It should be required by federal law...

angelique_redhead

ROFLMAO! Thanks for the laugh. Just some examples of places a lot of people eat that have the nutrition posted online. I NEVER said anything about the quality of the food or the advisibility of eating it.

It would be very helpful if they had the information online if nothing else. I know Taco Bell, McDonalds, Outback and Applebee's do. I have been known to very carefully plan what I was going to eat when going to them thanks to that.

^ the best of the best, as we all know

EvgeniZyntx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Living in Germany, I'm a bit confused by this statement.
Btw, this law already exists.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Would you say BW3 is the "community college" of wingaries?

Oh this day...

Um ... I don't even know what you're trying to say.

Wingeries are like colleges, they're all equally good . . .

Just lol'ing at

People say nasty things about community colleges because they're perceived as lesser (though really, they aren't).

But don't you suggest BW3s serves ACTUAL wings because #buffalo.

rml_16

Would you say BW3 is the "community college" of wingaries?

Oh this day...

Um ... I don't even know what you're trying to say.

Wingeries are like colleges, they're all equally good . . .

Just lol'ing at

People say nasty things about community colleges because they're perceived as lesser (though really, they aren't).

But don't you suggest BW3s serves ACTUAL wings because #buffalo.

Because that's what I said.

OK then.

Yagisama

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Germany also has very strict educational paths that set one on their path at a very young age (Gymnasium vs Hauptschule) which end up severely restricting a person later on in life. So while efficient, I find the German system reprehensible from an individualistic perspective. That said, Germany has changed their fee structure for higher education. Most institutions of higher learning charge little or no tuition.

I have many other complaints about the German and Japanese systems, and they are not perfect by any means, but lets not bring in the teary eyed freedom eagle just yet. In the US, I find people are just too eager to give up consumer power to companies in the guise of freedom.

SunofaBeach14

ROFLMAO! Thanks for the laugh. Just some examples of places a lot of people eat that have the nutrition posted online. I NEVER said anything about the quality of the food or the advisibility of eating it.

It would be very helpful if they had the information online if nothing else. I know Taco Bell, McDonalds, Outback and Applebee's do. I have been known to very carefully plan what I was going to eat when going to them thanks to that.

^ the best of the best, as we all know

So the connection between the same menu month in and month out and the ability to post nutritional information is lost on you. Good to know . . .

PRMinx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Living in Germany, I'm a bit confused by this statement.
Btw, this law already exists.

Yes, we've seen your numerous posts that the law already exists. That doesn't mean that I need to agree with it.

I have several friends who live in Germany who did not qualify to receive higher education (university). They told me that the tests are fairly early in schooling and once you are put on a path, it's nearly impossible to change course. One girl in particular is pretty much destined to be in a vocational job because she just missed the score cutoffs.

So, while the German school system is completely funded and quite excellent, if you don't meet the qualifications to attend university, you have to go elsewhere IF you can afford it. Many of them come to the states. Unfortunately for my friend, even though her father is a high level executive at a big firm, they cannot afford to send her to a U.S. school. She's looking at options but she's pretty resigned to the path she is on.

EvgeniZyntx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Germany also has very strict educational paths that set one on their path at a very young age (Gymnasium vs Hauptschule) which end up severely restricting a person later on in life. So while efficient, I find the German system reprehensible from an individualistic perspective. That said, Germany has changed their fee structure for higher education. Most institutions of higher learning charge little or no tuition.

I have many other complaints about the German and Japanese systems, and they are not perfect by any means, but lets not bring in the teary eyed freedom eagle just yet. In the US, I find people are just too eager to give up consumer power to companies in the guise of freedom.

I guess I should now move to America. The things I learn in this thread.
Never mind that about a fourth of universities in Germany are private.

PRMinx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Germany also has very strict educational paths that set one on their path at a very young age (Gymnasium vs Hauptschule) which end up severely restricting a person later on in life. So while efficient, I find the German system reprehensible from an individualistic perspective. That said, Germany has changed their fee structure for higher education. Most institutions of higher learning charge little or no tuition.

I have many other complaints about the German and Japanese systems, and they are not perfect by any means, but lets not bring in the teary eyed freedom eagle just yet. In the US, I find people are just too eager to give up consumer power to companies in the guise of freedom.

Thank you. You explained that much more eloquently than I did.

I agree whole heatedly that we also give up too much power to the corporations. Quite honestly, this country is run by big politics and big business....and that's why we don't trust anyone.

PRMinx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Germany also has very strict educational paths that set one on their path at a very young age (Gymnasium vs Hauptschule) which end up severely restricting a person later on in life. So while efficient, I find the German system reprehensible from an individualistic perspective. That said, Germany has changed their fee structure for higher education. Most institutions of higher learning charge little or no tuition.

I have many other complaints about the German and Japanese systems, and they are not perfect by any means, but lets not bring in the teary eyed freedom eagle just yet. In the US, I find people are just too eager to give up consumer power to companies in the guise of freedom.

I guess I should now move to America. The things I learn in this thread.
Never mind that about a fourth of universities in Germany are private.

Private = expensive and not available to everyone. Not sure why you are being so snarky on the issue. It is actually the way it works over there...for the majority of the population.

I never said things were perfect here, either. Far from it.

rml_16

I don't know why people are so upset about people distrusting government. It's not as though governments historically have a good track record. They certainly have their place and are necessary (I am not an anarchist), but really? Nothing frightens me more than when I see people in love with a politician or looking to government to solve all our problems.

And I don't think I need to point out what happened in Germany not that long ago with too much trust in a government.

EvgeniZyntx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Living in Germany, I'm a bit confused by this statement.
Btw, this law already exists.

Yes, we've seen your numerous posts that the law already exists. That doesn't mean that I need to agree with it.

I have several friends who live in Germany who did not qualify to receive higher education (university). They told me that the tests are fairly early in schooling and once you are put on a path, it's nearly impossible to change course. One girl in particular is pretty much destined to be in a vocational job because she just missed the score cutoffs.

So, while the German school system is completely funded and quite excellent, if you don't meet the qualifications to attend university, you have to go elsewhere IF you can afford it. Many of them come to the states. Unfortunately for my friend, even though her father is a high level executive at a big firm, they cannot afford to send her to a U.S. school. She's looking at options but she's pretty resigned to the path she is on.

You mean in America schools do not have entrance exams? Ah, ok.
And in America the universities are cheaper than in Germany? Ah, ok.

It's a merit system into the public system, if she wants to study, there are private schools in Germany. Which require payment (less than equivalent schools in the US). Or she can be a university student in any of the Erasmus schools in Europe.

What does she want to study?

EvgeniZyntx

I don't know why people are so upset about people distrusting government. It's not as though governments historically have a good track record. They certainly have their place and are necessary (I am not an anarchist), but really? Nothing frightens me more than when I see people in love with a politician or looking to government to solve all our problems.

And I don't think I need to point out what happened in Germany not that long ago with too much trust in a government.

What happened in Germany?

rml_16

I don't know why people are so upset about people distrusting government. It's not as though governments historically have a good track record. They certainly have their place and are necessary (I am not an anarchist), but really? Nothing frightens me more than when I see people in love with a politician or looking to government to solve all our problems.

And I don't think I need to point out what happened in Germany not that long ago with too much trust in a government.

What happened in Germany?

PRMinx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Living in Germany, I'm a bit confused by this statement.
Btw, this law already exists.

Yes, we've seen your numerous posts that the law already exists. That doesn't mean that I need to agree with it.

I have several friends who live in Germany who did not qualify to receive higher education (university). They told me that the tests are fairly early in schooling and once you are put on a path, it's nearly impossible to change course. One girl in particular is pretty much destined to be in a vocational job because she just missed the score cutoffs.

So, while the German school system is completely funded and quite excellent, if you don't meet the qualifications to attend university, you have to go elsewhere IF you can afford it. Many of them come to the states. Unfortunately for my friend, even though her father is a high level executive at a big firm, they cannot afford to send her to a U.S. school. She's looking at options but she's pretty resigned to the path she is on.

You mean in America schools do not have entrance exams? Ah, ok.
And in America the universities are cheaper than in Germany? Ah, ok.

It's a merit system into the public system, if she wants to study, there are private schools in Germany. Which require payment (less than equivalent schools in the US). Or she can be a university student in any of the Erasmus schools in Europe.

What does she want to study?

Of course American schools are expensive and require testing (although, some are majorly easier than others). That wasn't really what I was getting at though. In fact, I explicitly said it's impossible to compare the two countries.

My point was only that, even though Germany has a reputation for having great social programs, it's not a perfect system. It's important to understand that not everyone gets to reap the benefits of those programs. So, when Americans say things like, Germany is a much better place to live, it may or may not be true depending on individual circumstances (and I'm not saying you said that, I'm just using it as an example).

When the poster questioned why Americans don't trust that our government is actually working on our behalf or that government in general is "for the people", but that the Germans do trust big government, the first thing that popped into my mind was the educational system because, while awesome on the outside, it is an imperfect government system.

She wants to study marketing but simply cannot afford the private institutions there or in the States. Her father makes a good income but her mother does not work and taxes are very high. I do not know much about the ability to obtain loans, so I won't comment on that.

EvgeniZyntx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Germany also has very strict educational paths that set one on their path at a very young age (Gymnasium vs Hauptschule) which end up severely restricting a person later on in life. So while efficient, I find the German system reprehensible from an individualistic perspective. That said, Germany has changed their fee structure for higher education. Most institutions of higher learning charge little or no tuition.

I have many other complaints about the German and Japanese systems, and they are not perfect by any means, but lets not bring in the teary eyed freedom eagle just yet. In the US, I find people are just too eager to give up consumer power to companies in the guise of freedom.

I guess I should now move to America. The things I learn in this thread.
Never mind that about a fourth of universities in Germany are private.

Private = expensive and not available to everyone. Not sure why you are being so snarky on the issue. It is actually the way it works over there...for the majority of the population.

I never said things were perfect here, either. Far from it.

Because the information you provide is incorrect.
Universities are pretty much open to all citizens (you do need to complete a high school degree, you might not get in for a few years...) but the quota system guarantees that those waiting the longest do get an eventual slot.

Entrance is based on GPA and exams and interviews. Imagine that.
And I'm intimately familiar with this because my daughter is currently applying to schools in Germany, Belgium and France.

lemurcat12

there are restaurants in "developing" countries as well.

Did anyone suggest there aren't? The question is whether the need for every single restaurant, including mom & pop types, to offer accurate calorie counts is a hot issue. My suspicion is no.

Also, as for US anti-gov't attitudes vs. Europe and Japan, are all restaurants in those countries required to hand out nutritional information? That sure wasn't the case last time I was in Italy (no comment on Italian government intended).

PRMinx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

Germany also has very strict educational paths that set one on their path at a very young age (Gymnasium vs Hauptschule) which end up severely restricting a person later on in life. So while efficient, I find the German system reprehensible from an individualistic perspective. That said, Germany has changed their fee structure for higher education. Most institutions of higher learning charge little or no tuition.

I have many other complaints about the German and Japanese systems, and they are not perfect by any means, but lets not bring in the teary eyed freedom eagle just yet. In the US, I find people are just too eager to give up consumer power to companies in the guise of freedom.

I guess I should now move to America. The things I learn in this thread.
Never mind that about a fourth of universities in Germany are private.

Private = expensive and not available to everyone. Not sure why you are being so snarky on the issue. It is actually the way it works over there...for the majority of the population.

I never said things were perfect here, either. Far from it.

Because the information you provide is incorrect.
Universities are pretty much open to all citizens (you do need to complete a high school degree, you might not get in for a few years...) but the quota system guarantees that those waiting the longest do get an eventual slot.

Entrance is based on GPA and exams and interviews. Imagine that.
And I'm intimately familiar with this because my daughter is currently applying to schools in Germany, Belgium and France.

Ok. So, let's set aside private schools because that's outside of this conversation.

Are you saying that the pathing system that sends students to Gymnasium, Realschule or Hauptschule no longer exists?

shawmutt

What happened in Germany?

seriously? Jesus, one generation passes away and all the lessons are forgotten.



This country was better off when even the government was against government, and there was no need for term limits for politicians because no one really wanted the job for long! I for one am glad to see Bloomberg and his stranglehold on soda sizes, and standard capacity magazines.