It should be required by federal law...
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That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.
Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.
Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.
While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.
Living in Germany, I'm a bit confused by this statement.
Btw, this law already exists.
Yes, we've seen your numerous posts that the law already exists. That doesn't mean that I need to agree with it.
I have several friends who live in Germany who did not qualify to receive higher education (university). They told me that the tests are fairly early in schooling and once you are put on a path, it's nearly impossible to change course. One girl in particular is pretty much destined to be in a vocational job because she just missed the score cutoffs.
So, while the German school system is completely funded and quite excellent, if you don't meet the qualifications to attend university, you have to go elsewhere IF you can afford it. Many of them come to the states. Unfortunately for my friend, even though her father is a high level executive at a big firm, they cannot afford to send her to a U.S. school. She's looking at options but she's pretty resigned to the path she is on.
You mean in America schools do not have entrance exams? Ah, ok.
And in America the universities are cheaper than in Germany? Ah, ok.
It's a merit system into the public system, if she wants to study, there are private schools in Germany. Which require payment (less than equivalent schools in the US). Or she can be a university student in any of the Erasmus schools in Europe.
What does she want to study?
Of course American schools are expensive and require testing (although, some are majorly easier than others). That wasn't really what I was getting at though. In fact, I explicitly said it's impossible to compare the two countries.
My point was only that, even though Germany has a reputation for having great social programs, it's not a perfect system. It's important to understand that not everyone gets to reap the benefits of those programs. So, when Americans say things like, Germany is a much better place to live, it may or may not be true depending on individual circumstances (and I'm not saying you said that, I'm just using it as an example).
When the poster questioned why Americans don't trust that our government is actually working on our behalf or that government in general is "for the people", but that the Germans do trust big government, the first thing that popped into my mind was the educational system because, while awesome on the outside, it is an imperfect government system.
She wants to study marketing but simply cannot afford the private institutions there or in the States. Her father makes a good income but her mother does not work and taxes are very high. I do not know much about the ability to obtain loans, so I won't comment on that.
It's a little simplistic to consider that "Germans do trust big government" I can give counter examples with regards to privacy, current shifts in finance and health insurance law (private sector coverage is sometimes stronger than in the US).
Re - your friend's daughter - loans are available but not as easily as in the US. The thing is that she likely has the expectation of paying 200€ a trimester and paying private fees are much higher but not unreasonably so. Options are other schools in Europe, wait a year or two, or choose a more open path.0 -
Your not child anymore and the government is Not your parents!!
Time to grow up and take responsibilities for your actions!!0 -
That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.
Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.
Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.
While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.
Living in Germany, I'm a bit confused by this statement.
Btw, this law already exists.
Yes, we've seen your numerous posts that the law already exists. That doesn't mean that I need to agree with it.
I have several friends who live in Germany who did not qualify to receive higher education (university). They told me that the tests are fairly early in schooling and once you are put on a path, it's nearly impossible to change course. One girl in particular is pretty much destined to be in a vocational job because she just missed the score cutoffs.
So, while the German school system is completely funded and quite excellent, if you don't meet the qualifications to attend university, you have to go elsewhere IF you can afford it. Many of them come to the states. Unfortunately for my friend, even though her father is a high level executive at a big firm, they cannot afford to send her to a U.S. school. She's looking at options but she's pretty resigned to the path she is on.
You mean in America schools do not have entrance exams? Ah, ok.
And in America the universities are cheaper than in Germany? Ah, ok.
It's a merit system into the public system, if she wants to study, there are private schools in Germany. Which require payment (less than equivalent schools in the US). Or she can be a university student in any of the Erasmus schools in Europe.
What does she want to study?
Of course American schools are expensive and require testing (although, some are majorly easier than others). That wasn't really what I was getting at though. In fact, I explicitly said it's impossible to compare the two countries.
My point was only that, even though Germany has a reputation for having great social programs, it's not a perfect system. It's important to understand that not everyone gets to reap the benefits of those programs. So, when Americans say things like, Germany is a much better place to live, it may or may not be true depending on individual circumstances (and I'm not saying you said that, I'm just using it as an example).
When the poster questioned why Americans don't trust that our government is actually working on our behalf or that government in general is "for the people", but that the Germans do trust big government, the first thing that popped into my mind was the educational system because, while awesome on the outside, it is an imperfect government system.
She wants to study marketing but simply cannot afford the private institutions there or in the States. Her father makes a good income but her mother does not work and taxes are very high. I do not know much about the ability to obtain loans, so I won't comment on that.
It's a little simplistic to consider that "Germans do trust big government" I can give counter examples with regards to privacy, current shifts in finance and health insurance law (private sector coverage is sometimes stronger than in the US).
I was simply repeating what was suggested in an earlier post. Not being a German, or living in Germany, I wouldn't know whether Germans trust big government or not. My friend is certainly skeptical but that is only one person.0 -
Expensive? it would take about 2-4 hours (depending on menu size) to sit down with a menu and go through every item and calculate the totals. Then you could print out 1 copy for each table and laminate it and it could cost less than 50 bucks.
There is no excuse not to let your customers know whats in what they are eating.
No....the FDA would have to do this.
It is a first world problem as somebody mentions above....but it's killing us off nonetheless.0 -
I'm astonished at the number of Americans who not only want fewer rights and protections, they want to throw out the ones their predecessors fought so hard to attain, too. They also tend to be the same Americans who don't know how to debate but instead make personal attacks.
Guess what, red herrings can't be debated and since that's the only tool in your debate toolbox, there's no point in seriously engaging you.0 -
Expensive? it would take about 2-4 hours (depending on menu size) to sit down with a menu and go through every item and calculate the totals. Then you could print out 1 copy for each table and laminate it and it could cost less than 50 bucks.
There is no excuse not to let your customers know whats in what they are eating.
No....the FDA would have to do this.
It is a first world problem as somebody mentions above....but it's killing us off nonetheless.
:huh:0 -
I'm astonished at the number of Americans who not only want fewer rights and protections, they want to throw out the ones their predecessors fought so hard to attain, too. They also tend to be the same Americans who don't know how to debate but instead make personal attacks.
Agree!!0 -
I agree, but I know they don't want to do it, because the nutrition is non-existent. For example my wife and I went to Chilis this past Friday and my Basic Bacon burger and fries had more sodium in it then my day allows for. My day calls for 2500mg of sodium, my dinner had 3600mg, 50% more then desired, if people really knew what was in the dinner, my guess is many might stop, but then again the calories are on there so maybe not, the only reason we went is because we were given a gift card otherwise, forget it!
Regulation is a tricky thing, supposedly this country was built on getting away from over-regulation, yet at the same time, the horrid nutritional content of restaurants causes all sorts of problems whereby the medical cost is picked up by the taxpayer via medicare, which pays half of all health care expenditures in the US. Many older people with congestive heart failure will go out to eat once in a while for their date night and end up in the ER because of the sodium content, but the restaurant has no incentive to change because their is a line out the door.
The cause of the problems is not restaurants. It's the people that consistently over consume food and people with existing health conditions that don't heed sound medical advice. Stop blaming others for what you lack.0 -
Could vote with your dollar and eat at restaurants that make that information available. Unfortunately, you might be eating a lot of Subway, depending on where you live.0
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seriously? Jesus, one generation passes away and all the lessons are forgotten.
This country was better off when even the government was against government, and there was no need for term limits for politicians because no one really wanted the job for long! I for one am glad to see Bloomberg and his stranglehold on soda sizes, and standard capacity magazines.
Agree!!0 -
Expensive? it would take about 2-4 hours (depending on menu size) to sit down with a menu and go through every item and calculate the totals. Then you could print out 1 copy for each table and laminate it and it could cost less than 50 bucks.
There is no excuse not to let your customers know whats in what they are eating.
No....the FDA would have to do this.
It is a first world problem as somebody mentions above....but it's killing us off nonetheless.
Going to a restaurant that we make a conscious choice of going to that doesn't provide nutritional information is killing us off????
Wow people if you are so worried stay HOME!0 -
Haha...
"It's killing us off, nonetheless."
High-sodium and calorie food roaming the countryside, crushing all in its path, seeking out humans!
Yeah, take some g@dd@mn responsibility for your actions. No one puts a gun to your head and says "Eat at Chili's" or "You can't eat just one." That's you, everybody. It IS possible to make a poor eating decision once in a while and not only stay in shape, but survive to old age...0 -
Settle down. He was being facetious.
seriously? Jesus, one generation passes away and all the lessons are forgotten.
This country was better off when even the government was against government, and there was no need for term limits for politicians because no one really wanted the job for long! I for one am glad to see Bloomberg and his stranglehold on soda sizes, and standard capacity magazines.
Agree!!0 -
How is this thread still going??? If you want to see nutritional information then only frequent restaurants that provide them. If you've ever worked in a non fast food food kitchen then you would know that even if you were provided nutritional info, it would only be a ballpark estimate for many many reasons. Only preprocessed crap like fast food that is basically just heated up in the restaurant will be accurate enough to make a difference. If you really want to know the exact nutritional data for what you're eating then cook at home and figure it out for yourself.0
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Expensive? it would take about 2-4 hours (depending on menu size) to sit down with a menu and go through every item and calculate the totals. Then you could print out 1 copy for each table and laminate it and it could cost less than 50 bucks.
There is no excuse not to let your customers know whats in what they are eating.
No....the FDA would have to do this.
It is a first world problem as somebody mentions above....but it's killing us off nonetheless.
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...To have printed "Nutrition Facts" for every menu item in every restaurant in the country. It should be required to have it available either in print, at the front of the restaurant, or online for anyone to read. Does anyone else get as frustrated as I do when they go out to eat?
California only has it for chains. It really helps you to see your past choices and how wrong they were.0 -
My husband and I owned a small fine dining restaurant. The menu had the ability to change every few days as we bought fresh and available. I would have had to sit and redo a nutritional information every other day. The time and energy would have been crazy to do that. If you had a dietary requirement all you had to do was say something (and most did when reservations were made) and the chef (hubby) would cook accordingly. That wasn't a problem - he actually enjoyed it. Vegan, vegetarian, allergy, whatever, We had one lady come in on a liquid diet - he would specially make her 3 courses of soups when she came in, just so she could have every course.
If you have a standard menu and several locations - sure it would be nice, but a small family run place like we had - it would have been a nightmare. We didn't even have a printed menu - I just told you what was available each night (usually 5-6 choices) Unless you ordered a specific item (lobster or something with your reservation).0 -
Has anyone mentioned that, in Ontario, they're putting this regulation into place. Keep in mind, it is only for fast food joints and only a calorie content is going to be placed (written next to the price for each menu item). It will not effect independent shops or places where you sit down with a menu booklet and a waiter serves you. Only places like Mcdonalds, Wendy's, etc.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ontario-law-to-force-calorie-count-on-fast-food-menus-1.2549382
"Only restaurants that have more than 20 Ontario locations and do more than $5 million of business annually will be affected by the legislation."
"the new law would require them to post calorie counts prominently on menu boards or menus or alongside the food when it is served."
"Bill 59 requires high or very high sodium items to be flagged somewhere on the premises, though not necessarily on the menu board."0 -
Expensive? it would take about 2-4 hours (depending on menu size) to sit down with a menu and go through every item and calculate the totals. Then you could print out 1 copy for each table and laminate it and it could cost less than 50 bucks.
There is no excuse not to let your customers know whats in what they are eating.
Heh, well that's charming.0 -
I would love it if it was always available in some form...though I must say I do not like it so "in your face" as to be on every menu item all the time...example: needed something to eat at the airport in NY. Slim pickings. Went to a sports bar type place where every menu item had the nutritional info...couldn't find anything even remotely healthy but needed to eat.... I ordered terrible chili that was about 900 calories for a bowl. Plus is was expensive.I'd rather have been in ignorance if my choices are bad or worse and just get what sounds good.
But in general, yes, I wish I could always find the info if I wanted it. I just pick something from the database that sounds close when I don't have the actual info. It's not perfect, but it doesn't happen enough that it's really an issue.
On a side bar...it would be great if every place could offer lighter menu options, like under 500 calorie choices. That would make me super happy.
They do. It's called only eating part of it. Now you can be super happy!0
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