NEWSFLASH: McDonald’s existed back when I was a kid
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I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
Please stop. Advocating personal responsibility and worrying about food availability are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people here who support consumers taking responsibility to educate themselves, reading the nutrition information that is available in stores and has been well before Super Size Me, and make choices about what to put in their bodies when it comes to fast food also do things like volunteer in and donate to food pantries, help run community gardens, and are active voices in helping people who live in food deserts or have food insecurity.
I do not deny personal responsibility, but your responsibility is limited by your choices.
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...0 -
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!!
when I was at university, I had about five pounds a week to feed myself. It wasn't that long ago either (late 90s). Just because I have money now it doesn't mean I have no idea what it's like to try to live off very little.
I wasn't fat then. Actually I was pretty lean, seeing as the jobs I had to pay my way through university (ice steward at the local ice rink, delivering the mail) kept me thin. Plus having barely enough to eat... no danger of overeating because I couldn't afford to. On the rare occasions I went to McDonalds (couldn't afford it usually) I ordered 2 fillet o fish (the cheapest burger) because 2 of them was the same price as 1 burger + meal deal, but had twice as much protein and was more filling.
If poor people in the USA can only eat McDonalds, then that's a serious problem with the infrastructure in American society. It's bizarre that McDonalds is the most affordable option, or that people who don't have cars can't get to supermarkets to buy fresh produce. In the UK, there are cheap supermarkets like Lidl and Aldi that have small branches in residential areas, and they sell discounted fruit and veg and most people have at least one cheap supermarket in walking distance of their house. Plus there are buses, and while some places have better bus services than others, pretty much every city/town runs a daytime bus service to the centre of town. Maybe you have to live in London to have a night bus service, but most places you can get to the shopping centre during the daytime.
And most of the time I lived in the UK, I used to walk to the town centre to save money on bus fare (1-3 miles, depending on where I was living at the time). And when I was really poor at university, I bought fruit and veg from the local greengrocer (cheaper and easier than taking the bus to Tesco (a supermarket) and carrying all the shopping bags back from the bus stop). I got some staples from Kwik Save (a very cheap supermarket) and a few other places to take advantage of cheaper options. I walked to most places, only Tesco was a bus trip.
Also, there are ways for poor people to access computers in the UK... public libraries have free wifi and computers that can be used by anyone with a library card (which is free to residents in the area that the library is in).
Also, if McDonalds is only one of 2 meals a day that are being eaten by poor kids, then that's not going to make them obese... 2 meals a day isn't going to make any kid obese, especially if they have to walk everywhere because their parents don't have a car. So I don't really get how McDonalds is responsible for making poor people fat.... if the issue is accessability to a wider range of food choices, then there needs to be affordable public transport and some way to encourage cheaper supermarkets to have smaller outlets that serve residential communities. You can't blame McDonalds for the lack of public transports or affordable fresh food within walking distance of residential areas where poor people live.
I've lived abroad and Europe is much more pedestrian friendly as well as mass transit. If you live anywhere outside of the mega-metro areas in the US, there is no rail service, no buses, etc. And I'm not saying poverty makes people fat. It IS about choice, but it boils down to your CHOICES. And when your choices are hoofing it the 2 miles to the McDonald's or hoofing it the 5-10 miles to the grocery and it's 6 PM and your kids have school tomorrow and they are hungry now, which will you choose?
Walking one mile burns what like 100 calories??? so two miles there and two miles back would be like 4 so 400 calories. Take your kids with you and they will burn the same and then you can eat your McDonalds and not gain weight. I don't see how McDonalds being the only choice within walking distance of your house at 6PM at night is still contributing to making you fat. A kids cheeseburger meal is like 515 calories. You would have to go to McDonalds a ton of times in one day to gain weight there in that model of getting food.0 -
So, we went out to Steak n' Shake yesterday to celebrate our son's graduation from kindergarten. I ordered a peanut butter snickers shake knowing full well it was 700 calories. Yesterday was a really bad day food wise for me, but awesome otherwise. I ended the day exactly 700 calories over my goal. It kind of made me laugh.
My point is, I made the choice to order the shake. I enjoyed it, and I have no regrets. I'm glad we have yummy indulgent fast food places to visit when we want to celebrate. I don't blame them at all for my choices when I go there.
I think it's horrible that people rather blame someone else than take accountability for what they should have complete control over. No one can force anyone else to make bad food choices, and it's not the company's fault if people feel the need to indulge in their product every time they see their advertising. There are obese people I know who rarely eat "fast food". Not everyone who is overweight eats McDonalds.0 -
And I agree that McD's is the 'scapegoat' for all fast food because they are THE giant chain. When I talk about lack of accessibility to fresh food and only fast food options, I mean all fast-food. I also mean gas stations that serve up chips and hot dogs. Yes, eating less will help with obesity, but it doesn't have the nutrition kids need. I never said there was NO personal responsibility. if you go back a few pages, my response was pretty measured saying that yes, responsibility is needed. And no restaurant 'makes' anyone fat. BUT, it's when there are no other choices. It's a bigger problem than just saying eat here or don't eat there. It's a system that disproportionately affects the poor.
You seem to be confusing malnutrition with obesity. They simply aren't the same. While your point is valid in terms of malnutrition, it adds little to a discussion on obesity. As for disproportionately affecting the poor, again I'd have to say that's sad, true and just a fact of life. If you have more resources, you are going to have better options. That's true in terms of living in a safe neighborhood, eating nourishing food, and so on. But in terms of a discussion about blaming McDonald's for your own overconsumption, rather than taking responsibility for it yourself, I'm not really seeing how "food deserts" and malnourishment are relevant. But in my experience, most people that live in very rural areas don't eat chips and hot dogs at gas stations 3 times a day - they stock up on dried goods, canned goods, and the like on the seldom trips they take into town. If you choose to eat hot dogs nonstop, that's a personal choice but don't turn around and say you had to do it because of your economic status.0 -
I think maybe you don't enjoy critically looking at problems. Which is fine, but McDonalds is part of the cheap fast food that is making people obese - it's unhealthy food that is cheap. They do have some duty towards their customers not to feed them crap. Yes, McDonalds existed when you were a kid. People became more and more obese during your lifetime so far.
Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movements are similar.
It's possible to lose weight, but there's no known cure for conservatism/libertarianism/whatever it is that stops you seeing things in context. As Stephen Colbert pointed out, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
actually no they do not have any duty toward anyone, they are a private business. There only duty is to their owners and stockholders to make money.
Nobody is forcing anyone to patronize their restaurants, that is a CHOICE each individual makes.0 -
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
Please stop. Advocating personal responsibility and worrying about food availability are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people here who support consumers taking responsibility to educate themselves, reading the nutrition information that is available in stores and has been well before Super Size Me, and make choices about what to put in their bodies when it comes to fast food also do things like volunteer in and donate to food pantries, help run community gardens, and are active voices in helping people who live in food deserts or have food insecurity.
I do not deny personal responsibility, but your responsibility is limited by your choices.
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
AGAIN, so right on.
If the problem is a lack of accessible food, or means to get to accessible food, then it seems silly to me that we focus on one company (out of so many!). All this energy would be better spent developing plans for affordable grocery within walking distance of most communities, reliable PT systems, safe parks to play in and making time for recess and gym again in schools.0 -
And I agree that McD's is the 'scapegoat' for all fast food because they are THE giant chain. When I talk about lack of accessibility to fresh food and only fast food options, I mean all fast-food. I also mean gas stations that serve up chips and hot dogs. Yes, eating less will help with obesity, but it doesn't have the nutrition kids need. I never said there was NO personal responsibility. if you go back a few pages, my response was pretty measured saying that yes, responsibility is needed. And no restaurant 'makes' anyone fat. BUT, it's when there are no other choices. It's a bigger problem than just saying eat here or don't eat there. It's a system that disproportionately affects the poor.
I don't disagree with you - but I am curious what you believe to be the solution to this problem? Do you think it lies with the government, or restaurant chains, or elsewhere?
I think there are a number of things that need to happen. Big picture, It starts with infrastructure in poor neighborhoods. It means investing in schools. It means paying a living wage. It means owner-occupied housing - until those things happen, good luck luring in the grocer. It's not a simple answer. It's not a cheap answer. In fact, the problem is quite large. A good starting point for everyone here would be go in and volunteer to start a neighborhood garden in your local 'inner city' or impoverished neighborhood. Find resources to help fund the project. Teach people how to start seeds, how to plant, cultivate and harvest. Teach them how to prepare the fresh resources and how to can for the winter. Volunteer at a local high-poverty school to start a school garden. Encourage your state/local legislators to push for healthier food in school lunchrooms. Get kids to develop a taste for veggies instead of fast food. It's a huge problem that will only be solved by people demanding it.0 -
I agree with OP- it's how the parents raise the kids. My mom didn't let me have much Mickey D's at all growing up and it was considered a "treat". After 6 years of not eating at McDonalds, I had some of their chicken nuggets for lunch because it was cheap and I was in a hurry. Never again!! Such awful flavor I that I couldn't eat them, and the aftertaste stuck in my mouth for hours.
As for the "it's cheap and it's the only thing poor people can afford"- that's actually false. When I was in college I had $50 per week for food, and most of the time I came under that. How?
Real oatmeal (not instant)= $3.50
Dried beans= $1.50
Loaf of (wheat) bread= $2
Dozen eggs= $2
5 Cans of tuna= $5
Pasta= $0.80
Pasta sauce= $1
Gallon of milk= $2.60
3 lb bag of apples= $3.50
4 lbs chicken breast = $10
5 lbs frozen veggies= $5
Various condiments= $5
Instant rice= $2
Store brand nutrigrain bars= $2
Multipack of greek yogurt =$4
This is more than enough for 1 person for a week and before taxes comes to around $50. It's very filling AND if you were to do the same in Mickey D's, you'd have to spend about $2.38/meal to beat that. Even if you ordered only off the dollar menu, you probably would have more calories and fat and not feel as full.
It's certainly not easy living like that since you have to cook everything, but if you prep all of your meals on a Sunday and have them ready to go in your fridge, it's actually faster and easier to do it because then you don't even have to stop through the drive thru!
People have full responsibility of what they put in their mouths. The odd treat here and there isn't going to do any harm, but it's using that as a crutch that's a problem.0 -
I think you are wrong here. Actually, before joining MFP I might have agreed a little more, but it is shocking how many people know so little about nutrition.
And a "healthy diet" is easy to define. It's a diet that promotes good health. A diet of "healthy foods" that leads to obesity is not a heatlhy diet because obesity =/= good health. And it's very hard not to overeat on cheap crappy food, because cheap crappy food is not filling and leaves your body lacking in nutrition. So you hunger for more food.
Sure everyone knows if they eat too much they'll get fat. But not everyone know WHEN they are eating too much. How can they be hungry if they've eaten too much?
Of course McD is not to blame for the obesity epidemic, but to say that cheap, nutrient deficient, easily accessible food has played no role is oversimplifying the matter. Just as saying personal resposibiltiy is solely to blame is over simplifying the matter. There are so many factors at play.
Let's say you begin eating out more often and you put on 10 pounds over a few months. Your pants no longer fit or they're uncomfortable. What can you conclude from this? It doesn't matter if you've been hungry or not, the evidence is slapping you right in the face that you're eating too much, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. Some people will decide to cut weight at this point while others will buy new pants, but you can't tell me that people simply don't understand they're eating too much when they gain weight. They may not want to admit it, but I'm pretty sure everyone that's overweight or has been overweight knows deep down that they overconsumed and/or had some bad habits that got them there.
As for "cheap, nutrient deficient (arguable), easily accessible food" playing no role - I never said that. It DEFINITELY plays a huge role, as does our society's fixation with huge portion size. What I'm saying is that the responsibility for your health ultimately rests on your shoulders. A culture of big portions and cheap food definitely provides a lot of temptation for people to overeat, but that doesn't mean the food vendor is responsible for your weight and your health.
I have plenty of episodes where fast food became my reality and my pants shrank! I realized it was the fast food. Stupid delicious fast food. Um, I mean... "Yum. I love all health food exclusively and fast food is gross." (said me, never.) I love both. Fast food is easy and well, fast. It is a selection after a long day and no desire to cook.0 -
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
We really don't have that problem by and large. There might be a few isolated communities where people have more limited access to fresh foods, but that usually translates into them eating more canned and dried goods. Most people here don't take public transportation but then again most people have ample access to automobiles and cheap gasoline (if there aren't options within walking distance, which there usually are). I think you might be getting that impression due to some over-exaggeration in this thread and people wanting to make excuses for overdoing it at McD's.0 -
I like fries.... that is all, carry on.0
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I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
Please stop. Advocating personal responsibility and worrying about food availability are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people here who support consumers taking responsibility to educate themselves, reading the nutrition information that is available in stores and has been well before Super Size Me, and make choices about what to put in their bodies when it comes to fast food also do things like volunteer in and donate to food pantries, help run community gardens, and are active voices in helping people who live in food deserts or have food insecurity.
I do not deny personal responsibility, but your responsibility is limited by your choices.
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
AGAIN, so right on.
If the problem is a lack of accessible food, or means to get to accessible food, then it seems silly to me that we focus on one company (out of so many!). All this energy would be better spent developing plans for affordable grocery within walking distance of most communities, reliable PT systems, safe parks to play in and making time for recess and gym again in schools.
Completely agree. I conceded McD's is a scapegoat. But the bottom line is accessibility. What are YOU doing to make it accessible? I am a master gardener and volunteer for 5 inner city community gardens and consult on a school gardening project. But until everyone has access to healthy food, it means at this moment in time, their option is fast food. which means they aren't getting healthy food. And who supplies it? Who profits from it? It's a problem that is bigger than the fast food industry, but as i noted several pages back, they profit from an infrastructure that fails our kids.0 -
McDonald's existed when I was a kid, too. We went twice a year.
My mother had the time to grow her own vegetable garden, she spent hours in the kitchen chopping, mixing, cooking. She had been taught how to cook by her mother and she knew every short cut (and way to stretch a buck) possible.
Many women work outside the home now.They are up at 6 a.m., pick up the kids from daycare or afterschool, drive them home, face an evening of making dinner, doing laundry, supervising homework (which could just be a matter of letting the kids sit at the dining room table while they work.)
Stopping at McDonald's on the way home means that there is one less task, which means there is time for the endless number of tasks that most women have.
Same here. My parents had four kids. My mom stayed at home. We only ate McDonald's when we were on a trip and it was RARE. We always ate at home and my mom prepped groceries and meals like it was the end of the world (canning, gardening, etc.). We ate a lot of meat and potatoes.... a lot. It wasn't necessarily healthy but perhaps financially conservative. I love to cook but it can be exhausting. I have spent weekends prepping meals for the whole week. In the end, it is my decision about my time.0 -
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!!
when I was at university, I had about five pounds a week to feed myself. It wasn't that long ago either (late 90s). Just because I have money now it doesn't mean I have no idea what it's like to try to live off very little.
I wasn't fat then. Actually I was pretty lean, seeing as the jobs I had to pay my way through university (ice steward at the local ice rink, delivering the mail) kept me thin. Plus having barely enough to eat... no danger of overeating because I couldn't afford to. On the rare occasions I went to McDonalds (couldn't afford it usually) I ordered 2 fillet o fish (the cheapest burger) because 2 of them was the same price as 1 burger + meal deal, but had twice as much protein and was more filling.
If poor people in the USA can only eat McDonalds, then that's a serious problem with the infrastructure in American society. It's bizarre that McDonalds is the most affordable option, or that people who don't have cars can't get to supermarkets to buy fresh produce. In the UK, there are cheap supermarkets like Lidl and Aldi that have small branches in residential areas, and they sell discounted fruit and veg and most people have at least one cheap supermarket in walking distance of their house. Plus there are buses, and while some places have better bus services than others, pretty much every city/town runs a daytime bus service to the centre of town. Maybe you have to live in London to have a night bus service, but most places you can get to the shopping centre during the daytime.
And most of the time I lived in the UK, I used to walk to the town centre to save money on bus fare (1-3 miles, depending on where I was living at the time). And when I was really poor at university, I bought fruit and veg from the local greengrocer (cheaper and easier than taking the bus to Tesco (a supermarket) and carrying all the shopping bags back from the bus stop). I got some staples from Kwik Save (a very cheap supermarket) and a few other places to take advantage of cheaper options. I walked to most places, only Tesco was a bus trip.
Also, there are ways for poor people to access computers in the UK... public libraries have free wifi and computers that can be used by anyone with a library card (which is free to residents in the area that the library is in).
Also, if McDonalds is only one of 2 meals a day that are being eaten by poor kids, then that's not going to make them obese... 2 meals a day isn't going to make any kid obese, especially if they have to walk everywhere because their parents don't have a car. So I don't really get how McDonalds is responsible for making poor people fat.... if the issue is accessability to a wider range of food choices, then there needs to be affordable public transport and some way to encourage cheaper supermarkets to have smaller outlets that serve residential communities. You can't blame McDonalds for the lack of public transports or affordable fresh food within walking distance of residential areas where poor people live.
I've lived abroad and Europe is much more pedestrian friendly as well as mass transit. If you live anywhere outside of the mega-metro areas in the US, there is no rail service, no buses, etc. And I'm not saying poverty makes people fat. It IS about choice, but it boils down to your CHOICES. And when your choices are hoofing it the 2 miles to the McDonald's or hoofing it the 5-10 miles to the grocery and it's 6 PM and your kids have school tomorrow and they are hungry now, which will you choose?
The problem isn't McDonalds, it's the lack of choices, due to the lack of public transport and the lack of cheap supermarkets/grocery stores in poor residential areas.
If it's ten miles to the nearest grocery store and there's no public transport to get there, then that's crazy!! I don't understand how America has got itself into this mess really, because the cheap supermarkets in the UK are thriving businesses, not charities. Public transport in the UK is run by private business, although I think some of the less popular routes are subsidised to ensure that as many people as possible can access public transport. Really, THIS is the problem that needs to be addressed. Blaming McDonalds for it is crazy... expecting McDonalds, a private company, to address a serious social problem in the USA by making their menus more nutritionally balanced, is ridiculous.0 -
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
We really don't have that problem by and large. There might be a few isolated communities where people have more limited access to fresh foods, but that usually translates into them eating more canned and dried goods. Most people here don't take public transportation but then again most people have ample access to automobiles and cheap gasoline (if there aren't options within walking distance, which there usually are). I think you might be getting that impression due to some over-exaggeration in this thread and people wanting to make excuses for overdoing it at McD's.
Just to add to this point, while i do think food deserts are a real problem today, it won't be forever. Amazon already offers a ton of healthy grocery products and they are continuing to expand. It's only a matter of time until fresh vegetables and meats are offered. At that point, with free shipping, more food will be made more accessible to more people than ever before.0 -
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
We really don't have that problem by and large. There might be a few isolated communities where people have more limited access to fresh foods, but that usually translates into them eating more canned and dried goods. Most people here don't take public transportation but then again most people have ample access to automobiles and cheap gasoline (if there aren't options within walking distance, which there usually are). I think you might be getting that impression due to some over-exaggeration in this thread and people wanting to make excuses for overdoing it at McD's.
Yep.0 -
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
We really don't have that problem by and large. There might be a few isolated communities where people have more limited access to fresh foods, but that usually translates into them eating more canned and dried goods. Most people here don't take public transportation but then again most people have ample access to automobiles and cheap gasoline (if there aren't options within walking distance, which there usually are). I think you might be getting that impression due to some over-exaggeration in this thread and people wanting to make excuses for overdoing it at McD's.
I don't know where you live, but there aren't always options in walking distance. I live in Iowa. Rural poor. I don't make excuses for overdoing it at McD's - i freaking HATE McD's - not on principle - on taste. I'd rather have some roasted brussels sprouts than french fries any day. gimme some chipotle - i can get down with that (and they are owned by McD's). I guess I just get frustrated that people want to say people blame fast food for being fat. Well, maybe some people. But in a lot of cases, it's about accessibility. Again, I don't know where you live, but it sounds like a pretty middle class area. Good for you. Not everyone has your options.0 -
Bravo to the OP. Spot on...Thank you for writing this.0
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I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!!
when I was at university, I had about five pounds a week to feed myself. It wasn't that long ago either (late 90s). Just because I have money now it doesn't mean I have no idea what it's like to try to live off very little.
I wasn't fat then. Actually I was pretty lean, seeing as the jobs I had to pay my way through university (ice steward at the local ice rink, delivering the mail) kept me thin. Plus having barely enough to eat... no danger of overeating because I couldn't afford to. On the rare occasions I went to McDonalds (couldn't afford it usually) I ordered 2 fillet o fish (the cheapest burger) because 2 of them was the same price as 1 burger + meal deal, but had twice as much protein and was more filling.
If poor people in the USA can only eat McDonalds, then that's a serious problem with the infrastructure in American society. It's bizarre that McDonalds is the most affordable option, or that people who don't have cars can't get to supermarkets to buy fresh produce. In the UK, there are cheap supermarkets like Lidl and Aldi that have small branches in residential areas, and they sell discounted fruit and veg and most people have at least one cheap supermarket in walking distance of their house. Plus there are buses, and while some places have better bus services than others, pretty much every city/town runs a daytime bus service to the centre of town. Maybe you have to live in London to have a night bus service, but most places you can get to the shopping centre during the daytime.
And most of the time I lived in the UK, I used to walk to the town centre to save money on bus fare (1-3 miles, depending on where I was living at the time). And when I was really poor at university, I bought fruit and veg from the local greengrocer (cheaper and easier than taking the bus to Tesco (a supermarket) and carrying all the shopping bags back from the bus stop). I got some staples from Kwik Save (a very cheap supermarket) and a few other places to take advantage of cheaper options. I walked to most places, only Tesco was a bus trip.
Also, there are ways for poor people to access computers in the UK... public libraries have free wifi and computers that can be used by anyone with a library card (which is free to residents in the area that the library is in).
Also, if McDonalds is only one of 2 meals a day that are being eaten by poor kids, then that's not going to make them obese... 2 meals a day isn't going to make any kid obese, especially if they have to walk everywhere because their parents don't have a car. So I don't really get how McDonalds is responsible for making poor people fat.... if the issue is accessability to a wider range of food choices, then there needs to be affordable public transport and some way to encourage cheaper supermarkets to have smaller outlets that serve residential communities. You can't blame McDonalds for the lack of public transports or affordable fresh food within walking distance of residential areas where poor people live.
Exactly. Being poor is not an excuse to be obese. Should actually detract from obesity since you don't have the money to buy food.
You're right about poverty and obesity don't necessarily need to go together; however, your logic may be flawed. Have you ever been to a food pantry? Companies, people, etc give away all the CRAP. There is very few fruits and veggies and lean proteins. Everything is in a can and is accompanied by cheap snacks, white bread, hot dogs, etc. It is crap. However, one time while at homeless shelter, there was expired canned escargot. Is that a lean meat? It is exotic, I suppose.0 -
I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
Please stop. Advocating personal responsibility and worrying about food availability are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people here who support consumers taking responsibility to educate themselves, reading the nutrition information that is available in stores and has been well before Super Size Me, and make choices about what to put in their bodies when it comes to fast food also do things like volunteer in and donate to food pantries, help run community gardens, and are active voices in helping people who live in food deserts or have food insecurity.
I do not deny personal responsibility, but your responsibility is limited by your choices.
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
AGAIN, so right on.
If the problem is a lack of accessible food, or means to get to accessible food, then it seems silly to me that we focus on one company (out of so many!). All this energy would be better spent developing plans for affordable grocery within walking distance of most communities, reliable PT systems, safe parks to play in and making time for recess and gym again in schools.
Completely agree. I conceded McD's is a scapegoat. But the bottom line is accessibility. What are YOU doing to make it accessible? I am a master gardener and volunteer for 5 inner city community gardens and consult on a school gardening project. But until everyone has access to healthy food, it means at this moment in time, their option is fast food. which means they aren't getting healthy food. And who supplies it? Who profits from it? It's a problem that is bigger than the fast food industry, but as i noted several pages back, they profit from an infrastructure that fails our kids.
What do I do?! Well, since you ask, I'm the internal champion for a program that my company is very active in called Move for Hunger. We take unused pantry items from customers when they are moving and we deliver it to the local food banks and pantries. We love the program AND it ties is exceptionally well with our business model. That's a win-win for me.0 -
So, we went out to Steak n' Shake yesterday to celebrate our son's graduation from kindergarten. I ordered a peanut butter snickers shake knowing full well it was 700 calories. Yesterday was a really bad day food wise for me, but awesome otherwise. I ended the day exactly 700 calories over my goal. It kind of made me laugh.
My point is, I made the choice to order the shake. I enjoyed it, and I have no regrets. I'm glad we have yummy indulgent fast food places to visit when we want to celebrate. I don't blame them at all for my choices when I go there.
I think it's horrible that people rather blame someone else than take accountability for what they should have complete control over. No one can force anyone else to make bad food choices, and it's not the company's fault if people feel the need to indulge in their product every time they see their advertising. There are obese people I know who rarely eat "fast food". Not everyone who is overweight eats McDonalds.
Right!0 -
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
We really don't have that problem by and large. There might be a few isolated communities where people have more limited access to fresh foods, but that usually translates into them eating more canned and dried goods. Most people here don't take public transportation but then again most people have ample access to automobiles and cheap gasoline (if there aren't options within walking distance, which there usually are). I think you might be getting that impression due to some over-exaggeration in this thread and people wanting to make excuses for overdoing it at McD's.
Just to add to this point, while i do think food deserts are a real problem today, it won't be forever. Amazon already offers a ton of healthy grocery products and they are continuing to expand. It's only a matter of time until fresh vegetables and meats are offered. At that point, with free shipping, more food will be made more accessible to more people than ever before.
I think that's great - especially if local schools could host several computers for families to use. On the flip side, many of the poor and immigrant families I work with don't have bank accounts or credit cards. How would they purchase? Again, it's just not something a middle class person thinks about. I know I didn't until I started working with those populations. I was like how do you not have a bank account? money orders, going to the local utility company and paying cash, etc.0 -
I hate fast food. I didn't always but I do now. I guess my taste buds have changed. I can't remember the last time I had fast food. Also there are 5 of us in my family so it's not cheap either.
I'm on the fence a bit but overall I do not think companies have a responsibly to make things healthier. I think we have to do that. Also kids want fast food. My 10 year old asks for it all the time. We very rarely give in and usually it's Wendy's and they have salads, chili and baked potatoes to choose from. That being said, not many people who eat fast food, go there for the salads...0 -
Lets take a moment to realize that even in America when you "eat healthy" everything we have in grocery stores, fast food places, and some restaurants have mutated meat, vegetables, and even milk. Hormones, pesticide, fake cheese, every where we go there is crap to put in our bodies. The only way to be sure we aren't poisoning ourselves is to grow our own animals, fruits, and vegetables.
We live in an f*cked up world.
Stop.
Just. Stop.
Do you have ANY IDEA how blessed you are? How about being thankful you have something to eat?0 -
Where is Mayor McCheese these days?
He is in jail for money laundering with the hamburgerler.0 -
Why is this topic under motivation and support?0
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For the "McDonald's is EVIL crowd":
You do realize that if you went to a small corner mom-and-pop restaurant and ordered burgers and fries....you'd still be eating the same amount of calories right that you'd get at McD's right? You do realize you'd still get fat if you did that every day right?
You'd probably pay a lot more though.
I can get a large meal ( Burger / Fries / Drink ) at McD's for like £5.
If I go to a wee local restaurant or pub I'll pay about £8.
Although at the latter it'll probably be better quality meat / bread etc so worth the extra few £
At most 'sit-down' restaurants, you generally get about twice the amount of food than you get at fast food restaurants as well.
Compare a platter of Cheeseburger and fries from Fudruckers or Chili's with a burger meal at McDs or Burger King.
If you are disciplined enough to split a meal at a restaurant, then you can generally get the same amount of food for around the same or even less money.
It all comes down to choices.
I DO love that most restaurants are finally putting calorie counts on their menus, or have it at least easily accessible. It makes it much easier to be able to eat out while staying under calorie budget.
If that one change has come about by the vocal group of concerned moms, then I am grateful for that.0 -
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
We really don't have that problem by and large. There might be a few isolated communities where people have more limited access to fresh foods, but that usually translates into them eating more canned and dried goods. Most people here don't take public transportation but then again most people have ample access to automobiles and cheap gasoline (if there aren't options within walking distance, which there usually are). I think you might be getting that impression due to some over-exaggeration in this thread and people wanting to make excuses for overdoing it at McD's.
I don't know where you live, but there aren't always options in walking distance. I live in Iowa. Rural poor. I don't make excuses for overdoing it at McD's - i freaking HATE McD's - not on principle - on taste. I'd rather have some roasted brussels sprouts than french fries any day. gimme some chipotle - i can get down with that (and they are owned by McD's). I guess I just get frustrated that people want to say people blame fast food for being fat. Well, maybe some people. But in a lot of cases, it's about accessibility. Again, I don't know where you live, but it sounds like a pretty middle class area. Good for you. Not everyone has your options.
Chipotle is not owned by McDonalds.0 -
This topic is making my want McDonald's. Mmmmmm.......fries.......0
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I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.
Please stop. Advocating personal responsibility and worrying about food availability are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people here who support consumers taking responsibility to educate themselves, reading the nutrition information that is available in stores and has been well before Super Size Me, and make choices about what to put in their bodies when it comes to fast food also do things like volunteer in and donate to food pantries, help run community gardens, and are active voices in helping people who live in food deserts or have food insecurity.
I do not deny personal responsibility, but your responsibility is limited by your choices.
The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet
if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.
It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.
Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...
AGAIN, so right on.
If the problem is a lack of accessible food, or means to get to accessible food, then it seems silly to me that we focus on one company (out of so many!). All this energy would be better spent developing plans for affordable grocery within walking distance of most communities, reliable PT systems, safe parks to play in and making time for recess and gym again in schools.
Completely agree. I conceded McD's is a scapegoat. But the bottom line is accessibility. What are YOU doing to make it accessible? I am a master gardener and volunteer for 5 inner city community gardens and consult on a school gardening project. But until everyone has access to healthy food, it means at this moment in time, their option is fast food. which means they aren't getting healthy food. And who supplies it? Who profits from it? It's a problem that is bigger than the fast food industry, but as i noted several pages back, they profit from an infrastructure that fails our kids.
What do I do?! Well, since you ask, I'm the internal champion for a program that my company is very active in called Move for Hunger. We take unused pantry items from customers when they are moving and we deliver it to the local food banks and pantries. We love the program AND it ties is exceptionally well with our business model. That's a win-win for me.
That's wonderful. But food banks don't address making people self sufficient and actually creating personal responsibility. Give the man a fish versus teach a man to fish. Again, not to diminish what you do, but for all the talk about responsibility, you aren't creating access, you're organizing a hand out. It doesn't address the root of the problem which is what the problem is with the way our charity system is set up. It doesn't provide a means not to rely on the system.0
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