Help! how to lean out?

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  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
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    Who said she was doing distance running?
    I can't see anything?
    Sprinters tend to be muscular.
    While running long distances can lead to some muscle loss, it's more than to be good at it, you need the lowest weight possible and that means as little muscle as possible.

    Long distance running with inadequate nutrition IS the sort of workout that may lead to muscle loss, as it goes.
    I doubt it was specifically related, but when I did a 32 mile trail ultramarathon while at a deficit (I did carb load the day before and ate plenty that day and the day after), I knocked 10% off my squats, which didn't recover until my 1000 calorie deficit was tapered off.
    I suspect it was more down to fatigue and inadequate resources for recovery, however.

    For the record, OP, the consensus on MFP is that you are allowed to:
    Be happy being fat.
    Desire to be muscular.

    You are absolutely not 'allowed' to desire a slim and non-muscular look from what I've seen

    I'm lucky enough that I'm a reasonably large framed bloke that suits a muscular look.

    Just as, all so often 'fat shaming' gets all sorts of vitriol, from the very people that are happy to 'skinny shame'.

    Yeahhhh. Telling someone who is 55kg and 5'6" and has admitted in other threads to having issues with food and feeling back about eating 1400 or so calories that they probably aren't bulky/probably don't need to lose weight is totally skinny shaming. You've totally got this figured out: it's not that she sounds like she has an unhealthy relationship with food it's that we all want her to be fat or muscular.



    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1298075-help-did-i-eat-too-much (the thread where the OP says they feel guilty about 1382 calories and is worried it will make fat grow.)
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    Who said she was doing distance running?
    I can't see anything?
    Sprinters tend to be muscular.
    While running long distances can lead to some muscle loss, it's more than to be good at it, you need the lowest weight possible and that means as little muscle as possible.

    Long distance running with inadequate nutrition IS the sort of workout that may lead to muscle loss, as it goes.
    I doubt it was specifically related, but when I did a 32 mile trail ultramarathon while at a deficit (I did carb load the day before and ate plenty that day and the day after), I knocked 10% off my squats, which didn't recover until my 1000 calorie deficit was tapered off.
    I suspect it was more down to fatigue and inadequate resources for recovery, however.

    For the record, OP, the consensus on MFP is that you are allowed to:
    Be happy being fat.
    Desire to be muscular.

    You are absolutely not 'allowed' to desire a slim and non-muscular look from what I've seen

    I'm lucky enough that I'm a reasonably large framed bloke that suits a muscular look.

    Just as, all so often 'fat shaming' gets all sorts of vitriol, from the very people that are happy to 'skinny shame'.

    Soooo....you read all this and what you hit from it is that you think the OP is a sprinter?

    She's saying that she's got bulky abductors....at 5'5" and 110 pounds and she would like to find a way to atrophy her already very thin thighs to the point where no abductors are visible. Does this sound reasonable to you?
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    is totally skinny shaming.
    If you take the time to read my post you'll note that I prefaced that sentence with 'just as', the intention was to separate that from this subject, by presenting it as another example.
    She says her unhealthy relationship with food is in relation to eating too much, not eating too little.
    I know that pretty much all my problems with food are in relation to eating too much, HOWEVER, very occasionally I have had feelings of guilt and so on from overeating when trying to maintain a deficit.

    Looking at the thread you linked to, it seems she took the advice offered and was happy with it - specifically stating she had 'freaked out' in the situation from feeling full, which she wasn't so used to. Overall seems a fairly reasoned and sensible response.

    And yes for the rest, more interpretation without the facts ;).
    Soooo....you read all this and what you hit from it is that you think the OP is a sprinter?
    Not at all. I was, as it goes, criticising those that DO jump to conclusions. I would expect she's a mid distance jogger - like the vast, vast (myself included) majority of people that 'run'.
    I was giving another extreme example to balance the extreme examples already given. For your average person doing *some* running, it's quite likely they will increase muscle size a bit, I'd say - certainly from what I've seen.
    I presume you're not seriously suggesting you believed she was an actual 'long distance runner' that specifically focused on doing the best she could in marathons and longer events?

    I don't like to pass judgement on people's desires for their own body image.
    For instance, I'm not a fan of the vast majority of piercings and tattoos - but I don't go telling people it's bad to want to look like that.
    I WAS pointing out that, as your post reinforces; around here there are some things that are considered unacceptable - wanting less muscle is one of them. I wasn't particularly offering a commentary on that point - it is what it is and I'm not going to be the one to try and change it, as noted by the way that this system happens to work just fine for me.
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
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    is totally skinny shaming.
    If you take the time to read my post you'll note that I prefaced that sentence with 'just as', the intention was to separate that from this subject, by presenting it as another example.
    She says her unhealthy relationship with food is in relation to eating too much, not eating too little.
    I know that pretty much all my problems with food are in relation to eating too much, HOWEVER, very occasionally I have had feelings of guilt and so on from overeating when trying to maintain a deficit.

    Looking at the thread you linked to, it seems she took the advice offered and was happy with it - specifically stating she had 'freaked out' in the situation from feeling full, which she wasn't so used to. Overall seems a fairly reasoned and sensible response.

    And yes for the rest, more interpretation without the facts ;).

    I think you should find a thread with someone who doesn't have clear signs of disordered eating to try and make your 'MFP doesn't support being slim' statement, or at least take the five minutes to look through the OP's post history (Where shes admitted to having issues with food, being in recovery, that she shouldn't be trying to lose weight) before assuming that other people lack facts. Some of us clearly know about things not spoke about in this thread and have based our views on that.

    It isn't that people are against her being 'slim' it's that she's already slim and wants to be slimmer at the cost of muscle mass. No one is saying 'you have to build more muscle or be muscular' they're saying 'being willing to sacrifice muscle for the sake of weighing 5kg less isn't healthy'. If you really think that supporting people no matter what is more important that supporting healthy tendencies and mentalities well...hey, that's all you.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    Who said she was doing distance running?
    I can't see anything?
    Sprinters tend to be muscular.
    While running long distances can lead to some muscle loss, it's more than to be good at it, you need the lowest weight possible and that means as little muscle as possible.

    Long distance running with inadequate nutrition IS the sort of workout that may lead to muscle loss, as it goes.
    I doubt it was specifically related, but when I did a 32 mile trail ultramarathon while at a deficit (I did carb load the day before and ate plenty that day and the day after), I knocked 10% off my squats, which didn't recover until my 1000 calorie deficit was tapered off.
    I suspect it was more down to fatigue and inadequate resources for recovery, however.

    For the record, OP, the consensus on MFP is that you are allowed to:
    Be happy being fat.
    Desire to be muscular.

    You are absolutely not 'allowed' to desire a slim and non-muscular look from what I've seen

    I'm lucky enough that I'm a reasonably large framed bloke that suits a muscular look.

    Just as, all so often 'fat shaming' gets all sorts of vitriol, from the very people that are happy to 'skinny shame'.

    Nice use of hyperbole in place of fact on your part.

    Eating 1400 calories is not overeating for a 5'6" still developing teenager .... "bulky" does not happen with the type eating and exercise she claims to do " my problem is, i have trouble sticking to a regular workout routine, like in a whole week i might go once or twice for a 30 minute jog and do some ab exercises but nothing that will make big change. " (note, no sprinting mentioned) ... so basically her own words discredit every you've stated in several poorly thought out posts.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    is totally skinny shaming.
    If you take the time to read my post you'll note that I prefaced that sentence with 'just as', the intention was to separate that from this subject, by presenting it as another example.
    She says her unhealthy relationship with food is in relation to eating too much, not eating too little.
    I know that pretty much all my problems with food are in relation to eating too much, HOWEVER, very occasionally I have had feelings of guilt and so on from overeating when trying to maintain a deficit.

    Looking at the thread you linked to, it seems she took the advice offered and was happy with it - specifically stating she had 'freaked out' in the situation from feeling full, which she wasn't so used to. Overall seems a fairly reasoned and sensible response.

    And yes for the rest, more interpretation without the facts ;).
    Soooo....you read all this and what you hit from it is that you think the OP is a sprinter?
    Not at all. I was, as it goes, criticising those that DO jump to conclusions. I would expect she's a mid distance jogger - like the vast, vast (myself included) majority of people that 'run'.
    I was giving another extreme example to balance the extreme examples already given. For your average person doing *some* running, it's quite likely they will increase muscle size a bit, I'd say - certainly from what I've seen.
    I presume you're not seriously suggesting you believed she was an actual 'long distance runner' that specifically focused on doing the best she could in marathons and longer events?

    I don't like to pass judgement on people's desires for their own body image.
    For instance, I'm not a fan of the vast majority of piercings and tattoos - but I don't go telling people it's bad to want to look like that.
    I WAS pointing out that, as your post reinforces; around here there are some things that are considered unacceptable - wanting less muscle is one of them. I wasn't particularly offering a commentary on that point - it is what it is and I'm not going to be the one to try and change it, as noted by the way that this system happens to work just fine for me.

    So the answer is YES, you do believe that being 5'5" & 100 pounds is a reasonable goal for the OP. Got it.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    I think you should find a thread with someone who doesn't have clear signs of disordered eating to try and make your 'MFP doesn't support being slim' statement, or at least take the five minutes to look through the OP's post history (Where shes admitted to having issues with food, being in recovery, that she shouldn't be trying to lose weight) before assuming that other people lack facts. Some of us clearly know about things not spoke about in this thread and have based our views on that.
    Disordered eating? You're suggesting that I shouldn't discuss things on a website made SPECIFICALLY to help people with disordered eating by bringing order to it with anyone with 'disordered eating'? Unfortunately I'd also have to avoid discussing it in my own threads too.

    I've looked through the OPs history now and the one post I hadn't seen before isn't particularly relevant.

    I don't see anything about being in recovery from an eating disorder relating to eating too LITTLE - the suggestion seems to be getting over eating too MUCH - something a lot of us have come from (says me that ate 4000 calories today, intentionally - but I've also had decent periods where either all the time (a while ago) or on alternate days (recently) my calorie goal was similar to the OP's, despite me being a much larger bloke. Didn't see anyone making a fuss over that.

    And yes, again you're making my point :laugh: on this site you are now allowed to want /less/ muscle. That is the point I was making - so we agree? ;)

    By the way, if you've got some decent science back up it not being 'healthy', I'd love to see it. Though I haven't suggested it IS nor isn't healthy - merely that it's a taboo on this site, to which it seems you agree.


    brianpperkins :
    Who said 1400 calories WAS overeating?
    I certainly wouldn't say that because I don't believe that.
    Again, I was offering the opposite of the similarly ridiculous (I would suggest) comments about long distance running - when it turns out the only distance mentioned is 30 minutes :laugh:.

    As you apparently like facts and not 'hyperbole' perhaps you could take the time to READ my post, then point out where what I've said is 'discredited'.

    I do apologise that I obviously didn't make it clear that enough that I was using an opposing example, rather than specifically describing the situation of the OP - next time I'll try and use a flashing sign or something? ;)
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    So the answer is YES, you do believe that being 5'5" & 100 pounds is a reasonable goal for the OP. Got it.

    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    You jumped straight to your conclusion in one nice little hop there.

    Nice going!

    Wait, no.
    Not at all. I was, as it goes, criticising those that DO jump to conclusions.

    That's actually just what I think is stupid.

    ;)
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    Also, again, I should note that people ARE agreeing with me, it seems?

    It's just that they don't like that I'm saying it out loud?
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
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    I think you should find a thread with someone who doesn't have clear signs of disordered eating to try and make your 'MFP doesn't support being slim' statement, or at least take the five minutes to look through the OP's post history (Where shes admitted to having issues with food, being in recovery, that she shouldn't be trying to lose weight) before assuming that other people lack facts. Some of us clearly know about things not spoke about in this thread and have based our views on that.
    Disordered eating? You're suggesting that I shouldn't discuss things on a website made SPECIFICALLY to help people with disordered eating by bringing order to it with anyone with 'disordered eating'? Unfortunately I'd also have to avoid discussing it in my own threads too.

    I've looked through the OPs history now and the one post I hadn't seen before isn't particularly relevant.

    I don't see anything about being in recovery from an eating disorder relating to eating too LITTLE - the suggestion seems to be getting over eating too MUCH - something a lot of us have come from (says me that ate 4000 calories today, intentionally - but I've also had decent periods where either all the time (a while ago) or on alternate days (recently) my calorie goal was similar to the OP's, despite me being a much larger bloke. Didn't see anyone making a fuss over that.

    And yes, again you're making my point :laugh: on this site you are now allowed to want /less/ muscle. That is the point I was making - so we agree? ;)

    By the way, if you've got some decent science back up it not being 'healthy', I'd love to see it. Though I haven't suggested it IS nor isn't healthy - merely that it's a taboo on this site, to which it seems you agree.


    brianpperkins :
    Who said 1400 calories WAS overeating?
    I certainly wouldn't say that because I don't believe that.
    Again, I was offering the opposite of the similarly ridiculous (I would suggest) comments about long distance running - when it turns out the only distance mentioned is 30 minutes :laugh:.

    As you apparently like facts and not 'hyperbole' perhaps you could take the time to READ my post, then point out where what I've said is 'discredited'.

    I do apologise that I obviously didn't make it clear that enough that I was using an opposing example, rather than specifically describing the situation of the OP - next time I'll try and use a flashing sign or something? ;)

    I don't know what I find more amazing: That you think someone is 5'6" and 55kg because they have issues over eating (That's the very cusp over underweight by BMI) or that you think my issue with someone being willing to cut muscle mass to be at an underweight BMI proves your point that MFP is anti muscle. If the OP was overweight or obese and was willing to drop muscle to get to a healthy spot I wouldn't say a word but when someone so desires having a certain number that is medically underweight that cutting muscle mass seems A-ok then warning bells do go off. You're trying to ignore context, or shape the context to suit your point, and I just don't get it.

    I suggested that you find a different thread for your soapbox because in this one you're dealing with someone who everyone but you seems to think has some issues she needs to work on and trying to make a broader point. The OP isn't the person for you to piggy back your point off of. You wanna get mad at Skinny Shaming fine, I'd be the first person to cheer you on (I've personally called out all manners of body shaming on this site, skinny shaming included) but I don't think this is the place for 'broader' points.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    Also, again, I should note that people ARE agreeing with me, it seems?

    It's just that they don't like that I'm saying it out loud?

    are you hearing voices? or am i misreading what everyone else is saying? perhaps i'm misreading what you're saying? but i don't think so. you seem to be on some general rant about what the "people of MFP" will come down on, even if it's to the detriment of this young woman.

    perhaps you'd like to put her goals into a BMI calculator? Here's one:

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/bmi-calculator/itt-20084938

    and of course there are dozens of others. put her current height and weight into one, then put her goal weight into it, and then tell us what it said both times. go ahead and do it, I'll wait



    Now that you've seen the results, are you going to accuse internet based BMI calculators of......doing whatever it is that you're claiming that we're doing.....jumping to conclusions or skinny shaming or being upset that she doesn't want to be all muscular or sumpthin? seriously, i don't even know.
  • thesupremeforce
    thesupremeforce Posts: 1,207 Member
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    Normally, I avoid this sort of topic, but OP, if what you're trying to do was your "body's normal weight," wouldn't you already be there? You certainly wouldn't be resorting to begging for suggestions on how to atrophy your muscles in order to become lighter and thereby more "proportional."

    Given your height and weight, I'm skeptical that "eating too much" is a common issue with you.
  • bbunny95
    bbunny95 Posts: 18 Member
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    >I do not have eating disorders!!!<
    I'm just trying to mantain my weight, when i say i have an unhealthy relationship with food i mean that sometimes i over eat, and sometimes i eat crap!! (my normal diet being vegetarian, most of the things i eat are very low calorie!!so when i eat crap i'm not used to i worry!!) And i worry about it because i worry about my weight as most teenage girls would, yes i did write a post in wich i worried about my calorie intake, because i felt really full after dinner and was worried that it would get into fat or something because i was going to sleep, i don't eat alot not because i'm restricting or anything like that, i eat when i'm hungry, when i'm not i don't! That's it!
    and oh my god people if i knew there would be such scandal over a little post like this i wouldn't have written it i would have simply googled leaning exercises for thighs or something like that lol!
    Seriously guys, my natural weight has always been 50 (KILOGRAMS),most of the weight that i have on now is from the muscles on my legs that yes are muscular and they're not with any atrophy or anything, they're just short muscles.. and guess what i'm not a long distance runner, i run fast for about 30 minutes and that's probably building muscle, you are all worrying alot about me i appreciate that i really do, but seriously WHYYY?!?! I regret this post
  • randomtai
    randomtai Posts: 9,003 Member
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    The first step is admitting you have a problem. I am just gonna leave this here:

    1-858-481-1515
    National Eating Disorder Referral and Information Center
    International treatment referrals and prevention information
    edreferral@edreferral.com


    1-800-931-2237
    National Eating Disorders Association
    International treatment referrals and information
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    Very simply; I was making the OP aware that MFP in general doesn't like 'this sort of thing' - wanting to have less muscle.
    That IS the way it is, yes? I don't think anyone is disagreeing?
    I did not say any more than that. - and I did not offers reasons why - whether I believe it was for justifiable reasons or not.

    Instead of putting her details in to the BMI calculator, I put my own in.
    It says I'm on the very cusp of being overweight.
    I'm trying to gain weight. I ate 4400 calories today and the only cardio I did was a quick cycle ride to the shops (to get more ice cream - I ate both tubs.)

    But, that's all ok by MFP standards, as far as I'm aware.

    Despite the fact that if you plug these figures in to internet calculators they'd likely throw a fit ;).

    I certainly wasn't suggesting MFP was anti-muscle. I was suggesting they are anti-anti-muscle.

    For the record, I generally prefer women with sportier 'toned' bodies over the ultra-skinny.
    That's my preference, though it's not like attraction is anywhere near such an exact science.
    I am also well aware that much of society presents unhealthy ideals - be it ultra-skinny women, or blokes that are unsustainably low body fat and water levels who take large amounts of anabolic steroids to get the muscles we see popping out due to said lack of fat and water.

    That doesn't mean I'll criticise people's personal choices about how they would like to look / live their lives - plenty of things I do for my own pleasure will likely cause me long term issues (like my right leg which got badly broken when I came down from 20' up or so at some speed after hitting a tyre wall when my brakes failed in a motorcycle race.).
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    >I do not have eating disorders!!!<
    I'm just trying to mantain my weight, when i say i have an unhealthy relationship with food i mean that sometimes i over eat, and sometimes i eat crap!! (my normal diet being vegetarian, most of the things i eat are very low calorie!!so when i eat crap i'm not used to i worry!!) And i worry about it because i worry about my weight as most teenage girls would, yes i did write a post in wich i worried about my calorie intake, because i felt really full after dinner and was worried that it would get into fat or something because i was going to sleep, i don't eat alot not because i'm restricting or anything like that, i eat when i'm hungry, when i'm not i don't! That's it!
    and oh my god people if i knew there would be such scandal over a little post like this i wouldn't have written it i would have simply googled leaning exercises for thighs or something like that lol!
    Seriously guys, my natural weight has always been 50 (KILOGRAMS),most of the weight that i have on now is from the muscles on my legs that yes are muscular and they're not with any atrophy or anything, they're just short muscles.. and guess what i'm not a long distance runner, i run fast for about 30 minutes and that's probably building muscle, you are all worrying alot about me i appreciate that i really do, but seriously WHYYY?!?! I regret this post

    you're (allegedly) 18 years old. you don't have a natural weight (whatever that even is) yet.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    you're (allegedly) 18 years old. you don't have a natural weight (whatever that even is) yet.
    This; I would agree with.

    A lot of young women do end up wanting to keep the teenager figure they've got, which is much portrayed in the media (whether that's the chicken or the egg is another matter) - and for many some extra 'curves' are unavoidable due to genetics - in years gone by these would have been seen as positive attributes, but not the current fashion.
  • bbunny95
    bbunny95 Posts: 18 Member
    Options
    The first step is admitting you have a problem. I am just gonna leave this here:

    1-858-481-1515
    National Eating Disorder Referral and Information Center
    International treatment referrals and prevention information
    edreferral@edreferral.com


    1-800-931-2237
    National Eating Disorders Association
    International treatment referrals and information

    are you serious? lol just lol
    thanks for that awesome help lol
  • PJPrimrose
    PJPrimrose Posts: 916 Member
    Options
    The first step is admitting you have a problem. I am just gonna leave this here:

    1-858-481-1515
    National Eating Disorder Referral and Information Center
    International treatment referrals and prevention information
    edreferral@edreferral.com


    1-800-931-2237
    National Eating Disorders Association
    International treatment referrals and information


    Ditto: Dang we get a lot of this going on here!
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
    Options
    >I do not have eating disorders!!!<
    I'm just trying to mantain my weight, when i say i have an unhealthy relationship with food i mean that sometimes i over eat, and sometimes i eat crap!! (my normal diet being vegetarian, most of the things i eat are very low calorie!!so when i eat crap i'm not used to i worry!!) And i worry about it because i worry about my weight as most teenage girls would, yes i did write a post in wich i worried about my calorie intake, because i felt really full after dinner and was worried that it would get into fat or something because i was going to sleep, i don't eat alot not because i'm restricting or anything like that, i eat when i'm hungry, when i'm not i don't! That's it!
    and oh my god people if i knew there would be such scandal over a little post like this i wouldn't have written it i would have simply googled leaning exercises for thighs or something like that lol!
    Seriously guys, my natural weight has always been 50 (KILOGRAMS),most of the weight that i have on now is from the muscles on my legs that yes are muscular and they're not with any atrophy or anything, they're just short muscles.. and guess what i'm not a long distance runner, i run fast for about 30 minutes and that's probably building muscle, you are all worrying alot about me i appreciate that i really do, but seriously WHYYY?!?! I regret this post

    you're (allegedly) 18 years old. you don't have a natural weight (whatever that even is) yet.

    This. So much this.

    And don't even getting me started on building muscle while eating 1300 calories a day

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