What YOU should know about GLUTEN SENSITIVITY
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I don't have celiac (I've been tested), but if I eat gluten then I spend the next night in the bathroom spewing out of both ends....
I'd say that gluten sensitivity exists....
Trust me, I'd love to eat a whole pizza and if I could I would.0 -
I don't have celiac (I've been tested), but if I eat gluten then I spend the next night in the bathroom spewing out of both ends....
I'd say that gluten sensitivity exists....
Trust me, I'd love to eat a whole pizza and if I could I would.
that happens to me when i eat too many habaneros, that doesn't mean i have a pepper intolerance0 -
All I know is that if loving WebMD is wrong, then I don't wanna be right!
0 -
I don't have celiac (I've been tested), but if I eat gluten then I spend the next night in the bathroom spewing out of both ends....
I'd say that gluten sensitivity exists....
Trust me, I'd love to eat a whole pizza and if I could I would.
that happens to me when i eat too many habaneros, that doesn't mean i have a pepper intolerance
Of course it doesn't. But I'm not eating "too much" gluten. One slice of toast when I haven't had any gluten in the past several weeks shouldn't land me in the bathroom for hours on end unless there's a real issue going on.
Again, I don't eat gluten free by choice.
ETA: I am annoyed as much as anyone else about people who cut out gluten as part of a fad diet. It's irritating and discredits the rest of us who actually have an issue with gluten. If you don't need to go gluten free, then don't. It's very simple really.0 -
My synopsis of this thread:
There was a scientific study of 37 people that irrefutably proves there is no such thing as gluten intolerance
The people concerned with these findings are NOT being jerks and pointing fingers, only concerned there may be more information that needs to be gathered, and that some people who are GF may indeed be better served to find the true answer to their health issues to avoid further damage to their bodies.
A few people have NO empathy for those of us going through these health issues and their contributions have been "In" or oh noes, jump on a bandwagon.
Given I never get involved in these threads I must say I have learned quite a bit about human nature, AND where to go to get REAL information on the issues that plague me.
Interesting thread with a lot of intelligent conversation. I appreciate those that contributed to furthering my knowledge :flowerforyou:
if you're a celiac i have sympathy for you
if you don't then you're just full of it, plain and simple
Well aren't you a bowl of sunshine, wrapped up in a rainbow.
You do you, and I'll do me.
ETA: No where did I ask for your sympathy, empathy or permission. FYI
to clarity some people just need to be called out for their stupidity as well as their wisdom and intelligence
its clear the vast majority of the people who post here are westerners (usa, canada and western europe) which usually means we tend to not acknowledge stupidity unlike other people
i refuse to feign politeness, courtesy or manners if it means giving people a sense of righteousness they truly don't deserve, instead of coddling these people they should be told they are full of it instead of being told how special they are and how they are right about their self diagnosis
personally i don't pity any of them (except celiacs because i truly do feel bad for them)
i view these symptoms of these alleged gluten free people and compare them with the false sensation of spiders crawling on an arm that most meth addicts deal with, neither of them exist and only get worse because you keep scratching at them
just like climate change and evolution people need to be told when they are wrong, stupid and just plain idiotic
more of a disservice is done to these people if they are being told repeatedly that their self diagnosis is right because they fart funny and scratch themselves
as i recall none of us here are doctors or scientists but rely on the information that they provide to guide us make decisions and thus far science is telling us one thing and people who are *kitten* the other
this isn't so much different that having a debate about climate change or evolution, one side is right, the other side is wrong, no space in between for anecdotes just plain fact
and if you haven't noticed i have zero sympathy for gluten free people, absolutely none (except celiacs because my heart does go out to them)
Wow, just wow. I have advised you I do not fart. I may pooft a bit, but in lady like way as I am running away from the crowd
'people' as in, they are not human?
Applebee's and Chili's are far from hi end restaurants, I was referring to Tru Lucks. That being said, I personally have a standard order I make in any restaurant, especially a place like Applebee's. Salad, no croutons, grilled chicken dry, and oil and vinegar unless they let me use my dressing.
Putting ALL people who are GF in one group is highly unfair, and just as you call BS on all those who believe they are healthier no than when eating it, I call BS on you grouping us in the same category.
Seems you my dear are in the wrong business :ohwell:0 -
My synopsis of this thread:
There was a scientific study of 37 people that irrefutably proves there is no such thing as gluten intolerance
The people concerned with these findings are NOT being jerks and pointing fingers, only concerned there may be more information that needs to be gathered, and that some people who are GF may indeed be better served to find the true answer to their health issues to avoid further damage to their bodies.
A few people have NO empathy for those of us going through these health issues and their contributions have been "In" or oh noes, jump on a bandwagon.
Given I never get involved in these threads I must say I have learned quite a bit about human nature, AND where to go to get REAL information on the issues that plague me.
Interesting thread with a lot of intelligent conversation. I appreciate those that contributed to furthering my knowledge :flowerforyou:
if you're a celiac i have sympathy for you
if you don't then you're just full of it, plain and simple
Well aren't you a bowl of sunshine, wrapped up in a rainbow.
You do you, and I'll do me.
ETA: No where did I ask for your sympathy, empathy or permission. FYI
to clarity some people just need to be called out for their stupidity as well as their wisdom and intelligence
its clear the vast majority of the people who post here are westerners (usa, canada and western europe) which usually means we tend to not acknowledge stupidity unlike other people
i refuse to feign politeness, courtesy or manners if it means giving people a sense of righteousness they truly don't deserve, instead of coddling these people they should be told they are full of it instead of being told how special they are and how they are right about their self diagnosis
personally i don't pity any of them (except celiacs because i truly do feel bad for them)
i view these symptoms of these alleged gluten free people and compare them with the false sensation of spiders crawling on an arm that most meth addicts deal with, neither of them exist and only get worse because you keep scratching at them
just like climate change and evolution people need to be told when they are wrong, stupid and just plain idiotic
more of a disservice is done to these people if they are being told repeatedly that their self diagnosis is right because they fart funny and scratch themselves
as i recall none of us here are doctors or scientists but rely on the information that they provide to guide us make decisions and thus far science is telling us one thing and people who are *kitten* the other
this isn't so much different that having a debate about climate change or evolution, one side is right, the other side is wrong, no space in between for anecdotes just plain fact
and if you haven't noticed i have zero sympathy for gluten free people, absolutely none (except celiacs because my heart does go out to them)
Wow, just wow. I have advised you I do not fart. I may pooft a bit, but in lady like way as I am running away from the crowd
'people' as in, they are not human?
Applebee's and Chili's are far from hi end restaurants, I was referring to Tru Lucks. That being said, I personally have a standard order I make in any restaurant, especially a place like Applebee's. Salad, no croutons, grilled chicken dry, and oil and vinegar unless they let me use my dressing.
Putting ALL people who are GF in one group is highly unfair, and just as you call BS on all those who believe they are healthier no than when eating it, I call BS on you grouping us in the same category.
Seems you my dear are in the wrong business :ohwell:
science actually backs me up and just understanding how people act is another one and yes i will lump all GF people together because rarely, and i mean rarely are they usually not the unbearable bunch they are at restaurants
and you still don't understand what i'm saying and thats ok, its ok to coddle people based on their false self diagnosis when science has provided no proof of them
so evolution is a lie, climate change isn't really happening and gluten sensitivity is as real as the easter bunny, totally get it now
and yes i use "people" as something other than human
my TV hero Dr Cox famously said "people are *kitten* coated *kitten* in *kitten* filling" and GF people are right up there when it comes to that statement
and of course they are far from high end restaurants which is why i limped them in with greasy spoons0 -
Thought I'd pipe in.
I don't eat wheat. I feel a heck of a lot better physically when I don't consume it. Have I been tested/diagnosed/etc? No. It was a decision I made to not include wheat in my diet, and it works for me.
If that makes me stupid/ignorant/uneducated, so be it. I've been called worse.0 -
Thought I'd pipe in.
I don't eat wheat. I feel a heck of a lot better physically when I don't consume it. Have I been tested/diagnosed/etc? No. It was a decision I made to not include wheat in my diet, and it works for me.
If that makes me stupid/ignorant/uneducated, so be it. I've been called worse.
do you go out of your way to be an *kitten* to people because of your decision?
if no then it doesn't apply to you
do you feel special because of it?
if no then it doesn't apply to you
do you self diagnose and imagine symptoms that are just a self fulfilling prophecy take place?
if no then it doesn't apply to you
making a choice and feigning symptoms are two different things0 -
My synopsis of this thread:
There was a scientific study of 37 people that irrefutably proves there is no such thing as gluten intolerance
The people concerned with these findings are NOT being jerks and pointing fingers, only concerned there may be more information that needs to be gathered, and that some people who are GF may indeed be better served to find the true answer to their health issues to avoid further damage to their bodies.
A few people have NO empathy for those of us going through these health issues and their contributions have been "In" or oh noes, jump on a bandwagon.
Given I never get involved in these threads I must say I have learned quite a bit about human nature, AND where to go to get REAL information on the issues that plague me.
Interesting thread with a lot of intelligent conversation. I appreciate those that contributed to furthering my knowledge :flowerforyou:
if you're a celiac i have sympathy for you
if you don't then you're just full of it, plain and simple
Well aren't you a bowl of sunshine, wrapped up in a rainbow.
You do you, and I'll do me.
ETA: No where did I ask for your sympathy, empathy or permission. FYI
to clarity some people just need to be called out for their stupidity as well as their wisdom and intelligence
its clear the vast majority of the people who post here are westerners (usa, canada and western europe) which usually means we tend to not acknowledge stupidity unlike other people
i refuse to feign politeness, courtesy or manners if it means giving people a sense of righteousness they truly don't deserve, instead of coddling these people they should be told they are full of it instead of being told how special they are and how they are right about their self diagnosis
personally i don't pity any of them (except celiacs because i truly do feel bad for them)
i view these symptoms of these alleged gluten free people and compare them with the false sensation of spiders crawling on an arm that most meth addicts deal with, neither of them exist and only get worse because you keep scratching at them
just like climate change and evolution people need to be told when they are wrong, stupid and just plain idiotic
more of a disservice is done to these people if they are being told repeatedly that their self diagnosis is right because they fart funny and scratch themselves
as i recall none of us here are doctors or scientists but rely on the information that they provide to guide us make decisions and thus far science is telling us one thing and people who are *kitten* the other
this isn't so much different that having a debate about climate change or evolution, one side is right, the other side is wrong, no space in between for anecdotes just plain fact
and if you haven't noticed i have zero sympathy for gluten free people, absolutely none (except celiacs because my heart does go out to them)
Wow, just wow. I have advised you I do not fart. I may pooft a bit, but in lady like way as I am running away from the crowd
'people' as in, they are not human?
Applebee's and Chili's are far from hi end restaurants, I was referring to Tru Lucks. That being said, I personally have a standard order I make in any restaurant, especially a place like Applebee's. Salad, no croutons, grilled chicken dry, and oil and vinegar unless they let me use my dressing.
Putting ALL people who are GF in one group is highly unfair, and just as you call BS on all those who believe they are healthier no than when eating it, I call BS on you grouping us in the same category.
Seems you my dear are in the wrong business :ohwell:
science actually backs me up and just understanding how people act is another one and yes i will lump all GF people together because rarely, and i mean rarely are they usually not the unbearable bunch they are at restaurants
and you still don't understand what i'm saying and thats ok, its ok to coddle people based on their false self diagnosis when science has provided no proof of them
so evolution is a lie, climate change isn't really happening and gluten sensitivity is as real as the easter bunny, totally get it now
and yes i use "people" as something other than human
my TV hero Dr Cox famously said "people are *kitten* coated *kitten* in *kitten* filling" and GF people are right up there when it comes to that statement
again, I have been diagnosed and see a gastro and neuro and ortho, all of which agree my current diet is helping my medical issues. My medications have been reduced to 1/5.
BUT......let me put myself in your shoes for just a moment, as I have worked front and back of the house for many types of restaurants. From greasy spoon to steakhouse.
The reason I say don't clump everyone in the same category is that you would never have any idea I have any sort of allergy or intolerance. Why? Because I don't need attention. My friend and I eat all over South Florida at the best places and the hole in the wall that makes me drool. She has a multitude of cant haves, as have I.
We look at the menu, ask questions about ingredients and order according to what we can have. The waiter never has an idea of our needs unless it is something like the Greek place that had yummy Tsziki (sp) the waiter overheard my friend say she wished she could have some, but lemon.............he came back with 2 bowls, one made with vinegar instead. Imagine his tip as 50%.
So in conclusion, you are only HEARING the people who would be a PITA no matter what!. Try a Deli in the center of Delray Beach sometime. Just as a customer I wanted to slap someone!!
I do understand where you are coming from. I don't want your pity, or acceptance, just a bit of understanding that some of us do NOT act that way. Ever0 -
I don't have celiac (I've been tested), but if I eat gluten then I spend the next night in the bathroom spewing out of both ends....
I'd say that gluten sensitivity exists....
Trust me, I'd love to eat a whole pizza and if I could I would.
that happens to me when i eat too many habaneros, that doesn't mean i have a pepper intolerance
Of course it doesn't. But I'm not eating "too much" gluten. One slice of toast when I haven't had any gluten in the past several weeks shouldn't land me in the bathroom for hours on end unless there's a real issue going on.
Again, I don't eat gluten free by choice.
ETA: I am annoyed as much as anyone else about people who cut out gluten as part of a fad diet. It's irritating and discredits the rest of us who actually have an issue with gluten. If you don't need to go gluten free, then don't. It's very simple really.
^^^this.
I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in the conversation, but I really just want to thank you for this comment. As a non-glutie it becomes really difficult to understand how, without a serious health issue, people can have this 'I cannot have a drop of gluten or else!!!' mentality. I guess because my understanding is only how it relates to other things, like lactose for example. There are those who need an epi pen to the heart if they sip milk, but for most people it's 'let me take my pill before my ice cream' or 'I'll just have a small scoop otherwise it will upset my tummy'. That's the difference between an allergy and an intolerance to my understanding. So I don't fully understand how one can be 'intolerant' but on the same level of severity with an allergy or something as serious as celiac's.0 -
My synopsis of this thread:
There was a scientific study of 37 people that irrefutably proves there is no such thing as gluten intolerance
The people concerned with these findings are NOT being jerks and pointing fingers, only concerned there may be more information that needs to be gathered, and that some people who are GF may indeed be better served to find the true answer to their health issues to avoid further damage to their bodies.
A few people have NO empathy for those of us going through these health issues and their contributions have been "In" or oh noes, jump on a bandwagon.
Given I never get involved in these threads I must say I have learned quite a bit about human nature, AND where to go to get REAL information on the issues that plague me.
Interesting thread with a lot of intelligent conversation. I appreciate those that contributed to furthering my knowledge :flowerforyou:
if you're a celiac i have sympathy for you
if you don't then you're just full of it, plain and simple
Well aren't you a bowl of sunshine, wrapped up in a rainbow.
You do you, and I'll do me.
ETA: No where did I ask for your sympathy, empathy or permission. FYI
to clarity some people just need to be called out for their stupidity as well as their wisdom and intelligence
its clear the vast majority of the people who post here are westerners (usa, canada and western europe) which usually means we tend to not acknowledge stupidity unlike other people
i refuse to feign politeness, courtesy or manners if it means giving people a sense of righteousness they truly don't deserve, instead of coddling these people they should be told they are full of it instead of being told how special they are and how they are right about their self diagnosis
personally i don't pity any of them (except celiacs because i truly do feel bad for them)
i view these symptoms of these alleged gluten free people and compare them with the false sensation of spiders crawling on an arm that most meth addicts deal with, neither of them exist and only get worse because you keep scratching at them
just like climate change and evolution people need to be told when they are wrong, stupid and just plain idiotic
more of a disservice is done to these people if they are being told repeatedly that their self diagnosis is right because they fart funny and scratch themselves
as i recall none of us here are doctors or scientists but rely on the information that they provide to guide us make decisions and thus far science is telling us one thing and people who are *kitten* the other
this isn't so much different that having a debate about climate change or evolution, one side is right, the other side is wrong, no space in between for anecdotes just plain fact
and if you haven't noticed i have zero sympathy for gluten free people, absolutely none (except celiacs because my heart does go out to them)
Wow, just wow. I have advised you I do not fart. I may pooft a bit, but in lady like way as I am running away from the crowd
'people' as in, they are not human?
Applebee's and Chili's are far from hi end restaurants, I was referring to Tru Lucks. That being said, I personally have a standard order I make in any restaurant, especially a place like Applebee's. Salad, no croutons, grilled chicken dry, and oil and vinegar unless they let me use my dressing.
Putting ALL people who are GF in one group is highly unfair, and just as you call BS on all those who believe they are healthier no than when eating it, I call BS on you grouping us in the same category.
Seems you my dear are in the wrong business :ohwell:
science actually backs me up and just understanding how people act is another one and yes i will lump all GF people together because rarely, and i mean rarely are they usually not the unbearable bunch they are at restaurants
and you still don't understand what i'm saying and thats ok, its ok to coddle people based on their false self diagnosis when science has provided no proof of them
so evolution is a lie, climate change isn't really happening and gluten sensitivity is as real as the easter bunny, totally get it now
and yes i use "people" as something other than human
my TV hero Dr Cox famously said "people are *kitten* coated *kitten* in *kitten* filling" and GF people are right up there when it comes to that statement
again, I have been diagnosed and see a gastro and neuro and ortho, all of which agree my current diet is helping my medical issues. My medications have been reduced to 1/5.
BUT......let me put myself in your shoes for just a moment, as I have worked front and back of the house for many types of restaurants. From greasy spoon to steakhouse.
The reason I say don't clump everyone in the same category is that you would never have any idea I have any sort of allergy or intolerance. Why? Because I don't need attention. My friend and I eat all over South Florida at the best places and the hole in the wall that makes me drool. She has a multitude of cant haves, as have I.
We look at the menu, ask questions about ingredients and order according to what we can have. The waiter never has an idea of our needs unless it is something like the Greek place that had yummy Tsziki (sp) the waiter overheard my friend say she wished she could have some, but lemon.............he came back with 2 bowls, one made with vinegar instead. Imagine his tip as 50%.
So in conclusion, you are only HEARING the people who would be a PITA no matter what!. Try a Deli in the center of Delray Beach sometime. Just as a customer I wanted to slap someone!!
I do understand where you are coming from. I don't want your pity, or acceptance, just a bit of understanding that some of us do NOT act that way. Ever
i will concede that not all GF people act that way in the same way that not all people who watch soccer are hooligans waiting to riot
that just means that puts you in the minority of an otherwise annoying group of people
but that doesn't mean you are entirely wrong either, again i'll concede that in your particular case you are correct0 -
My synopsis of this thread:
There was a scientific study of 37 people that irrefutably proves there is no such thing as gluten intolerance
The people concerned with these findings are NOT being jerks and pointing fingers, only concerned there may be more information that needs to be gathered, and that some people who are GF may indeed be better served to find the true answer to their health issues to avoid further damage to their bodies.
A few people have NO empathy for those of us going through these health issues and their contributions have been "In" or oh noes, jump on a bandwagon.
Given I never get involved in these threads I must say I have learned quite a bit about human nature, AND where to go to get REAL information on the issues that plague me.
Interesting thread with a lot of intelligent conversation. I appreciate those that contributed to furthering my knowledge :flowerforyou:
if you're a celiac i have sympathy for you
if you don't then you're just full of it, plain and simple
Well aren't you a bowl of sunshine, wrapped up in a rainbow.
You do you, and I'll do me.
ETA: No where did I ask for your sympathy, empathy or permission. FYI
to clarity some people just need to be called out for their stupidity as well as their wisdom and intelligence
its clear the vast majority of the people who post here are westerners (usa, canada and western europe) which usually means we tend to not acknowledge stupidity unlike other people
i refuse to feign politeness, courtesy or manners if it means giving people a sense of righteousness they truly don't deserve, instead of coddling these people they should be told they are full of it instead of being told how special they are and how they are right about their self diagnosis
personally i don't pity any of them (except celiacs because i truly do feel bad for them)
i view these symptoms of these alleged gluten free people and compare them with the false sensation of spiders crawling on an arm that most meth addicts deal with, neither of them exist and only get worse because you keep scratching at them
just like climate change and evolution people need to be told when they are wrong, stupid and just plain idiotic
more of a disservice is done to these people if they are being told repeatedly that their self diagnosis is right because they fart funny and scratch themselves
as i recall none of us here are doctors or scientists but rely on the information that they provide to guide us make decisions and thus far science is telling us one thing and people who are *kitten* the other
this isn't so much different that having a debate about climate change or evolution, one side is right, the other side is wrong, no space in between for anecdotes just plain fact
and if you haven't noticed i have zero sympathy for gluten free people, absolutely none (except celiacs because my heart does go out to them)
You don't say. :indifferent:0 -
First of all, you probably shouldn't say an issue many people are dealing with doesn't exist. You may really upset some people. Also, this article is stupid because it says "science-it works" at the end but nothing in this article cited science. The subjects were "self-identified" as gluten insensitive. Also they cycled through high-gluten, low-gluten, and no-gluten meals blindly and their urine and stools were monitored for 9 days? Any gluten sensitive (professionally diagnosed) or celiac will tell you that 9 days is not long enough to get an accurate result. To have the tolerance testing you have to have had gluten in your diet for several weeks (at least).The urine and stool testing will only show proteins, ketones and malabsorbtion/malnourishment. If someone thinks they have celiac disease or are gluten intolerant they should see their doctor and not rely on a study published on Business Insider.
This totally!0 -
1. Celiacs =/= gluten sensitivity.
2. Gluten sensitivity =/= gluten allergy or wheat allergy.
3. Yeah, pretty much the latest studies have shown that people are very bad when it comes to self diagnosis, which is the only way to test for 'gluten sensitivity'. Pretty much, if you *think* you have it, you will think you feel better when you don't eat it.
Huh. Well for me, I called "BS" to my son when he suggested I remove gluten just to see, I laughed at him. Pointed out that it is just a fad, no truth or science behind it.
Not eating gluten is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I love a hoagie, a plate of pasta. Can do without the cake and muffins, but it is really hard to not be in the party when everyone is eating it.
I did not think in a million years removing any food item would make me feel better, but the truth is it did. I SO didn't believe that gluten was the cause of my problems that after 6 months I went back to eating gluten (slowly- slice of bread here, pasta there) By the end of 2 weeks I as back to higher symptoms.
Some day we will know more thru science I am sure, but for now........for ME.........I will stay away from it and enjoy the side effects of my craziness
There was no implication in my post that I think anyone who avoids certain foods that cause them discomfort is crazy. To me it sounds as if wheat might be an issue for you. If you feel better avoiding it, awesome.
Would you mind telling me what 'better' means? I really am curious.
Yes, certainly, I posted it earlier.
Arthritis pain in hands and feet gone. Migraines with aura reduced significantly (there is a threshold factor here with many things adding to the actual onset of Migraine, so I do not say gluten caused mine, only that removing it reduced the threshold) and my IBS has gotten better.
Mainly though the migraines and arthritis symptoms are the most significant.
I have IBS and migraines am thinking of trying the low-FODMAP diet. Your problem might not be gluten sensitivity per se, but rather a sensitivity to fructose, fructans, galactans, polyols and or lactose. I too can eat breads up to a certain point, after which my IBS begins to kick in.
Soooo... What is a low-FODMAP diet? IF we were curious to try it, is it really any different than the gluten free diet?
And... if you were a server in a restaurant, would you rather me ask for no croutons, or "Do your croutons contain FODMAP?"
Seriously, the poor folks that are being driven crazy by health trends affecting their jobs at restaurants think they are winning one... but how would you like it if you had GF and low-FODMAP clients to serve?
If there was perchance a disgruntled waiter on this thread (not saying there is...) his rebellion against GF living in hopes of making his job easier might just have the opposite result.0 -
The two people that had gluten-specific reactions aren't statistically significant for the study, but they do help open the door for other studies that are more geared toward actually seeing if NCGS if real/testable (by raising questions like "why did these two people respond only to gluten, even on a low-FODMAP diet?" or "given Celiac's abysmal diagnosis rate, could these two people have undiagnosed Celiac, and can we find a new way to test for it?"), and (more to my original point) they refute the media's claim that the study "thoroughly proved that NCGS doesn't exist." If it actually did what the media claimed it did, then there wouldn't have even been those couple of people for whom biomarkers did change only for gluten.
No they do not. That's the entire point of statistical significance.
Are there questions raised by this study? Yes.
Is further research needed? Yes.
Do these two subjects have anything to do with it? Absolutely not. (Especially when you consider the fact that 7 of the participants reacted to the placebo arm but NOT the gluten arm).0 -
My synopsis of this thread:
There was a scientific study of 37 people that irrefutably proves there is no such thing as gluten intolerance
The people concerned with these findings are NOT being jerks and pointing fingers, only concerned there may be more information that needs to be gathered, and that some people who are GF may indeed be better served to find the true answer to their health issues to avoid further damage to their bodies.
A few people have NO empathy for those of us going through these health issues and their contributions have been "In" or oh noes, jump on a bandwagon.
Given I never get involved in these threads I must say I have learned quite a bit about human nature, AND where to go to get REAL information on the issues that plague me.
Interesting thread with a lot of intelligent conversation. I appreciate those that contributed to furthering my knowledge :flowerforyou:
if you're a celiac i have sympathy for you
if you don't then you're just full of it, plain and simple
Well aren't you a bowl of sunshine, wrapped up in a rainbow.
You do you, and I'll do me.
ETA: No where did I ask for your sympathy, empathy or permission. FYI
to clarity some people just need to be called out for their stupidity as well as their wisdom and intelligence
its clear the vast majority of the people who post here are westerners (usa, canada and western europe) which usually means we tend to not acknowledge stupidity unlike other people
i refuse to feign politeness, courtesy or manners if it means giving people a sense of righteousness they truly don't deserve, instead of coddling these people they should be told they are full of it instead of being told how special they are and how they are right about their self diagnosis
personally i don't pity any of them (except celiacs because i truly do feel bad for them)
i view these symptoms of these alleged gluten free people and compare them with the false sensation of spiders crawling on an arm that most meth addicts deal with, neither of them exist and only get worse because you keep scratching at them
just like climate change and evolution people need to be told when they are wrong, stupid and just plain idiotic
more of a disservice is done to these people if they are being told repeatedly that their self diagnosis is right because they fart funny and scratch themselves
as i recall none of us here are doctors or scientists but rely on the information that they provide to guide us make decisions and thus far science is telling us one thing and people who are *kitten* the other
this isn't so much different that having a debate about climate change or evolution, one side is right, the other side is wrong, no space in between for anecdotes just plain fact
and if you haven't noticed i have zero sympathy for gluten free people, absolutely none (except celiacs because my heart does go out to them)
You don't say. :indifferent:
My Spidey senses tell me that it's time to grab some graham crackers, chocolate, and marshmallows0 -
The two people that had gluten-specific reactions aren't statistically significant for the study, but they do help open the door for other studies that are more geared toward actually seeing if NCGS if real/testable (by raising questions like "why did these two people respond only to gluten, even on a low-FODMAP diet?" or "given Celiac's abysmal diagnosis rate, could these two people have undiagnosed Celiac, and can we find a new way to test for it?"), and (more to my original point) they refute the media's claim that the study "thoroughly proved that NCGS doesn't exist." If it actually did what the media claimed it did, then there wouldn't have even been those couple of people for whom biomarkers did change only for gluten.
No they do not. That's the entire point of statistical significance.
Are there questions raised by this study? Yes.
Is further research needed? Yes.
Do these two subjects have anything to do with it? Absolutely not. (Especially when you consider the fact that 7 of the participants reacted to the placebo arm but NOT the gluten arm).
At this point, I don't even know why you insist on arguing with me, when you are so clearly ignoring the point I had been making all along, so I'm just going to once again repeat what I said before.
The study did not (nor did it set out to) "thoroughly disprove the existence of NCGS." All it proved was that at least part of the diagnoses of NCGS may instead be FODMAP sensitivity, that the placebo effect works both ways ("nocebo"), and that more research is sorely needed in this area.0 -
Since I have Hashimoto's, I can tell you the foot pain, headaches, etc. when you are hypothyroid are very real. I don't have any of that now because I am properly medicated, but when I was not properly medicated, I went through all kinds of hell both hyper and hypo thyroid, if you have Hashi's you should know you cycle through both till you crash and stay hypo (when enough damage is done to your thyroid, because Hashimoto's is kind of like like fibrosis of the thyroid, it is a progressive destruction).Totally agree. Just be careful about what you read because you have to trudge through the bad and the good. I can't tell you how much crap I read when I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's. Most of the things I found were trying to sell me on stuff. It was always a relief to find stuff online that were legitimate science.
The fact that a lot of people with thyroid disease have Celiac Sprue is a medical fact.0 -
I should also add I have Hashimoto's but I don't have celiac, I am 100% certain of that. That said, I can make myself miserable if I eat too much of certain foods (like FODMAPs and gluten), yet nothing happens to me if I don't overdo it and just eat them in moderation. I think it has something to do with the slower digestion people with thyroid disease have (another medical fact) food sits longer before it enters the large intestine. I think moderation is a good thing.
I do have 2 foods I am sensitive to, yeast that is undercooked (if cooked properly I am fine with it) and foods with very high levels of nitrates, both of those can and have caused me misery.0 -
I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in the conversation, but I really just want to thank you for this comment. As a non-glutie it becomes really difficult to understand how, without a serious health issue, people can have this 'I cannot have a drop of gluten or else!!!' mentality. I guess because my understanding is only how it relates to other things, like lactose for example. There are those who need an epi pen to the heart if they sip milk, but for most people it's 'let me take my pill before my ice cream' or 'I'll just have a small scoop otherwise it will upset my tummy'. That's the difference between an allergy and an intolerance to my understanding. So I don't fully understand how one can be 'intolerant' but on the same level of severity with an allergy or something as serious as celiac's.
Because most things in nature actually occur along spectra.
Autism is a spectrum disorder (not everyone professionally diagnosed with Autism is even remotely close to the screaming, rocking, non-communicative stereotype, in fact, a large percentage are high functioning and you may not even know it unless they tell you), PCOS is a syndrome (syndromes, by definition, mean that not everyone has every symptom or to the same degree of severity), depression ranges from mild to severe, hell, even normal states are actually ranges (normal human body temperature, for example, actually ranges between 97F and 99.5F). And even "true" allergic reactions have different ranges -- some people need an epipen to the heart from a single bee sting in order to survive, while others just need a Benedryl to handle the more localized reaction unless stung several times.
Your lactose example is another good one. Some people are fine with low-lactose dairy, such as certain cheeses, fermented products, or butter, but can't have high-lactose foods such as milk or ice cream, while others are so sensitive to lactose that they can't even have butter.
I could go on and on with examples of conditions and states that have a spectrum that still qualifies as a given state, but I think you get the idea.
From http://farrp.unl.edu/resources/gi-fas/symptoms-and-severity :The symptoms that occur during a food-allergic reaction will not always be the same. The nature of the symptoms and their severity depend upon several factors including the individual, the amount of the offending food ingested, the tissue receptors that are affected, and the length of time since the previous exposure. Some individuals tend to develop only mild symptoms while others may experience much more severe manifestations.
Additionally, not all food intolerances are isolated to intestinal reactions. That's actually part of what makes even "official" Celiac so hard to diagnose (and why the Celiac Society is ecstatic at the prospect of a 50% diagnosis rate by 2025), let alone NCGS (which doesn't have overt autoimmune response or intestinal damage, which is why it's currently eluding doctors and researchers).
I have a friend who has Celiac, but she still had to fight for years to get testing done, because her doctor insisted that she was "just getting over a bug" (due to elevated white blood cell count), and that's why she was lethargic and had brain fog, but she didn't have much in the way of intestinal distress. When she finally found someone to do the tests, both the bloodwork and the biopsy screamed Celiac.
And, regarding non-intestinal issues, from http://celiac.org/celiac-disease/dermatitis-herpetiformis/ regarding gluten-related skin reactions:Dermatitis Herpetiformis bumps and blisters resemble herpes lesions, hence the name “herpetiformis”, but are NOT caused by the herpes virus. Symptoms of DH tend to come and go, and it is commonly diagnosed as eczema. Symptoms normally resolve when on a strict, gluten-free diet.
DH affects 15 to 25 percent of people with celiac disease who typically have no digestive symptoms.
The National Foundation for Celiac Awareness also says this about NCGS vs Celiac:
http://www.celiaccentral.org/non-celiac-gluten-sensitivity/introduction-and-definitions/Humans are born with an innate immune system. An innate immune response is not antigen specific, meaning that it is nonspecific as to the type of organism it fights. Although its response is immediate against invading organisms, the innate immune system does not have an immunological memory to invading organisms. Its response is not directed towards self tissue, which would result in autoimmune disease.
Unlike non-celiac gluten sensitivity, celiac disease is antigen specific (including tissue-transglutaminase, endomysium and deamidated gliadin antibodies, and in some small children also gliadin antibodies) and does result in an attack on its own tissue. Intestinal damage, or enteropathy, is the direct result.
BMC Medicine, in the paper cited here - http://www.celiaccentral.org/research-news/collaborative-report-suggests-new-classification-for-gluten-related-disorders/ - states that NGCS is an "immune-mediated" disorder. This puts it in a similar position as such disorders as IBS/IBD, psoriasis, arthritis, certain forms of anemia, and others -- none of which have blood tests as either a single or contributing diagnostic tool; diagnoses are made by looking at the symptoms and ruling other issues out.
For both Celiac and NCGS, there can be non-intestinal effects, because of intestinal permeability. Our intestines are kind of like those soaker hoses (the kind that allow water to sort of "ooze" out throughout their length), things can pass out of them. Usually, those "things" are nutrients that the intestines have broken down into a usable form. The cells inside the intestine control what does and doesn't pass through. Sometimes, however, they don't work right (damage, disorder, or simply because the molecule in question looks similar enough to an authorized molecule), and unauthorized things get through. Once inside the rest of the body, the body sees the molecule as a threat and attacks it. The nature of the attack is largely what determines not only whether the person has an autoimmune disorder (the body then starts attacking itself), an immune mediated disorder (body doesn't attack itself, but suffers a certain amount of damage as a result of the attack on the foreign molecules), or an allergic response (histamine response), but also the nature and severity of the effects, as well as the delay of onset (instant vs delayed, anaphylaxis vs eczema/psoriasis flare-up vs anemia, etc).
Here's some more reading, for those who are interested:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24524388 -- IgG marker measurements of Celiac and NCGS subjects after going gluten-free
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/crii/2013/248482/ -- The overlap of CD, NCGS and Chron's Disease (which I think was mentioned here earlier)0
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