 500 per slice (and I usually eat 4). Through logging, I lost a lot of weight, but, with some added stress in my life, I returned to poor choices and gained it all back. In the moment, though, it seems like a decision that I'm making. A big part of me doesn't want to binge, because I know that it's preventing my weight loss, but I still feel like I have to acknowledge that I'm the one doing it. It's not something that's happening to me, but a choice that I'm making. I tell myself I won't do it again, but I do. Usually, I rationalize it by saying, "this is the last time" or "I'll start back for real next month" or things like that. I know that I should probably be talking to a counselor instead of random internet folks, but I think it might help me to hear people telling me that I just need to grow up and start making better choices.
IME, the disgust comes from knowing that it's not "normal" and that it's not the right thing to do but not stopping yourself. I don't think anyone who really struggles with binge eating really says "hey, I want to binge today". For those of us who struggle with binge eating, it's a behavior that we have learned to help us adapt to something in our lives. I binge eat for emotional reason - anxiety. I struggle with anxiety and I learned that eating and eating makes me stop thinking those thoughts just for a little while.
I've found that cognitive behavioral therapy is helpful somewhat as it has made me more conscious of the things I'm doing - things I used to think I just did without thinking I'm realizing actually don't just 'happen". I usually have conscious thoughts about what I'm doing, I just have to work to recognize them. I've tried to move past the disgust and self-hatred and also the "tomorrow, next week, next month" thinking. I'm just recently getting better at this and I think this is because I finally got to the point where I accepted that it just may be something more than I can handle on my own. I accepted that if I needed therapy and/or drugs, then so be it because I couldn't keep on like this. Amazingly, just accepting this has made my struggle easier and so far I am managing without seeing a therapist for my eating problems. If I find that what I'm doing isn't working, I will be seeing help because I can't keep eating like this and gaining weight. I'm blessed so far that I haven't had any health problems, but I know that won't last forever.
I think part of the disgust is actually because you feel like you can't help yourself.
We want to believe we are better than that. Not feeling in control of something you are doing is horrible.
+10 for this exchange and understanding what some of us deal with
+10000 for CBT and anti anxiety meds which have drastically helped with my binge eating0 -
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).
Apologies, I didn't actually realise that's what you were trying to do there.
However, I was just correcting what I saw to be a factual inaccuracy. It would be entirely possible to say the same thing to someone going through heroin withdrawals.0 -
This will more than likely start a HUGE thread of discussions/debate/fighting because some people believe moderation is the key and some believe that refraining is the key.
All I can tell you is I completely understand! I will say that I am addicted to sugar but then there will be people say there is no such thing. So I'll explain it this way: i have go to foods that I binge on such as cakes, cookies and desserts. I don't binge on fruit which of course has sugar. So is this a sugar addiction...no...it's a behavior addiction. But I UNDERSTAND what you mean when you say sugar addiction.
So far what has worked for me, is that I am working on where I am at mentally when I crave. A lot of times I'm stressed out. So I'm working on stress and that's helped a lot. I am also refraining from these things for a while so I can get a control and change these behaviors and develop new healthier behaviors.
One of the most important things that I am doing that is helping me is I am eating more often and I am eating less foods that I'll call starches...like I only have four servings (2/3 cup a serving) a day. And I am eating tons more veggies and fruit. I have yet to suffer from the mid afternoon crash that I ALWAYS suffered from. I have even had so much more energy, I no longer drink caffeine. I wasn't planning on this, but I didn't need it so I let it go. On Easter, I had dinner with family, I did have a diet coke, and I did even have a piece of cake. But I was able to have the freedom of not obsessing over it. I ate my portion and then I was done. And I plan to go a few weeks before I have another sweet. (It actually wasn't as satisfying as I wanted).
These are things that have worked for me. I've talked to a therapist and my doctor about some of my issues to have a better understanding. I'm also a social work grad student and have learned so much about addiction and such. Also, there are some folks here on MFP that completely understand what you are dealing with and can help! Feel free to add me! Good luck on your journey!
If you look at neuroscience research, it is totally possible to be addicted to sugar, or really anything pleasurable.
I don't think either is healthy- giving sugar up completely (it's not realistic living in our day/age), or attempting to go with moderation. Most addictions work by giving something up completely, but the difference between most addictions and any addiction concerning food is the mere fact that as human beings we cannot avoid food. Three (or six/more depending on how you eat) times a day, we must find a way to face our substance of choice.
That being said, what I found helpful was at first giving up refined sugars (i found natural sugars like those found in fruit didn't trigger sugar cravings), until I stopped feeling cravings for them. This took a while though, and I slipped up many times. When you're addicted to something, there is no such thing as moderation.
After I felt as though my cravings were under control (this is where I am now), I started VERY slowly re-introducing sweets into my life, but only during times I didn't find myself in distress, as the means of avoiding that "food = comfort/soothing" connection in my brain. Once I felt as though I was much more in control of my impulses I gradually started having them in moderation, which is what I've found to be the most helpful.
I struggle with Binge Eating Disorder, and basically 99% of my binges were on sugar. So I can relate to this experience. OA didn't work for me, since they advise a complete abstaining from refined sugar/flours (I know this is not the case for all chapters, but the one i attended adopted this perspective AND I have a few qualms with the program as a whole), and eating sugars in moderation didn't work, since I was in the midst of a rather compulsive addiction. What worked for me was admitting that I had an addiction, admitting that I couldn't take a black/white philosophy (since diets that are incredibly strict in that means are not exactly health), and gradually finding ways to develop a healthier relationship with sugar.
Feel free to PM me if you ever need to rant or anything of the sort. I know that people have differing views on this topic, but this is what makes the most sense to me, and what has worked best for me (I've been struggling with BED since being a small child, and it really worsened as I grew older/had more freedom as a whole) throughout the years. YOU pursue what YOU find to be helpful though! Best of luck.
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Isn't that kinda the very definition of 'addiction' - lacking the self control to not do something?
No. Its not that simple.
Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences. Hallmarks of addiction include impaired control over substances or behavior, preoccupation with substance or behavior, continued use despite consequences, and denial. Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).
It's a multi-faceted condition which generally requires 12 entire (difficult) steps to reach recovery. Folks with addictions are deeply hurting people and those who choose to engage in recovery are actually very brave. Thus it's not productive to call people with addictions or masking addictive behavior as "lazy", "having no self-control", "babies", "not grown ups" and such, as some people on here are wont to do.
If you are going to confuse addictions with compulsive behavior, then you will have to expect "no self-control" to be a response. For me, learning *why* I felt a compulsion for bad habits is what *gave* me the self-control and willpower to stop it. :flowerforyou:
I refused to do the 12 steps stuff because I am NOT powerless to change my life. I own me; I control me. If I can't, then I get help to figure out why. A counselor or therapist, or even an honest friend, is key for someone who chooses to take control of their own life.0 -
I don't think anyone who really struggles with binge eating really says "hey, I want to binge today".
I tell myself all night at work that I'm not going to stop and get food when I get off, but I almost always do. I feel weak, but I don't feel like a victim. I know it's something that I'm choosing to do and that I don't have to do it, but I keep doing it anyway.things I used to think I just did without thinking I'm realizing actually don't just 'happen". I usually have conscious thoughts about what I'm doing, I just have to work to recognize them.
Thanks for sharing! This really encourages me. I guess I'm just at that point where I'm recognizing that my volition is involved, and "knowing is half the battle."
I guess I'm just trying to decide if it's something I can beat on my own. Since I've stopped before, and lost weight on my own, I feel like I can do it again. Of course, my life is a lot more stressful now than it was then.0 -
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).
Apologies, I didn't actually realise that's what you were trying to do there.
However, I was just correcting what I saw to be a factual inaccuracy. It would be entirely possible to say the same thing to someone going through heroin withdrawals.
*insert eye roll gif here*0 -
I'm also thinking about joining a 24-hour gym so that I can work out when I get off work (to use a positive habit to replace a negative one), but I'm already only getting 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night and just found out yesterday that I'm going to have to start getting up earlier in the morning.even an honest friend, is key for someone who chooses to take control of their own life.
I think this would help me a lot, too. My coworkers are mostly less fit than me (and higher bf%) and don't really want to hear about my struggles with food (even after seeing me eat 1200 calories in about 10 minutes).0 -
I don't think anyone who really struggles with binge eating really says "hey, I want to binge today".
I tell myself all night at work that I'm not going to stop and get food when I get off, but I almost always do. I feel weak, but I don't feel like a victim. I know it's something that I'm choosing to do and that I don't have to do it, but I keep doing it anyway.things I used to think I just did without thinking I'm realizing actually don't just 'happen". I usually have conscious thoughts about what I'm doing, I just have to work to recognize them.
Thanks for sharing! This really encourages me. I guess I'm just at that point where I'm recognizing that my volition is involved, and "knowing is half the battle."
I guess I'm just trying to decide if it's something I can beat on my own. Since I've stopped before, and lost weight on my own, I feel like I can do it again. Of course, my life is a lot more stressful now than it was then.
This is interesting to me as I definitely felt that I was not choosing to do it, that I had no control over it. To the point that at times the only way out felt like suicide. It utterly dominated my life at the time to the exclusion of all else. And I was physically very very ill. But I couldn't resist the urge in the moment.
A quote that resonated with me back then and still does is along the lines of, you can't fight the urge to binge, you have to lose the urge to binge. That's definitely close to how I felt (and still do). That said I would add to that that it might be possible to learn to ignore the urge to binge, which is different to fighting it. I am reading Brain Over Binge and finding it an interesting concept. But she still works on the premise that recovery is losing the urge to binge.0 -
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).
Apologies, I didn't actually realise that's what you were trying to do there.
However, I was just correcting what I saw to be a factual inaccuracy. It would be entirely possible to say the same thing to someone going through heroin withdrawals.
*insert eye roll gif here*
Eh? I wasn't even talking to you. How is that constructive, helpful or relevant in any way?0 -
Isn't that kinda the very definition of 'addiction' - lacking the self control to not do something?
No. Its not that simple.
Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences. Hallmarks of addiction include impaired control over substances or behavior, preoccupation with substance or behavior, continued use despite consequences, and denial. Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).
It's a multi-faceted condition which generally requires 12 entire (difficult) steps to reach recovery. Folks with addictions are deeply hurting people and those who choose to engage in recovery are actually very brave. Thus it's not productive to call people with addictions or masking addictive behavior as "lazy", "having no self-control", "babies", "not grown ups" and such, as some people on here are wont to do.
If you are going to confuse addictions with compulsive behavior, then you will have to expect "no self-control" to be a response. For me, learning *why* I felt a compulsion for bad habits is what *gave* me the self-control and willpower to stop it. :flowerforyou:
I refused to do the 12 steps stuff because I am NOT powerless to change my life. I own me; I control me. If I can't, then I get help to figure out why. A counselor or therapist, or even an honest friend, is key for someone who chooses to take control of their own life.
Good for you. No, really. But your experience does not mean you know anything about anyone else's. Nor does it give you the right to judge others. How about getting off that high horse?0 -
A quote that resonated with me back then and still does is along the lines of, you can't fight the urge to binge, you have to lose the urge to binge. That's definitely close to how I felt (and still do). That said I would add to that that it might be possible to learn to ignore the urge to binge, which is different to fighting it. I am reading Brain Over Binge and finding it an interesting concept. But she still works on the premise that recovery is losing the urge to binge.
That's resonating with me! I've never thought about it like that, but it seems so true. When that urge strikes, no matter how aware I am of my thoughts and thought processes, I've never really found a good way to combat the urge. I know my urges come from anxiety and I've learned that working to talk back to my anxiety helps, but sometimes I just can't do it and I get that urge.
Last year, when I had what was probably my longest run without real urges to binge, it was during a time when one of my "worst" fears had happened (a job loss) and I stopped being anxious about that happening. I realized that we were surviving it and miraculously I lost the urge to binge for quite a while. Then, my DH started a new job and I went right back to having the urge to binge almost immediately. It really amazed me that I get the urge to binge when I worry about something bad happening but when something bad actually happens, I lose the urge to binge. Knowing this is great, but in a year I still haven't quite figured out how to "fix" it.0 -
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).
Apologies, I didn't actually realise that's what you were trying to do there.
However, I was just correcting what I saw to be a factual inaccuracy. It would be entirely possible to say the same thing to someone going through heroin withdrawals.
*insert eye roll gif here*
Eh? I wasn't even talking to you. How is that constructive, helpful or relevant in any way?
Comparing desserts with synthetic opiates is a little absurd. There is no such thing as a withdrawal syndrome for sugar. Our brains run on sugar (glucose). Sugar is a natural thing to eat. Synthetic opiates, not so much.
It is not constructive in any way to compare compulsive behavior to drug addiction.0 -
Isn't that kinda the very definition of 'addiction' - lacking the self control to not do something?
No. Its not that simple.
Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences. Hallmarks of addiction include impaired control over substances or behavior, preoccupation with substance or behavior, continued use despite consequences, and denial. Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).
It's a multi-faceted condition which generally requires 12 entire (difficult) steps to reach recovery. Folks with addictions are deeply hurting people and those who choose to engage in recovery are actually very brave. Thus it's not productive to call people with addictions or masking addictive behavior as "lazy", "having no self-control", "babies", "not grown ups" and such, as some people on here are wont to do.
If you are going to confuse addictions with compulsive behavior, then you will have to expect "no self-control" to be a response. For me, learning *why* I felt a compulsion for bad habits is what *gave* me the self-control and willpower to stop it. :flowerforyou:
I refused to do the 12 steps stuff because I am NOT powerless to change my life. I own me; I control me. If I can't, then I get help to figure out why. A counselor or therapist, or even an honest friend, is key for someone who chooses to take control of their own life.
Good for you. No, really. But your experience does not mean you know anything about anyone else's. Nor does it give you the right to judge others. How about getting off that high horse?
Or how about people quit blaming inanimate objects for their own personal failures?0 -
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).
Apologies, I didn't actually realise that's what you were trying to do there.
However, I was just correcting what I saw to be a factual inaccuracy. It would be entirely possible to say the same thing to someone going through heroin withdrawals.
*insert eye roll gif here*
Eh? I wasn't even talking to you. How is that constructive, helpful or relevant in any way?
Comparing desserts with synthetic opiates is a little absurd. There is no such thing as a withdrawal syndrome for sugar. Our brains run on sugar (glucose). Sugar is a natural thing to eat. Synthetic opiates, not so much.
It is not constructive in any way to compare compulsive behavior to drug addiction.
I didn't. I just said you can't die from heroin withdrawals, then clarified my statement. Where on earth did you get that from?
OP, sorry this has gone off topic, I hope you have found some constructive things in this thread, and good luck with your journey 0 -
OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).
I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.
Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.
Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs...
Cardiac arrest is more likely to occur with stimulants than synthetic opiates. Choking on your own vomit is actually pretty common with opiate abuse.
Cardiac arrest is even more likely to occur when you get hit by lightning. So what?
Someone, dunno if it was you, said "heroin withdrawal can't kill you."
I missed that comment. It is possible to die from heroin withdrawal. It's rare, but it's possible.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-addiction/201001/alcohol-benzos-and-opiates-withdrawal-might-kill-you0 -
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).
Apologies, I didn't actually realise that's what you were trying to do there.
However, I was just correcting what I saw to be a factual inaccuracy. It would be entirely possible to say the same thing to someone going through heroin withdrawals.
*insert eye roll gif here*
Eh? I wasn't even talking to you. How is that constructive, helpful or relevant in any way?
Comparing desserts with synthetic opiates is a little absurd. There is no such thing as a withdrawal syndrome for sugar. Our brains run on sugar (glucose). Sugar is a natural thing to eat. Synthetic opiates, not so much.
It is not constructive in any way to compare compulsive behavior to drug addiction.
I didn't. I just said you can't die from heroin withdrawals.
Having said that I firmly disagree with you on this, but you are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.
Disagree all you want. You can die from heroin withdrawal. That's a fact, not an opinion.0 -
So would you mind clarifying for me, please, whether you think a person going through heroin withdrawal (specifically, as I am led, perhaps mistakenly, to believe that its is worse than any other opiate's) does have experience actual physical harm? Because I still maintain that they do and believe that medical supervision is often needed to prevent grave bodily harm or death, and that self-talk alone isn't gonna get someone through it.
OK, so in the spirit of that, how is it that when I said that she wouldn't die from withdrawal from sugary foods like she could during withdrawal from heroin it was ok to argue semantics instead of letting it stand as a constructive statement?OP was looking for constructive help, not semantics.
I think I was trying to say something akin to what you might say to someone having an anxiety attack. The awful feelings are certainly unpleasant to experience in the moment, but it is OK to experience negative feelings and the feelings simply cannot harm you. You can just be present with the unpleasantness of the moment and know that it will pass and you will emerge unscathed.
So, in abstaining from one's habit of eating sugary food, it may feel unpleasant, but it won't actually harm you. I personally have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of abstaining from that habit for more than a matter of hours, but no actual damage would occur if I did. (The feelings of deprivation may eventually lead to bingeing later, but that's a separate issue).
Apologies, I didn't actually realise that's what you were trying to do there.
However, I was just correcting what I saw to be a factual inaccuracy. It would be entirely possible to say the same thing to someone going through heroin withdrawals.
*insert eye roll gif here*0 -
I'm also thinking about joining a 24-hour gym so that I can work out when I get off work (to use a positive habit to replace a negative one), but I'm already only getting 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night and just found out yesterday that I'm going to have to start getting up earlier in the morning.even an honest friend, is key for someone who chooses to take control of their own life.
I think this would help me a lot, too. My coworkers are mostly less fit than me (and higher bf%) and don't really want to hear about my struggles with food (even after seeing me eat 1200 calories in about 10 minutes).
I agree that finding someone to talk to is a good idea, and replacing bad habits with good is obviously a good idea, but I think that if you are already sleep deprived, adding to it is a very bad idea. My experience is that my urges to binge are much stronger and greater in frequency when I'm overly tired. It's entirely possible that your current sleep situation is playing a big role in your binge eating problems.
I really don't have any close friends to talk with that understand binge eating and it's been so hard not having someone who understands my struggles. That's why this time I had made the decision that I would see professional help if need be. So far the need hasn't arisen, but if it does, I already know a good counselor who works with CBT, so that's a plus. I do hold out hope, too, because all of the women on my mom's side have struggled greatly with anxiety (grandmother was even hospitalized for it) and weight, but most of them do see improvements in their 30s and seem to mostly get off the weight loss merry-go-round, so now that I'm in my 30s, I feel like that's another plus for me!0 -
Comparing desserts with synthetic opiates is a little absurd. There is no such thing as a withdrawal syndrome for sugar. Our brains run on sugar (glucose). Sugar is a natural thing to eat. Synthetic opiates, not so much.
It is not constructive in any way to compare compulsive behavior to drug addiction.
I didn't. I just said you can't die from heroin withdrawals.
Having said that I firmly disagree with you on this, but you are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.
Disagree all you want. You can die from heroin withdrawal. That's a fact, not an opinion.
Disagree on your opinion of addiction versus compulsive behaviour, binge eating etc etc etc0 -
Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment because I got told that I knew nothing about metabolism and I give terrible advice on another thread...but I recently moved to a low fructose diet and it has helped my cravings immensely. Sugar is in almost everything processed including savory foods so it's a challenge to get it totally out of your system. You could try totally eliminating fructose from your diet including processed sugar, soda, fruit juice, dried fruit, and even whole fruit (that's where I got slammed
) If you wanted to eliminate everything else and just cut down the whole fruit that might work, too, but if you've got a bad sugar addicition abstaining from all fructose for 8 weeks and then adding in fructose from whole fruits only would be great (keeping in mind that veggies and other foods have fructose but usually lower than effects your homones and metabolism). The IIFYMer's hate me for recommending this book but I'm doing it anyway, "Fat Chance" by Dr. Robert Lustig (I'm ready for the haters). I followed suggestions and a plan on the "I Quit Sugar" website. It has really changed my life. There used to be this never ending hole in my stomach that was always demanding food. I was never satisfied...and I eat much less fructose normally than most people because I do all whole foods! But the extra step of really cutting out the added sugar especially from processed "health foods" and increasing my good fats has made a huge difference. I can stay within calories no problem. I am actually full after a normal amount of food. For the first time since I was a child I feel like I'm not always fighting with my cravings and huge appetite. It's liberating because I have so much extra time because I'm not always thinking about my next meal or snack and feeling like I'm going to pass out when I get hungry.
I am not suggesting limiting any other carbs or sugars...lactose, glucose, etc...just the fructose.0
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