Calories in vs. calories out?
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Ironically, the OP mentioned hormonal imbalance as part of the reason CICO may not work for weight loss. I don't disagree with that, however when mentioning fitness competition, there is NO MENTION that more than 85% aren't doing it naturally. Most are juiced or are taking drugs to bulk/cut.In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.
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If you don't eat, you will lose weight. Does anyone disagree?0
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I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.
Because no one would buy a book consisting of a short paragraph.
So why so many threads and forum is the answer is calories in,<calories out.
Because it's the correct answer.
You if we were exact twins and ate the same amount of calories. You ate all your calories in fast food burgers. I ate mine in fruits, veggies, and lean meats. Who will look better? Better question who would die earlier due to a health related issue?
Again, for weight loss CICO rules. For health and body composition there are other factors. No one is arguing there isn't.
As for who would die first of health related complications - that is impossible to answer. While food can affect health there are numerous other variables that can come in to play.0 -
I agree that starvation does not cause weight gain. You never saw a fat anorexic. The problem though with starvation, and I've seen this personally, and how it can cause weight gain, is when someone starves to lose weight, then as soon as they get to their target weight, they start eating more again, it seems the weight goes back on twice as fast it came off. I don't know the science behind it, and probably no once can prove one way or the other, but I know I've seen it in myself. I suspect the body basically panics because it has been deprived of food very quickly, then stores extra to reserve for the next time it is starved. Obviously I cannot prove this though. Of course, if you were just to eat very little indefinitely, you wouldn't have that problem. Yo Yo diets can't be good for your health or metabolism.I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.
:
May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?
No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.
Poppycock! Haven't you seen all those commercials with the morbidly obese starving children in Guatemala or whatever?0 -
That is very true, but of course there are all-natural competitors, actors and models.
Ironically, the OP mentioned hormonal imbalance as part of the reason CICO may not work for weight loss. I don't disagree with that, however when mentioning fitness competition, there is NO MENTION that more than 85% aren't doing it naturally. Most are juiced or are taking drugs to bulk/cut.In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I'll just let you keep debunking some of the broscience. I'll tag in later.Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.
Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.
1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?
Macronutrients matter for body composition purposes. Micronutrients effect health. And mostly, because satiety, preference, and gym performance are significantly important variables and these will all be impacted by food selection.
None of this changes the fact that calories are fundamentally responsible for changes in weight.
2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?
Too many questions to address here but suffice it to say that none of this changes the fact that energy balance is fundamentally responsible for changes in weight. Hormonal issues can effect energy balance.3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?
See my response to question 1 as this is basically addressed.4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?
Once again see question 1. You're presenting scenarios that don't remotely resemble real life dieting scenarios. There's a grey area that most people land in.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.
Meal frequency doesn't have a significant effect on metabolism.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/91554946. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?
Will it work for what?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Speaking of "broscience", when I first started posting in this forum, I had no idea what SideSteel and others were harping on. I thought they were attacking strawmen since obviously "broscience" was a made up thing and no one would actually make such arguments. I just want to say, I was wrong.0 -
I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.
Because no one would buy a book consisting of a short paragraph.
So why so many threads and forum is the answer is calories in,<calories out.
Because it's the correct answer.
You if we were exact twins and ate the same amount of calories. You ate all your calories in fast food burgers. I ate mine in fruits, veggies, and lean meats. Who will look better? Better question who would die earlier due to a health related issue?
There is no guarantee of an answer. There is not even a guarantee that you will lose the same amount if you both start at exactly the same weight and eat exactly the deficit.0 -
Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.
Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.
1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?
Just wanted to respond to this one.
I am hungry a lot... so in order to best satisfy that hunger, I have learned to spend my calories more wisely. On days when I know I cannot exercise (and must stay within 2000), I will try to avoid the chocolates and donuts, potatoes and bread... and eat way more chicken (because it is more filling for the calories).
On days when I have a crazy boxing burn... I break out the bread, cheese, donuts, cookies and ice cream.
For me, it is all about budgeting my calories.
But in the end... CICO is the only way I managed to lose my last ten pounds.0 -
Of course, but unlike their juiced counterparts, they HAVE to rely on calories in/out much more due to the disadvantage. So why eat "cleaner" before a competition? For 2 main reasons.................higher volume of food can be eaten and because that's what all competitors seem to do.
That is very true, but of course there are all-natural competitors, actors and models.
Ironically, the OP mentioned hormonal imbalance as part of the reason CICO may not work for weight loss. I don't disagree with that, however when mentioning fitness competition, there is NO MENTION that more than 85% aren't doing it naturally. Most are juiced or are taking drugs to bulk/cut.In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Competitive bodybuilders scarf up food like it's no tomorrow in the offseason. If a calorie dense food with good nutritional value was used to prep, I'm betting the results would be similar. So why don't they? Because usually calorie dense foods mean SMALLER PORTIONS and less eating.
I'm sure you've heard of many competitors "peaking" after the mandatory "after competition" binge? They look better after eating a bunch of pizza, hamburgers, fast food, etc. than when they were on stage. Why is that? The food wasn't "cleaner".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.
Because people don't want to hear "eat less, move more" (thus all the myths and magical fixes mentioned on this site).0 -
Of course, but unlike their juiced counterparts, they HAVE to rely on calories in/out much more due to the disadvantage. So why eat "cleaner" before a competition? For 2 main reasons.................higher volume of food can be eaten and because that's what all competitors seem to do.
That is very true, but of course there are all-natural competitors, actors and models.
Ironically, the OP mentioned hormonal imbalance as part of the reason CICO may not work for weight loss. I don't disagree with that, however when mentioning fitness competition, there is NO MENTION that more than 85% aren't doing it naturally. Most are juiced or are taking drugs to bulk/cut.In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Competitive bodybuilders scarf up food like it's no tomorrow in the offseason. If a calorie dense food with good nutritional value was used to prep, I'm betting the results would be similar. So why don't they? Because usually calorie dense foods mean SMALLER PORTIONS and less eating.
I'm sure you've heard of many competitors "peaking" after the mandatory "after competition" binge? They look better after eating a bunch of pizza, hamburgers, fast food, etc. than when they were on stage. Why is that? The food wasn't "cleaner".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
There was an awful lot of chocolate and peanut butter being consumed backstage pre-comp by the guys.
A figure friend competitor went out and ate McDonalds before getting on stage because she was looking "flat".(she won)0 -
The yo-yo effect has been studied before. If I recall correctly, the scientific explanation for why you regain more quickly and regain more than your original weight is because you lose lean muscle mass when dieting. I.e., the first time you're at 300lbs you may be 200lbs of muscle and 100lbs of fat. The second time you rebound to 300lbs you may be 180lbs of muscle and 120lbs of fat. Your BMR in the first case is higher. This is one reason resistance training is touted for weight loss to preserve muscle mass.The problem though with starvation, and I've seen this personally, and how it can cause weight gain, is when someone starves to lose weight, then as soon as they get to their target weight, they start eating more again, it seems the weight goes back on twice as fast it came off. I don't know the science behind it, and probably no once can prove one way or the other0 -
I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.
Because people don't want to hear "eat less, move more" (thus all the myths and magical fixes mentioned on this site).
Eat less, move more is a really simple concept. But really hard for many to embrace and implement. It means pushing yourself physically (not a good thing in today's "serve me" mentality). It means self control in terms of food (again, not really embraced in today's "I want it all" "I must be happy" society).
It is simple.
But not easy.
And people want easy. Pop this pill? easy.
Where do I sign up for that pill?0 -
there are a lot of knowledgable people on. If you want, would you post on another post of mine entitled "getting muscular without adding calories"0
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yes actually. Good point. I've experienced that myself. After really cutting calories for a while then eating a pizza and waking up looking cut as H
Of course, but unlike their juiced counterparts, they HAVE to rely on calories in/out much more due to the disadvantage. So why eat "cleaner" before a competition? For 2 main reasons.................higher volume of food can be eaten and because that's what all competitors seem to do.
That is very true, but of course there are all-natural competitors, actors and models.
Ironically, the OP mentioned hormonal imbalance as part of the reason CICO may not work for weight loss. I don't disagree with that, however when mentioning fitness competition, there is NO MENTION that more than 85% aren't doing it naturally. Most are juiced or are taking drugs to bulk/cut.In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Competitive bodybuilders scarf up food like it's no tomorrow in the offseason. If a calorie dense food with good nutritional value was used to prep, I'm betting the results would be similar. So why don't they? Because usually calorie dense foods mean SMALLER PORTIONS and less eating.
I'm sure you've heard of many competitors "peaking" after the mandatory "after competition" binge? They look better after eating a bunch of pizza, hamburgers, fast food, etc. than when they were on stage. Why is that? The food wasn't "cleaner".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
there are a lot of knowledgable people on. If you want, would you post on another post of mine entitled "getting muscular without adding calories"
I guess that'll work if your calorie intake is at an adequate level to begin with so you wouldn't have to add calories.0 -
I would like to know that if there is such a simple way calories in< calories out where is this bestseller book at? Why is he/she not the richest person in the world.
Because people don't want to hear "eat less, move more" (thus all the myths and magical fixes mentioned on this site).
Eat less, move more is a really simple concept. But really hard for many to embrace and implement. It means pushing yourself physically (not a good thing in today's "serve me" mentality). It means self control in terms of food (again, not really embraced in today's "I want it all" "I must be happy" society).
It is simple.
But not easy.
And people want easy. Pop this pill? easy.
Where do I sign up for that pill?
I will sell you some magic belly fat melting lemon water for $29.990 -
There is a couple great books on it but they will never be best sellers because people just cant let themselves believe it so simple.
http://evidencemag.com/flexible-dieting-book/0 -
Not uncommon just before competitors step on stage. Again why not brown rice, chicken and vegetables or "clean" food?
Of course, but unlike their juiced counterparts, they HAVE to rely on calories in/out much more due to the disadvantage. So why eat "cleaner" before a competition? For 2 main reasons.................higher volume of food can be eaten and because that's what all competitors seem to do.
That is very true, but of course there are all-natural competitors, actors and models.
Ironically, the OP mentioned hormonal imbalance as part of the reason CICO may not work for weight loss. I don't disagree with that, however when mentioning fitness competition, there is NO MENTION that more than 85% aren't doing it naturally. Most are juiced or are taking drugs to bulk/cut.In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Competitive bodybuilders scarf up food like it's no tomorrow in the offseason. If a calorie dense food with good nutritional value was used to prep, I'm betting the results would be similar. So why don't they? Because usually calorie dense foods mean SMALLER PORTIONS and less eating.
I'm sure you've heard of many competitors "peaking" after the mandatory "after competition" binge? They look better after eating a bunch of pizza, hamburgers, fast food, etc. than when they were on stage. Why is that? The food wasn't "cleaner".
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
There was an awful lot of chocolate and peanut butter being consumed backstage pre-comp by the guys.
A figure friend competitor went out and ate McDonalds before getting on stage because she was looking "flat".(she won)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
well said about the c in c out theory0
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