What YOU should know about GLUTEN SENSITIVITY
Replies
-
Yes, and Doctors used to tell woman that cramps and other symptoms of periods, were in the ladies head. Something does not have to be scientifically PROVEN to be a real problem.
BTW I do not have gluten sensitivity. I just have common sense.
Asthma was also considered a psychological disorder until a few years ago when the inflammatory component was proven. Some doctors still take that approach when treating asthma though. Doctors are human; they do make mistakes. I have allergies (many, many, many), asthma, arthritis, lactose intolerance, Raynaud's, and according to one specialist IBS. I argued that I do not have IBS, that the symptoms were related to certain foods of which he said that those foods could trigger IBS. At any rate, I avoid those foods problem solved so I still think those foods are the problem and not IBS. I also don't have a diagnosed gluten sensitivity but see no reason why anything that is ingested including gluten couldn't cause a sensitivity or allergy.
ed. to include Raynaud's
I was diagnosed with asthma years ago and I never remember anyone telling me it was all in my head or a "psychological disorder." There are psychological factors in triggering it and its intensity, however, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2869336/
Do a bit of reading on the history of treating asthma. It was definitely treated as a psychological disorder and in fact some doctors are still hesitant to diagnose the problem as asthma due to the negative connotations. IIRC, asthma is listed in the DSM-III [http://www.dhs.state.or.us/spd/tools/cm/capstools/dsm_icd9_alpha05.pdf] and those suffering from asthma were long thought to be weak. I did a lot of reading and researching on asthma when first diagnosed. There definitely was a stigma attached to asthma although in recent years that has changed.
I don't know what doctors you are seeing but find new ones.0 -
Yes, and Doctors used to tell woman that cramps and other symptoms of periods, were in the ladies head. Something does not have to be scientifically PROVEN to be a real problem.
BTW I do not have gluten sensitivity. I just have common sense.
Asthma was also considered a psychological disorder until a few years ago when the inflammatory component was proven. Some doctors still take that approach when treating asthma though. Doctors are human; they do make mistakes. I have allergies (many, many, many), asthma, arthritis, lactose intolerance, Raynaud's, and according to one specialist IBS. I argued that I do not have IBS, that the symptoms were related to certain foods of which he said that those foods could trigger IBS. At any rate, I avoid those foods problem solved so I still think those foods are the problem and not IBS. I also don't have a diagnosed gluten sensitivity but see no reason why anything that is ingested including gluten couldn't cause a sensitivity or allergy.
ed. to include Raynaud's
I was diagnosed with asthma years ago and I never remember anyone telling me it was all in my head or a "psychological disorder." There are psychological factors in triggering it and its intensity, however, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2869336/
Do a bit of reading on the history of treating asthma. It was definitely treated as a psychological disorder and in fact some doctors are still hesitant to diagnose the problem as asthma due to the negative connotations. IIRC, asthma is listed in the DSM-III [http://www.dhs.state.or.us/spd/tools/cm/capstools/dsm_icd9_alpha05.pdf] and those suffering from asthma were long thought to be weak. I did a lot of reading and researching on asthma when first diagnosed. There definitely was a stigma attached to asthma although in recent years that has changed.
I don't know what doctors you are seeing but find new ones.
It seems she is saying from 'history' not that her doctor now thinks she doesn't have a medical issue. /shrug0 -
Yes, and Doctors used to tell woman that cramps and other symptoms of periods, were in the ladies head. Something does not have to be scientifically PROVEN to be a real problem.
BTW I do not have gluten sensitivity. I just have common sense.
Asthma was also considered a psychological disorder until a few years ago when the inflammatory component was proven. Some doctors still take that approach when treating asthma though. Doctors are human; they do make mistakes. I have allergies (many, many, many), asthma, arthritis, lactose intolerance, Raynaud's, and according to one specialist IBS. I argued that I do not have IBS, that the symptoms were related to certain foods of which he said that those foods could trigger IBS. At any rate, I avoid those foods problem solved so I still think those foods are the problem and not IBS. I also don't have a diagnosed gluten sensitivity but see no reason why anything that is ingested including gluten couldn't cause a sensitivity or allergy.
ed. to include Raynaud's
I was diagnosed with asthma years ago and I never remember anyone telling me it was all in my head or a "psychological disorder." There are psychological factors in triggering it and its intensity, however, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2869336/
Do a bit of reading on the history of treating asthma. It was definitely treated as a psychological disorder and in fact some doctors are still hesitant to diagnose the problem as asthma due to the negative connotations. IIRC, asthma is listed in the DSM-III [http://www.dhs.state.or.us/spd/tools/cm/capstools/dsm_icd9_alpha05.pdf] and those suffering from asthma were long thought to be weak. I did a lot of reading and researching on asthma when first diagnosed. There definitely was a stigma attached to asthma although in recent years that has changed.
I don't know what doctors you are seeing but find new ones.
It seems she is saying from 'history' not that her doctor now thinks she doesn't have a medical issue. /shrug
I was reacting to the bolded statement above. I'm 41 years old, have had asthma since I was born, damn near died a couple of times there, and have never run into this attitude.0 -
Yes, and Doctors used to tell woman that cramps and other symptoms of periods, were in the ladies head. Something does not have to be scientifically PROVEN to be a real problem.
BTW I do not have gluten sensitivity. I just have common sense.
Asthma was also considered a psychological disorder until a few years ago when the inflammatory component was proven. Some doctors still take that approach when treating asthma though. Doctors are human; they do make mistakes. I have allergies (many, many, many), asthma, arthritis, lactose intolerance, Raynaud's, and according to one specialist IBS. I argued that I do not have IBS, that the symptoms were related to certain foods of which he said that those foods could trigger IBS. At any rate, I avoid those foods problem solved so I still think those foods are the problem and not IBS. I also don't have a diagnosed gluten sensitivity but see no reason why anything that is ingested including gluten couldn't cause a sensitivity or allergy.
ed. to include Raynaud's
I was diagnosed with asthma years ago and I never remember anyone telling me it was all in my head or a "psychological disorder." There are psychological factors in triggering it and its intensity, however, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2869336/
Do a bit of reading on the history of treating asthma. It was definitely treated as a psychological disorder and in fact some doctors are still hesitant to diagnose the problem as asthma due to the negative connotations. IIRC, asthma is listed in the DSM-III [http://www.dhs.state.or.us/spd/tools/cm/capstools/dsm_icd9_alpha05.pdf] and those suffering from asthma were long thought to be weak. I did a lot of reading and researching on asthma when first diagnosed. There definitely was a stigma attached to asthma although in recent years that has changed.
I don't know what doctors you are seeing but find new ones.
It seems she is saying from 'history' not that her doctor now thinks she doesn't have a medical issue. /shrug
I was reacting to the bolded statement above. I'm 41 years old, have had asthma since I was born, damn near died a couple of times there, and have never run into this attitude.
Seems you have me researching all kinds of stuff! Thanks. My mom was born 1933, they told her it was all in her head and sent her home. Different era, different type of town...........maybe that was freak incident.
In my lifetime (53 yrs) I have never heard asthma referred to as anything but a serious medical issue that must be dealt with immediately0 -
Yes, and Doctors used to tell woman that cramps and other symptoms of periods, were in the ladies head. Something does not have to be scientifically PROVEN to be a real problem.
BTW I do not have gluten sensitivity. I just have common sense.
Asthma was also considered a psychological disorder until a few years ago when the inflammatory component was proven. Some doctors still take that approach when treating asthma though. Doctors are human; they do make mistakes. I have allergies (many, many, many), asthma, arthritis, lactose intolerance, Raynaud's, and according to one specialist IBS. I argued that I do not have IBS, that the symptoms were related to certain foods of which he said that those foods could trigger IBS. At any rate, I avoid those foods problem solved so I still think those foods are the problem and not IBS. I also don't have a diagnosed gluten sensitivity but see no reason why anything that is ingested including gluten couldn't cause a sensitivity or allergy.
ed. to include Raynaud's
I was diagnosed with asthma years ago and I never remember anyone telling me it was all in my head or a "psychological disorder." There are psychological factors in triggering it and its intensity, however, and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2869336/
Do a bit of reading on the history of treating asthma. It was definitely treated as a psychological disorder and in fact some doctors are still hesitant to diagnose the problem as asthma due to the negative connotations. IIRC, asthma is listed in the DSM-III [http://www.dhs.state.or.us/spd/tools/cm/capstools/dsm_icd9_alpha05.pdf] and those suffering from asthma were long thought to be weak. I did a lot of reading and researching on asthma when first diagnosed. There definitely was a stigma attached to asthma although in recent years that has changed.
I don't know what doctors you are seeing but find new ones.
It seems she is saying from 'history' not that her doctor now thinks she doesn't have a medical issue. /shrug
I was reacting to the bolded statement above. I'm 41 years old, have had asthma since I was born, damn near died a couple of times there, and have never run into this attitude.
Seems you have me researching all kinds of stuff! Thanks. My mom was born 1933, they told her it was all in her head and sent her home. Different era, different type of town...........maybe that was freak incident.
In my lifetime (53 yrs) I have never heard asthma referred to as anything but a serious medical issue that must be dealt with immediately
Indeed, this thread has definitely been interesting!0 -
I'm a nutritionist by trade (B.Appl.Sc.) but have been working in medical research for the past 12 years, across nutrition, cancer, genetics and mental health. There seems to be lot of misunderstanding around this. Gluten in itself is not ‘bad’ for you, but some people’s bodies just don’t cope with it well, as some don’t cope with alcohol, fruit or dairy.
1. Coeliac disease is an allergic reaction to gluten which is a protein (99% of allergies are related to a specific protein). Coeliacs usually do not feel the effects immediately, but the bowel lining is being seriously damaged which can lead to chronic inflammation, nutritional deficiency (damage prevents absorption of vitamins and minerals), and in the long term, gastrointestinal cancers.
2. Gluten intolerance is not an allergic reaction: people lack the enzyme necessary to break down gluten, just like lactose intolerance where people cannot digest dairy products. Not dangerous, just very unpleasant with symptoms like fatigue, bone or joint pain, bloating, stomach pains, and terrible gas!0 -
well played, doesn't change the fact science supports my argument more than it does yours
What was my argument?0 -
well played, doesn't change the fact science supports my argument more than it does yours
What was my argument?
judging by the tone in your posts you were trying to counter mine0 -
judging by the tone in your posts you were trying to counter mine
That people with specialized food needs, medically legit or not, are PITA customers? No, I know that's true. I take care to be nice about it and tip well, but yep, we're PITAS.0 -
71 to go.
Don't mind me. Please, everyone, continue with your ongoing discussion of this topic. Surely there's some point that hasn't been covered yet. If not, then please start at the beginning.
Just 71 to go.
Thanks.0 -
judging by the tone in your posts you were trying to counter mine
That people with specialized food needs, medically legit or not, are PITA customers? No, I know that's true. I take care to be nice about it and tip well, but yep, we're PITAS.
seems like you get it, except in this case said medical need is fake more or less and an unnecessary one at that
i remember a local restaurant said they will not honor any requests to prepare any gluten free meals, i swear the gluten free crowd took it quite personally and acted as if the owner of the restaurant was committing a crime against them but in the end common sense prevailed and their voices were quickly silenced by those that agreed with the decision
the reason for not honoring any gluten free requests was simple, demand is simply not there to justify it, its not worth the time or the money to purchase ingredients necessary for gluten free meals (in this case artisan pizzas) and with the nature of the oven being used (brick wood fire oven built in naples and delivered to iowa) it wasn't worth the maintenance required to ensure that pizzas could be made gluten free and ensuring no cross contamination
there is a difference between preparing a gluten free meal and being nice about it than to demean people in the service industry just because you believe you have a medical need that some will say is false to put it lightly
being a PITA isn't about making the gluten free meals, its about how one behaves and i can tell you from years being spent in asia and australia its an american idea to demean people in the service industry, nothing worse than american customers and to make matters worse include someone who alleges to be gluten free and you have a powder keg waiting to explode
all in all i think you somewhat understand where i'm coming from, i don't know whether you agree with me but at least you can understand, whether you relate to it is an entirely different matter
and if you are nice about it then that puts you in the minority0 -
seems like you get it, except in this case said medical need is fake more or less and an unnecessary one at that
i remember a local restaurant said they will not honor any requests to prepare any gluten free meals, i swear the gluten free crowd took it quite personally and acted as if the owner of the restaurant was committing a crime against them but in the end common sense prevailed and their voices were quickly silenced by those that agreed with the decision
the reason for not honoring any gluten free requests was simple, demand is simply not there to justify it, its not worth the time or the money to purchase ingredients necessary for gluten free meals (in this case artisan pizzas) and with the nature of the oven being used (brick wood fire oven built in naples and delivered to iowa) it wasn't worth the maintenance required to ensure that pizzas could be made gluten free and ensuring no cross contamination
there is a difference between preparing a gluten free meal and being nice about it than to demean people in the service industry just because you believe you have a medical need that some will say is false to put it lightly
being a PITA isn't about making the gluten free meals, its about how one behaves and i can tell you from years being spent in asia and australia its an american idea to demean people in the service industry, nothing worse than american customers and to make matters worse include someone who alleges to be gluten free and you have a powder keg waiting to explode
all in all i think you somewhat understand where i'm coming from, i don't know whether you agree with me but at least you can understand, whether you relate to it is an entirely different matter
and if you are nice about it then that puts you in the minority
I've been wanting to avoid responding to you, because I don't feel most of your posts have been constructive. However, I wanted to comment a little on this response, and voice a point that keeps coming back into my head every time I read this thread.
In my opinion, I think it's unreasonable to expect a restaurant that specializes in wheat/bread based foods (pizza place, bakery, etc) to offer gluten-free, and consider those that do to simply be "icing on the cake" (and even then, only for those who can tolerate small amounts of gluten). These types of restaurants can't make an entirely gluten-free option if they make their gluten-containing products in the same kitchen -- cross-contamination is pretty much guaranteed, just from the flour that gets kicked into the air.
Places that don't, however, shouldn't have an issue with it, within reason. There's a difference between asking if the home fries are dusted in flour, or if you can get them sans flour, and demanding that the french fries be fried in a dedicated fryer because the usual fryer is also used to fry breaded foods. The former is reasonable, the latter is not.
You mentioned that you're a chef and that you don't actually talk to the customers. As such, did it ever occur to you that you're noticing the belligerent ones, because they're the ones that are catching your attention, probably by raising their voice? I'm willing to bet that for every person like that that has passed through your restaurant, there are three others that simply ordered the steak and steamed broccoli, salad without cheese, or other item that complies with their chosen way of eating (gluten free, vegan, or otherwise), as well as dozens more who have simply quietly passed by your restaurant entirely, because they didn't want to deal with a restaurant that didn't have an allergen menu (gluten free or otherwise) and didn't want to deal with the mutual hassle of having to ask a hundred questions and modify a bunch of the orders.
I think it's also worthwhile to keep in mind that not all reactions (including allergic ones) are instantaneous. So while you may be able to secretly keep/put in a certain ingredient (flour, peanuts, milk, or anything else that the person asked to keep out) and not see their physiological reaction, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Even an allergy (histamine reaction) can take up to two hours to show symptoms. This means they'll likely be gone long before you ever see the effects of them ingesting something their body can't handle.
Unfortunately, there are belligerent *kitten* in every group. I used to work retail and tech support. I didn't even bother counting the number of times I or my coworkers were verbally abused by someone for one reason or another. We'd been accused of being racist, liars, thieves, you name it (and for nothing more than simply doing our job). It wasn't unheard of to have to have the manager or security physically kick the person out (or call the cops), in some cases because they escalate beyond verbal and actually get violent. Being an *kitten* isn't isolated to just certain groups of people, and painting them all with the same brush because of the actions of a few is a unwarranted and unreasonable as those few's behavior toward you and your coworkers.
One of my favorite examples of this is in this article -- http://positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service/ . A customer of Southwest airlines would always fly Southwest and would always complain about something. The CEO ultimately replied with a nice version of "don't let the door hit you on the way out."0 -
in0
-
Seems you have me researching all kinds of stuff! Thanks. My mom was born 1933, they told her it was all in her head and sent her home. Different era, different type of town...........maybe that was freak incident.
In my lifetime (53 yrs) I have never heard asthma referred to as anything but a serious medical issue that must be dealt with immediately
For what it's worth, I was misdiagnosed with bronchitis for the better part of 13 years before finally diagnosed with asthma. Between that and the number of times I've seen people have to fight to get the tests for various disorders (including, but not limited to Celiac, PCOS, IBS, and a host of neurological and mental disorders), only to have the doctors tell them it's all in their head, or they couldn't possibly have that, or whatever, and the number of times I've seen people get misdiagnosed for things, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more doctors that have thought or still think that asthma is just in their head.0 -
seems like you get it, except in this case said medical need is fake more or less and an unnecessary one at that
i remember a local restaurant said they will not honor any requests to prepare any gluten free meals, i swear the gluten free crowd took it quite personally and acted as if the owner of the restaurant was committing a crime against them but in the end common sense prevailed and their voices were quickly silenced by those that agreed with the decision
the reason for not honoring any gluten free requests was simple, demand is simply not there to justify it, its not worth the time or the money to purchase ingredients necessary for gluten free meals (in this case artisan pizzas) and with the nature of the oven being used (brick wood fire oven built in naples and delivered to iowa) it wasn't worth the maintenance required to ensure that pizzas could be made gluten free and ensuring no cross contamination
there is a difference between preparing a gluten free meal and being nice about it than to demean people in the service industry just because you believe you have a medical need that some will say is false to put it lightly
being a PITA isn't about making the gluten free meals, its about how one behaves and i can tell you from years being spent in asia and australia its an american idea to demean people in the service industry, nothing worse than american customers and to make matters worse include someone who alleges to be gluten free and you have a powder keg waiting to explode
all in all i think you somewhat understand where i'm coming from, i don't know whether you agree with me but at least you can understand, whether you relate to it is an entirely different matter
and if you are nice about it then that puts you in the minority
I've been wanting to avoid responding to you, because I don't feel most of your posts have been constructive. However, I wanted to comment a little on this response, and voice a point that keeps coming back into my head every time I read this thread.
In my opinion, I think it's unreasonable to expect a restaurant that specializes in wheat/bread based foods (pizza place, bakery, etc) to offer gluten-free, and consider those that do to simply be "icing on the cake" (and even then, only for those who can tolerate small amounts of gluten). These types of restaurants can't make an entirely gluten-free option if they make their gluten-containing products in the same kitchen -- cross-contamination is pretty much guaranteed, just from the flour that gets kicked into the air.
Places that don't, however, shouldn't have an issue with it, within reason. There's a difference between asking if the home fries are dusted in flour, or if you can get them sans flour, and demanding that the french fries be fried in a dedicated fryer because the usual fryer is also used to fry breaded foods. The former is reasonable, the latter is not.
You mentioned that you're a chef and that you don't actually talk to the customers. As such, did it ever occur to you that you're noticing the belligerent ones, because they're the ones that are catching your attention, probably by raising their voice? I'm willing to bet that for every person like that that has passed through your restaurant, there are three others that simply ordered the steak and steamed broccoli, salad without cheese, or other item that complies with their chosen way of eating (gluten free, vegan, or otherwise), as well as dozens more who have simply quietly passed by your restaurant entirely, because they didn't want to deal with a restaurant that didn't have an allergen menu (gluten free or otherwise) and didn't want to deal with the mutual hassle of having to ask a hundred questions and modify a bunch of the orders.
I think it's also worthwhile to keep in mind that not all reactions (including allergic ones) are instantaneous. So while you may be able to secretly keep/put in a certain ingredient (flour, peanuts, milk, or anything else that the person asked to keep out) and not see their physiological reaction, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Even an allergy (histamine reaction) can take up to two hours to show symptoms. This means they'll likely be gone long before you ever see the effects of them ingesting something their body can't handle.
Unfortunately, there are belligerent *kitten* in every group. I used to work retail and tech support. I didn't even bother counting the number of times I or my coworkers were verbally abused by someone for one reason or another. We'd been accused of being racist, liars, thieves, you name it (and for nothing more than simply doing our job). It wasn't unheard of to have to have the manager or security physically kick the person out (or call the cops), in some cases because they escalate beyond verbal and actually get violent. Being an *kitten* isn't isolated to just certain groups of people, and painting them all with the same brush because of the actions of a few is a unwarranted and unreasonable as those few's behavior toward you and your coworkers.
One of my favorite examples of this is in this article -- http://positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service/ . A customer of Southwest airlines would always fly Southwest and would always complain about something. The CEO ultimately replied with a nice version of "don't let the door hit you on the way out."
you make a very good point and the only one i can really respond to is this one, i've worked in open kitchens for years (kitchens are completely visible to the guests and vice versa) and i appreciate your response (it shows you have are capable of critical thinking) and here is my response to that, most kitchens/restaurants operate on a model that states "every guest, every need, every time" and thats a good way of running a place depending on the food that you serve, others won't allow substitutions or won't honor most special requests regardless of the nature of the requests, i have worked in both, currently i find myself somewhere in the middle of that where i do deny many special requests but comply with others simply based on one thing, the quality of the food
but thats beside the point and sometimes i have to accept the fact that i won't please everybody, be it vegans, vegetarians, celiacs, or those who allege to be gluten free and thats fine because that is the nature of the beast
but when said nutritional need is based on something that many (including myself) is downright false and part of a trend more than anything thats when it merits calling out
even though i do look down on vegans and vegetarians i won't call b/s on their requests because many have very good reasons (even though i disagree with most of them) for choosing that type of eating habit
but choosing to be gluten free is an entirely different matter, after all wasn't this thread started by questioning the validity of gluten intolerance, i have always called that into question and have always believed gluten intolerance and sensitivity is a load of crap to begin with and proof has been provided by others to support that claim
thats where my argument has always started, gluten intolerance and sensitivity is a load of crap that needs to be called out, its a way for these sheep to throw away their money into a business that is ballooning in size and will only get bigger based on people's stupidty, misunderstanding, lack of education and sense of self-important they give themselves, if people really researched why they react to certain foods instead of following this trend like sheep maybe just maybe they could lead better lives
since most of these sheep won't and just follow the trend like leather plaid bell bottoms you end up with a lot of self-righteous aloof people sitting in a restaurant demanding a gluten free menu when that should every rarely be the case (major cities like NY, LA, SFO is a different story) that doesn't mean there needs/requests should be denied but usually they are jerks about it (thats an advantage of an open kitchen, you get to see/hear everything)
when the attitude/behavior of these alleged gluten free people becomes comic fodder for big time comedians it should tell you something, a trend (regardles of how stupid or fake it is) that is mocked like that should tell you that it isn't something benign or inconsequential as some might think
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/10430422/The-great-gluten-free-scam.html
that is a great article done by the telegraph and one i use to reference how stupid this trend is and combined with the scientific data provided by another poster and that is the basis of my argument, also add the fact of how unbearable these people are to deal with and you get why i'm typically so intolerant of these people (except for celiacs because what they go through is quite real and backed by science)0 -
Seems you have me researching all kinds of stuff! Thanks. My mom was born 1933, they told her it was all in her head and sent her home. Different era, different type of town...........maybe that was freak incident.
In my lifetime (53 yrs) I have never heard asthma referred to as anything but a serious medical issue that must be dealt with immediately
For what it's worth, I was misdiagnosed with bronchitis for the better part of 13 years before finally diagnosed with asthma. Between that and the number of times I've seen people have to fight to get the tests for various disorders (including, but not limited to Celiac, PCOS, IBS, and a host of neurological and mental disorders), only to have the doctors tell them it's all in their head, or they couldn't possibly have that, or whatever, and the number of times I've seen people get misdiagnosed for things, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more doctors that have thought or still think that asthma is just in their head.
Only slightly off subject: were you aware that it has been recently discovered that some asthma is caused by a bacteria called Chalmydia pneumoniae? It can be cured with long-term antibiotic use (like, at least six months). I wonder what antibiotics on that scale would do to intestinal flora.0 -
It only exists within celiac, yeast overgrowth and people who actually have a wheat intolerance. It's generalized as a wheat allergy/intolerance. Not gluten intolerance. It's a marketing ploy for selling more "health" products... I would know, I have a wheat intolerance through blood tests and I was told that includes gluten because gluten is in wheat. So it would be a wheat sensitivity some people are more likely to have who are sensitive to gluten/can't digest it properly.0
-
seems like you get it, except in this case said medical need is fake more or less and an unnecessary one at that
i remember a local restaurant said they will not honor any requests to prepare any gluten free meals, i swear the gluten free crowd took it quite personally and acted as if the owner of the restaurant was committing a crime against them but in the end common sense prevailed and their voices were quickly silenced by those that agreed with the decision
the reason for not honoring any gluten free requests was simple, demand is simply not there to justify it, its not worth the time or the money to purchase ingredients necessary for gluten free meals (in this case artisan pizzas) and with the nature of the oven being used (brick wood fire oven built in naples and delivered to iowa) it wasn't worth the maintenance required to ensure that pizzas could be made gluten free and ensuring no cross contamination
there is a difference between preparing a gluten free meal and being nice about it than to demean people in the service industry just because you believe you have a medical need that some will say is false to put it lightly
being a PITA isn't about making the gluten free meals, its about how one behaves and i can tell you from years being spent in asia and australia its an american idea to demean people in the service industry, nothing worse than american customers and to make matters worse include someone who alleges to be gluten free and you have a powder keg waiting to explode
all in all i think you somewhat understand where i'm coming from, i don't know whether you agree with me but at least you can understand, whether you relate to it is an entirely different matter
and if you are nice about it then that puts you in the minority
I've been wanting to avoid responding to you, because I don't feel most of your posts have been constructive. However, I wanted to comment a little on this response, and voice a point that keeps coming back into my head every time I read this thread.
In my opinion, I think it's unreasonable to expect a restaurant that specializes in wheat/bread based foods (pizza place, bakery, etc) to offer gluten-free, and consider those that do to simply be "icing on the cake" (and even then, only for those who can tolerate small amounts of gluten). These types of restaurants can't make an entirely gluten-free option if they make their gluten-containing products in the same kitchen -- cross-contamination is pretty much guaranteed, just from the flour that gets kicked into the air.
Places that don't, however, shouldn't have an issue with it, within reason. There's a difference between asking if the home fries are dusted in flour, or if you can get them sans flour, and demanding that the french fries be fried in a dedicated fryer because the usual fryer is also used to fry breaded foods. The former is reasonable, the latter is not.
You mentioned that you're a chef and that you don't actually talk to the customers. As such, did it ever occur to you that you're noticing the belligerent ones, because they're the ones that are catching your attention, probably by raising their voice? I'm willing to bet that for every person like that that has passed through your restaurant, there are three others that simply ordered the steak and steamed broccoli, salad without cheese, or other item that complies with their chosen way of eating (gluten free, vegan, or otherwise), as well as dozens more who have simply quietly passed by your restaurant entirely, because they didn't want to deal with a restaurant that didn't have an allergen menu (gluten free or otherwise) and didn't want to deal with the mutual hassle of having to ask a hundred questions and modify a bunch of the orders.
I think it's also worthwhile to keep in mind that not all reactions (including allergic ones) are instantaneous. So while you may be able to secretly keep/put in a certain ingredient (flour, peanuts, milk, or anything else that the person asked to keep out) and not see their physiological reaction, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Even an allergy (histamine reaction) can take up to two hours to show symptoms. This means they'll likely be gone long before you ever see the effects of them ingesting something their body can't handle.
Unfortunately, there are belligerent *kitten* in every group. I used to work retail and tech support. I didn't even bother counting the number of times I or my coworkers were verbally abused by someone for one reason or another. We'd been accused of being racist, liars, thieves, you name it (and for nothing more than simply doing our job). It wasn't unheard of to have to have the manager or security physically kick the person out (or call the cops), in some cases because they escalate beyond verbal and actually get violent. Being an *kitten* isn't isolated to just certain groups of people, and painting them all with the same brush because of the actions of a few is a unwarranted and unreasonable as those few's behavior toward you and your coworkers.
One of my favorite examples of this is in this article -- http://positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service/ . A customer of Southwest airlines would always fly Southwest and would always complain about something. The CEO ultimately replied with a nice version of "don't let the door hit you on the way out."
you make a very good point and the only one i can really respond to is this one, i've worked in open kitchens for years (kitchens are completely visible to the guests and vice versa) and i appreciate your response (it shows you have are capable of critical thinking) and here is my response to that, most kitchens/restaurants operate on a model that states "every guest, every need, every time" and thats a good way of running a place depending on the food that you serve, others won't allow substitutions or won't honor most special requests regardless of the nature of the requests, i have worked in both, currently i find myself somewhere in the middle of that where i do deny many special requests but comply with others simply based on one thing, the quality of the food
but thats beside the point and sometimes i have to accept the fact that i won't please everybody, be it vegans, vegetarians, celiacs, or those who allege to be gluten free and thats fine because that is the nature of the beast
but when said nutritional need is based on something that many (including myself) is downright false and part of a trend more than anything thats when it merits calling out
even though i do look down on vegans and vegetarians i won't call b/s on their requests because many have very good reasons (even though i disagree with most of them) for choosing that type of eating habit
but choosing to be gluten free is an entirely different matter, after all wasn't this thread started by questioning the validity of gluten intolerance, i have always called that into question and have always believed gluten intolerance and sensitivity is a load of crap to begin with and proof has been provided by others to support that claim
thats where my argument has always started, gluten intolerance and sensitivity is a load of crap that needs to be called out, its a way for these sheep to throw away their money into a business that is ballooning in size and will only get bigger based on people's stupidty, misunderstanding, lack of education and sense of self-important they give themselves, if people really researched why they react to certain foods instead of following this trend like sheep maybe just maybe they could lead better lives
since most of these sheep won't and just follow the trend like leather plaid bell bottoms you end up with a lot of self-righteous aloof people sitting in a restaurant demanding a gluten free menu when that should every rarely be the case (major cities like NY, LA, SFO is a different story) that doesn't mean there needs/requests should be denied but usually they are jerks about it (thats an advantage of an open kitchen, you get to see/hear everything)
when the attitude/behavior of these alleged gluten free people becomes comic fodder for big time comedians it should tell you something, a trend (regardles of how stupid or fake it is) that is mocked like that should tell you that it isn't something benign or inconsequential as some might think
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/10430422/The-great-gluten-free-scam.html
that is a great article done by the telegraph and one i use to reference how stupid this trend is and combined with the scientific data provided by another poster and that is the basis of my argument, also add the fact of how unbearable these people are to deal with and you get why i'm typically so intolerant of these people (except for celiacs because what they go through is quite real and backed by science)
Wow, aren't you just lovely.0 -
Wow, aren't you just lovely.
Ironically, he's the one who has been unbearable in this thread.0 -
Poor OP didn't think this 1 through..0
-
seems like you get it, except in this case said medical need is fake more or less and an unnecessary one at that
i remember a local restaurant said they will not honor any requests to prepare any gluten free meals, i swear the gluten free crowd took it quite personally and acted as if the owner of the restaurant was committing a crime against them but in the end common sense prevailed and their voices were quickly silenced by those that agreed with the decision
the reason for not honoring any gluten free requests was simple, demand is simply not there to justify it, its not worth the time or the money to purchase ingredients necessary for gluten free meals (in this case artisan pizzas) and with the nature of the oven being used (brick wood fire oven built in naples and delivered to iowa) it wasn't worth the maintenance required to ensure that pizzas could be made gluten free and ensuring no cross contamination
there is a difference between preparing a gluten free meal and being nice about it than to demean people in the service industry just because you believe you have a medical need that some will say is false to put it lightly
being a PITA isn't about making the gluten free meals, its about how one behaves and i can tell you from years being spent in asia and australia its an american idea to demean people in the service industry, nothing worse than american customers and to make matters worse include someone who alleges to be gluten free and you have a powder keg waiting to explode
all in all i think you somewhat understand where i'm coming from, i don't know whether you agree with me but at least you can understand, whether you relate to it is an entirely different matter
and if you are nice about it then that puts you in the minority
I've been wanting to avoid responding to you, because I don't feel most of your posts have been constructive. However, I wanted to comment a little on this response, and voice a point that keeps coming back into my head every time I read this thread.
In my opinion, I think it's unreasonable to expect a restaurant that specializes in wheat/bread based foods (pizza place, bakery, etc) to offer gluten-free, and consider those that do to simply be "icing on the cake" (and even then, only for those who can tolerate small amounts of gluten). These types of restaurants can't make an entirely gluten-free option if they make their gluten-containing products in the same kitchen -- cross-contamination is pretty much guaranteed, just from the flour that gets kicked into the air.
Places that don't, however, shouldn't have an issue with it, within reason. There's a difference between asking if the home fries are dusted in flour, or if you can get them sans flour, and demanding that the french fries be fried in a dedicated fryer because the usual fryer is also used to fry breaded foods. The former is reasonable, the latter is not.
You mentioned that you're a chef and that you don't actually talk to the customers. As such, did it ever occur to you that you're noticing the belligerent ones, because they're the ones that are catching your attention, probably by raising their voice? I'm willing to bet that for every person like that that has passed through your restaurant, there are three others that simply ordered the steak and steamed broccoli, salad without cheese, or other item that complies with their chosen way of eating (gluten free, vegan, or otherwise), as well as dozens more who have simply quietly passed by your restaurant entirely, because they didn't want to deal with a restaurant that didn't have an allergen menu (gluten free or otherwise) and didn't want to deal with the mutual hassle of having to ask a hundred questions and modify a bunch of the orders.
I think it's also worthwhile to keep in mind that not all reactions (including allergic ones) are instantaneous. So while you may be able to secretly keep/put in a certain ingredient (flour, peanuts, milk, or anything else that the person asked to keep out) and not see their physiological reaction, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Even an allergy (histamine reaction) can take up to two hours to show symptoms. This means they'll likely be gone long before you ever see the effects of them ingesting something their body can't handle.
Unfortunately, there are belligerent *kitten* in every group. I used to work retail and tech support. I didn't even bother counting the number of times I or my coworkers were verbally abused by someone for one reason or another. We'd been accused of being racist, liars, thieves, you name it (and for nothing more than simply doing our job). It wasn't unheard of to have to have the manager or security physically kick the person out (or call the cops), in some cases because they escalate beyond verbal and actually get violent. Being an *kitten* isn't isolated to just certain groups of people, and painting them all with the same brush because of the actions of a few is a unwarranted and unreasonable as those few's behavior toward you and your coworkers.
One of my favorite examples of this is in this article -- http://positivesharing.com/2006/07/why-the-customer-is-always-right-results-in-bad-customer-service/ . A customer of Southwest airlines would always fly Southwest and would always complain about something. The CEO ultimately replied with a nice version of "don't let the door hit you on the way out."
you make a very good point and the only one i can really respond to is this one, i've worked in open kitchens for years (kitchens are completely visible to the guests and vice versa) and i appreciate your response (it shows you have are capable of critical thinking) and here is my response to that, most kitchens/restaurants operate on a model that states "every guest, every need, every time" and thats a good way of running a place depending on the food that you serve, others won't allow substitutions or won't honor most special requests regardless of the nature of the requests, i have worked in both, currently i find myself somewhere in the middle of that where i do deny many special requests but comply with others simply based on one thing, the quality of the food
but thats beside the point and sometimes i have to accept the fact that i won't please everybody, be it vegans, vegetarians, celiacs, or those who allege to be gluten free and thats fine because that is the nature of the beast
but when said nutritional need is based on something that many (including myself) is downright false and part of a trend more than anything thats when it merits calling out
even though i do look down on vegans and vegetarians i won't call b/s on their requests because many have very good reasons (even though i disagree with most of them) for choosing that type of eating habit
but choosing to be gluten free is an entirely different matter, after all wasn't this thread started by questioning the validity of gluten intolerance, i have always called that into question and have always believed gluten intolerance and sensitivity is a load of crap to begin with and proof has been provided by others to support that claim
thats where my argument has always started, gluten intolerance and sensitivity is a load of crap that needs to be called out, its a way for these sheep to throw away their money into a business that is ballooning in size and will only get bigger based on people's stupidty, misunderstanding, lack of education and sense of self-important they give themselves, if people really researched why they react to certain foods instead of following this trend like sheep maybe just maybe they could lead better lives
since most of these sheep won't and just follow the trend like leather plaid bell bottoms you end up with a lot of self-righteous aloof people sitting in a restaurant demanding a gluten free menu when that should every rarely be the case (major cities like NY, LA, SFO is a different story) that doesn't mean there needs/requests should be denied but usually they are jerks about it (thats an advantage of an open kitchen, you get to see/hear everything)
when the attitude/behavior of these alleged gluten free people becomes comic fodder for big time comedians it should tell you something, a trend (regardles of how stupid or fake it is) that is mocked like that should tell you that it isn't something benign or inconsequential as some might think
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeating/10430422/The-great-gluten-free-scam.html
that is a great article done by the telegraph and one i use to reference how stupid this trend is and combined with the scientific data provided by another poster and that is the basis of my argument, also add the fact of how unbearable these people are to deal with and you get why i'm typically so intolerant of these people (except for celiacs because what they go through is quite real and backed by science)
Wow, aren't you just lovely.
i am actually, i just call it how i see them and lately i'm finding that more and more people agree with me, political correctness can be a good thing but it can also lead to the prevention of honest productive thought and exchanges from ever taking place
yes gluten sensitivity/intolerance exists in the same way that intolerance to japanenos and booze exists, that doesn't mean people who can't hold their liquor or are unable to take some spice demand menus and a line of products to suit their needs
and like i said before, science backs my argument and lately its becoming comic fodder (watch jimmy kimmel's glutten free skit)
remember this thing started with the idea the gluten sensitivity/intolerance doesn't exist and the scientific documentation to support that train of thought
in return you get people who feel special and the creation of an industry that really has no business in existing in its current form to begin with
as for vegetarians and vegans i'll refer you to anthony bourdain's kitchen confidential, its a great book (i think its on amazon's list of "must read" books) and something that is quite common in my line of work0 -
Wow, aren't you just lovely.
Ironically, he's the one who has been unbearable in this thread.
thank you 0 -
as for vegetarians and vegans i'll refer you to anthony bourdain's kitchen confidential, its a great book (i think its on amazon's list of "must read" books) and something that is quite common in my line of work
The fact you look down on people for their own ethical choices guarantees I won't be reading anything you recommend, in fear of catching something.0 -
as for vegetarians and vegans i'll refer you to anthony bourdain's kitchen confidential, its a great book (i think its on amazon's list of "must read" books) and something that is quite common in my line of work
The fact you look down on people for their own ethical choices guarantees I won't be reading anything you recommend, in fear of catching something.
thats fine but i think the topic was gluten sensitivity and whether it exists or whether its a bunch of b/s, i'm afraid i went off topic for a bit but i don't expect you to understand, and if reading anthony bourdain's work means you'll catch something that by all means read as much of his stuff as you can
its clear you don't know who he is but i assure you he's quite famous and for a good reason0 -
as for vegetarians and vegans i'll refer you to anthony bourdain's kitchen confidential, its a great book (i think its on amazon's list of "must read" books) and something that is quite common in my line of work
The fact you look down on people for their own ethical choices guarantees I won't be reading anything you recommend, in fear of catching something.
thats fine but i think the topic was gluten sensitivity and whether it exists or whether its a bunch of b/s, i'm afraid i went off topic for a bit but i don't expect you to understand, and if reading anthony bourdain's work means you'll catch something that by all means read as much of his stuff as you can
its clear you don't know who he is but i assure you he's quite famous and for a good reason
As someone with celiacs who has worked for years as both a chef and baker, I fully understand the frustrations of dietary restrictions AND catering for them. However, if someone is willing to pay, I am willing to accommodate. I particularly enjoy having a job, which I can only have if customers return because they're treated well. And yes, I know Anthony Bourdain is. I recommend not making assumptions around here, it only makes you look foolish.0 -
as for vegetarians and vegans i'll refer you to anthony bourdain's kitchen confidential, its a great book (i think its on amazon's list of "must read" books) and something that is quite common in my line of work
The fact you look down on people for their own ethical choices guarantees I won't be reading anything you recommend, in fear of catching something.
thats fine but i think the topic was gluten sensitivity and whether it exists or whether its a bunch of b/s, i'm afraid i went off topic for a bit but i don't expect you to understand, and if reading anthony bourdain's work means you'll catch something that by all means read as much of his stuff as you can
its clear you don't know who he is but i assure you he's quite famous and for a good reason
As someone with celiacs who has worked for years as both a chef and baker, I fully understand the frustrations of both dietary restrictions AND catering for them. However, if someone is willing to pay, I am willing to accommodate. I particularly enjoy having a job, which I can only have if customers return because they're treated well. And yes, I know Anthony Bourdain is. I recommend not making assumptions around here, it only makes you look foolish.
then i'm surprised you feel that way and you working the pastry side should understand how much b/s this gluten sensitivity is (you're a celiac so your medical needs are legitimate)
one more thing to add about this GF trend, when is more research going to be done as to the health effects of GF alternatives and whether they are good for you or not, if you can point me to that direction i'd love to read it, just because i feel and think this way now doesn't mean i can't change my view point of there is scientific proof to show otherwise
my viewpoint isn't set in stone, but as the science is showing now the vast majority of this GF stuff is bologna to begin with, i'm sure research in the future may make a believer out of me but based on what science tells me now its kind of hard to play ball with this GF trend
and as far as accomodating their requests i've worked in places where policy is to accomodate every request and also in places where no special requests are to be\considered unless its a health concern (i.e allergy) or if its a religious dietary rule (i.e halal or kosher), its all relative to where you work/dine0 -
on another note, how can you claim to have years of exerience as a chef when you're only 22, seems to me like you are quite green if you ask me, do this for 10 years and we'll see if you view things the same way0
-
and like i said before, science backs my argument and lately its becoming comic fodder (watch jimmy kimmel's glutten free skit)
You say this, but you haven't even bothered to discuss the science. The topic of this thread is just that: the science, not whether or not a so-called "chef" gets butthurt when asked to accommodate special requests. Hence, as I stated before, you are contributing nothing to the conversation.0 -
it has nothing to do with the "chef" getting butthurt, its about other reasons why GF is crap to begin with as well as the science behind it, and don't get all butthurt with me either, why don't you point that self-righteousness of yours to the others that are just stating
"the science is wrong because my farts smell funny"
you may not like what i have to say and thats fine and if you are so bothered by it then don't respond, i have provided other reasons why GF is crap (celiacs being the exception), have you bothered reading the article i posted from the guardian (a well respected news source) i doubt it because that backs part of what i am saying as well, if you read through the responses of these alleged GF people you will start to see what i am saying all along, the same self righteousness you use to put yourself on a moral pedestal is the same righteousness the detractors of that article are standing on to make them feel special, much like you feel special at the moment
and it has nothing to do with me being butthurt, i get butthurt about other things, but this is just something that needs to get called out and if you don't like it, have another gluten free cracker and don't respond, its that simple otherwise counter my argument, provide evidence from news sources, science journals etc etc and carry on, otherwise take your self righteousness and put it to better use elsewhere because if you allege that i bring nothing to this conversation then you are doing just as good of a job as i am
and other reasons why GF is crap in the first place
it has created an industry that preys on people's gullibility (sales of GF products expected to reach 16 billion by 2016 in the US)
how celebrities have pledged a non-gluten diet and the sheep that follow them (oprah and gwyneth paltrow as a couple of examples)
if your self righteousness blinds you to the fact that i have provided other points to state GF is crap i'll repeat them again, otherwise read, and counter what i have to say thats how it works0 -
I'm a nutritionist by trade (B.Appl.Sc.) but have been working in medical research for the past 12 years, across nutrition, cancer, genetics and mental health. There seems to be lot of misunderstanding around this. Gluten in itself is not ‘bad’ for you, but some people’s bodies just don’t cope with it well, as some don’t cope with alcohol, fruit or dairy.
1. Coeliac disease is an allergic reaction to gluten which is a protein (99% of allergies are related to a specific protein). Coeliacs usually do not feel the effects immediately, but the bowel lining is being seriously damaged which can lead to chronic inflammation, nutritional deficiency (damage prevents absorption of vitamins and minerals), and in the long term, gastrointestinal cancers.
2. Gluten intolerance is not an allergic reaction: people lack the enzyme necessary to break down gluten, just like lactose intolerance where people cannot digest dairy products. Not dangerous, just very unpleasant with symptoms like fatigue, bone or joint pain, bloating, stomach pains, and terrible gas!
People can lack the one enzyme necessary to break down lactose, which is a sugar. I can find no evidence that there is one specific enzyme responsible for breaking down gluten. There are likely many.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions