NEWSFLASH: McDonald’s existed back when I was a kid
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Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.
Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.
Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.
And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....
Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.
Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.
Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.
Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.
Yes, you can choose that.
Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.
No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.
Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.
You're right. It is easy to understand.
Actually... many people at McD's are. That's why you see so many changes, such as... salads... heck, mcd's out here were selling steamed broccoli for a while. Strange bright green supersize broccoli, but that's par for the course.
Ok. So then what's your point? They are meeting their consumers needs. Customers still want burgers and fries, and they provide that, too. What more do you want from them? A complete overhaul of the menu? Customers will need to demand it in mass and that's not happening at the moment.
Do you want more consumers to rise up and demand the change?
I'm saying that personal responsibility is an easy thing to say, but people who have more of a social consciousness also try to look out for people who don't have access to the same information as them and also try to demand better options for everyone. It doesn't hurt the company to make stuff that is better for consumers. They will sell any crap if people don't stand up for themselves and each other.
You said that the McDonalds near you "were selling" steamed broccoli...I'm guessing they aren't now?
Also...in this day and age, how does anyone not have access to the same information. Practically everyone has cell phones. Libraries have computers people can use for free...
It's not that everyone doesn't have access to the same info, some just don't care and if they did, they would find the information. Again, it all comes down to personal responsibility.0 -
I think maybe you don't enjoy critically looking at problems. Which is fine, but McDonalds is part of the cheap fast food that is making people obese - it's unhealthy food that is cheap. They do have some duty towards their customers not to feed them crap. Yes, McDonalds existed when you were a kid. People became more and more obese during your lifetime so far.
Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movements are similar.
It's possible to lose weight, but there's no known cure for conservatism/libertarianism/whatever it is that stops you seeing things in context. As Stephen Colbert pointed out, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
Cheap food is the problem? So, all we need is for grocery stores and restaurants to raise their prices, and obesity will end? Sorry all that will do is make people broke, as well as obese.
1. Restaurants are made to sell food, and make money. Not control your diet.
2. Television is meant to entertain, sell advertisement time, and make money. Not educate. Not babysit your kids.
3. Toy stores are meant to sell toys, and make money. Not babysit your kids, not keep your kids safe.
Life is about choices. America is supposed to be about freedom. I enjoy having the choice to make an unhealthy choice once in a while. I also enjoy making a healthier choice of cooking for myself and knowing what is in my food, and the work it took.
Your view is simplistic. Making everything expensive isn't the answer. Making nutritious food affordable is the solution food activists want. Yes, it's your choice. But a poor family doesn't have many choices. They should be able to afford enough fresh food to feed their family and meet their nutritional needs. But that's not the way it is. Mac & Cheese, processed soups, rice, potatoes, etc. are their options. Carbs & Starches. Nary a green to be seen because it's expensive. Fast food falls into the realm of cheap, processed food. Most calorie for your buck.0 -
Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.
Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.
Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.
And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....
Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.
Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.
Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.
Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.
Yes, you can choose that.
Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.
No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.
Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.
You're right. It is easy to understand.
Actually... many people at McD's are. That's why you see so many changes, such as... salads... heck, mcd's out here were selling steamed broccoli for a while. Strange bright green supersize broccoli, but that's par for the course.
Ok. So then what's your point? They are meeting their consumers needs. Customers still want burgers and fries, and they provide that, too. What more do you want from them? A complete overhaul of the menu? Customers will need to demand it in mass and that's not happening at the moment.
Do you want more consumers to rise up and demand the change?
I'm saying that personal responsibility is an easy thing to say, but people who have more of a social consciousness also try to look out for people who don't have access to the same information as them and also try to demand better options for everyone. It doesn't hurt the company to make stuff that is better for consumers. They will sell any crap if people don't stand up for themselves and each other.
Don't have access? The calories are POSTED on the menus both inside and at the drive thru. Do you really believe that people who are fat are clueless as to how they go there or how to get thinner? They know both and the plain truth is: THEY DON'T CARE.
The McDonald's close to me has a full grocery store right across the parking lot. It would take no more time and less money to go there and buy a prepared green salad with low fat dressing in lieu of a McDonald's meal. And yet, many people CHOOSE to forgo the salad. I'd bet you a million bucks that each and every one of them knows the salad has less calories and is healthier than the Big Mac, large fries and large soft drink.0 -
It's really sad that your idea of freedom means zero corporate responsibility to consumers.
Who helped to get you the information that let you know that McDonalds is not a healthy option?
Also, toy companies aren't supposed to make toys that put your kids in danger!
What kind of a weird consumer hell do you live in?!
You act like there are these saviors of the common people working behind the scenes to get calorie counts on McDonald's menus, when in reality McDonald's made a business decision to include this information because the public demand for this information rose to the point where it made sense for McDonald's to update their menus. It's basic supply and demand, rather than some sort of nutritional white knight riding to save the day. Moreover, equating food at McDonald's to unsafe toys (e.g., lead-based paint) shows how jaded your perspective on this issue is. I suppose you also hate television manufacturers because some people sit around watching too much television rather than walking. Actually, by your logic, we should hate automobile manufacturers because they allow people to walk/bike less often, thus potentially contributing to weight gain. Let's just make it so that no one can make any product or provide any service that has the potential to be misused or abused. That way, we can have absolutely no personal responsibility whatsoever and we'll all be happy!0 -
I am a big believer that if everyone minded their OWN business, the world would be an amazingly happy place.
And because this is too awesome not to share
OMGS! Thank you! That was definitely, too awesome not to share. Lol
You're welcome. I saw that and was like holy awesomeness!0 -
Now of course, that is a very broad generalization about government programs and has nothing to do with McDonald's. I feel bad for McDonald's. They are the go-to scapegoat for the "big bad fast food monsters". No one demonizes Taco Bell or Subway like they do McDonald's.
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McDonalds doesn't get hurt feelings or even lose money by making healthier products.
Do you work in the finance department at McDs?
Well that would be an interesting twist!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...NO.
Which means you probably haven't run a cost benefit analysis on each individual healthier item sold at McDs, cross checked by state (if we are being pretty general, otherwise each store) and country? And, then you probably also haven't run a cost benefit analysis of integrating the healthier items in the meal choices providing that's what consumers even want. Per the latter point, this is debatable considering the fact that McDs has struggled to sell it's healthier products...
And I'm going to out there on a limb and say you haven't a cost benefit analysis of a total menu overhaul....
Considering you haven't done all this, I'm pretty sure you can't confidently say that McDs doesn't stand to lose money by making healthier products.
You're making a completely speculative argument in favour of McDs profits, and you're willing to make those assumptions because you want to even avoid risk to McDs profits, on the basis that McDs profits are more important than the human beings who eat their food.
What a strange argument.
Well, it's sure as heck a lot better than making a naive and unsupported claim that the company doesn't lose money on its healthy products. Just because I pointed out that you have no basis for knowing what they do and do not make money from, doesn't make it a strange argument. It's not even an argument, I'm merely pointing out that you can't really use that point because you don't really know...
And, yes, I believe that it's important for companies to be profitable. It's important to the employees, it's important to the tax payers and it's important to the shareholders.
I am pretty confident that McD's has crunched every number that there is to crunch against the forecasted demand for certain products. If they can't make it work because the demand isn't there, that's not their problem.0 -
The difference between back in the day and now is that it was a treat to go to McDonald's or fast food places and today it's dinner. I have very active boys so they pretty much burn it off, but I have been and am guilty of just grabbing the fast food because it's late, we are just getting out of practice and blah blah blah, but I would never blame the establishment. So while the boys are ok for now, i look like a beached whale, but i'm working on that. I don't have to eat the big mac I can get the wrap.0
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I agree fully with the OP. The root cause of so many problems in America today is the refusal, by many, to take any personal responsibility. Too many people spend their lives looking for someone else to blame, or someone to sue. We all have choices in life. We have to make choices hundreds of times every day. If you make the wrong choice it is on you, not on society or some corporation ... deal with it!
But I don't want to be responsible for myself! I want the government to control those evil businesses!0 -
For the "McDonald's is EVIL crowd":
You do realize that if you went to a small corner mom-and-pop restaurant and ordered burgers and fries....you'd still be eating the same amount of calories right that you'd get at McD's right? You do realize you'd still get fat if you did that every day right?
I would like you to frame this argument replacing McDonald's with the faces of those Southern Moms and Pops that serve fried porkbellies, chitlins, ribs, corncobs soaked in transfat "butter."
Go and get your protest face on and "occupy" the street corners in front of those restaurants. Call them evil. Thought not. It's just a lot easier to "occupy" evil, faceless companies.
Nobody is saying any of that though.
... I mean, you are I guess, but you're trying to say other people are saying those things and nobody is. Nobody has called for a boycott of McDonalds, even, except the people who say that it's unhealthy so just don't eat there instead of asking them to change.
Okay, maybe you're not calling for a boycott; but you're certainly holding McD's to a higher standard than your average mom and pops as evidenced by what you posted earlier....
"Companies have some responsibility to consumers. For example, they can't poison you. The next step is to ask them not to serve ridiculously processed crap to people. No, people don't have to eat it, but removing responsibility from the company is ridiculous. Or, to put it another way, Republican."
Or were you including every locally owned restaurant as part of your argument when you say "companies?"
That's an interesting angle.
Locally owned restaurants should obviously not serve crap either, but then that's for that local community to focus on, learn about and lobby together.
McDonalds is a global issue, so the global community reacts to it.
Again ... no. The choice to eat fast food or not is personal. The choice to drink large or small beverages is personal. The portion size I buy is a personal choice as well.
The only reason why you know that is IN the food, the only reason you know the information you can use to educate yourself, is because people more socially conscious than you have been working hard to make McDonalds more accountable to the consumer.
You can eat whatever you want. You have more of a choice because people are spreading information.
To put it simply, how do you get the information you use to base your personal choices from? Why does McDonalds give a lot more information and serve more salads now?
Educating myself is a personal responsibility. Congratulations, you're now arguing with yourself as well.
Salads were on the McDonalds menu before you were born ... yet they still account for less than 3% of sales. Fish appeared on their menu in 1962. Your definition of "now" is as misguided as your rants.
You, sir, are either deliberately twisting my words or haven't understood what you've read.0 -
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this ^^^I think maybe you don't enjoy critically looking at problems. Which is fine, but McDonalds is part of the cheap fast food that is making people obese - it's unhealthy food that is cheap. They do have some duty towards their customers not to feed them crap. Yes, McDonalds existed when you were a kid. People became more and more obese during your lifetime so far.
Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movements are similar.
It's possible to lose weight, but there's no known cure for conservatism/libertarianism/whatever it is that stops you seeing things in context. As Stephen Colbert pointed out, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
Nobody forces you to eat fast food. Just saying0 -
Actually, McDonald's earnings are shrinking and they have been making efforts to change their menu. With that said, I HATE McDonald's. My kids love it. The get it as a treat every once in awhile.
But I agree with some posters that this is not a black and white argument. The problem with cheap, processed, carb heavy foods like McD's is that you get the most calorie for your buck. Not nutrition. But it fills bellies and for the poor, it's a viable option and they are more likely to eat there 2-3 times a day because it's cheap food that makes you feel full whereas the brussels sprouts at the grocery are almost $4 per pound (non-organic). I'm lucky that I can afford healthy, nutritious food for my kids. I do not judge those who can't. I just think that there is some gray area that a lot of the posters on this thread don't recognize. Personal responsibility yes. Does McDonald's 'make' people fat, no. Are they part of a system that benefits from the high cost of healthy food and decreasing real wages of the middle class, yes. I'm guessing most of the personal responsibility people also hate Obamacare. People gonna be needing it if we can't make real food more affordable.
It annoys me when people assume someone's political opinions on other issues issues based on their opinion on one single issue.
It also annoys me when people on the internet, a worldwide medium, assume everyone is American or that everywhere else in the world is just like America.
I'm British, I support the arguments for taking personal responsibility for the health outcomes of lifestyle decisions, and not blaming companies that sell so-called "junk" foods (no-one's forced to eat those foods and it's totally possible to eat them in moderation and stay healthy)... and I also support the NHS (national health service, which is free to all British residents) and hope no government gets rid of it or runs it into the ground. I have no opinion on obamacare because I'm not American. I think it's pretty bad that so many Americans are going without healthcare, for both minor and major health issues, because they can't afford it - I have no idea whether obamacare will successfully address that problem or not, but I hope it or something similar can do that.
^Right. On.
People making broad assumptions about people's overall political views based on one issue are what's wrong with civil debate in this country.
I can definitely agree with this.
Yup. What on earth does that have to do with ANYTHING.
I'm all about personal responsibility and I support Obamacare. Not that one has anything to do with the other.0 -
Your view is simplistic. Making everything expensive isn't the answer. Making nutritious food affordable is the solution food activists want. Yes, it's your choice. But a poor family doesn't have many choices. They should be able to afford enough fresh food to feed their family and meet their nutritional needs. But that's not the way it is. Mac & Cheese, processed soups, rice, potatoes, etc. are their options. Carbs & Starches. Nary a green to be seen because it's expensive. Fast food falls into the realm of cheap, processed food. Most calorie for your buck.
If you're very poor, you also can't afford to see the top specialists or live in the nicest neighborhoods or drive the safest cars. That's the consequence of being poor and why the American dream is about working hard to better yourself. That said, I don't buy that you can't eat anything other than mac, canned soup, potatoes and the like on a budget. Frozen vegetables are dirt cheap - they just aren't as tasty as a McDouble. That we live in a world where poor people have so much access to cheap food that they're getting fat and that's not good enough for you, while people elsewhere in the world are literally starving, really says something.
And it still has nothing to do with people becoming obese - you can eat Mac & Cheese on a daily basis and lose weight. No matter how you slice it, eating at maintenance or at a caloric deficit is cheaper than eating at a caloric surplus.0 -
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.0
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :drinker:0 -
Your view is simplistic. Making everything expensive isn't the answer. Making nutritious food affordable is the solution food activists want. Yes, it's your choice. But a poor family doesn't have many choices. They should be able to afford enough fresh food to feed their family and meet their nutritional needs. But that's not the way it is. Mac & Cheese, processed soups, rice, potatoes, etc. are their options. Carbs & Starches. Nary a green to be seen because it's expensive. Fast food falls into the realm of cheap, processed food. Most calorie for your buck.
If you're very poor, you also can't afford to see the top specialists or live in the nicest neighborhoods or drive the safest cars. That's the consequence of being poor and why the American dream is about working hard to better yourself. That said, I don't buy that you can't eat anything other than mac, canned soup, potatoes and the like on a budget. Frozen vegetables are dirt cheap - they just aren't as tasty as a McDouble. That we live in a world where poor people have so much access to cheap food that they're getting fat and that's not good enough for you, while people elsewhere in the world are literally starving, really says something.
And it still has nothing to do with people becoming obese - you can eat Mac & Cheese on a daily basis and lose weight. No matter how you slice it, eating at maintenance or at a caloric deficit is cheaper than eating at a caloric surplus.
you obviously haven't heard of food deserts where grocery stores do not exist within a reasonable distance.0 -
Now of course, that is a very broad generalization about government programs and has nothing to do with McDonald's. I feel bad for McDonald's. They are the go-to scapegoat for the "big bad fast food monsters". No one demonizes Taco Bell or Subway like they do McDonald's.
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McDonalds doesn't get hurt feelings or even lose money by making healthier products.
Do you work in the finance department at McDs?
Well that would be an interesting twist!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...NO.
Which means you probably haven't run a cost benefit analysis on each individual healthier item sold at McDs, cross checked by state (if we are being pretty general, otherwise each store) and country? And, then you probably also haven't run a cost benefit analysis of integrating the healthier items in the meal choices providing that's what consumers even want. Per the latter point, this is debatable considering the fact that McDs has struggled to sell it's healthier products...
And I'm going to out there on a limb and say you haven't a cost benefit analysis of a total menu overhaul....
Considering you haven't done all this, I'm pretty sure you can't confidently say that McDs doesn't stand to lose money by making healthier products.
You're making a completely speculative argument in favour of McDs profits, and you're willing to make those assumptions because you want to even avoid risk to McDs profits, on the basis that McDs profits are more important than the human beings who eat their food.
What a strange argument.
Well, it's sure as heck a lot better than making a naive and unsupported claim that the company doesn't lose money on its healthy products. Just because I pointed out that you have no basis for knowing what they do and do not make money from, doesn't make it a strange argument. It's not even an argument, I'm merely pointing out that you can't really use that point because you don't really know...
And, yes, I believe that it's important for companies to be profitable. It's important to the employees, it's important to the tax payers and it's important to the shareholders.
I am pretty confident that McD's has crunched every number that there is to crunch against the forecasted demand for certain products. If they can't make it work because the demand isn't there, that's not their problem.
Your attitude towards consumers is duly noted.
Reforming McDonalds instead of doing what you told me to do if I didn't like it, which was to stay away, actually preserves more jobs. If people want to eat healthy and can eat healthier there, then they will go there.
Frankly, we've had this argument before. on page 9.0 -
For the "McDonald's is EVIL crowd":
You do realize that if you went to a small corner mom-and-pop restaurant and ordered burgers and fries....you'd still be eating the same amount of calories right that you'd get at McD's right? You do realize you'd still get fat if you did that every day right?
I would like you to frame this argument replacing McDonald's with the faces of those Southern Moms and Pops that serve fried porkbellies, chitlins, ribs, corncobs soaked in transfat "butter."
Go and get your protest face on and "occupy" the street corners in front of those restaurants. Call them evil. Thought not. It's just a lot easier to "occupy" evil, faceless companies.
Nobody is saying any of that though.
... I mean, you are I guess, but you're trying to say other people are saying those things and nobody is. Nobody has called for a boycott of McDonalds, even, except the people who say that it's unhealthy so just don't eat there instead of asking them to change.
Okay, maybe you're not calling for a boycott; but you're certainly holding McD's to a higher standard than your average mom and pops as evidenced by what you posted earlier....
"Companies have some responsibility to consumers. For example, they can't poison you. The next step is to ask them not to serve ridiculously processed crap to people. No, people don't have to eat it, but removing responsibility from the company is ridiculous. Or, to put it another way, Republican."
Or were you including every locally owned restaurant as part of your argument when you say "companies?"
That's an interesting angle.
Locally owned restaurants should obviously not serve crap either, but then that's for that local community to focus on, learn about and lobby together.
McDonalds is a global issue, so the global community reacts to it.
Again ... no. The choice to eat fast food or not is personal. The choice to drink large or small beverages is personal. The portion size I buy is a personal choice as well.
The only reason why you know that is IN the food, the only reason you know the information you can use to educate yourself, is because people more socially conscious than you have been working hard to make McDonalds more accountable to the consumer.
You can eat whatever you want. You have more of a choice because people are spreading information.
To put it simply, how do you get the information you use to base your personal choices from? Why does McDonalds give a lot more information and serve more salads now?
Educating myself is a personal responsibility. Congratulations, you're now arguing with yourself as well.
Salads were on the McDonalds menu before you were born ... yet they still account for less than 3% of sales. Fish appeared on their menu in 1962. Your definition of "now" is as misguided as your rants.
You, sir, are either deliberately twisting my words or haven't understood what you've read.
Sadly, I understand your drivel. Luckily, you have time to grow, mature, and get a clue.0 -
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
I'm far from rich, they do have computers at a library...or they can actually ask McDonald's for the nutritional information. It has nothing to do with money or lack of it. If they want to know they will educate themselves.0 -
Is it the McDonalds making people fat or the invention of the Xbox and playstation? When I was a kid we used to ride bikes and play outside for fun. Now in my neighborhood no one rides their bike or plays ball in their yards anymore because they are all busy playing with video games. Fast food in moderation is ok but if people are eating a 1300 calorie value meal for lunch everyday then sitting around its' bound to make you obese. It happened to me!!! McDonalds and Taco bell didn't make me fat, I did by eating it and sitting on my lazy *kitten*!! Last time I treated myself to fast food I rode my bike there then around my neighborhood.0
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McDonald's existed when I was a kid, too. We went twice a year.
My mother had the time to grow her own vegetable garden, she spent hours in the kitchen chopping, mixing, cooking. She had been taught how to cook by her mother and she knew every short cut (and way to stretch a buck) possible.
Many women work outside the home now.They are up at 6 a.m., pick up the kids from daycare or afterschool, drive them home, face an evening of making dinner, doing laundry, supervising homework (which could just be a matter of letting the kids sit at the dining room table while they work.)
Stopping at McDonald's on the way home means that there is one less task, which means there is time for the endless number of tasks that most women have.
Single Dad here and I cook almost every night for my kids and still find time to train for Marathons or whatever other silly task I chose to indulge myself in. I get what I feel is plenty of time with my kids and somehow find time to keep myself healthy and feed my kids healthy food. I get up at 5 AM every morning and I am asleep at 10PM (or close to it) every night. I am about to start my MBA and I am only doing that because I feel I have the time to do so after my kids get into bed at the end of the day.0 -
For the "McDonald's is EVIL crowd":
You do realize that if you went to a small corner mom-and-pop restaurant and ordered burgers and fries....you'd still be eating the same amount of calories right that you'd get at McD's right? You do realize you'd still get fat if you did that every day right?
I would like you to frame this argument replacing McDonald's with the faces of those Southern Moms and Pops that serve fried porkbellies, chitlins, ribs, corncobs soaked in transfat "butter."
Go and get your protest face on and "occupy" the street corners in front of those restaurants. Call them evil. Thought not. It's just a lot easier to "occupy" evil, faceless companies.
Nobody is saying any of that though.
... I mean, you are I guess, but you're trying to say other people are saying those things and nobody is. Nobody has called for a boycott of McDonalds, even, except the people who say that it's unhealthy so just don't eat there instead of asking them to change.
Okay, maybe you're not calling for a boycott; but you're certainly holding McD's to a higher standard than your average mom and pops as evidenced by what you posted earlier....
"Companies have some responsibility to consumers. For example, they can't poison you. The next step is to ask them not to serve ridiculously processed crap to people. No, people don't have to eat it, but removing responsibility from the company is ridiculous. Or, to put it another way, Republican."
Or were you including every locally owned restaurant as part of your argument when you say "companies?"
That's an interesting angle.
Locally owned restaurants should obviously not serve crap either, but then that's for that local community to focus on, learn about and lobby together.
McDonalds is a global issue, so the global community reacts to it.
Again ... no. The choice to eat fast food or not is personal. The choice to drink large or small beverages is personal. The portion size I buy is a personal choice as well.
The only reason why you know that is IN the food, the only reason you know the information you can use to educate yourself, is because people more socially conscious than you have been working hard to make McDonalds more accountable to the consumer.
You can eat whatever you want. You have more of a choice because people are spreading information.
To put it simply, how do you get the information you use to base your personal choices from? Why does McDonalds give a lot more information and serve more salads now?
Educating myself is a personal responsibility. Congratulations, you're now arguing with yourself as well.
Salads were on the McDonalds menu before you were born ... yet they still account for less than 3% of sales. Fish appeared on their menu in 1962. Your definition of "now" is as misguided as your rants.
You, sir, are either deliberately twisting my words or haven't understood what you've read.
Sadly, I understand your drivel. Luckily, you have time to grow, mature, and get a clue.
That's very mature yourself there! Thanks for trying to deliberately twist my words, you were good but the guy who actually made up a quote did better.0 -
It's not that Stella Liebek was too stupid to know that the coffee was hot, it was the THIRD DEGREE BURNS on her lap she suffered from when it spilt. Now I like hot coffee but it doesn't take a genius to realize that her coffee was heated to excess. She had to spend 8 days in the hospital -what an idiot. ????
All that aside, yes, people need to learn portion control.0 -
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
I'm far from rich, they do have computers at a library...or they can actually ask McDonald's for the nutritional information. It has nothing to do with money or lack of it. If they want to know they will educate themselves.
I'm not rich either. I'm talking about people with nothing - which if you had ever walked in those shoes or even knew someone close to you who lived this life, you'd have a little more empathy. I see it every day and it breaks my heart to see hungry kids when my biggest problem is losing weight. hungry kids who are obese by the way because they don't get nutritious food - they get over-processed, calorie laden foods.0 -
Jim Gaffigan's McDonald's Sketch is the BEST.0
-
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
This.
I also am involved in these communities, though I live the kind of life which gives me an array of options.
Drive through a low income neighborhood. What you'll see: Popeyes', 7-11, McDonald's. What you don't see: Full service grocery stores.
If you're living on minimum wage, you're not driving to the grocery, because every penny counts...and gas costs money. If you're standing on your feet all day, you're priority is getting home, feeding you family, and recovering from your day.
Many people in this country work 2 to 3 jobs just to stay ahead of eviction. They live in neighborhoods so unsafe that they are afraid to let their kids go outdoors. Cell phones? Computers? Many of these families don't even have adequate clothing for cold weather.0 -
In...
...just in.
ETA: My food diary has a lot of McDoubles...because relatively high protein, low price, and convenient.0 -
For the "McDonald's is EVIL crowd":
You do realize that if you went to a small corner mom-and-pop restaurant and ordered burgers and fries....you'd still be eating the same amount of calories right that you'd get at McD's right? You do realize you'd still get fat if you did that every day right?
I would like you to frame this argument replacing McDonald's with the faces of those Southern Moms and Pops that serve fried porkbellies, chitlins, ribs, corncobs soaked in transfat "butter."
Go and get your protest face on and "occupy" the street corners in front of those restaurants. Call them evil. Thought not. It's just a lot easier to "occupy" evil, faceless companies.
Nobody is saying any of that though.
... I mean, you are I guess, but you're trying to say other people are saying those things and nobody is. Nobody has called for a boycott of McDonalds, even, except the people who say that it's unhealthy so just don't eat there instead of asking them to change.
Okay, maybe you're not calling for a boycott; but you're certainly holding McD's to a higher standard than your average mom and pops as evidenced by what you posted earlier....
"Companies have some responsibility to consumers. For example, they can't poison you. The next step is to ask them not to serve ridiculously processed crap to people. No, people don't have to eat it, but removing responsibility from the company is ridiculous. Or, to put it another way, Republican."
Or were you including every locally owned restaurant as part of your argument when you say "companies?"
That's an interesting angle.
Locally owned restaurants should obviously not serve crap either, but then that's for that local community to focus on, learn about and lobby together.
McDonalds is a global issue, so the global community reacts to it.
Again ... no. The choice to eat fast food or not is personal. The choice to drink large or small beverages is personal. The portion size I buy is a personal choice as well.
The only reason why you know that is IN the food, the only reason you know the information you can use to educate yourself, is because people more socially conscious than you have been working hard to make McDonalds more accountable to the consumer.
You can eat whatever you want. You have more of a choice because people are spreading information.
To put it simply, how do you get the information you use to base your personal choices from? Why does McDonalds give a lot more information and serve more salads now?
Educating myself is a personal responsibility. Congratulations, you're now arguing with yourself as well.
Salads were on the McDonalds menu before you were born ... yet they still account for less than 3% of sales. Fish appeared on their menu in 1962. Your definition of "now" is as misguided as your rants.
You, sir, are either deliberately twisting my words or haven't understood what you've read.
Sadly, I understand your drivel. Luckily, you have time to grow, mature, and get a clue.
That's very mature yourself there! Thanks for trying to deliberately twist my words, you were good but the guy who actually made up a quote did better.
Where did I twist your words? You keep ranting how McDonalds has all of these responsibilities then claim people need to educate themselves ... an inherently personal responsibility. You keep saying they sell salads "now" when they've been on the menu for three decades (and still lag at under 3% of sales for the company illustrating that McDonalds customers choose the food you see as bad).
You blame the company, not the customers who drive corporate decisions. You then accuse others of twisting your words when what you keep saying gets trumped by logic, fact, and reality.0 -
Now of course, that is a very broad generalization about government programs and has nothing to do with McDonald's. I feel bad for McDonald's. They are the go-to scapegoat for the "big bad fast food monsters". No one demonizes Taco Bell or Subway like they do McDonald's.
[/quote
McDonalds doesn't get hurt feelings or even lose money by making healthier products.
Do you work in the finance department at McDs?
Well that would be an interesting twist!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...NO.
Which means you probably haven't run a cost benefit analysis on each individual healthier item sold at McDs, cross checked by state (if we are being pretty general, otherwise each store) and country? And, then you probably also haven't run a cost benefit analysis of integrating the healthier items in the meal choices providing that's what consumers even want. Per the latter point, this is debatable considering the fact that McDs has struggled to sell it's healthier products...
And I'm going to out there on a limb and say you haven't a cost benefit analysis of a total menu overhaul....
Considering you haven't done all this, I'm pretty sure you can't confidently say that McDs doesn't stand to lose money by making healthier products.
You're making a completely speculative argument in favour of McDs profits, and you're willing to make those assumptions because you want to even avoid risk to McDs profits, on the basis that McDs profits are more important than the human beings who eat their food.
What a strange argument.
Well, it's sure as heck a lot better than making a naive and unsupported claim that the company doesn't lose money on its healthy products. Just because I pointed out that you have no basis for knowing what they do and do not make money from, doesn't make it a strange argument. It's not even an argument, I'm merely pointing out that you can't really use that point because you don't really know...
And, yes, I believe that it's important for companies to be profitable. It's important to the employees, it's important to the tax payers and it's important to the shareholders.
I am pretty confident that McD's has crunched every number that there is to crunch against the forecasted demand for certain products. If they can't make it work because the demand isn't there, that's not their problem.
Your attitude towards consumers is duly noted.
Reforming McDonalds instead of doing what you told me to do if I didn't like it, which was to stay away, actually preserves more jobs. If people want to eat healthy and can eat healthier there, then they will go there.
Frankly, we've had this argument before. on page 9.
But they HAVE made changes that people have demanded. They ARE trying to make everyone happy. The free market DOES work.
But that doesn't mean they should have to do things that make them lose money. They need to make money. In order to make money, they need to tweak supply chain, test new products, market new products and so much more. That's why it's not happening over night.
You can't have it all your way, right away.
Unless of course, you go to Burger King.0 -
Your view is simplistic. Making everything expensive isn't the answer. Making nutritious food affordable is the solution food activists want. Yes, it's your choice. But a poor family doesn't have many choices. They should be able to afford enough fresh food to feed their family and meet their nutritional needs. But that's not the way it is. Mac & Cheese, processed soups, rice, potatoes, etc. are their options. Carbs & Starches. Nary a green to be seen because it's expensive. Fast food falls into the realm of cheap, processed food. Most calorie for your buck.
If you're very poor, you also can't afford to see the top specialists or live in the nicest neighborhoods or drive the safest cars. That's the consequence of being poor and why the American dream is about working hard to better yourself. That said, I don't buy that you can't eat anything other than mac, canned soup, potatoes and the like on a budget. Frozen vegetables are dirt cheap - they just aren't as tasty as a McDouble. That we live in a world where poor people have so much access to cheap food that they're getting fat and that's not good enough for you, while people elsewhere in the world are literally starving, really says something.
And it still has nothing to do with people becoming obese - you can eat Mac & Cheese on a daily basis and lose weight. No matter how you slice it, eating at maintenance or at a caloric deficit is cheaper than eating at a caloric surplus.
you obviously haven't heard of food deserts where grocery stores do not exist within a reasonable distance.
You do realize there are places in the world where you have to hunt your own food and if you do not get it then you go hungry that day right. People cover extraordinary distances to get food. You said something about 5 miles to the grocery store in an eralier post being far away. Really it comes down to the perspective of what every person feels is far or not. I run 5 miles in a little over 40 mins during training so if I had to run to a store that was five miles away to get food because that was the only place to get it I bet I would go five miles to get my groceries. Just saying it is still a choice in what you eat. In our culture of instant everything maybe people need to realize that it wasn't always like that and that others in this world don't have that and they get by fine.0
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