Can overtraining + skipping leg day increase my bench press?

jofjltncb6

This theory could possibly get you the 'team no-legs-day' broscientist of the year award.
On a side note Id hypothesize that by increasing your training frequency, youre not necessarily automatically overtraining (+ this has been a short term experiment).

Not sure how this is broscience.

You are missing the part about it being repeatable.

No one else is going to skip leg day to see if your hypothesis is true.

My hypothesis was, "Can overtraining + skipping leg day increase my bench press?"

Will it work for everyone? My answer is "I don't really care." A lot of things do not work for everyone. Especially when you're talking about breaking through a plateau. There are very few guarantees in lifting/training, which is why there is so much broscience out there. I mean, if there were One True Path to strength or mass gains, it would be very easy to prove, everyone would simply do that one thing, and there would be no such thing as broscience.

If anyone else cares enough they are welcome to try, assuming they survive skipping leg day, that is.

But I think the data itself is interesting, and there's only one way that kind of data gets out there. It certainly doesn't come from people who are too afraid to skip leg day.

FIFY

Cortelli

But seriously, OP...you should never *ever* under any circumstances skip leg day or consider any approach where it could be interpreted as skipping leg day...(even if you have a lower/upper body imbalance)...because you never *ever* skip leg day...because skipping leg day is what you never *ever* do...and if you think of any ideas that would involve skipping leg day you should reconsider those ideas because you never *ever* skip leg day. Understand?






PS: Never *ever* skip leg day.

Wait, wait, wait - no one in this threasd is seriously considering skipping leg day, right? I mean, you can't skip leg day. Obviously.

jofjltncb6

But seriously, OP...you should never *ever* under any circumstances skip leg day or consider any approach where it could be interpreted as skipping leg day...(even if you have a lower/upper body imbalance)...because you never *ever* skip leg day...because skipping leg day is what you never *ever* do...and if you think of any ideas that would involve skipping leg day you should reconsider those ideas because you never *ever* skip leg day. Understand?





PS: Never *ever* skip leg day.

Wait, wait, wait - no one in this threasd is seriously considering skipping leg day, right? I mean, you can't skip leg day. Obviously.

I would certainly hope not. Surely no one would ever do that. (That's probably covered in the Community Guidelines (all hail) as a strikable offense.)


If there was such a thing as the 10 bro commandments, never *ever* skipping leg day would be commandments 1-7...


...at least.





...because never *ever* skip leg day.

astronomicals

i think the ebb and flow is self regulated when you train properly.... you'll deload on leg lifts and your upper body stuff will advance... theres always some give and take... I think you lose everyone attention when you made it sound like "cease and increase dramatically"

whitebalance

There is nothing more comical than seeing a guy who is super huge on top but has spindly legs.

OMG THIGH GAP!!!

OP, I find your graph pretty but not very useful because all it shows is a continuous line of "calculated 1RM," even when you weren't lifting at all post-surgery. It doesn't show your actual volume or tonnage lifted, so there's really nothing for us to correlate these numbers with except the interventions you've identified with words at various points you believe are most significant. It would be interesting to see where the deloads are. My hunch is that gains will correlate with deloads as JoRocka pointed out... In which case, overtraining is exactly what you wouldn't want to do, right?

Some would argue that overtraining is what is responsible for the success that one experiences after a deload...that a deload without some level of overtraining wouldn't be as effective.

Seems valid. I guess I just over-react to the word.

jofjltncb6

There is nothing more comical than seeing a guy who is super huge on top but has spindly legs.

OMG THIGH GAP!!!

OP, I find your graph pretty but not very useful because all it shows is a continuous line of "calculated 1RM," even when you weren't lifting at all post-surgery. It doesn't show your actual volume or tonnage lifted, so there's really nothing for us to correlate these numbers with except the interventions you've identified with words at various points you believe are most significant. It would be interesting to see where the deloads are. My hunch is that gains will correlate with deloads as JoRocka pointed out... In which case, overtraining is exactly what you wouldn't want to do, right?

Some would argue that overtraining is what is responsible for the success that one experiences after a deload...that a deload without some level of overtraining wouldn't be as effective.

Seems valid. I guess I just over-react to the word.

Nah, you seemed to be at an appropriate level of reaction...




...unlike some in this thread whose trigger words are "skip leg day".




Which, to be clear, is something you should never *ever* do.

whitebalance

As far as overtraining, I tried finding if the capacity for volume can be increased and didn't find much to support or refute this idea. I think "under-recovering" may be a more accurate description, although I am definitely challenging my CNS with this amount of volume, because it has effected my ability to sleep. (Which was one of the goals, to see if it will adapt.) I mean, this is how we make strength gains, by progressive overload. Same concept.

Thanks for this. Am I reading it correctly, that around day 146 you were doing something like 15-20 reps/set at around 50-60% of 1RM and now you're doing about 10 reps at about 70-75% of 1RM? I could be getting that completely wrong; I'm not real well versed on calculating 1RM. But if that's accurate... Have you considered doing fewer reps/set at a higher weight?

jason_adams

I like the data analysis. I like that you're trying to think outside the box. But you were also training outside a good box.
You're basing a lot of your decision making about your max when you weren't actually testing your max, or training for max type lifts.
Working out with reps in the 8-20 range will get you into shape, and will let you increase the weight used... in the 8-20 range.

Get down and dirty with heavy weights to increase your max. Benching for failure on rep 3-6 is just different that trying to hit failure on rep 20. Comfort with a heavy bar is one major factor. Muscle fiber recruitment is another. Training like a body builder won't give you success as a power lifter.

My max gains came from when I worked hard at near max lifts. Set schemes of 3x6, 3x3, 3x2 train your brain and your muscles for max lifts, I'm pretty sure there's a healthy amount of evidence supporting that type of structure.


And remember, correlation does not imply causation. Just sayin'. But, if you keep writing posts like this, I'll keep reading. Great work logging all your workouts and going the extra mile with the analysis. THAT IS how you'll come up with something new.

LiftAllThePizzas

Some people are more prone to add muscle in their lower body and vice versa.

i wish I could find the study about this. Anyone?

I vaguely remember it being something about a/b hormones or some crap.

Interesting, and it wouldn't surprise me at all. I'd also love to see it if you or anyone finds it.

I think a better way to execute your experiment would be to do 1/3 of your typical squat volume while maintaining the same intensity. Thus trying to keep your legs the same while advancing your upper body.

Why? If you want to find out if variables A and B have an antagonistic relationship, wouldn't you want to alter A as much as possible to get the largest effect on B?

If you alter A just a little bit and get nothing measurable then you haven't really proven that A and B are unrelated, because maybe you just didn't alter A enough for the result to be above the noise level, or maybe there is some play between them and it only happens when the magnitude crosses a threshold.

In reality, you had a long recovery and you keep switching programs.

I've been doing HST for a year with the recovery in the middle. How long should I stick with the same program with no progress before it's safe to assume a switch to something else is a likely cause of novel results?

There is so many variables its sick. I dunno if you're in a surplus or deficit. It matters.

I've been in both a deficit and a surplus at various times. You're right that a lot of those variables have gone many places over that time. But my bench press never *ever* increased between all the changes of all of those variables.

Are those really actual 1RMs or theoretical? That alone would blow this whole thing out of proportion. I ask this because your chart shows your 1RM being the same after a 4 month recovery. That maken NO sense and looks like absolute BS and poor record keeping.

Why would my bench go down so far if I was doing other similar/accessory things? It's not like I did nothing but leg day in the interim. I was doing incline bench, push ups, tris, etc in that time frame when I was not benching.

The numbers are calculated 1RMs with the exceptions of two events which are marked on the graph. Because there are several different methods of estimating 1RMs, I tested my own rep capacity at various weights to check how similar my real-world performance is to the curve I use for those calculations. I found that the curve I use is very consistent in predicting any RM from any actual performance. I realize that there is going to be some element of expectation affecting results, but there's no way a 30 lb increase would come out of nowhere as a result of a bad calculation. (Also, I went from "160 X 1 and getting stapled by 165" to 160 X 6 less than 6 weeks later.)

You say you were deloading on the last program, but, it may have been a poor program for your diet.

I'm up to double body weight squats. (Calc'd from 1.5BW @ 10 reps.) How did I get there on a poor program for my diet?

Perhaps you were ego lifting and the deloads werent enough to prevent the stall.

I'm not sure how or why someone would ego-lift sets of 15. Maybe I was basing my program on my actual capacity, and I just have a hard time building upper body mass/strength, and focusing my lifting on that area finally allowed me to make progress.

One thing is for sure, distribution of muscle gain is not even and linear. It certainly is a possibility that you could add a lot of mass to your legs without adding much to your arms.

I agree.

ETA:

increasing volume isnt overtraining, its increasing volume. Yes, you can adapt to that. What you probably cant adapt to is increasing volume while decreasing recovery time. You'll find that out down the road. Then you can have another surgery and another recovery phase and try another silly idea. haaa. i kid i kid.

Heh heh. I want to know what surgery would fix that. :laugh:

jofjltncb6

Some people are more prone to add muscle in their lower body and vice versa.

i wish I could find the study about this. Anyone?

I vaguely remember it being something about a/b hormones or some crap.

Interesting, and it wouldn't surprise me at all. I'd also love to see it if you or anyone finds it.

[snipped a lot of blah blah blah...]

All of that quoting and typing and you didn't even mention the most important part of this entire post...

...and that is...










...that you never *ever* skip leg day.

LiftAllThePizzas

As far as overtraining, I tried finding if the capacity for volume can be increased and didn't find much to support or refute this idea. I think "under-recovering" may be a more accurate description, although I am definitely challenging my CNS with this amount of volume, because it has effected my ability to sleep. (Which was one of the goals, to see if it will adapt.) I mean, this is how we make strength gains, by progressive overload. Same concept.

Thanks for this. Am I reading it correctly, that around day 146 you were doing something like 15-20 reps/set at around 50-60% of 1RM and now you're doing about 10 reps at about 70-75% of 1RM? I could be getting that completely wrong; I'm not real well versed on calculating 1RM. But if that's accurate... Have you considered doing fewer reps/set at a higher weight?

Yep. HST goes in cycles where you do sets of 15, then work your way down through rep ranges to 3/1/negatives. After the first two cycles I altered that to 20-8 reps, because the chance of injuries increases drastically in the lower rep ranges and my priority is adding mass (and avoiding injuries which at my age could easily become permanent) rather than pure strength gains. I've been able to continue increasing the weight used for each rep range, which is the metric I am using to determine whether or not I am making progress.

LiftAllThePizzas

...that you never *ever* skip leg day.

That too. Don't try this at home folks. Your legs might fall off or worse: you might become a gym meme.

delicious_cocktail

Regarding people being more prone to add muscle in their lower body, I am one of those unfortunates. It looks like I skip upper body day. By my legs have always been a little freakishly built. It's just genetic I think.

DopeItUp

Regarding people being more prone to add muscle in their lower body, I am one of those unfortunates. It looks like I skip upper body day. By my legs have always been a little freakishly built. It's just genetic I think.

WRONG

(have you seen those guns?)

delicious_cocktail

Regarding people being more prone to add muscle in their lower body, I am one of those unfortunates. It looks like I skip upper body day. By my legs have always been a little freakishly built. It's just genetic I think.

WRONG

(have you seen those guns?)

Smoke and mirrors.

If my upper body was half as developed as my lower body I could compete in figure competitions.

LiftAllThePizzas

I like the data analysis. I like that you're trying to think outside the box. But you were also training outside a good box.
You're basing a lot of your decision making about your max when you weren't actually testing your max, or training for max type lifts.
Working out with reps in the 8-20 range will get you into shape, and will let you increase the weight used... in the 8-20 range.

Thanks. And yep, I'm not specifically counting on my actual 1RM being the precise number on the curve, but using it as a reference point. This allows me to compare my performance scaled to the different rep ranges I work with. (As well as being necessary to setting up a cycle with accurate 'progressive' lifting.)

jason_adams

I'm not specifically counting on my actual 1RM being the precise number on the curve, but using it as a reference point. This allows me to compare my performance scaled to the different rep ranges I work with. (As well as being necessary to setting up a cycle with accurate 'progressive' lifting.)

I don't think this is helping you as much as you'd like it to - the theory or the calculations or both seem to be flawed.
Bottom line - you're saying your max bench isn't getting better, but you're not actually *TRYING* to get it better. You're doing other exercises for other training purposes, and then looking to link it back to a max bench through an algorithm. You're training for marathons and trying to do math to show how your 100m sprint time is improving. All you need to do to establish your progressive lifting is track if you're doing more reps or using more weight that you were before. I understand the idea of tracking it all through the same metric, and why you would want to but I don't think it's a valid approach. I'd stick to a simpler metric, specific to the segment of your lifting pattern. When you're doing X rep sets, compare it to other X rep sets. Are you using more or less weight. What's your perceived intensity. Then, be aware that if you train for a very different rep scheme for a while (y), when you come back to x, you will likely have lost ground on your X rep sets. You won't start from where you left off. Your START should be better than your PREVIOUS START, and your END should be better than your PREVIOUS END. That's how you'll track your progression.

I used to cycle 2 weeks of heavy lifting with 2 weeks of circuit training. After 2 weeks of circuit training, I was using more weight than I was at the start of that 2 week period. But when I switched back to lifting heavy, I did NOT expecting to be lifting heavier than I did at the END of my previous heavy period. I expected my current start to be heavier than my previous start, and my end to be higher than my previous end.

Think of each cycle as a flight of stairs.
Stair A: First time through you go from 1-5 (progression)
Stair B: Different stair (B) and you go 1-3 (progression).
Stair A: Back here, you go 3-6. This is still progress! Both within and across Stair A segments!
Stair B: Here again ,but now you go 2-4 .

LifterDave

Have you considered that your training style, diet and recovery suck. You have really not been into lifting for all that long and may benefit by just returning to a beginning type of program instead of HST. With your graphs and all, you really seem to be over thinking this when really you should just keep it simple. Maybe do Starting Strength or SL 5x5 and ensure you are eating enough and resting enough. You are not a special little snow flake. These programs work for anyone who is not truly injured to a point of keeping them from doing each lift.

elbaldwin0525

So your bench is less than 200 but your squat almost 400lbs? Video or it didnt happen

Shawshankcan

Wait, you want to take out ALL back work and just bench? You don't know how the bench actually works, nor do you understand how opposing muscles work and the need for them to be balanced.

Did I miss the part where I said I was only going to do bench presses and nothing else for the rest of my life?

First post saying you were taking out back stuff. I didn't say burners for a life time either though.

SuperC_85

Skip leg day??

jofjltncb6

Skip leg day??

No.

Never *ever* skip leg day...under any circumstances for any reason for any period of time...ever.

LolBroScience

IMO increase frequency of bench

jason_adams

Skip leg day??

No.

Never *ever* skip leg day...under any circumstances for any reason for any period of time...ever.

Can one defer leg day?

jofjltncb6

Skip leg day??

No.

Never *ever* skip leg day...under any circumstances for any reason for any period of time...ever.

Can one defer leg day?

Good question.

Make a new forum post on it and see how the brociety responds.

(I suspect the answer will be "no"...because any day that isn't leg day is a day wasted...because leg day.)

No_Finish_Line

his conclusion might involve a little bit of broscience but trying something new and exploring the results is not.

Thinking he would come in here and get anything more then 'you shouldn't skip leg day' was his biggest fail

A- What was my conclusion?

2- You have a strange definition of failure.

D- Who said I expected anything more?

why do people snip at you when your trying to support them lol.

maybe your trolling?

i assume your conclusion was that you skipped leg day(s) and this helped increase your bench press, or at least thats the direction you headed.

If you didn't expect anything more then why did you post? you just wanted to be reminded not to skip leg day?

DopeItUp

So your bench is less than 200 but your squat almost 400lbs? Video or it didnt happen

He's posted a couple videos before. Legit depth and everything. I am very jealous of his squat.

LiftAllThePizzas

I don't think this is helping you as much as you'd like it to - the theory or the calculations or both seem to be flawed.

In what way? They are consistent with each other, one predicts the other, so where is the 'error' that you think is evidence of a flaw?

As far as counting between cycles and when I repeat a rep range, that's what I've been doing. But additionally I also use the curve because it is consistent with my results. For example, below is the last 3 weeks of bench presses I've done (doing AMRAP) compared to the curve I use, with a 193 1RM as the reference point for the curve.

Now I realize that these equations are not accurate to 27 significant digits but they don't need to be. They also aren't equally applicable to everyone (which is why there are multiple equations) but as you can see, for my lifts they are as accurate as the 5 pound increments my barbell is capable of. This does allow me to accurately predict my 8RM from doing a set of 15, and vice versa. So when I make progress, I can see it initially in the "calculated 1rm" and then later confirm it when I cycle around to the same rep range.

That is, it has been demonstrated/observed on multiple occasions that when my 15RM changes, my 8RM changes by a predictable amount, and vice versa. My 15RM is 84% of my 8RM and my 8RM is 119% of my 15RM. It's not a guess or just taking some random equation off the internet without having any sense of its applicability or accuracy. I've tested it multiple times. It isn't "theory" it's observed reality.

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[/img]

No_Finish_Line

it would be more interesting if you didn't have the long break immediately before the 'experiment'.

I see that your squat went up basically instantly after that. it just seems to throw a curve ball in there.

I guess a way of testing wether or not the deletion of the leg exercises had anything to do with it would be to do the extra chest work and still do your regular leg routines. ideally i guess you'd want to take a significant break before hand, but even then conditions wont really be the same.

LiftAllThePizzas

Have you considered that your training style, diet and recovery suck.

Yes, that's totally why my squats progressed so well, because my training style, diet, and recovery suck.

You have really not been into lifting for all that long and may benefit by just returning to a beginning type of program instead of HST. With your graphs and all, you really seem to be over thinking this when really you should just keep it simple. Maybe do Starting Strength or SL 5x5 and ensure you are eating enough and resting enough. You are not a special little snow flake. These programs work for anyone who is not truly injured to a point of keeping them from doing each lift.

My goal is not raw strength. Why would I want to do a beginner strength program and risk injury for no benefit, when the thing I'm doing is getting exactly the results I want and expect?

When did I say I was a special snowflake? I said my upper/lower body are not of ordinary proportions, not that my body magically defies the laws of physics. Are you going to tell me that I really can bench over 300 pounds and I've just been faking it? Or am I just imagining all the squatting I've been doing?