Calories in vs. calories out?

Acg67

Calories are important but not the end all be all. Carbs are equally important. For instance depending what time you have a high carb intake determine if you body creates insulin which forces the body to store fat. You can try the Junk food way if you want but you won't make any gains. Calories, carbs, protein, sugars all play a part in getting lean and creating maximum protein synthesis for muscle growth.

I hope you don't have a PWO shake, would cause a massive insulin spike and kill your gainzzzz

Yagisama

I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.

Because no one would buy a book consisting of a short paragraph.

WaynesGurl

All calories are not created equal....I had a piece of Sopapilla cheesecake for lunch one day....dpn't judge. lol And I felt like crap at my workout. I stayed on track with all else that day....just the lunch. SMH I am an educated woman, but that day it seemed reasonable.

yopeeps025

I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.

Because no one would buy a book consisting of a short paragraph.

So why so many threads and forum is the answer is calories in,<calories out.

iPlatano

Alberto Nunez - Drug free natural bodybuilder.

Look him up on youtube, websites etc.

Yagisama

I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.

Because no one would buy a book consisting of a short paragraph.

So why so many threads and forum is the answer is calories in,<calories out.

Because it's the correct answer.

jmangini

I'm busy having the same argument in another thread, but I just gotta repeat what I see as the main issue here.

This is a calorie counting website. That's it's purpose. Don't believe in CICO? Cool. Plenty of people don't. But you shouldn't be here. If you are here and start a thread saying it's not about calories, stop being so shocked when people disagree with you.

Log on to some website about chess. Say you don't like chess and think it's dumb. What kind of responses do you expect to get?

Basically stop coming into a community, ****ting on what they believe in, and calling them rude for not agreeing with you.

what the H are you talking about? Where did I state i don't believe in calorie in calorie out? And who I am I debating with? You are just debating yourself. I didn't take a stance at all. Just posed some questions.

Oh. I see. You were JAQing off. (Just Asking Questions, as they say in another forum I use)

Asking questions in a leading manner, when answers are given contrary to what you so obviously were attempting to set up, you back off and say "Hey man, I was just asking questions!"

No, I actually wanted to see other peoples opinions on the subject. I haven't argued or debated with anyone. You're the only one coming after me. If you don't like my post, you didn't have to reply at all instead of insulting me.

Understand that in most of my post I was using the royal "you." You're not the first person today to question the validity of calorie counting, and you won't be the last. I was not coming after you, as you say. Just stating what I believe is a central fact in these threads that often gets overlooked.

If you question the effectiveness of calorie counting, on a forum for calorie counting, you will be met with resistance. Same as any other site dedicated to something. Don't be surprised when backlash occurs and start calling everyone else mean.

Again, using the royal you in my above statement.

okay cool

jmangini

Alberto Nunez - Drug free natural bodybuilder.

Look him up on youtube, websites etc.

he's amazing for all natural.

jmangini

I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.

Because no one would buy a book consisting of a short paragraph.

funny

morleyj88

hi everyone my name is jake and i am new to the board, i have put on a few lbs over the long winter( more than i would have guessed) but i have made up my mind and its time for a change both physically and mentally and i figured the best way to achive both is with a diet and exercise reboot. If anyone out there could help point me in the right direction, i have gym and exercise experience what i lack is food and nutritional help along with any supplements i might consider trying that would be condusive to my weight loss goal for the summer.

starting weight 221
desired weight 205

by july 15th

iPlatano

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.


:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Thank you, doctor.

You're welcome. I bill out at $86/word, but you'll have the invoice shortly.

But seriously, when you starve your body burns calories and you lose weight. That's it. No such thing as not eating and maintaining weight. You could eat 900 calories/day and exercise and lose weight. Your body won't stop doing it.

+1 Your body just rain a bunch of water when you cut your calories too low.

tycho_mx

Again, people confuse "simple" with "easy".

An energy deficit is necessary for weight loss. There's no way around that. Thermodynamic laws would need to be violated. You're not a wormhole. You don't violate these. (although I eat enough sometimes to resemble a black hole).

So, weight loss is simply a matter of eating less than what you expend over period. This can be anything from a stylite saint on top of a pole doing nothing but meditating to a Tour de France rider consuming 4,000 calories a day - and still losing weight because he rode 8 hours/day for the last week.

Now, the premise is simple "provide a deficit for weight loss". Then we add some of the complexities you mention:

1. Athletic competition: I am pretty sure if you grabbed a famished concentration camp prisoner he'd be unable to perform at his /her physical peak. Weight and body composition is only one of the factors for athletes. It is completely demonstrated that effective fuelling your workouts has a huge effect on performance. So you could eat 800 cal/day, try to run a marathon on successive days, and see what the failure point is. This factor is important for competition AND training. These guys may be able to get skinny, but not fit if they are not eating properly.

Anecdotally, I can't race/ride hard on heavy, greasy foods. Steady rides? Yes, frag, I could eat a roast on the bike. But I can't even do repeated hard efforts on peanut butter toast. I learned this the hard way. Also - one of my current challenges is trying to lose weight while keeping high-quality workouts. If push came to shove, I'll take the extra pound with the better engine.

2. Hormones play a role in the "basal calories". Not just hormones, but general body efficiency. I found out that I am "efficient" (read: lazy) and burn less than the estimated TDEE from a website. I got this answer from a gas exchange analysis. Most people guesstimate their caloric needs, which is accurate enough in the majority of cases. I was a large anomaly, but not unhealthy, mutant, etc. Just the natural variability between individuals; The premise is still the same: if you measure things accurately. Only a small percent of people actually present a legitimate hormonal condition that would impair their weight loss significantly.

3. That's a switch. weight loss is not the same as a healthy diet. Ideally you want both. See "Twinky Diet Experiment". You can lose significant weight and fat by eating crap, but probably won't be very happy about it.

4. Again, another switch. At a deficit, you'll lose fat, water, and muscle. See famished concentration camp prisoners that look like mummies. As an assumption, no one really wants to look like that and so it is assumed that you want to preserve muscle for aesthetic, athletic, and body composition considerations (i.e. beyond simple weight loss). Clinical testing seems to suggest that muscle mass is preserved better on higher protein diets that also incorporate some resistance training. If you only want to lose weight (and don't mind looking like a mummy, or you actually NEED to compete at a weight class like rowers) then sometimes losing muscle is necessary.

5. Again, confounding the issues between weight loss and health. You can get scurvy from lack of vitamin C gaining or losing. You can get rickets from lack of Vit. D gaining or losing weight. Since you ideally want to lose weight and be healthy, you want to keep track of your calories (macros) AND micronutrients, too. These are not the same things; you can lose weight in a healthy manner or gain 200 lb and be brittle from lack of vitamin D and calcium. There's also a huge psychological component here - if you consume all your calories in a low-filling, low-satisfaction vehicle (say, ensure) you would still lose if you keep the deficit. But that just makes it more challenging than necessary when you already have to "work" to keep your deficit. Conversely, sometimes these calories are lifesavers. Ultra-endurance athletes often are unable to consume nothing but the simplest, easiest to digest foods (Race Across AMerica). They still lose weight. They still are probably miserable and cranky, but they ride 3000+ miles in less than a week.

6. Nutrient timing seems to be largely irrelevant for weight loss. See "concentration camp" example again. The one caveat for this is physical performance. If you plan on working/exercising/being active you can probably benefit from timing your nutrients accordingly. This has the largest impact on recovery (and repeating exercise, which is crucial for athletic progression). If you only want to lose weight, it really doesn't matter. Most of us don't just want to lose weight, we want to look good, be energetic, be effective at work, etc.

7. (tacit, but important) For most people, weight loss is not a single, unique goal. It is "I want to lose weight to...":

Look better, be a better athlete, feel happier, be healthier. Those factors need to be considered in addition to the caloric deficit. But make no mistake, it's the deficit that governs the mechanism of weight gain or loss.

leggup

Calories in vs. out is all you need to know for weight loss. If your deficit calories to lose 2 lbs per week is 1,500 calories, you can have 15 100-calorie snackpacks and lose 2 lbs a week. People don't successfully maintain full junkfood diets and lose weight because they get hungry again later and go over the deficit amount. It's not sustainable. However, you can lose weight and have cake and things. Fit them into your calories.

As far as strength, feeling good (digestively), getting your hair/skin/nails in great shape... then you need to make sure you're getting adequate fat/protein, vitamins, minerals, etc.

iPlatano

Alberto Nunez - Drug free natural bodybuilder.

Look him up on youtube, websites etc.

he's amazing for all natural.

He started lifting weights when he was 16. He's 26 now so that shows that you need to that big.
Yup. Amazing physique.
If you want more info: http://www.3dmusclejourney.com/fa-alberto-nunez.php

Btw I lost 22 pounds eating whatever I want.

jmangini

hi everyone my name is jake and i am new to the board, i have put on a few lbs over the long winter( more than i would have guessed) but i have made up my mind and its time for a change both physically and mentally and i figured the best way to achive both is with a diet and exercise reboot. If anyone out there could help point me in the right direction, i have gym and exercise experience what i lack is food and nutritional help along with any supplements i might consider trying that would be condusive to my weight loss goal for the summer.

starting weight 221
desired weight 205

by july 15th

Good for you. Welcome. As you can see from all of these answers. cut your calories lol. if you look around on here you will find some great advice on eating right to lose weight. There are lots of successful people on here who have done it. My advice would be to cut back on your calories and try to limit simple sugars and saturated fats as much as possible. I'm sure you will get many different answers though. There's the carbs are the devil crowd. The fasting crowd, the your not eating enough crowd, the eat every 2 hour crowd etc. Eating whole nutrient dense foods, and cutting calories, I believe is the best way to go.

yopeeps025

I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.

Because no one would buy a book consisting of a short paragraph.

So why so many threads and forum is the answer is calories in,<calories out.

Because it's the correct answer.

You if we were exact twins and ate the same amount of calories. You ate all your calories in fast food burgers. I ate mine in fruits, veggies, and lean meats. Who will look better? Better question who would die earlier due to a health related issue?

jmangini

Again, people confuse "simple" with "easy".

An energy deficit is necessary for weight loss. There's no way around that. Thermodynamic laws would need to be violated. You're not a wormhole. You don't violate these. (although I eat enough sometimes to resemble a black hole).

So, weight loss is simply a matter of eating less than what you expend over period. This can be anything from a stylite saint on top of a pole doing nothing but meditating to a Tour de France rider consuming 4,000 calories a day - and still losing weight because he rode 8 hours/day for the last week.

Now, the premise is simple "provide a deficit for weight loss". Then we add some of the complexities you mention:

1. Athletic competition: I am pretty sure if you grabbed a famished concentration camp prisoner he'd be unable to perform at his /her physical peak. Weight and body composition is only one of the factors for athletes. It is completely demonstrated that effective fuelling your workouts has a huge effect on performance. So you could eat 800 cal/day, try to run a marathon on successive days, and see what the failure point is. This factor is important for competition AND training. These guys may be able to get skinny, but not fit if they are not eating properly.

Anecdotally, I can't race/ride hard on heavy, greasy foods. Steady rides? Yes, frag, I could eat a roast on the bike. But I can't even do repeated hard efforts on peanut butter toast. I learned this the hard way. Also - one of my current challenges is trying to lose weight while keeping high-quality workouts. If push came to shove, I'll take the extra pound with the better engine.

2. Hormones play a role in the "basal calories". Not just hormones, but general body efficiency. I found out that I am "efficient" (read: lazy) and burn less than the estimated TDEE from a website. I got this answer from a gas exchange analysis. Most people guesstimate their caloric needs, which is accurate enough in the majority of cases. I was a large anomaly, but not unhealthy, mutant, etc. Just the natural variability between individuals; The premise is still the same: if you measure things accurately. Only a small percent of people actually present a legitimate hormonal condition that would impair their weight loss significantly.

3. That's a switch. weight loss is not the same as a healthy diet. Ideally you want both. See "Twinky Diet Experiment". You can lose significant weight and fat by eating crap, but probably won't be very happy about it.

4. Again, another switch. At a deficit, you'll lose fat, water, and muscle. See famished concentration camp prisoners that look like mummies. As an assumption, no one really wants to look like that and so it is assumed that you want to preserve muscle for aesthetic, athletic, and body composition considerations (i.e. beyond simple weight loss). Clinical testing seems to suggest that muscle mass is preserved better on higher protein diets that also incorporate some resistance training. If you only want to lose weight (and don't mind looking like a mummy, or you actually NEED to compete at a weight class like rowers) then sometimes losing muscle is necessary.

5. Again, confounding the issues between weight loss and health. You can get scurvy from lack of vitamin C gaining or losing. You can get rickets from lack of Vit. D gaining or losing weight. Since you ideally want to lose weight and be healthy, you want to keep track of your calories (macros) AND micronutrients, too. These are not the same things; you can lose weight in a healthy manner or gain 200 lb and be brittle from lack of vitamin D and calcium. There's also a huge psychological component here - if you consume all your calories in a low-filling, low-satisfaction vehicle (say, ensure) you would still lose if you keep the deficit. But that just makes it more challenging than necessary when you already have to "work" to keep your deficit. Conversely, sometimes these calories are lifesavers. Ultra-endurance athletes often are unable to consume nothing but the simplest, easiest to digest foods (Race Across AMerica). They still lose weight. They still are probably miserable and cranky, but they ride 3000+ miles in less than a week.

6. Nutrient timing seems to be largely irrelevant for weight loss. See "concentration camp" example again. The one caveat for this is physical performance. If you plan on working/exercising/being active you can probably benefit from timing your nutrients accordingly. This has the largest impact on recovery (and repeating exercise, which is crucial for athletic progression). If you only want to lose weight, it really doesn't matter. Most of us don't just want to lose weight, we want to look good, be energetic, be effective at work, etc.

7. (tacit, but important) For most people, weight loss is not a single, unique goal. It is "I want to lose weight to...":

Look better, be a better athlete, feel happier, be healthier. Those factors need to be considered in addition to the caloric deficit. But make no mistake, it's the deficit that governs the mechanism of weight gain or loss.

wow. That was an articulate well thought answer. If I was your teacher, I'd give you an A. Thanks

fatfudgery

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.


:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Poppycock! Haven't you seen all those commercials with the morbidly obese starving children in Guatemala or whatever?

ninerbuff

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

Macronutrients matter for body composition purposes. Micronutrients effect health. And mostly, because satiety, preference, and gym performance are significantly important variables and these will all be impacted by food selection.

None of this changes the fact that calories are fundamentally responsible for changes in weight.

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

Too many questions to address here but suffice it to say that none of this changes the fact that energy balance is fundamentally responsible for changes in weight. Hormonal issues can effect energy balance.

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

See my response to question 1 as this is basically addressed.

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

Once again see question 1. You're presenting scenarios that don't remotely resemble real life dieting scenarios. There's a grey area that most people land in.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

Meal frequency doesn't have a significant effect on metabolism.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

Will it work for what?

I'll just let you keep debunking some of the broscience. I'll tag in later.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition