NEWSFLASH: McDonald’s existed back when I was a kid

neandermagnon

If it's ten miles to the nearest grocery store and there's no public transport to get there, then that's crazy!! I don't understand how America has got itself into this mess really, because the cheap supermarkets in the UK are thriving businesses, not charities. Public transport in the UK is run by private business, although I think some of the less popular routes are subsidised to ensure that as many people as possible can access public transport. Really, THIS is the problem that needs to be addressed. Blaming McDonalds for it is crazy... expecting McDonalds, a private company, to address a serious social problem in the USA by making their menus more nutritionally balanced, is ridiculous.

Again, you're getting the wrong impression. Most urban locations have ample access to public transportation, if you can't walk to a store, and the vast majority of people here own a vehicle. I'm by no means in a large city but I work in a high rise downtown and I can see a small downtown grocer out my office window right now. Likewise, although I live in a rural location (where everyone owns at least one vehicle), I could walk to a grocery store and shopping center if I wanted to walk all of 2 miles. It's worth noting you also have a choice in where you choose to live. If you're in a more rural location and don't own a car, there are vacancies in other neighborhoods. Other than some people chiming in on this forum, you never hear about this problem in most locations in the US. You're right though that blaming McDonalds for this problem, to the extent it exists, is crazy.

I guess it's very different in different parts of the USA... I mean it's a huge country. Britain's pretty small by comparison... I'm sure such communities as the other poster describes exist, the question is how common this problem is compared to places where most people own cars, where there's a grocery store within walking distance etc. I'd be surprised if there were that many places that lack even a supermarket or grocery store because I would have thought that opening a new branch in such an area would be a good investment for supermarkets... i.e. one entire community where you're the only supermarket...

petrol (gas) is a lot cheaper in the USA, maybe owning a car is... when I lived in the UK, even when earning a salary, I still frequently walked to save on petrol. Owning a car is really expensive in the UK (a year's insurance on some makes/models for some people costs more than the actual car, then there's road tax, MOT and the extortionate cost of petrol, and the cost of parking in most places), when I lived in London it was much cheaper and easier to not own a car at all, and just use public transport. The buses there run 24hr/day and the underground only closes around 1am to reopen at 5am... you can go supermarket shopping at 2am in London if you want to...

the most rural part of the UK I lived in was a very very small Welsh-speaking town in Wales (population around 3000 if that) - they had a Co-op (another supermarket chain) as well as various small grocery/bakery/butcher type shops, and an excellent organic fruit and veg shop that did the cheapest fruit and veg (in fact it was so cheap that the first time I shopped there, they told me the price and I said, "no, all of this" (indicating all the food I'd put on the counter thinking that they'd missed most of it) and they said yes, that was the price for ALL of it and I was speechless lol!!)... the public transport was pretty bad there... there were only about three or four daily buses to a larger town (with the normal high street chain stores etc) each day, but you could get all the essentials in the shops in the actual town, so it wasn't necessary to go to the other town very often (mostly for clothing).

in the UK I'd say that in most places there are very cheap food options for most people.... someone mentioned the homeless earlier in the thread, I think the homeless do genuinely have difficulty accessing affordable food because they have no access to a kitchen so can only buy prepackaged food which is much more expensive, but their issue is likely to be other forms malnutrition besides obesity. I don't think I've ever seen an obese homeless person (based on all the beggars and big issue vendors I ever saw while living in London, and I usually either bought the big issue or gave the vendor a quid anyway because that's a magazine sold by homeless people so they can work their way out of being homeless.. and it works; there are a lot of ex-homeless people because of the big issue)

usmcj80

I am an adult and responsible for myself - JEN

Pffft. Logic. :laugh:

Yeah what business does logic have in a discussion. Stupid logic.

jmcdonald2011

.

I live in a rural area (750 people) yes sometimes it makes it difficult to have the healthy food - we are not rolling in cash, and sometimes its a struggle. BUT WE DO IT, yes it means that sometimes I have to buy in bulk, and sometimes I have to rely on people who I know are going into the city to pick up fresh fruits and veggies. But it works and I do it.

That echoes my experiences as well. Folks from rural areas I've known always have a large stock of frozen goods (oftentimes with a separate freezer unit), dried goods, canned goods, and frequently a garden if circumstances permit. If you're in a truly rural area and so poor you can't drive to the grocery store, you aren't hitting up McDonald's to overeat on Big Macs on a daily basis.

well said - I know so many people out here who take the time to drive in to get fast food because they don't have time to make dinner...wth? so that's an hour drive to buy fast food. in that hour I have made a meal from scratch. or for the truly busy - buy a crock pot. best invention ever!

_HeartsOnFire_

I am an adult and responsible for myself - JEN

Pffft. Logic. :laugh:

Yeah what business does logic have in a discussion. Stupid logic.

Exactly!

Shootersplusgal2

Great discussion!

DebbieLyn63

"In the 70s, McDonalds had a very successful ad campaign going with a commercial showing a grown man walking in, ordering a burger, fries, and a drink, and getting change back from his dollar.
The meal that he ordered is now a SMALL Happy Meal, marketed towards kids 4 and under."

Holy wow..I had no idea there were different sizes for a Happy Meal. Please tell me there is not a "super size" option...

Yes, they have a 'Mighty Kids' meal that comes with a double cheeseburger or 6 pc nugget, medium fries instead of small, and a medium drink instead of small.
These are meals that used to be on the adult menu. But now, the adult nugget meal is 10 nuggets instead of 6. (You can ask for the 6 nugget meal if you like. They give you a mighty kids meal without the toy).

SO yeah, they 'super-sized' the kids meals as well.:grumble:

jmcdonald2011

OMG! where are you that they supersized happy meals? They don't have that here

AMOMONAJOURNEYTOCHANGEHERLIFE

They do it here In New York Happy Meal and Mighty meals....

FitMe758

Adults and children are not overweight because of a silly looking clown and super sizing meals.

Adults and children and overweight PRECISELY because we are super sizing meals!!!!!!
If we exercised portion control we could be eating anything (again, in moderation) and still stay in fairly good shape.

Do you want a burger? Eat a burger. Eat a REAL burger, not an engineered, Triple Quarter Pounder with cheese Baconator Supreme.

With that said, it is ultimately up to the parents to teach their kids about health and to make good choices.

For a while, my young children were asking for McDonald's and I obliged. They called McDonald's "The Happy Meal" and loved it.
Then we decided to stop eating McDonald's.

They whined (quite a bit) for a while after. It would have been much easier for me to shut them up every time they saw the logo from the car, by going through the drive thru and buying them a happy meal. They get lunch, a toy AND I don't have to cook.

That's the easy way out. I don't want to appease my children with food.

mRoss27

For those who have forgotten, this is a CAPITALIST society. A corporation will do whatever it can to turn high profit margins. So a company like McDonalds can sell CHEAP food that people love and make billions of dollars doing it. And people think theyre in the wrong. The lost art today is PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. There are plenty of catalysts in everyday life for making bad decisions. You are responsible for lacking control over your own life. You are responsible for making yourself a victim.

DebbieLyn63

If it's ten miles to the nearest grocery store and there's no public transport to get there, then that's crazy!! I don't understand how America has got itself into this mess really, because the cheap supermarkets in the UK are thriving businesses, not charities. Public transport in the UK is run by private business, although I think some of the less popular routes are subsidised to ensure that as many people as possible can access public transport. Really, THIS is the problem that needs to be addressed. Blaming McDonalds for it is crazy... expecting McDonalds, a private company, to address a serious social problem in the USA by making their menus more nutritionally balanced, is ridiculous.

Again, you're getting the wrong impression. Most urban locations have ample access to public transportation, if you can't walk to a store, and the vast majority of people here own a vehicle. I'm by no means in a large city but I work in a high rise downtown and I can see a small downtown grocer out my office window right now. Likewise, although I live in a rural location (where everyone owns at least one vehicle), I could walk to a grocery store and shopping center if I wanted to walk all of 2 miles. It's worth noting you also have a choice in where you choose to live. If you're in a more rural location and don't own a car, there are vacancies in other neighborhoods. Other than some people chiming in on this forum, you never hear about this problem in most locations in the US. You're right though that blaming McDonalds for this problem, to the extent it exists, is crazy.

I don't know where you live, but there aren't always options in walking distance. I live in Iowa. Rural poor. I don't make excuses for overdoing it at McD's - i freaking HATE McD's - not on principle - on taste. I'd rather have some roasted brussels sprouts than french fries any day. gimme some chipotle - i can get down with that (and they are owned by McD's). I guess I just get frustrated that people want to say people blame fast food for being fat. Well, maybe some people. But in a lot of cases, it's about accessibility. Again, I don't know where you live, but it sounds like a pretty middle class area. Good for you. Not everyone has your options.

What rural locations are you in where people don't own a vehicle or have access to a friend with a vehicle? In your rural community where you don't have access to a vehicle, how is McDonald's cheaper and closer than canned or frozen vegetables, rice, beans, and so on? I'm not buying it. Beans, rice, a bit of homemade chow chow if you're lucky, and perhaps a small bit of meat for flavoring is one of the cheapest meals you can make. That was a staple in my grandparents' household because they lived in an isolated rural community with at best access to a country store, and they had to get by a lot of the time with a garden and dried/canned goods. Likewise, these meals can be made from canned/dried ingredients that keep for months if not years. Where are these people that can't make it to a grocery store at least once every few months, can't prepare low cost meals like this for themselves, but they can walk next door to a McDonald's to over-consume cheeseburgers or buy a bunch of gas station food (which are both more expensive options)?

Again, in a discussion about malnourishment, accessibility can play a large role. But in terms of obesity, I'm not buying that anyone's lack of access caused them to overeat hotdogs and McDonald's.

I'm actually in Des Moines and we do NOT have a downtown grocer. They are all in the burbs/outlying residential areas of the city. So you're lucky in that respect. In the rural areas that I've worked, I'm not talking out on the farm. I'm talking small town that might have a local grocer (an IGA) who's prices are inflated because they don't have the benefit of purchasing on scale and maybe a Hardees and McDonalds. These are small rural 'towns' - not on the farm - where unemployment is rampant because the factory farming industry has run out the majority of farmers who did business in town. Meanwhile, insurance agents, doctors, lawyers, etc. all left those small towns leaving behind those who couldn't afford to do so. It's a sad state of affairs. Again, I've never implied it's the fast food industry's fault - but they certainly profit from misfortune.

I live in a rural town in north Texas, about 15-20 minutes away from the nearest larger city. When we first moved here, there was one IGA grocery store and zero fast food places. One little Mom's Cafe where people went for family meals out. We got a Sonic soon after we moved here and that was great. We didn't have to drive into town to get burgers and fries.
Now while the grocery store was a bit more expensive on some items than Walmart in the neighboring city, it wasn't horribly so. Most of the items that were more expensive were the packed/boxed items like poptarts, cereal, chips, etc. The meats were a better quality and lower priced than Walmart, and so were most of the fresh produce. Milk is probably the one thing that is higher than Walmart, probably due to the bulk purchasing power. I saved enough on gas shopping locally most of the time to make up for the difference.

Anyway, You could definitely spend less at the local grocer for a lb of hamburger, pack of buns, some potatoes, and some lettuce and tomato and feed your family a better quality of burger and fries for a lot less money than spending $6 a piece for a burger meal at Sonic.

Or you could even fix a healthier meal of grilled chicken and veggies for a lot less.

It is not about the availability and cost of home cooked meals, rather than the convenience. We are a lazy society who wants immediate gratification. Covered in sugar, salt, and ketchup!

neandermagnon

"In the 70s, McDonalds had a very successful ad campaign going with a commercial showing a grown man walking in, ordering a burger, fries, and a drink, and getting change back from his dollar.
The meal that he ordered is now a SMALL Happy Meal, marketed towards kids 4 and under."

Holy wow..I had no idea there were different sizes for a Happy Meal. Please tell me there is not a "super size" option...

Yes, they have a 'Mighty Kids' meal that comes with a double cheeseburger or 6 pc nugget, medium fries instead of small, and a medium drink instead of small.
These are meals that used to be on the adult menu. But now, the adult nugget meal is 10 nuggets instead of 6. (You can ask for the 6 nugget meal if you like. They give you a mighty kids meal without the toy).

SO yeah, they 'super-sized' the kids meals as well.:grumble:

happy meals where I live have 4 nuggets or a very small burger, and the portion of fries is miniscule (much smaller than the small size of fries served in the regular menu) and the drink is about half the size of the regular menu small drink.

and they're marketed for kids of all ages, not just under 4. my 7 yr old daughter is quite happy with this size of happy meal. (and as I said much much earlier in this thread, my kids spend most of their time at McDonalds running and playing in the play area)

But I'm assuming that the demand for larger happy meals comes from customers... the argument about restaurant serving sizes making people obese isn't really valid either. I usually eat fairly small meals... sometimes I go to Friday's which has huge portion sizes, and I eat until I'm full, then ask for the rest of the meal to be put in a takeaway container, take it home and the leftovers make another entire meal (or sometimes even 2 meals) the next day. I physically can't eat an entire Friday's meal, because it's way more food than I'm used to in a single meal... so if people are eating entire supersized meals without difficulty then maybe that's because they regularly eat too much in a single meal, and the restaurants are catering for the amount of food they want to eat.... restaurants don't make people who are used to eating more normal sized meals eat supersized meals. I like Fridays, because it's basically two meals for the price of one.

bcattoes

If it all comes down to personal responsibility, and environmental or social factors play no role, why do you suppose there are so many more obese people now. When and why did so many people start wanting to be fat?

parkscs

I'd be surprised if there were that many places that lack even a supermarket or grocery store because I would have thought that opening a new branch in such an area would be a good investment for supermarkets... i.e. one entire community where you're the only supermarket...

To the extent such places exist, it's almost certain that there isn't a McDonald's within walking distance and even if there is, it's highly unlikely that McDonald's is the cheaper option versus finding a ride to a grocery store and stocking up on dried/canned/frozen goods. What's almost certainly the case is that McDonald's is the easier/more convenient option and so many people opt for it instead.

I don't think I've ever seen an obese homeless person (based on all the beggars and big issue vendors I ever saw while living in London, and I usually either bought the big issue or gave the vendor a quid anyway because that's a magazine sold by homeless people so they can work their way out of being homeless.. and it works; there are a lot of ex-homeless people because of the big issue)

While it's far from universal, it's not uncommon for me to see overweight people around here with signs on street corners. In the context of a discussion on malnourishment, I think Lib_B would have some good points - but not so much in the context of a discussion on obesity. And I'll freely admit that it's easier to overconsume at places like McDonald's unless you're really watching what you eat. But at the end of the day, I think there's a logical breakdown with the notion of being so poor you overconsume and, to the extent it exists, that's the type of problem you're only going to see in a first world country.

Cheeseburger85

OP, thank you for posting. I agree completely with you on all fronts. I have read through a number of the responses to your post (not all of them as I am at work), and see that a number of people are advocating that McDonald’s is somehow responsible for more than simply providing an inexpensive, convenient meal option for its customers. In my humble opinion, McDonald’s is doing exactly as society demands of them.

1) McDonald’s invests very heavily in studying market trends. Their movement into the “healthy alternative market” (salads, wraps, etc.) is not due to lobby groups or government intervention it is due to the fact that they have lost significant market share to Subway, which as of 2011 had passed McDonald’s in number of restaurant units globally (1) . It is difficult for one to argue (generally) that Subway is any less accessible than McDonald’s. Consumers have a choice.

2) The argument for many appears (to me in skimming through responses) that those people in lower socioeconomic groups rely heavily on McDonald’s as it is convenient and inexpensive. From what has been said, this group relies on the food from McDonald’s as it is all they can afford. By that argument McDonald’s should not improve the quality of ingredients, reduce the level of processed food sold, or start selling higher nutrient products. Think about it this way, the margin on one hamburger is not significantly high (prices vary from country to country but margin should be generally aligned) given overhead costs ingredient costs, processing costs, direct labour costs, etc. By increasing any one of the input costs the price per unit passed onto consumers will directly increase accordingly, thus rendering the food unaffordable (less affordable) to those in lower socioeconomic groups.

3) Some posters seem to think that the poor don’t know better. It seems quite condescending to say that people (even in lower socioeconomic groups) don’t realize that eating McDonald’s excessively is unhealthy. Yes, many are uneducated. Yes, most are not nutritionists. But No, they aren’t idiots, they simply make their choices based on what they personally want to do. Many smoke, I can tell you that they know it is unhealthy but they make the personal choice to do it.
I see that there are about five more pages of posts since I started writing. If this post is no longer relevant, I apologize.

Thanks,

Jon

(1) http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703386704576186432177464052
Or if you don’t like the wsj:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/07/worlds-largest-restaurant-chain-subway_n_832511.html

DebbieLyn63

OMG! where are you that they supersized happy meals? They don't have that here

Texas. Everything is bigger in Texas, haven't you heard??

parkscs

If it all comes down to personal responsibility, and environmental or social factors play no role, why do you suppose there are so many more obese people now. When and why did so many people start wanting to be fat?

Who is saying environmental and social factors play no role whatsoever? Access to cheap food and our social fixation with huge portion size play a huge role in that they make it seem okay to grossly overconsume (as well as make it affordable). In many ways, socioeconomic factors can provide temptations and even pressure for people to make poor decisions when it comes to eating. But there's a difference between influencing bad behavior and alleviating personal responsibility. These factors might make it harder to resist temptation (e.g., opting for a low budget, home-cooked meal over a fast food value meal) but at the end of the day the responsibility rests on the individual to take care of their own health. And to keep things in context, this is a thread about McDonalds - not general socioeconomic factors. While socioeconomic factors might make an individual's circumstances more understandable/sympathetic, they do not shift the blame from the individual to a business that provides a popular service that said individual took advantage of in excess.

Hannah_Hopes

in to read through replies later

canadjineh

I remember the meal with change back from a dollar. (I believe you paid 95 cents or similar) That meal is probably the size of a kiddy meal nowdays . See if you can find the comparison online with serving sizes from 1970's til now. Bet you'd be surprised.

CJisinShape

I'm so relieved all the personal responsibility folks don't live in abject poverty. The voices of those in extreme poverty aren't here and you know why? Because they don't have computers!!!! When I ate fast food, it was a choice. I gained weight and it was totally my choice. However, I also had/have the resources to make better choices. It's not just about education - it's about taking a hungry kid and making them feel full - and McD's and other fast food giants who provide calorie laden foods at a cheap price point take advantage (not necessarily intentionally) of that fact. there are kids who might get two meals a day during the school year and if my kid is hungry, i'm not so concerned with nutrition as quieting a hungry belly so my kid can sleep. i have worked for years with these families...it isn't always about 'choice' and 'responsibility.' what i am talking about has nothing to do with people on MFP who have time and resources to devote to health. i'm talking about people who we work with to grow community gardens and teach them to prepare fresh food because they don't know how because they have never had it and live in food deserts of the 'inner city' without access to produce besides the overripe bananas at the gas station, but can find as much fast food as your heart desires within a quarter mile of home, but the grocery is over 5 miles away and they have no car. the issue is bigger than just 'you choose or you don't choose.' maybe you, but not everyone.

Please stop. Advocating personal responsibility and worrying about food availability are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people here who support consumers taking responsibility to educate themselves, reading the nutrition information that is available in stores and has been well before Super Size Me, and make choices about what to put in their bodies when it comes to fast food also do things like volunteer in and donate to food pantries, help run community gardens, and are active voices in helping people who live in food deserts or have food insecurity.

I do not deny personal responsibility, but your responsibility is limited by your choices.

The lack of choice *isn't McDonalds fault though*!! or 7-11 or any other food outlet

if this really is what's going on in poor communities in the USA then the USA needs to start providing affordable public transport and encouraging cheaper supermarkets to open branches in poor residential areas.

It seems, going by the posts here, that the USA has a problem with accessibility to fresh food options, i.e. cheap fruit, veg, meat, etc. The UK has this, because there are cheap supermarkets within walking distance of pretty much any residential areal (there are probably exceptions, but they'd be rare exceptions), and most places have at least a semi-decent public transport system, as in you can get to anywhere around the town/city during the day at least.

Seems to me that's the problem, not McDonalds. Asking McDonalds to make their menus more healthy is an utterly crazy way to address this problem...

AGAIN, so right on.

If the problem is a lack of accessible food, or means to get to accessible food, then it seems silly to me that we focus on one company (out of so many!). All this energy would be better spent developing plans for affordable grocery within walking distance of most communities, reliable PT systems, safe parks to play in and making time for recess and gym again in schools.

Completely agree. I conceded McD's is a scapegoat. But the bottom line is accessibility. What are YOU doing to make it accessible? I am a master gardener and volunteer for 5 inner city community gardens and consult on a school gardening project. But until everyone has access to healthy food, it means at this moment in time, their option is fast food. which means they aren't getting healthy food. And who supplies it? Who profits from it? It's a problem that is bigger than the fast food industry, but as i noted several pages back, they profit from an infrastructure that fails our kids.

What do I do?! Well, since you ask, I'm the internal champion for a program that my company is very active in called Move for Hunger. We take unused pantry items from customers when they are moving and we deliver it to the local food banks and pantries. We love the program AND it ties is exceptionally well with our business model. That's a win-win for me.

I think the problem in poor neighborhoods is that grocery stores have low margins, which are further reduced by higher rates of theft, vandalism and the resulting higher insurance premiums.