Yoga seen as "Un-Manly"

thesupremeforce

DDP Yoga has my full endorsement. That is all.

g44219

I have tried yoga once. It sucked balls! I disagree that it is un manly. Because by sucking balls I mean it kicked my *kitten*! It was as bad as almost any crossfit workout I have done or anyother workout for that matter. Maybe I was doing it wrong or something I don't know but it was a totally different kind of workout from anything I have done and it was very challenging.

geebusuk

Oh and thinking on from my previous post....
If you claim even activities done mostly by women are 'manly' or not 'un-manly', then you basically disqualify the whole concept and shouldn't worry about it anyway!
No point even considering it if there's nothing outside the group.

swissmish

My husband loves doing yoga....actually that is the only form of exercise he will do. And he is quite the manly man too and covered in tattoos as well. So no he doesn't look like your "typical" yoga person, but he loves it!

BinaryPulsar

Sometimes women don't lift weights because they think it is "man" exercise, so I can see why some people might think that about yoga. I can also see why people might just also have general misconceptions about yoga. But, there is no need to make yoga more manly. I know just as many men that teach yoga (maybe more) as women. And none of them fit any particular stereotype of yogi or masculinity and wouldn't care, though they are very strong and flexible and have tons of ladies swooning over them. Lots of men are dancers as well. Nothing unmanly about being a male dancer. And not all men like and dislike the same things. I think the amount of men doing yoga varies more as a regional thing. In some places more men do yoga (more people do yoga) than other places.

tierra85

:flowerforyou:

As someone who was introduced to yoga as soon as i could crawl, my opinion may be slightly bias. Where do you even begin to describe all the benefits, especially within the scientific community! I love that you are not what society would label as a stereotypical yogi! I trust you will be able to spread the word beyond where it is now, and reach people that would benefit so much from including yoga in their life and wouldn't have adopted it otherwise. I also feel so passionately against how our culture feels the need to push the view on boys from such a young age to "man up", but that's a completely different debate. Regardless, as you said yoga is about health and not gender. Best wishes in your practice

ninerbuff

It's subjective. Like any exercise, I believe people will do what they are pretty good at. Most men are better at lifting weights and doing endurance sport training then they are at Zumba, step aerobics, or even yoga.
So the less men that attend a class or workout and while the attendance for women is overwhelming, I can see how it's viewed as not manly.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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jofjltncb6

Edit: don't want to off-topic derail the thread.

BinaryPulsar

:flowerforyou:

As someone who was introduced to yoga as soon as i could crawl, my opinion may be slightly bias. Where do you even begin to describe all the benefits, especially within the scientific community! I love that you are not what society would label as a stereotypical yogi! I trust you will be able to spread the word beyond where it is now, and reach people that would benefit so much from including yoga in their life and wouldn't have adopted it otherwise. I also feel so passionately against how our culture feels the need to push the view on boys from such a young age to "man up", but that's a completely different debate. Regardless, as you said yoga is about health and not gender. Best wishes in your practice

Yeah, there are so many different types of yoga teachers and different classes they teach. The men that I know that teach yoga have extremely different approaches to yoga. Some have a more metaphysical kind of approach, and some are atheists and scientists. Some do a more gentle type of yoga and others are contortionists.

geebusuk

Where do you even begin to describe all the benefits, especially within the scientific community!

Could you start just after 'flexibility', please?
That certainly makes sense, but I have been sceptical about a lot of other claimed benefits, at least compared to other options (most definitely from stuff like the 'DPP Yoga', but lets ignore that for the moment.)

thesupremeforce

Where do you even begin to describe all the benefits, especially within the scientific community!

Could you start just after 'flexibility', please?
That certainly makes sense, but I have been sceptical about a lot of other claimed benefits, at least compared to other options (most definitely from stuff like the 'DPP Yoga', but lets ignore that for the moment.)

What's so difficult to buy here? Aside from flexibility, yoga improves balance, can help with strength (depending on starting levels), definitely can enhance core strength. Improved posture? "All" DDP Yoga really does is combine yoga poses with calisthenics (mostly push-ups, lunges, squats, calf-raises, etc), and a lot of "dynamic resistance" which is just performing actions while trying to provide your own resistance. I don't imagine that any form of exercise offers anything that can't be found in some other forms of exercise. If that was the case, wouldn't (pretty much) everyone default to said exercise over time?

Chevy_Quest

For all the people who are on the boards complaining about "Mean" People.... they should read this post. This is a great constructive post. I would not be suprised if there is some guy out there "lurking" (in a good way of course) reading all the posts and then actually gets the guts to go to a yoga class or pop in a yoga DVD.

Hell.. I am going to start doing that this month!

I really feel that Yoga is one of the complete parts of a real fitness routine.

Right F%#@in' On! :drinker:

sugarlemonpie

My boyfriend does yoga and loves it! The different poses and stretches have been so good for his legs, he has been through some surgeries. It bothers me that it's seen as very 'feminine', just like how weight lifting is seen as masculine. It's all up to what you like, stereotypes be damned!

yogicarl

It may be thought that males are generally more naturally gifted towards strength development and females to being more flexible. I know testosterone or the lack of it has a part to play, but I also wonder if it is largely to do with the way children are often steered into types of activity that develop those traits - boys to weight training in their own right or weights to build strength for a rough sport for example, whereas girls are often steered toward gymnastics, dance, yoga etc.

So are the genders gifted toward strength or suppleness because of gender or conditioning?

I know a yoga teacher who said they would rather have a non-supple but strong beginner then a naturally flexible but weaker individual because suppleness can be gradually gained as the person learns to relax and give way, whereas a hyper-flexible person often finds it difficult to build strength.

I wonder what effect it would have if gender and conditioning were taken out of physical training?

Tomm88

I'm really thinking about trying yoga for a few weeks, yoga would help my mobility which would help me alot in powerlifting!

geebusuk

Comparing to other options, because they tend to be better - for strength a barbell/pull up bar/simialr training is likely to be much more effective, for example.
The things I've read suggest that balance tends to be quite function-dependant, so learning good yoga balance will help me balance in yoga poses, but probably won't help so much riding a unicycle of rock climbing and visa versa.

And my issue with DPP is the claims made about how amazing it is including for weight loss - appreciated it's typical 'marketing'. I'm incredibly sceptical about his 'dynamic resistance' - if it was that useful, I'd suggest that "everyone would be doing it" - as it goes, I can remember thinking about this about 20 years ago, when I was 14, in the shower and thinking "well, why can't you just push against yourself". But that transitions to, "why can't you push against a wall".

I've now just spent some time googling and reading up on yoga, stretching and the like.

The best stuff I've come up with is from the following and based on stretching generally..
http://saveyourself.ca/articles/stretching.php
From that, think I'll leave making an effort to do yoga for climbing and just try and make myself do some basic climbing-related stretches regularly.

I wonder what effect it would have if gender and conditioning were taken out of physical training?

Testosterone plays a massive part in gaining muscle and thus strength.

If you take something like rock climbing, you'll often find women using their flexibility more - however I generally get the impression this is to 'make up' for a lack of overall grip/weight ratio as well as strength/weight ratio* (despite being lighter)and in some cases reach,

BinaryPulsar

Yoga and meditation (vipassana insight meditation) has measured benefits to the brain through relaxation and for how it gives the mind a focused break. Neuroscientists have studied it. There are also ways that certain movement patterns can improve injury, mobility, and range of motion by teaching the body to relax some muscles and use other muscles in a more efficient way. All of that and the flexibility are due to neurological reasons and not just physical training.

thesupremeforce

Being able to balance on one leg (or whatever) is a practical skill, but yeah, a lot of yoga poses aren't very practical for everyday life. Still, a lot of them are good for building flexibility, which is useful to everyone. Being able to touch your toes or even do a back bridge can be useful skills. Handstands are kind of fun, but admittedly not very practical.

You could just push against a wall. In fact, that's how many people begin doing push ups, so I don't see your argument there. Dynamic resistance does function to elevate the heart rate (give it a try), but again, it's not going to do much to build strength. If nothing else, if you engage properly, you'll "feel" it.

DDP Yoga is great for weight loss in the same way that many forms of exercise are good for weight loss. You burn calories. I never bought into the program's dietary suggestions, as they struck me as unnecessary (giving up dairy and wheat sort of things). Sure, I lost weight, but that falls into the category of "Eat Less; Move More."

DDP Yoga's been great for me, because I have far less ankle pain than I did prior to starting the program. I also no longer have back pain. I totally buy into the "it's amazing" camp, but I admit that the "too good to be true" way it's marketed makes people skeptical. I was the same way at first.

It's great for people recovering/suffering from injuries. I'd recommend it to people as a nice rounded yoga/calisthenics/low impact cardio program, as it hits all of those things in one workout.

yogicarl

Handstands are extremely practical if you value a healthy heart and circulation.

geebusuk

I expect I'd get the same relaxation benefits from sitting down after a long day and watching a film - probably more, because I didn't find Yoga amazingly relaxing.

Balancing on one leg is one of the things that does have some transference to climbing - pistol squats and so on, as there are cases where you haven't really got anywhere to put your hands usefully, but have one good foot placement which you can only get onto by reaching up with that leg, then rocking your weight on to it - in other activities, sporting or not, it's not something I've found I need!

Similarly, while I can touch my toes, I can't think of a time I've had to do that as opposed to just bending down more.

From reading the link I posted above (which has lots of citations and so on), I'm now even less convinced of the usefulness of flexibility in non-sport-specific cases.

As far as DPP for weight loss - from what I can see it's mostly good for allowing you to eat a bit more.
Which is one of the reasons I do cardio when cutting, sure - but this DPP doesn't seem to offer a great calorie burn.
Best thing about it seems to be that it may get people moving who might not for other reasons - but it does seem quite an expensive placebo in that manner.

Pushing against your hand or a wall is NOT the same as a push up - where you're physically moving a weight (your body) through space.
Of course, it might all be a conspiracy by the gym equipment manufacturers and all we really need is an adjustable back blate close to a wall so we can strain against a solid object with each limb - somehow I don't think this is the case.

Handstands are extremely practical if you value a healthy heart and circulation.

Even better, I'd be willing to bet, is going for a run, a cycle ride or similar . Even more so if you're doing intervals.

yogicarl

Handstands are extremely practical if you value a healthy heart and circulation.

Even better, I'd be willing to bet, is going for a run, a cycle ride or similar . Even more so if you're doing intervals.

Agreed, those activities are also beneficial. My comment on handstands was referring to the benefits on the heart and circulation on going inverted.

hermann341

A friend of mine at work threatened to take my man card. I said he could have it if he could keep up with me during a session. He declined my offer.

EDollah

There's a broga (their term) studio near me, for dudes to do yoga. Having just started yoga 2 weeks ago, I have to say the main appeal is the F:M ratio.

This notion that men lift because they build muscle and women do yoga because they're flexible makes me laugh. I guaran-dam-tee there are more men doing yoga world wide than women.

geebusuk

My comment on handstands was referring to the benefits on the heart and circulation on going inverted.

Indeed. And mine was that I would be willing to bet that my suggestion would (running/cycling, ideally with intervals) would have more benefits.

Do you have some evidence to support your view point?
The best I could come up with, is....
There is no evidence*.... http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130611/PC1211/130619922
Which makes my 'bet' harder. However here's an article that cites appropriate peer reviewed papers for improvements in cardiovascular health from running...
http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/hiit-vs-continuous-endurance-training-battle-of-the-aerobic-titans

* They do mention one study which says yoga instructors have less degenerative issues that 'normal' people - but I wouldn't be surprised if that was true of most gym instructors compared to 'normal people'.

DavPul

Before I take any fitness advice from you of any kind...

...I need to know if you're in better shape than I am.


What's your best 5k time?
What's your deadlift 1RM?
Total cholesterol?
Average blood pressure?
Any relevant fitness-related medical problems I should know about?

I can run a 5k- i had back surgery and can't run without severe pain
Dead lifts are out for the same reason
My total cholesterol is around 240
My BP is 120/70 on the average
I have chronic back pain 24/7- how's that for a medial problem?

Now, if you read MY ENTIRE post, instead of just the first sentence you would be able to correctly interpret that I was referring to people that spew unpracticed fitness advice that are out of shape . I've explained this later in that same post but I get sick of repeating myself.

That's a cute little example of revisionist history there. How long did was one expected to follow that thread to get to the back pedaling?

So what you're saying is that if a person is in great shape you WILL follow whatever unpracticed, misinformed, broscience type advice that they spew?

You seem like the kind of guy that says what's on his mind. I'm the same way. And yes, I would be more inclined to take fitness advice from someone in much better shape than me. It means they know their stuff. but I'm going weigh said advice against what I know. Its not my fault people misinterpret what I wrote and get offended. Reading comprehension isn't what it used to be. People say its common core, I blame the internets. I don't back pedal. I stand by what I posted. If people feel it was aimed at them, they probably believe the government is watching them too or space aliens are waiting to abduct them too.

And what is Broscience anyway?

meh, just me busting your balls than actually caring. you DID say that stuff tho. anyhoo, before i got banned from posting on the forums i basically lived here in the F&E section, and I can't recall ever seeing a single post about Yoga being feminine or something like that so you should be fine here. i mean, i won't pretend that IRL someone might have something to say, but you're mostly preaching to the choir here.

i haven't read the entire thread but i'm assuming someone pointed you in the direction of the better yoga groups? if not, shame on them

geebusuk

Now read the other post from OP, that all the rukus is about....
So, where are the 3 sources to back up your claims about yoga?

goldfinger88

Yoga is not for sissys. I do Ashtanga yoga and it would make any man cry. I say to hell with the uninformed who think yoga is unmanly. That's just stupid. And a real man feels no threat in the face of such talk. Yoga builds muscle and flexibility and strength, not to mention endurance. Nothing unmanly about that.

wheird

I think Yoga is a great addition to a well rounded fitness program. Flexibility is very important, in my opinion.

geebusuk

Nothing unmanly about that.

So, are you saying it IS manly?

SunofaBeach14

I'm going to eat my salad, sip my white wine, and watch this continue. Don't mind me.