Runner with a serious sugar addiction

likitisplit

I'm a grown up. I know what my body can and should take, and I work for every last speck of sugar.

Back in my late 20s til I was 32 I ate what I pleased without regard for myself and slowed down when I either ran out of money or just felt awful. Not chocolate, but I would start my morning with a Kit Kat, a bag of Skittles (before they ruined Original with green Apple), and a Mountain Dew. For lunch, I would go where ever the coworkers went. For dinner, much of the same. I probably consumed a good 3000ish calories a day with zero physical activity. I was a puffy 180.

"Binge" is one of the most misused words around here, right next to "addiction." Personally, I think it's a lot of denial and accountability-shifting drama. It's easier to blame a pseudo-condition than to admit a shortcoming within yourself.

On face value, OP sounds like a child trapped in an adult's body, kinda like I was. Want, want, want, and be shocked with the consequences. Nowadays, I hit my macros, I eat what some call "junk," and I run 50MPW. Maybe I'm just an anomaly, who knows.

I agree with you. I think a lot of people on here blame lack of self control on "addiction."

That being said, some people have a higher capacity for self control than others, and a lot of what goes into someone's obesity or weight management problems can be emotional or mental. It's simple to say, "just put down the crap and eat within moderation," and you would be right, technically. The execution of that isn't always easy, particularly when people use food to treat underlying emotional issues.

I had no self-control until I learned the amount that I should be eating (a lot of food) and made sure that I hit my numbers with a considered plan. Then I stopped binging and lost 40 pounds.

SillyC2

For me, as I've learned to eat more carefully while losing weight, I have noticed that if I have any sugar, I will crave it and be much hungrier for the rest of the day. So I just don't eat sugary things until the evening, after dinner, unless it is a special occasion or I'm having our weekly pancakes/waffles for breakfast, which are so filling that even if I eat syrup with them, the sugar doesn't seem to get to me.

Discovering this has resulted in me eating a lot less sugar, and that means I usually don't crave it like I used to. I think that forcing yourself to drastically reduce your sugar intake for at least a month might be the only way you can deal with the cravings in the long term. Not having it makes you far, far more sensitive to the taste (and the physiological effects) of sugar, so after not having it for a while, you will probably find your "need" for it greatly reduced.

Something like this takes a heck of a lot of willpower and desire to change.

This brings to mind something I heard about high-fructose corn syrup triggering hunger hormones/responses more than other sugars. I believe I heard this on National Public Radio; I wish I could give a proper citation because I'm sure a lot of people will have a fit at this assertion. . . but there is something about HFCS-sweetened things I find especially disgusting, and craving-inducing (and always have, before I heard the above tidbit of info). So if you do eat sugar, try to at least have it be less refined varieties and not HFCS.

Great post!

This is exactly the case for me! Once I have sugar, I crave crave crave crave it all day long. And for me, the key also is to put it off till the evening if I have it at all.

I didn't end up with weight gain as a result of my sugar problems; when I was younger, I developed metabolic syndrome and endocrine problems, even when I was technically at the low end of normal for weight.

Honestly, I don't think marathon training is going to give you much of a free pass to eat lots of sugar. I only think it helps DURING and shortly (like 20 minutes) after long runs.

likitisplit

All of the people advising a sugar detox, or cutting out junk food, or whatever, for an endurance athlete are out of their gourd and should stop giving such terrible advice on the forums. Good freaking lord. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're giving advice based not on nutrition or performance but whacked-out ideas you've learned from the popular media and stupid diet books.

I'm still unsure where anyone has actually said sugar detox and cutting out junk food. OP says she has problem with chocolate and certain sweet treats mainly. Can't she cut chocolate and still eat pasta if she wants to hit her calorie needs?

ETA: Not saying anyone hasn't used the term, I just don't see it.

it was suggested earlier in the thread and a lot of the advice was telling her ways to deal with "sugar addiction", combat cravings etc............ without any thought to whether she's actually getting enough calories to fuel her activity levels to begin with... it's like people just focussed on the words "sugar addiction" and were completely blind to the rest of the situation

how she gets the calories (pasta or chocolate) isn't the issue... the point is that if she's undereating then she's not suffering from "sugar addiction", the cravings and binge eating chocolate are caused by undereating and she needs to be sure she's eating enough to fuel her activity.... if she is then it's likely that these extreme cravings for stuff like chocolate will either go away completely or become a lot more manageable, and her calories will end up coming from stuff like pasta, rice, etc rather than chocolate (and nothing wrong with some of them coming from chocolate if she wants)

I understand what you are saying but I feel that people, like myself, are just simply sharing their own personal journey and understanding of similar issues. There is no way at all through a forum post to truly assess what the real issues are. But she asked if anyone else had struggled with the same things, and those who have shared their experiences. The truth is, her issue could be one of the various issues that everyone has shared. She could be overeating, she could be under-eating, she could have a psychological issue. None of us know. I didn't share my post with her because I believe it is her issue. I just shared with her because I believe it could be and just wanted to share my thoughts.

but training for marathons + intense sugar cravings.... this doesn't raise a red flag for undereating being a likely cause? That's my issue. This was completely missed.

Even if it's a genuine psychological issue, it's imperative that you rule out hunger/physiological cravings due to undereating as a cause first, before you treat the problem as psychological. So no matter what the actual cause of the cravings turn out to be, undereating should be the first possibility considered. Rule that out first, then discuss psychological causes.

I am interested in your theory about under-eating but I am curious...is it possible that the same effect could occur from eating the wrong kinds of foods (not meeting your macros)? I don't see how someone could be under eating if they are overweight.
I am also training for a my first marathon in September. I am about 35 pounds overweight and I have fallen victim to the whole "I run a lot, therefore I can eat whatever I want and not count the calories", yeah...no...Also, I also crave sugar after a long run (10+ miles). I KNOW I am not under eating. I am fat. BUT, I also know that I do not meet my macro nutrient goals, like...ever. Thoughts?
(not trying to hijack thread, just thought my parallel experience can help OP)

It's possible that you ARE under eating. Even fat people have a basic need for calories each and every day to provide protein and fat for metabolic function and fuel their activity.

Generally, meeting your macronutrient goals means getting at least a minimum amount of protein and fat, and then filling in the rest according to personal taste and athletic needs. If you aren't doing that, I suggest you get it figured out for the sake of your health.

SillyC2

Also, is the OP still around?

If you are, can I make a suggestion about the chocolate? I got my chocolate consumption under control by switching to premium chocolate. I did that, not really because of my chocolate-eating problem, but as a boycott of commodities chocolate for social reasons, and I switched to fair trade.

The fair trade chocolate is THA BOMB. It is so good, and it's really satisfying. I find that I can be satisfied with about an eighth of a bar rather than a king sized.

Oh hey, I'm an ultrarunner. I take a break from logging before and after races so I don't undereat. You can take a look at my log. I don't get all that much food. And I can barely control my sugar issues. It doesn't seem that my sugar cravings are even related to my training volume. It seems that they are more closely related to stress.

QuietBloom

Are you eating enough? Binging on yummy foods can happen if your calorie deficit is too aggressive.

kuolo

Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).

I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.

Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.

Brandolin11

Isn't that kinda the very definition of 'addiction' - lacking the self control to not do something?

No. Its not that simple.

Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences. Hallmarks of addiction include impaired control over substances or behavior, preoccupation with substance or behavior, continued use despite consequences, and denial. Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).

It's a multi-faceted condition which generally requires 12 entire (difficult) steps to reach recovery. Folks with addictions are deeply hurting people and those who choose to engage in recovery are actually very brave. Thus it's not productive to call people with addictions or masking addictive behavior as "lazy", "having no self-control", "babies", "not grown ups" and such, as some people on here are wont to do.

ndj1979

another day another sugar addiction thread...

I love how these threads go ..my personal favorite is "I cut out all added sugar, but continue to eat fruit, honey, and dark chocolate"

Hey, I am a recovering crack head, and I occasionally snort cocaine to get rid of the cravings.....

Don't recovering heroine addicts substitute methadone?

yes, but then they end up hooked on methadone …happened to two people that I know personally….

Ulilouise

Wow! Sorry for disappearing, I wasn't expecting to get quite so many replies so quickly!

A massive thanks to you all, lots of great advice and also some things I really needed to hear today (such as"get a grip" and "grow up", I've been telling myself that for ages but it's different hearing it from a stranger). It's all much appreciated.

I'll reply in more detail in the morning but to answer those who asked, activity-wise I'm training for a half marathon at the moment and won't start my proper marathon training until the summer. I've mostly run 10ks and half marathons and usually have a race booked to give me incentive to get off the sofa.

Regarding the sugar cravings being a result of under eating... I don't think that this is the case, if anything I should probably be eating slightly smaller portions (generally I believe I eat well apart from the sugar issues). To those that suggested a total carb detox, perhaps if I weren't training for races this could be an option but it's not something I feel would be wise at the moment.

Also, I unwisely didn't think too much about using the term "sugar addiction", I'm obviously no expert and perhaps it doesn't technically exist but my cravings are certainly what I'd imagine an addiction to feel like. I've found it much easier to give up alcohol and cigarettes than chocolate!

Fullsterkur_woman

Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).

I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.

Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.

OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.

Strokingdiction

Right. They use methadone and other substitutes because heroin withdrawal can literally kill you. Nobody ever died from sugary-food withdrawal (which is not to say that sugar withdrawal couldn't kill you... in the sense that sugar is produced from digesting food... withdraw food long enough and they'll die!).

I really wish the OP would return and provide the follow-up information. I'm dying to know whether she's trying to run marathons on an empty tank or whether she just needs to rein it in and find a successful coping strategy.

Heroin withdrawal can't kill you. It's just very unpleasant.

OK, technically dehydration from diarrhea and vomiting kills you. Fair enough.

Technically, it's cardiac arrest that kills you. But now we're just splitting hairs.

SonicDeathMonkey80

Wow! Sorry for disappearing, I wasn't expecting to get quite so many replies so quickly!

A massive thanks to you all, lots of great advice and also some things I really needed to hear today (such as"get a grip" and "grow up", I've been telling myself that for ages but it's different hearing it from a stranger). It's all much appreciated.

I'll reply in more detail in the morning but to answer those who asked, activity-wise I'm training for a half marathon at the moment and won't start my proper marathon training until the summer. I've mostly run 10ks and half marathons and usually have a race booked to give me incentive to get off the sofa.

Regarding the sugar cravings being a result of under eating... I don't think that this is the case, if anything I should probably be eating slightly smaller portions (generally I believe I eat well apart from the sugar issues). To those that suggested a total carb detox, perhaps if I weren't training for races this could be an option but it's not something I feel would be wise at the moment.

Also, I unwisely didn't think too much about using the term "sugar addiction", I'm obviously no expert and perhaps it doesn't technically exist but my cravings are certainly what I'd imagine an addiction to feel like. I've found it much easier to give up alcohol and cigarettes than chocolate!

And now you are wise to the effects of heroin addiction and withdrawal as well, thanks to the MFP community!

geebusuk

No. Its not that simple.

To me, your description also sounds a bit 'idealised' and 'simple'.
I would say a lot of people who are addicted to things aren't "hurting" - that's the whole problem.

I have been physically addicted to a substance (Tramadol) without ticking any of those boxes.
Didn't even realise until I stopped taking it and had classic 'cold turkey' symptoms.
I have used it and similar since and been absolutely fine.

While the way I have often eaten DOES tick a lot of those boxes.

Brandolin11

No. Its not that simple.

To me, your description also sounds a bit 'idealised' and 'simple'.

I had simply clipped a piece from a wiki article to give the basic gist of the definition, but if you want the full explanation, here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

I would say a lot of people who are addicted to things aren't "hurting" - that's the whole problem.

That's honestly a new one to me - could you explain that claim, if you don't mind? I apologize for not understanding, I just found the rest of your post a little confusing. I've never met an addict who wasn't at least somewhat distressed by it. But then most of the addicts I've met were actually in OA, were personal friends or family of mine, and I've met about a hundred on here so far, so I'm going off of stories they tell me personally about their distress, past pain that drove them to where they are today, and their desperate desire to escape it. I also have yet to find an addict who has used their drug of choice since becoming clean and been absolutely fine. But I admit I may be misunderstanding what you meant by that.

geebusuk

The first bit was from wikipedia (you'll note I'd already quoted the very first bit of that previously myself). Not the stuff about 12 steps and so on.

Anyway, a lot of people addicted to things I've seen are fairly happy where they are - they may not realise they are addicted, or their continued behaviour brings enough to counter the addiction. And yes, this often includes people taking harder drugs and so on. However, such people are often a lot less prominent because they're just "getting on with it".

I don't think anyone denies that you can be addicted to tobacco, yet I've met plenty of smokers that are happy to keep smoking as a mild example.

As mentioned, I certainly had a physical addiction to Tramadol, yet have absolutely no problem using it again in limited amounts if need be.

neandermagnon

Wow! Sorry for disappearing, I wasn't expecting to get quite so many replies so quickly!

A massive thanks to you all, lots of great advice and also some things I really needed to hear today (such as"get a grip" and "grow up", I've been telling myself that for ages but it's different hearing it from a stranger). It's all much appreciated.

I'll reply in more detail in the morning but to answer those who asked, activity-wise I'm training for a half marathon at the moment and won't start my proper marathon training until the summer. I've mostly run 10ks and half marathons and usually have a race booked to give me incentive to get off the sofa.

Regarding the sugar cravings being a result of under eating... I don't think that this is the case, if anything I should probably be eating slightly smaller portions (generally I believe I eat well apart from the sugar issues). To those that suggested a total carb detox, perhaps if I weren't training for races this could be an option but it's not something I feel would be wise at the moment.

Also, I unwisely didn't think too much about using the term "sugar addiction", I'm obviously no expert and perhaps it doesn't technically exist but my cravings are certainly what I'd imagine an addiction to feel like. I've found it much easier to give up alcohol and cigarettes than chocolate!

Have you actually measured how many calories you're burning on a run, or in the course of a whole day when you're training?

If you haven't, then as much as you may think you're eating enough (or possibly even eating too much) - you may still be undereating. Just as it's very common to hear that "guesstimating" calories leads to overeating and people not losing weight... the inverse is true as well... guesstimating can just as easily lead to massively undereating. One reason why I log my calories when cutting (losing fat) is because I know that if I just do something like cut out high calorie density foods, the result is me undereating then getting mega hungry and overeating after a few days.... and my calorie needs are nowhere near that of an endurance athlete. Not only that, but a lot of people who guesstimate know of the potential to over-estimate portion sizes and so they compensate by erring on the side of smaller portions....... which just makes the risk of undereastimating portion sizes that much greater. If you're making the kind of healthy food choices that are advised for sedentary obese people, e.g. stick to low calorie density foods, lean protein etc, then that makes the possibility that you're undereating even greater.

So if you have been guesstimating calories, then I still strongly suspect that you're undereating.

If you've measured your calorie burn on long runs or entire days with a heart rate monitor or similar, and you're weighing all your food to ensure that you're not underestimating portion sizes, and you're definitely eating maintenance calories or at a small deficit (10-20%) depending on your goals, then tackle this as an emotional eating/psychological issue. If you've been guesstimating your calorie burns on runs and your calorie needs and portion sizes... then you need to totally reassess how much food you really need and eat the amount you need to eat to meet the high energy demands of the training you're doing.

tennisdude2004

OP, in time you will learn to be more guarded as to what you post, or more specifically as to how you word what you post, so as to not summon the Dark Lord Derp.

In the meantime, here's my suggestion:
- identify which foods trigger binges (you mentioned chocolate)
- don't stock up on them but don't remove them either, buy them in single serving packages
- work on a timetable towards introducing them into your routine

Don't recovering heroine addicts substitute methadone?

I don't want to get drawn into this debate, but just FYI I do count a few heroin addicts among my friends and those that found lasting recovery consider methadone or suboxone to be temporary rather than permanent solutions. I don't think the analogy holds.

My comment about methadone was a flippant rebut to ndj's flippant comment about combating crack by snorting coke (no offence was intended).

I personally don't know any heroine addicts (sorry I'll have to be excluded from that club). I certainly do not think methadone is an answer and probably does not really address the issue the addict faces, but to be honest outside of knowing that methadone is sometimes a prescribed drug to be taken as a substitute I don't really know much else about the subject.

In regards to the OP I'm not sure anyone believes she is suffering an addiction (even the OP herself). She does have cravings she needs to deal with though.

And removing the trigger food for a period of time until those cravings are re-programmed and then slowly re-introducing the (if she wants to) is one way of dealing with the issue - will it work for her - who knows! for a period of a month it's probably worth a try.

Also I'm not sure anyone is suggesting to eat zero carbs. There are plenty of alternative ways to fuel a 10k, half marathon or full marathon without eating junk food (what about potatoes - I know it's very old fashion but it was the food of choice back in the day).

tennisdude2004

No. Its not that simple.

To me, your description also sounds a bit 'idealised' and 'simple'.
I would say a lot of people who are addicted to things aren't "hurting" - that's the whole problem.

I have been physically addicted to a substance (Tramadol) without ticking any of those boxes.
Didn't even realise until I stopped taking it and had classic 'cold turkey' symptoms.
I have used it and similar since and been absolutely fine.

While the way I have often eaten DOES tick a lot of those boxes.

Official American definition of addiction.

Short Definition of Addiction:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.

kuolo

This is the definition that I use for binge eating: (From the DSM) 1. Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g. within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than what most individuals would eat in a similar period of time under similar circumstances. AND 2. A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g. a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating.)

I often consume 1500-3000 calories in a single sitting. I understand that many people eat less than this in a day, so I've got #1 covered, right.

So, if I'm doing it on purpose, it's not binge eating, but if I feel like I can't control myself then it is?

I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm seriously trying to figure out if I have a mental problem, or if I just need to "grow up" as has been suggested.

I do have 2500 left for today, though, so that's probably what supper will look like.

If you're doing it on purpose it definitely is not binge eating. A binge would be when you'd already hit your calorie goals for the day but had an overwhelming urge to stuff everything in sight into your mouth until you are so full you are in severe pain and even then you can't stop. You can't think about anything else, you can't ignore the feeling, you feel like it controls you. It feels very similar to a craving for cigarettes, alcohol or drugs if you have ever experienced any of these. But in my experience it can be even stronger. You might try to do something else, to ignore it, but the urge dominates your mind and body until you give into it. It is an utterly overwhelming feeling. You can't think or speak or sit still because of it. If you have no access to food you might steal or go through the bin. You will hide it from everyone and become secretive and deceptive. You feel disgusted with yourself but powerless to stop. Every time you promise yourself you will never do it again.

I could go on but you get the idea, and it's impossible to convey the strength and horror of it to someone who had never experienced it. If you haven't felt like this then no you haven't binged.

OP: it sounds like your problem is with chocolate specifically so I suspect it is not to do with undereating the rest of the time. I would recommend really trying to cut it out for a substantial period of time.

eldamiano

Sugar is not addictive. However, as others have suggested, just get into a particular habit and you will naturally adapt.