OA but not religious?

EvgeniZyntx

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I like you and we have been friends for a long time, but I really feel like you are trying to push this on her and insisting if she doesn't go she's ignorant. I know that's not what you are saying, but that's the way it is coming across. The reason there are a variety of treatments for mental health issues (eating disorders of all varieties included) is because not everyone responds to treatment in the same way. We are wired different. Some people need touchy feely, some people need spiritual, some people need tough love, some people need to be reminded that they are badass.

I can agree to being open to spirituality when it comes to the context of a the individual questioning the meaning of personal existence and attempting to define what their function or role in the world is. I do agree with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path, but it's about peace and empowerment. You make the changes to correct thinking/behaviors and produce peace. The OA 12 step program is about handing over control and letting someone else take the burden from you.

Funny enough, the limitations and ignorance that I was referring to are not those of people who aren't certain or disbelieve; I was referring to the limitations and ignorance created within religion and that come from buying someone else's idea of a god.

However, I DID quote this time, to make it painfully clear to whom I was responding, & that wasn't to the OP. A poster suggested Jesus/God (the judeochristian concept of god/faith/sprituality) was the solution. A respondent stated that obviously that had already been considered and that it was condescending for someone to imply that it hasn't.

My response was (intended to mean) that the rejection of a single approach to god needn't eliminate every possible concept or approach to spirituality.

And following all of that, the whole purpose - in my understanding - of the belief in a higher power associated with these programs is to get people to just 'drop the rock'. A lot of people take solace in the idea of handing the rock over to someone or something, rather than just dropping it on the spot.

I really could go on an on, but at the end of the day, I'm encouraging open-mindedness.

Thank you for this conversation, from both of you.
It enriches my day.

OP, there is little to be lost from going to a OA meeting and testing if it is for you or not. I say this as an strong agnostic comfortable with my beliefs.

AglaeaC

I've always had an idea of AA and the like that they are very much religious, but based on this very interesting thread I'd go and take a look for myself. As long as nobody is showing their particular world view down my throat I'd be good to go. It's hard enough as it is not to be able to put into words exactly how and what I feel about spirituality at this point, but like BinaryPulsar said it might be depending on the group how much emphasis is put on what. I'd be curious after this discussion.

EvgeniZyntx

I've always had an idea of AA and the like that they are very much religious, but based on this very interesting thread I'd go and take a look for myself. As long as nobody is showing their particular world view down my throat I'd be good to go. It's hard enough as it is not to be able to put into words exactly how and what I feel about spirituality at this point, but like BinaryPulsar said it might be depending on the group how much emphasis is put on what. I'd be curious after this discussion.

I took a friend to a daughters of alcoholics meeting twenty odd years ago, it did have a religious tone and if you focus on that alone, yes, it is likely not for someone that "feels something is being shoved down your throat". I felt uncomfortable with it given my world view and reserves but I also found it truly helped my friend. I know she felt it saved her life and helped her deal with a lot of things.

For me, it challenged my view on my own religious attitude - not so much my beliefs but my openness to the value of complex trust and structure and the creation of tradition.

It isn't for me, not ever (I've learned this about myself), but I value that it was there for a friend.
I also support the idea being expressed here of being open in mind to the idea of a community of trust and help, wherever you find it.

Flossie1981

I work for an organisation that delivers 12 step treatment to addicts and one of the things we encourage is that people focus on the similarities of the stories of others rather than the differences. Therfore you can identify with people who have had similar experiences.

cebreisch

I'm not what you would call an "outwardly religious person". Yes, I believe in God, but that's between me and Him.

I'd say, give it a try. There must be some merit to it since it's been around for so long. If you can try to focus more on the idea that "we're all here for the same reason - that we have addiction to food", then maybe there will be some tools they have you can use to help you move on.

I remember when I was taking an intensive Spanish class in college. There was a guy in the class I thought was a complete jerk. BUT we had the same goal: We both wanted an "A" in the class. There was another guy there who also wanted an "A" in the class - so the three of us teamed up and set forth to do so. And we did. Put aside the differences and look for things that make you the same - or seek the common goal - in this case it's weight loss.

MBrothers22

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I have no clue what you're rambling about but what about Buddhism? They don't believe in a higher power or a god. It's not a religion.

AglaeaC

I've always had an idea of AA and the like that they are very much religious, but based on this very interesting thread I'd go and take a look for myself. As long as nobody is showing their particular world view down my throat I'd be good to go. It's hard enough as it is not to be able to put into words exactly how and what I feel about spirituality at this point, but like BinaryPulsar said it might be depending on the group how much emphasis is put on what. I'd be curious after this discussion.

I took a friend to a daughters of alcoholics meeting twenty odd years ago, it did have a religious tone and if you focus on that alone, yes, it is likely not for someone that "feels something is being shoved down your throat". I felt uncomfortable with it given my world view and reserves but I also found it truly helped my friend. I know she felt it saved her life and helped her deal with a lot of things.

For me, it challenged my view on my own religious attitude - not so much my beliefs but my openness to the value of complex trust and structure and the creation of tradition.

It isn't for me, not ever (I've learned this about myself), but I value that it was there for a friend.
I also support the idea being expressed here of being open in mind to the idea of a community of trust and help, wherever you find it.

I have a problem with neither religion nor spirituality nor lack of both, but in this particular context it's a matter of showing vulnerability. If people around me were to sit on a high horse the way some (non-)religious people unfortunately do at times, I personally don't think I'd feel like opening up about my weaknesses at all.

But if the group of individuals were accepting other ways of viewing the world, regardless of the path the others have chosen, I'd be all for it; everyone would be on the same level and none "holier than thou". My point was that since it might be an aspect differing from group to group, based on this thread I'd go and see for myself whether the individuals there would be a fit or not. The meeting would then be more about the addiction itself and not so much about what one may or may not believe in.

UsedToBeHusky

I've always had an idea of AA and the like that they are very much religious, but based on this very interesting thread I'd go and take a look for myself. As long as nobody is showing their particular world view down my throat I'd be good to go. It's hard enough as it is not to be able to put into words exactly how and what I feel about spirituality at this point, but like BinaryPulsar said it might be depending on the group how much emphasis is put on what. I'd be curious after this discussion.

I took a friend to a daughters of alcoholics meeting twenty odd years ago, it did have a religious tone and if you focus on that alone, yes, it is likely not for someone that "feels something is being shoved down your throat". I felt uncomfortable with it given my world view and reserves but I also found it truly helped my friend. I know she felt it saved her life and helped her deal with a lot of things.

For me, it challenged my view on my own religious attitude - not so much my beliefs but my openness to the value of complex trust and structure and the creation of tradition.

It isn't for me, not ever (I've learned this about myself), but I value that it was there for a friend.
I also support the idea being expressed here of being open in mind to the idea of a community of trust and help, wherever you find it.

I have a problem with neither religion nor spirituality nor lack of both, but in this particular context it's a matter of showing vulnerability. If people around me were to sit on a high horse the way some (non-)religious people unfortunately do at times, I personally don't think I'd feel like opening up about my weaknesses at all.

But if the group of individuals were accepting other ways of viewing the world, regardless of the path the others have chosen, I'd be all for it; everyone would be on the same level and none "holier than thou". My point was that since it might be an aspect differing from group to group, based on this thread I'd go and see for myself whether the individuals there would be a fit or not. The meeting would then be more about the addiction itself and not so much about what one may or may not believe in.

The focus is on controlling compulsion through faith. You can have faith in anything. Even if you are putting that faith in yourself. Your higher power could just as easily be your own will power as anything else.

BinaryPulsar

I also just want to add that even though I found alanon somewhat helpful at a brief time in my life because it was a free support group that I was much younger at that time (it was over a decade ago), and I did decide that it wasn't for me and did not continue long term. The reason I gave it a shot was because my husband had such a great experience with alateen. He remained long term friends with the members and I share those friendships now as well. I like the anonymity. It feels safe to open up (when I was younger I needed that).

I also have a family member that goes to Coda meetings and it might help her, but sometimes I wonder if it fuels her dysfunction.

delicious_cocktail

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I have no clue what you're rambling about but what about Buddhism? They don't believe in a higher power or a god. It's not a religion.

Yes, your cluelessness was established when you didn't read the first sentence I wrote: "How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?"

Is that helpful for you?