Your food is no cleaner than mine
Replies
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So I wonder, is there a label that won't get everyone worked up? If I choose to eat mostly whole foods, and try to minimize the amount of processed foods I eat, is there a term I can use to describe my diet without pissing everyone off? And what if I don't do it 100% of the time, but just try to adhere to it as a lifestyle choice? Can I still use this label (yet to be coined) to describe my preferred way of eating? Why don't the oracles on this thread come up with one, and then we can all go on our merry way.
"I choose to eat mostly whole foods, and try to minimize the amount of processed foods I eat"
You did perfect right there. Why need a label?0 -
So I wonder, is there a label that won't get everyone worked up? If I choose to eat mostly whole foods, and try to minimize the amount of processed foods I eat, is there a term I can use to describe my diet without pissing everyone off? And what if I don't do it 100% of the time, but just try to adhere to it as a lifestyle choice? Can I still use this label (yet to be coined) to describe my preferred way of eating? Why don't the oracles on this thread come up with one, and then we can all go on our merry way.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic to your point here. I think IIFYM is as close as you can find because, frankly we are eating much "cleaner" than the SAD, though the clean eating enthusiasts' fear of cancer tends take it extremes. Well, that and I love the Windex gifs so there's that . . .0 -
The following comment does not apply to all "clean" eaters...but some of them...
I hate shopping in the same store with some of them...they are obnoxious! rude! judgmental!
I avoid Whole Foods...not only the prices but the shoppers.
Trader Joes can be almost as bad but the prices are reasonable.
I shop now at my neighborhood Sprouts (though I have been in some of them where it is almost as bad). For some reason this one is different...no rude...obnoxious...judgmental people.
A couple of months ago I stopped in a Whole Foods to pick up this bread that I wanted to try...it was packed with some of the rudest people that I have ever seen...each one of them with the attitude that they were the most important shopper in the store.
Okay...that is my rant and rave...I don't care how someone chooses to eat as long as they keep their attitudes to themselves.
Oh...one last rant...
They turn their noses up at processed food...all the while they are eating their processed Greek yogurt...(don't get me wrong...I eat Greek yogurt...love the caramel macchiato that Dannons puts out...just finished one).
This attitude exists regardless of where you shop! Rudeness is not confined to one particular store, restaurant or even on the forums. I personally don't shop Whole Foods but it is for ethical reasons besides the shoppers. Trust me, you haven't seen rudeness until you have shopped at Walmart! Seriously, there are some nosey parkers at Walmart who do think it is their right to make comments on what you are buying. That happens at every store though so either develop an "If I wanted your opinion, I would give it to you" attitude or don't shop there. If you don't care how someone chooses to eat as long as they keep their opinions to themselves, then why is it ok for you to judge them? Why are you concerning yourself with what they are buying with their money? You do realize that just because they buy something does not mean they themselves consume it. I would hazard a guess as to why your negative attitude is coming out but that is fodder for another thread :laugh:
If you go back and reread...I didn't judge what they eat...nor what they were buying...you just assumed that I did.
I judged their rudeness...
As far as you assuming about my negative attitude...was it any more negative than your response to me? You can guess all you want...doesn't mean that you will be even close to right. You are welcome though to start a thread about me and hazard a guess...if you want.0 -
So I wonder, is there a label that won't get everyone worked up? If I choose to eat mostly whole foods, and try to minimize the amount of processed foods I eat, is there a term I can use to describe my diet without pissing everyone off? And what if I don't do it 100% of the time, but just try to adhere to it as a lifestyle choice? Can I still use this label (yet to be coined) to describe my preferred way of eating? Why don't the oracles on this thread come up with one, and then we can all go on our merry way.
"I choose to eat mostly whole foods, and try to minimize the amount of processed foods I eat"
You did perfect right there. Why need a label?
Never mind.0 -
I shower before eating. So I'm doing it wrong?I eat clean.
I always clean my vegs before cooking it.0 -
So I wonder, is there a label that won't get everyone worked up? If I choose to eat mostly whole foods, and try to minimize the amount of processed foods I eat, is there a term I can use to describe my diet without pissing everyone off? And what if I don't do it 100% of the time, but just try to adhere to it as a lifestyle choice? Can I still use this label (yet to be coined) to describe my preferred way of eating? Why don't the oracles on this thread come up with one, and then we can all go on our merry way.
Why do you need a label? I guess that's the bit I don't understand. If someone asks me how I eat, I say I try to eat a healthy diet, lots of vegetables, or some such. Or maybe "I'm trying to get back to cooking more." Honestly, maybe it's again the environment point, but if I said "I eat clean, mostly," I think that would raise more questions than it answers, since everyone has different ideas about what it means.
(But if I knew you and you said "I eat clean" to me I wouldn't be snide or anything, of course. I just would have no clue what you really meant. Now, I don't know what you mean by "I eat healthy" either, of course, but it's less in your face from my perspective, since it's more focused on overall diet vs. specific items.)0 -
I also read this article, and I liked it, however I'm not sure that when people say they're eating "clean," they mean they're eating the-opposite-of-dirty. I think it just sounds nice when you say it since it kind of rhymes and it easier than saying "I'm eating non-processed, organic, natural foods" because that's a mouthful. I've never thought that someone saying they eat clean means they think that I eat dirty.
Exactly. I eat minimally processed foods and I'm also a vegan. My weight is where I want it (I'd like to lose 10 lbs, but that is for athletics.)
I don't think it is so much clean vs. whatever..but whenever I've read about one diet or fitness approach, it is always in opposition to something else. So, Atkins vs. Ornish Weight Watchers vs. NutriSystem Free weights vs. cardio.0 -
But I would ask from an health and nutritional point is a clean eating diet inferior to other diets? and if so why?
No it's fine. And no one is saying clean eating is bad. Just the amount of clean eaters telling people who choose to eat some candy or ice cream are doing it wrong is what is annoying. Especially when a lot of new comers get these responses of eliminating some food groups. Restrictions on a diet can help some people, but shouldn't be the first thing recommended, especially with the threat of sugar being evil.
In reality even those clean eaters adhere to a similar diet as the non clean eaters (80-20). This is why there's friction between these two groups a lot of the time.
Based on the fact that a majority of members on MFP are calorie counting and eating in moderation or IIFYM, I'm not sure how the first message newbies get is anything other than the MFP official guidelines.
I don't know if I agree agree with this. I see plenty of forums with either newcomer or those having problems losing weight where members come in and say "eat clean" or "give up [insert food group]" all the time. And then I see members coming in and saying eat the same foods you already do but eat at a reasonable deficit. Then the argument ensues and the newbie gets confused. And for those having problems losing weight without a medical condition it's often a matter of underestimating intake and overestimating calorie burn.0 -
Now it's just a "you're all mean" thread. No further rational discussion can take place. Abandon ship.
I don't think this thread was designed for rational discussion!
Well if it isn't the pot calling the kettle black!0 -
*rolls eyes*
Here we go again . . .0 -
I eat like that because of my eating plan, I call it my eating plan. The shakes I drink are definitely processed to the nth degree though, but they help me get enough protein.What is if I call my way of eating "The Cut Down On Processed Foods and Grains; Eat More Non-Starchy Vegetables, and Lean Protein Diet?" Is that acceptable? :happy: :laugh: :happy:0 -
I would call it eating a balanced diet. Why does it need a label?What is if I call my way of eating "The Cut Down On Processed Foods and Grains; Eat More Non-Starchy Vegetables, and Lean Protein Diet?" Is that acceptable? :happy: :laugh: :happy:
Because we label everything in life. a lot of people on these forums will be following the principles of IIFYM (label).
I eat a Low carb diet (label), or more accurately to understand what type of carbs it's a primal diet (label).
Anybody that has done any research on diets or has spent time on these forums will understand what strategy someone eats when they say I eat IIFYM, or paleo, or primal or clean or vegan or vegetarian - it keeps things simple.
We do it in all parts of our life.
Oh and by the way - balanced diet? as we all lead very different lives and have different nutritional needs - please can you explain what I would be eating on a balanced diet?
Why not just call it food? I don't label my food, other than to say, "breakfast," "lunch," "dinner," "dessert," or "snack."
Balance is definitely relative to lifestyle, just as "yummy" food or "gross" food is relative to taste buds.0 -
I don't hate what it's called but I could never bring myself to say "I eat clean". Adverbs end in 'ly" and so it she be "I eat cleanly".I love it when people get there knickers in a twist about what things are called!0 -
I eat like that because of my eating plan, I call it my eating plan. The shakes I drink are definitely processed to the nth degree though, but they help me get enough protein.What is if I call my way of eating "The Cut Down On Processed Foods and Grains; Eat More Non-Starchy Vegetables, and Lean Protein Diet?" Is that acceptable? :happy: :laugh: :happy:
^^ And you just threw a label on what you call it!0 -
I've never thought that someone saying they eat clean means they think that I eat dirty.
Interesting, because the implication that that's what they are saying is what bothers me about it, and makes me think it's kind of rude. I think it's because it's a label. If someone says "oh, I try to eat healthy" or "I'm focusing more on eating healthy than I was," I see that as talking about their focus on their own diet, on priorities on a continuum. It doesn't seem to break the world down into self-proclaimed "healthy eaters" and everyone else, who eat taco bell and brownies 24-7. When someone claims the label "clean eater," I definitely read that as them breaking the world into clean eaters and non-clean-eaters (who are here weirdly stereotyped as people who just want to eat taco bell and brownies 24-7, sometimes). It's an us and them thing and a statement about people who reject the label as not eating as well that bothers me. Unlike this, someone who is a vegetarian need not assume that someone who isn't eats worse (although they may have moral objections) and someone who eats low-carb often just sees it as something that works for them, but the clean eater thing is a claim of superiority vs. others. Ironically, often people who eat just about the same, but reject labels or prefer other labels. I'm not saying all "clean eaters" do this, but some do and more significantly it's implicit in the claim.
Note: this is particularly the case because "clean eating" has no real defined meaning. So if someone tells me they are eating clean or a clean eater, I don't know how they are actually eating, what they aren't eating, etc. I just know they think their food choices are cleaner than those of the uninitiated, even though plenty of people who don't use special "clean eating" recipes or the like also don't eat only fast food and sweets (which can be made from whole foods, obviously, and thus be as unprocessed as anything else, except for those who think all sugar and flour is unclean, which again gets to the confusion inherent in the term).0 -
So I wonder, is there a label that won't get everyone worked up? If I choose to eat mostly whole foods, and try to minimize the amount of processed foods I eat, is there a term I can use to describe my diet without pissing everyone off? And what if I don't do it 100% of the time, but just try to adhere to it as a lifestyle choice? Can I still use this label (yet to be coined) to describe my preferred way of eating? Why don't the oracles on this thread come up with one, and then we can all go on our merry way.
Why do you need a label? I guess that's the bit I don't understand. If someone asks me how I eat, I say I try to eat a healthy diet, lots of vegetables, or some such. Or maybe "I'm trying to get back to cooking more." Honestly, maybe it's again the environment point, but if I said "I eat clean, mostly," I think that would raise more questions than it answers, since everyone has different ideas about what it means.
(But if I knew you and you said "I eat clean" to me I wouldn't be snide or anything, of course. I just would have no clue what you really meant. Now, I don't know what you mean by "I eat healthy" either, of course, but it's less in your face from my perspective, since it's more focused on overall diet vs. specific items.)
I actually don't need a label. And I pretty much never talk about how I eat, except to my daughter who likes to eat this way too. I just jumped into this thread because I think it's pretty funny that people get so butthurt about people using the term "clean eating", as if it's some kind of personal affront to them.0 -
I don't eat completely 'clean' but I eat healthy. But now I just labeled what I do and will probably have to quantify what "healthy" means to me.0
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I don't eat completely 'clean' but I eat healthy. But now I just labeled what I do and will probably have to quantify what "healthy" means to me.
Yup, and you will be deemed to be criticizing as unhealthy all those who eat anything that's not in your diet. Enjoy that. :laugh:0 -
That gets more real as you age, and your chance of having a friend or family member with cancer multiplies, not that it can't happen anytime.I'm not entirely unsympathetic to your point here. I think IIFYM is as close as you can find because, frankly we are eating much "cleaner" than the SAD, though the clean eating enthusiasts' fear of cancer tends take it extremes. Well, that and I love the Windex gifs so there's that . . .0 -
But I would ask from an health and nutritional point is a clean eating diet inferior to other diets? and if so why?
No it's fine. And no one is saying clean eating is bad. Just the amount of clean eaters telling people who choose to eat some candy or ice cream are doing it wrong is what is annoying. Especially when a lot of new comers get these responses of eliminating some food groups. Restrictions on a diet can help some people, but shouldn't be the first thing recommended, especially with the threat of sugar being evil.
In reality even those clean eaters adhere to a similar diet as the non clean eaters (80-20). This is why there's friction between these two groups a lot of the time.
Based on the fact that a majority of members on MFP are calorie counting and eating in moderation or IIFYM, I'm not sure how the first message newbies get is anything other than the MFP official guidelines.
I don't know if I agree agree with this. I see plenty of forums with either newcomer or those having problems losing weight where members come in and say "eat clean" or "give up [insert food group]" all the time. And then I see members coming in and saying eat the same foods you already do but eat at a reasonable deficit. Then the argument ensues and the newbie gets confused. And for those having problems losing weight without a medical condition it's often a matter of underestimating intake and overestimating calorie burn.
QFT
I am just glad that I ran across SideSteel as soon as I found the forums and send him a friend request. (One of the few FRs that I've sent) I honestly believed the mythical hokey that you had to give up certain nutrient subsets in order to lose weight. I never would have made it more than a month if I had continued with that line of thinking. Once I understood macronutrients and what a calorie actually is, it made it *very* easy to drop 80 pounds over the course of a year.0 -
I think that sometimes any of us may be a little too touchy.
Sometimes, other people don't mean anything bad about us, and still we feel insulted.
This is a thing that's completely uncorrelated with dieting and food. It's just a thing that I noticed a lot... people that get offended by remarks (not mine) that I find completely harmless.
Also, I notice that if I fear for whatever reason to be judged, I usually end feeling that someone judged me... while if I'm completely confident in what I'm doing... that won't happen.
This may well be in conflict with my last post (mea culpa), but it's really smart and insightful, and it is a human thing.0 -
You do realize that by and large the only people who talk about dirty food are those who are against clean eating right? I've never heard any clean eater talk about food being dirty; most don't get close to even judging other people's food choices. Most of the clean eaters I know or those like me who subscribe to the idea of clean eating don't think of clean as being a moral judgment or of other foods are dirty. Usually clean is used in these contexts to mean not possessing things that individual doesn't want to put in their body - therefore, the opposite to clean isn't dirty, it's things they just don't want to put in their body. At worst the opposite of clean eating is eating 'undesirable' things, but since it's more or less defined individually, I hardly see how that's prblematic. Food is always desriable or undesirable on an individual basis - just because I hate celery because it tastes icky to me, and therefore its undesirable and I don't want to eat it, does that somehow affect you and your relationship with celery? If it does, that's a problem with you, not with me.
People all have different views on what is healthy or unhealthy, and what they want to put in their body. If someone wants to chose not to put animal products, or processed food, or pesticides, or GMOs into their body, why do you care? Its their personal food choices, and you shouldn't get to judge them for it, even if what you're judging is how they describe their eating style.
I think it's argumentative to try and say that labelling something clean MUST mean that anything else is dirty, and that it's ridiculous to judge a way of eating on nothing more than its name. Naming conventions aren't about being perfectly descriptive, they're about being catchy. If you have to get all philosophical to find a good argument against a person choosing to eat clean, I think you're really reaching. That, and clean's a perfectly acceptable way of describing most of these food plans. They're based largely on eliminating undesirable (defined by each individual or individual plan) elements from our food and diet - that's one meaning of clean.
It can't be forgotten that words have many meanings or slightly different meanings depending on context. Yes, in some contexts clean and dirty have moral connotations; in others, they really really don't. Reading those kinds of things into this context is quite beside the point and actually rather inappropriate. I'd say that to anyone on either side of the debate, but honestly, I've only ever seen it from clean eating bashers.
Well said.0 -
You do realize that by and large the only people who talk about dirty food are those who are against clean eating right? I've never heard any clean eater talk about food being dirty; most don't get close to even judging other people's food choices. Most of the clean eaters I know or those like me who subscribe to the idea of clean eating don't think of clean as being a moral judgment or of other foods are dirty. Usually clean is used in these contexts to mean not possessing things that individual doesn't want to put in their body - therefore, the opposite to clean isn't dirty, it's things they just don't want to put in their body. At worst the opposite of clean eating is eating 'undesirable' things, but since it's more or less defined individually, I hardly see how that's prblematic. Food is always desriable or undesirable on an individual basis - just because I hate celery because it tastes icky to me, and therefore its undesirable and I don't want to eat it, does that somehow affect you and your relationship with celery? If it does, that's a problem with you, not with me.
People all have different views on what is healthy or unhealthy, and what they want to put in their body. If someone wants to chose not to put animal products, or processed food, or pesticides, or GMOs into their body, why do you care? Its their personal food choices, and you shouldn't get to judge them for it, even if what you're judging is how they describe their eating style.
I think it's argumentative to try and say that labelling something clean MUST mean that anything else is dirty, and that it's ridiculous to judge a way of eating on nothing more than its name. Naming conventions aren't about being perfectly descriptive, they're about being catchy. If you have to get all philosophical to find a good argument against a person choosing to eat clean, I think you're really reaching. That, and clean's a perfectly acceptable way of describing most of these food plans. They're based largely on eliminating undesirable (defined by each individual or individual plan) elements from our food and diet - that's one meaning of clean.
It can't be forgotten that words have many meanings or slightly different meanings depending on context. Yes, in some contexts clean and dirty have moral connotations; in others, they really really don't. Reading those kinds of things into this context is quite beside the point and actually rather inappropriate. I'd say that to anyone on either side of the debate, but honestly, I've only ever seen it from clean eating bashers.
Well said.
I'll second that.0 -
If it wasn't for my fake, processed faux dessert with sucrose, I would be eating sugar, getting the calories and losing less weight, because I have to have my dessert one way or the other. I also have some fake faux processed snacks I like when I have a craving for chocolate, otherwise, I would eat chocolate, which is more fat and more calories. This is what I do...it is just the way it is, and I don't care who likes it or not.I am just glad that I ran across SideSteel as soon as I found the forums and send him a friend request. (One of the few FRs that I've sent) I honestly believed the mythical hokey that you had to give up certain nutrient subsets in order to lose weight. I never would have made it more than a month if I had continued with that line of thinking. Once I understood macronutrients and what a calorie actually is, it made it *very* easy to drop 80 pounds over the course of a year.0 -
Love that the OP, from what I gathered, was talking about clean eating being harmful to discourse about food. Not that generalizing these clean-eaters and bashing on them collectively promotes positive discourse...
^^^ This!
Thanks to the OP for what this was supposed to be about...0 -
Now it's just a "you're all mean" thread. No further rational discussion can take place. Abandon ship.
I don't think this thread was designed for rational discussion!
Well if it isn't the pot calling the kettle black!
Yes, I have a trained eye for this sort of thing - being one myself.
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That gets more real as you age, and your chance of having a friend or family member with cancer multiplies, not that it can't happen anytime.I'm not entirely unsympathetic to your point here. I think IIFYM is as close as you can find because, frankly we are eating much "cleaner" than the SAD, though the clean eating enthusiasts' fear of cancer tends take it extremes. Well, that and I love the Windex gifs so there's that . . .
The cancer links are overstated on many websites The links that seem to rise to the level of causation are very specific and have to do with things like not getting sufficient fiber and "processed" meats. The cancer that has arisen in my own family, for example, has either been directly linked to genetics, or in one case was baffling because she ate about as "clean" as a human being can and was privy to all the research. There has to be a middle ground between BSC paranoia and a complete lack of concern.0 -
I don't hate what it's called but I could never bring myself to say "I eat clean". Adverbs end in 'ly" and so it she be "I eat cleanly".I love it when people get there knickers in a twist about what things are called!
Right? Someone finally pointed this out!0 -
I actually don't need a label. And I pretty much never talk about how I eat, except to my daughter who likes to eat this way too. I just jumped into this thread because I think it's pretty funny that people get so butthurt about people using the term "clean eating", as if it's some kind of personal affront to them.
I wouldn't say butthurt, it just seems self-righteous, and self-righteousness bugs me (which may be non-self-aware, admittedly). Also, I think the discussion of labeling, the labels chosen, etc., is interesting, as is the discussion about people's attitudes toward food and our cultural tendency to link food to morals, all of which seem implicated by the discussion and the original post.
People do express disgust about food in a way that is pretty extreme and which is related to disgust at the people who eat those foods, however, so that people get butthurt on occasion shouldn't seem weird. In the US there are definitely class issues involved, for example. And more moderately, it just seems offensive to say that what someone else is eating is disgusting--it makes them feel that they are being insulted (for eating something disgusting) even if that's not intended.
Also, of course, this topic is related to the broader claim about "processed food" or sugar or wheat or whatever the current cuprit is being responsible for people getting fat--the idea that if you don't eat clean you are addicted or some such.0
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