Your food is no cleaner than mine

Bernadette60614

The answer to those questions could go on for pages (and then I wouldn't have time to track!), but you might google "sugar history" and "processed foods history".

Or, you could try your own variation of above.

Thanks for your question.

Strokingdiction

The answer to those questions could go on for pages (and then I wouldn't have time to track!), but you might google "sugar history" and "processed foods history".

Or, you could try your own variation of above.

Thanks for your question.

Makes claim.

Unwilling to back claim up.

Bernadette60614

Thanks for your interest in this exchange. Best of success in your own journey. If anyone would like to explore this further, there is a Clean Eating Group on MFP.

Strokingdiction

Thanks for your interest in this exchange. Best of success in your own journey. If anyone would like to explore this further, there is a Clean Eating Group on MFP.

Will you be backing your claims up there?

rml_16

Back when most families had a garden, you came into town once a week to buy produce from the local farmers and you ate poultry/beef that came from free range poultry and grass fed beef....they just called it eating food. And, no one debated it...you ate food that had been largely produced without chemicals.

Sugar was a luxury/white flour was a luxury. You had it on holidays and special occasion. They called that "treats". Something you eat on a daily basis wasn't a "treat"..it happened only a few times a year.

I like to say: I eat food. I have occasional treats.

How did the food grow without lots and lots of chemicals? Bread was only eaten a few times a year? What time period are you talking about?

Wheat flour was pretty abundant and widely consumed for centuries and centuries. Grain has been a staple for thousands of years.

The domestication of cats is directly related to how much humans relied on grain for sustenance.

tennisdude2004

In fact only the other day I read a post with someone demanding (in the normal NBA way) that someone confirmed their definition of what was healthy food.

And then went on to say, well what's healthy for one person doesn't hold the same benefits for another - no win situation!!!!

I've personally been asked that on these sort of threads and my response is always the same - NOT broad bean!

I will modify--on MFP certainly you will get challenged if you say "I only eat healthy foods and don't eat unhealthy ones" or if you make an assertion that a particular food item is healthy or not (especially not). But that's different than saying "I try to eat healthy" which is a short form way of saying "I try to eat a healthy diet." I would argue that a healthy diet can be made up of nutrition rich foods (often referred to as healthy) and foods that are less so, that the mix is what decides what is healthy (I think this is also what IIFYM says, although I reject that label like all other labelled diets).

What is different about "I'm a clean eater" is that it doesn't focus on overall mix or on process, but on the rejection of offending food items. That's why it makes sense to call someone on eating an Oreo in that case, but not someone who merely claims to try to eat healthy. (For the record I wouldn't, since I hate all arguments based on alleged hypocrisy. Everyone is hypocritical to some extent and often by hypocrisy people just mean a failure to live up to your goals.)

If people also get critical responses for trying on a personal level to improve their diets or eat healthier, etc., that would be wrong, IMO, but I haven't seen it. It's also possible that this clear distinction I see between the "clean eating" label and "I try to eat whole foods, mostly" is more personal than I'm realizing and I'm just crazy, but so far it seems so obvious to me I don't get why everyone doesn't just agree with me. ;-)

Really? Okay!

SymphonynSonata

In

chivalryder

All of my food is clean! I wash every meal with soap before I eat it!

suremeansyes

Strokingdiction

All of my food is clean! I wash every meal with soap before I eat it!

I just eat soap. Beat that!

chivalryder

All of my food is clean! I wash every meal with soap before I eat it!

I just eat soap. Beat that!

Bernadette60614

I'm not here to convince or persuade anyone. Thank you, however, for your continued interest in this exchange.

If someone is interested in learning more about food production and consumption patterns and how it has changed over time, Google is a fantastic resource.

Best of success in your journey.

rml_16

I'm not here to convince or persuade anyone. Thank you, however, for your continued interest in this exchange.

If someone is interested in learning more about food production and consumption patterns and how it has changed over time, Google is a fantastic resource.

Best of success in your journey.

Google is a search engine that often leads to websites making outrageous claims based on bad science and research.

Just sayin'.

richardositosanchez

I've known several "clean eating" "Paleo diet" people who've been doing it for over 1½ to 2 years and have yet to lose a single pound or improve their health in any way. I just shrug when they ask me how I've managed to lose weight without really dieting.

jmv7117

You do realize that by and large the only people who talk about dirty food are those who are against clean eating right? I've never heard any clean eater talk about food being dirty; most don't get close to even judging other people's food choices. Most of the clean eaters I know or those like me who subscribe to the idea of clean eating don't think of clean as being a moral judgment or of other foods are dirty. Usually clean is used in these contexts to mean not possessing things that individual doesn't want to put in their body - therefore, the opposite to clean isn't dirty, it's things they just don't want to put in their body. At worst the opposite of clean eating is eating 'undesirable' things, but since it's more or less defined individually, I hardly see how that's prblematic. Food is always desriable or undesirable on an individual basis - just because I hate celery because it tastes icky to me, and therefore its undesirable and I don't want to eat it, does that somehow affect you and your relationship with celery? If it does, that's a problem with you, not with me.

People all have different views on what is healthy or unhealthy, and what they want to put in their body. If someone wants to chose not to put animal products, or processed food, or pesticides, or GMOs into their body, why do you care? Its their personal food choices, and you shouldn't get to judge them for it, even if what you're judging is how they describe their eating style.

I think it's argumentative to try and say that labelling something clean MUST mean that anything else is dirty, and that it's ridiculous to judge a way of eating on nothing more than its name. Naming conventions aren't about being perfectly descriptive, they're about being catchy. If you have to get all philosophical to find a good argument against a person choosing to eat clean, I think you're really reaching. That, and clean's a perfectly acceptable way of describing most of these food plans. They're based largely on eliminating undesirable (defined by each individual or individual plan) elements from our food and diet - that's one meaning of clean.

It can't be forgotten that words have many meanings or slightly different meanings depending on context. Yes, in some contexts clean and dirty have moral connotations; in others, they really really don't. Reading those kinds of things into this context is quite beside the point and actually rather inappropriate. I'd say that to anyone on either side of the debate, but honestly, I've only ever seen it from clean eating bashers.

^^^^THIS!

jmv7117

I love it when people get there knickers in a twist about what things are called!

Can't question the healthiness of a diet so I will piss and whine that it's called the wrong thing!

I know these things make you guys mad - but seriously!

:drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker:

Rubie81

I like it dirty.

WendyTerry420

But I would ask from an health and nutritional point is a clean eating diet inferior to other diets? and if so why?

No it's fine. And no one is saying clean eating is bad. Just the amount of clean eaters telling people who choose to eat some candy or ice cream are doing it wrong is what is annoying. Especially when a lot of new comers get these responses of eliminating some food groups. Restrictions on a diet can help some people, but shouldn't be the first thing recommended, especially with the threat of sugar being evil.
In reality even those clean eaters adhere to a similar diet as the non clean eaters (80-20). This is why there's friction between these two groups a lot of the time.

Based on the fact that a majority of members on MFP are calorie counting and eating in moderation or IIFYM, I'm not sure how the first message newbies get is anything other than the MFP official guidelines.

I don't know if I agree agree with this. I see plenty of forums with either newcomer or those having problems losing weight where members come in and say "eat clean" or "give up [insert food group]" all the time. And then I see members coming in and saying eat the same foods you already do but eat at a reasonable deficit. Then the argument ensues and the newbie gets confused. And for those having problems losing weight without a medical condition it's often a matter of underestimating intake and overestimating calorie burn.

QFT


I am just glad that I ran across SideSteel as soon as I found the forums and send him a friend request. (One of the few FRs that I've sent) I honestly believed the mythical hokey that you had to give up certain nutrient subsets in order to lose weight. I never would have made it more than a month if I had continued with that line of thinking. Once I understood macronutrients and what a calorie actually is, it made it *very* easy to drop 80 pounds over the course of a year.

You've come a long ways these last two years...

...both in knowledge/approach/attitude and in progress. :drinker:

Aw shucks... :blushing:

The one thing I'm pretty good at is the ability to listen to smart people and to alter my viewpoint when presented with new information.

WendyTerry420

Why not just call it food? I don't label my food, other than to say, "breakfast," "lunch," "dinner," "dessert," or "snack."

Balance is definitely relative to lifestyle, just as "yummy" food or "gross" food is relative to taste buds.

Because we label everything. Everything. Dinner is a label. Its what humans do to make sense of the world around them. Its how we know what we are looking at or for. Its how we decide on one thing versus another.

Dinner is a label for the food I eat during dinner time. There is no connotation to it.

It is still a label. Any connotation you apply to a label is your issue with the label. If what you eat matters not and labels are not important, why even label it dinner, why not just say my 3rd meal consisted of, or i ate XYZ after work? You do so, so people know you are talking abut the meal you eat later in the day, its easier, shorter and quicker. If i object to the label dinner for whatever reason i make up, it's my issue right? Same premise. I say i eat clean because its shorter and easier then explaining my diet in detail. Most rationally thinking people understand that means i cook at home using fresh raw whole food and don't buy premade foods or foods that have a lot of additives. My exact diet is not important. Just like what you eat for dinner isn't irrelevant to the phrase "i eat dinner at 6 everyday". But if asked you will explain it in more details.(I had this food for dinner. I do not eat xyz in my diet) And then if you happen to be on MFP, your choices get labeled as wrong and people demand you defend and explain them and then push their preferred method of diet on you. If it turns out in 20 years that added sugar really isn't unhealthy for you at all, then I am still not harming myself by avoiding it. Its still means i eat more healthier foods (like fresh veggies and fruit) and makes it easier to reach my goals.

The connotation is the difference. "Clean" has a plethora of connotation. "Dinner" has none at all.

Rays_Wife

Seriously. I'm not a healthy eater by any means, love me some pop tarts icecream or whatever but this is getting so old :yawn: Eat what you wanna eat, let others eat what they wanna eat, no need to brag about your ice cream/gelato cleanse or whatever it is you're doing. WHO CARES /end thread

daw0518

I'm with you. The snarkiest, most aggressive posts I've seen on these boards are from the people who mock newbies who are trying to eat cleaner.

Maybe I also haven't been paying attention, but most of the posts of that type I've seen have been motivated, in my opinion, by the hope that newbies trying to eat cleaner will know that (depending on their goals) they don't have to give up everything they love to eat in order to get where they want to go. I know I wouldn't be down 40 pounds today if I hadn't increased my fruits, veggies, and lean meats, but I also know I wouldn't be here at all if I'd thought I had to completely give up my peanut butter M&Ms.

I 100% agree with this. I think a lot of people are unnecessarily rude, but the questions of "why exactly are you cutting out _____?" are valid ones. I think there's a huge difference between the people who are educated about their options and choose to eat a certain way based on their research or based on medical advice, and the newbies who choose to "eat clean" as another fad diet they just heard about.

jmv7117

Right TennisDude.

Someone who's not Paleo telling me I'm not Paleo is just about as valid as someone who's not a clean eater telling a clean eater their diet isn't clean.

But, sometimes it's good to have something to argue about, and diet theories are relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things.

(I will now patiently await someone to search my journal and see that I ate OMG PIZZA!!! this week!)

Make sure to point out that PIZZA is NOT paleo.

Simple, ask a clean eater what clean eating, 99% of the time, they do not adhere to their own definition. But apparently that isn't valid

Which blows my mind. Do they not realize by saying "I eat clean 80% of the time and 20% I eat what I want"...OH, so...moderation? Like the rest of us?

Do they just need the label?

It's just a way for them to feel superior since they don't have much to brag about!

So why is your label/name of how to eat (moderation, IIFYM, etc.) better than ours? Or is your opinion of a lifestyle/diet that you must follow it to the letter 100% of the time, no exceptions ever, or you're not following it? What about diets that PURPOSEFULLY have you follow an 80%/20% type of plan? What do you call those then?

It's INCREDIBLY rude, arrogant and superior to say that those whe call themselves clean eaters are just doing it to be superior becuase they have nothing else to brag about. Labels exist to be an easier way of describing something - instead of specifically stating everything you do or don't eat, or everything you think about food, it's much more practical to simply say clean, or Primal, or IIFYM, etc.You label your way of eating too - so are you just a person who wants a label to feel superior because you have nothing to brag about?

I fully agree! The problem is on the forum it i those who are vocally not clean eater that start these threads solely to stir the pot. They are not going to say anything that would make me change the way I eat nor do I expect anything I say to change the way they eat. While I can't speak for all clean eaters, I'm sure they feel the same way. I honestly don't care what anyone else eat! It makes me wonder if the so called unclean eaters are lacking some dietary nutrient that brings out their aggression towards the word clean :laugh:

WendyTerry420

Seriously. I'm not a healthy eater by any means, love me some pop tarts icecream or whatever but this is getting so old :yawn: Eat what you wanna eat, let others eat what they wanna eat, no need to brag about your ice cream/gelato cleanse or whatever it is you're doing. WHO CARES /end thread

Hey, if you don't want to participate in an ice cream cleanse, then don't go in that thread.

pseudomuffin

I feel so dirty

MizTerry

But but but...I brushed them with toothpaste!

Rays_Wife

Seriously. I'm not a healthy eater by any means, love me some pop tarts icecream or whatever but this is getting so old :yawn: Eat what you wanna eat, let others eat what they wanna eat, no need to brag about your ice cream/gelato cleanse or whatever it is you're doing. WHO CARES /end thread

Hey, if you don't want to participate in an ice cream cleanse, then don't go in that thread.

I do what I want.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

SunofaBeach14

Right TennisDude.

Someone who's not Paleo telling me I'm not Paleo is just about as valid as someone who's not a clean eater telling a clean eater their diet isn't clean.

But, sometimes it's good to have something to argue about, and diet theories are relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things.

(I will now patiently await someone to search my journal and see that I ate OMG PIZZA!!! this week!)

Make sure to point out that PIZZA is NOT paleo.

Simple, ask a clean eater what clean eating, 99% of the time, they do not adhere to their own definition. But apparently that isn't valid

Which blows my mind. Do they not realize by saying "I eat clean 80% of the time and 20% I eat what I want"...OH, so...moderation? Like the rest of us?

Do they just need the label?

It's just a way for them to feel superior since they don't have much to brag about!

So why is your label/name of how to eat (moderation, IIFYM, etc.) better than ours? Or is your opinion of a lifestyle/diet that you must follow it to the letter 100% of the time, no exceptions ever, or you're not following it? What about diets that PURPOSEFULLY have you follow an 80%/20% type of plan? What do you call those then?

It's INCREDIBLY rude, arrogant and superior to say that those whe call themselves clean eaters are just doing it to be superior becuase they have nothing else to brag about. Labels exist to be an easier way of describing something - instead of specifically stating everything you do or don't eat, or everything you think about food, it's much more practical to simply say clean, or Primal, or IIFYM, etc.You label your way of eating too - so are you just a person who wants a label to feel superior because you have nothing to brag about?

I fully agree! The problem is on the forum it i those who are vocally not clean eater that start these threads solely to stir the pot. They are not going to say anything that would make me change the way I eat nor do I expect anything I say to change the way they eat. While I can't speak for all clean eaters, I'm sure they feel the same way. I honestly don't care what anyone else eat! It makes me wonder if the so called unclean eaters are lacking some dietary nutrient that brings out their aggression towards the word clean :laugh:

I've watched quite a few people change their minds over time and move from "clean" eating to IIFYM. Look at the diets of all so many of us who have lost, kept it off, and recomped.

snikkins

I personally find it fascinating that people who have planted themselves in one camp are unable to see the snark, or claim to have never seen the snark, coming from their own group. I think this is what the OP was getting at - labeling foods as "clean" by definition makes foods that don't fit into that definition "dirty" or "unclean." That's just how it works; humans categorize things into groups and just because you didn't intend to make a second group by labeling something "clean" doesn't mean it didn't happen. It might not be intended by every single person using the term "clean," but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. On top of that, it really just isn't a helpful term overall.

Everyone I know outside of MFP who is on a diet is "eating clean" and they 1) make sure everyone knows it and 2) make sure everyone knows how much their suffering for doing so. I currently am enjoying putting the Thin Mint flavor of Coffeemate into my coffee in the morning; I was told that "if I actually knew what was in it, I wouldn't want it anymore" (I've used this example before but for some reason it really stuck with me). I do think it frustrates many of the people I know that I have been successful at losing weight without "eating clean."

*note: "you" was meant to be a general term for people who aren't me

tennisdude2004

I've known several "clean eating" "Paleo diet" people who've been doing it for over 1½ to 2 years and have yet to lose a single pound or improve their health in any way. I just shrug when they ask me how I've managed to lose weight without really dieting.

There's a user here I used to argue with, had Paleo as part of her name and everything. She was all about the clean eating and processed foods are what makes us fat and all of it.

She'd been a member here for years. She'd lost 2lbs.

She's sticking with Paleo, but she took down her weight loss ticker.