Two + Months in, not a pound gone
Replies
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What does you going over your diary with your nutritionist have to do with opening it for us to see as well?
I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
If your nutritionist is so fantastic, you would have lost some weight by now. Open your diary and let the people see!0 -
I really second getting tested for insulin resistance. Re-check your thyroid levels. Also, kudos to you for sticking to it. I can't imagine being in your situation, it must be so frustrating. I'm really proud of you for sticking with it despite the lack of progress. Hang in there, ok?:)
Thank you for the encouragement. I know everyone has their struggles, this is one of mine and I just want to figure it out!
No hashi's no PCOS here. According to my Doc and an absolute barrage of tests (including a lipid profile, EKG, and Framingham score of 1 in addition to all the other tests I have mentioned), everything was either exceptional (lipid profile, framingham score) or well within normal ranges.
Thanks again for all the responses. I am really impressed with the community here.
Off to see my trainer!0 -
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If your nutritionist is so fantastic, you would have lost some weight by now. Open your diary and let the people see!
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^This^0 -
I'd be interested to see about the insulin resistance study. It seems that for me, My weighloss slows quite a bit when I am eating alot of junk food. Even if it fits my Calorie goal. I'm not sure if its water retention due to the sodium or I'm just tracking it totally wrong. I don't think my body works any different than anybody else: cals in<cals out. But something happens there for sure.There are caveats to CICO which some people have a hard time acknowledging. Whether it's a difference in biochemistry that we don't fully understand or difficulty in calculating the CO part of the equation, I'm not sure. But the TYPE of calories will make a big difference for SOME people. For example, people with insulin resistance will lose more weight with the same amount of calories if less of their calories come from carbs because of the abnormal glucose metabolism issue with insulin resistance. They've done studies on this (for those that insist on seeing it, I'll look for it to be posted with an edit). So, for people with such issues, how they create the deficit makes a HUGE difference in their actual weight loss.
First, are you weighing everything you eat with a food scale so you're sure of your actual intake? If you're not doing this, I highly recommend doing this first to get an accurate picture of the CI part of the equation. This is probably the most common error most people make -- grossly underestimating their calories eaten. And, as others have pointed out, measuring spoons/cups aren't as accurate as weight for solids. Please do this first.
Second, if you're already weighing your food and confident in your intake, then you need to go to the doctor again and get things checked. I know you said you were fine, but I was told I was fine for over 10 years by 4 different doctors until I really researched issues myself, understood what tests needed to be done and what they meant. Then, bingo, I finally got the correct diagnosis and treatment --- and not only felt 1000x better, but also finally started losing weight like a "normal" person.
From my journey, I'm familiar with thyroid issues and insulin resistance. Do you know if you've had the following tests done for them and what their numbers were:
Thyroid -- Free T3, Free T4, TSH, both antibodies (TPO and Tg)
Insulin resistance -- A1C
Over 40% of US adults have insulin resistance in pre-diabetic or diabetic levels (2/3 of the pre-diabetic folks are undiagnosed) -- and that makes it very hard to lose weight and very easy to gain weight without the proper diet, and possibly medication. That's a LOT of people. 8% or so of the population have a thyroid disorder, 2/3 of which are undiagnosed.
ETA: I just have to assume it's improper logging because it's hard to properly log a burger from a mom and pop fast food joint.0 -
I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
She must be incredible. I can't imagine having a nutritionalist that lets me double my caloric intake and NOT gain any weight!!!!!!
But in all seriousness, we all know where the problem is; its your eating and its absurdly obvious.
Open up the diary.0 -
What does you going over your diary with your nutritionist have to do with opening it for us to see as well?
I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
Perhaps she's embarrassed by the things she eats (she mentioned eating out). If that's the case, I don't think anyone is really here to judge. People want to help, and the very first step is peeking at your log. You may have a nutritionist, but here you have THOUSANDS of people who have been in your shoes. I'm sorry, but I'll pick the latter 99% of the time.
We've all eaten things we likely shouldn't. Better believe I logged the bacon cheeseburger I had the other night along with TWO Mike's Hard Lemonades. I logged it, and I enjoyed it. No shame in that. I've moved on.
I leave you with this: Good Luck.
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I don't want to be rude, but I have a lot of friends, women, in your exact situation who have Hashi's or PCOS.
It is not as simple as cals in, cals out for them.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the incidence of PCOS and Hashimoto's does not support the number of people on MFP who claim to have these disorders. Again, I could be wrong but it seems like every time I turn around someone else is posting about how they can't lose weight because they have PCOS. If a physician diagnoses it, fine, but if not... it's just an excuse.
You are wrong. A tremendous number of people have PCOS- it is actually the single most common cause of female IF. It just used to be horribly misunderstood and under diagnosed because so few doctors even knew about it. Most women with PCOS have in fact had a battery of tests (IR, testosterone levels, thyroid etc) and many of us have had ultrasounds to confirm the typical string of pearls cysts on our ovaries. And I've never met a single soul who claimed to have PCOS without a doctor's confirmation0 -
I do not eat back any calories. She gives me a total caloric intake to eat every day and that's what I eat regardless of what I burn.
Isn't this an obvious impediment to losing weight, based on MFP's model?0 -
There aren't any foods you should't eat. If you track it and it falls within your goals it's fine to eat. Really the only time a food should be completely avoided is if you don't enjoy eating it or you have an intolerance/allergy to it. Other then that eat what you like. If you are constantly going over your goals however, then that is an issue.
Perhaps she's embarrassed by the things she eats (she mentioned eating out). If that's the case, I don't think anyone is really here to judge. People want to help, and the very first step is peeking at your log. You may have a nutritionist, but here you have THOUSANDS of people who have been in your shoes. I'm sorry, but I'll pick the latter 99% of the time.
We've all eaten things we likely shouldn't. Better believe I logged the bacon cheeseburger I had the other night along with TWO Mike's Hard Lemonades. I logged it, and I enjoyed it. No shame in that. I've moved on.
I leave you with this: Good Luck.0 -
I do not eat back any calories. She gives me a total caloric intake to eat every day and that's what I eat regardless of what I burn.
Isn't this an obvious impediment to losing weight, based on MFP's model?
No. Lots of people set their cal goals from their TDEE and then just log exercise as 1 calorie0 -
No it's not. People who don't track exercise calories simply base intake on their TDEE which accounts for your exercise. Plenty of us do it that way. I lost all my weight never calculating or eating back exercise calories.I do not eat back any calories. She gives me a total caloric intake to eat every day and that's what I eat regardless of what I burn.
Isn't this an obvious impediment to losing weight, based on MFP's model?0 -
"My nutritionist has me eating 50% carbs 30% fat and 20% protein. If I don't watch it closely it ends up at 40-45-15. " this seems really off to me,,does it to anyone else? 50% carbs is a ton of carbs! and where are they coming from? veggies, brown rice or white bread and pasta? I know its about calories in and out but this seems way off to me,,I do probably 60% protien,20% fat and 20% carbs,,this is where I feel my best.And not to be rude,but as some have asked,how does one get to be 186Lbs overweight if only eating 1300 cal a day as you stated? I think you need to revamp everything and start over from scratch,try a new approach because this one isnt working.0
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its obv shes either embarrased by her diary or doesnt actually log. So, im moving on.0
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I lost weight on both pregnancies while consuming much higher calories then I normally do. My Dr said it was the only time my metabolism functioned properly. I had gestational diabeties and am PCOS (it isn't as rare as one might think). I was on a low carb (diabetic diet) and this time do not max the carbs the nutritionist set for me. If it was 50 percent like yours I wouldn't lose weight either. Your protein is kindof low also.0
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its obv shes either embarrased by her diary or doesnt actually log. So, im moving on.
Me, too. (except I couldn't keep myself from one last ditch effort)
OP- noone defies the rules of physics. Even people with metabolic disorders (like me) can lose weight if we figure out our personal Calories in calories out. You said you have a medically tested BMR. Given how overweight you are starting, I would start there. Set ,your calorie goal to your BMR, WEIGH and log everything, and give it a few weeks. And I know we are used to assuming experts are actually experts but they are all human. So, if you do that religiously and still see no progress in 4 weeks, I would recommend going for second and third opinions on all your tests and looking for a new nutritionist0 -
My husband and I have been struggling with weight for some time now. When I first started on fitness pal, the thing that got me was all the little things you don't think about. Like the taste test of the food you are preparing, or the half teaspoon of honey that goes in your teas, the amount of dressing that goes in a salad, ketchup and mustard and such. What do you do for a living? Some jobs counter efforts to keep track of our food! Are you a stay at home mom, that tests all the food for her toddler? Somewhere there is more going in that is being used up. I figured I was running on about 2500 calories when I started. The first time I honestly recorded everything I was shocked to see over 3400 calories in my count! My downfall are coffee flavors and salad dressings, because I don't like the flavor of artificial sweeteners, I won't have "skinny" coffees or fat free/sugar free dressings, but I found that a little goes a long way! Chin up, you will figure it out and succeed in the end!0
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There are caveats to CICO which some people have a hard time acknowledging. Whether it's a difference in biochemistry that we don't fully understand or difficulty in calculating the CO part of the equation, I'm not sure. But the TYPE of calories will make a big difference for SOME people. For example, people with insulin resistance will lose more weight with the same amount of calories if less of their calories come from carbs because of the abnormal glucose metabolism issue with insulin resistance. They've done studies on this (for those that insist on seeing it, I'll look for it to be posted with an edit). So, for people with such issues, how they create the deficit makes a HUGE difference in their actual weight loss.
First, are you weighing everything you eat with a food scale so you're sure of your actual intake? If you're not doing this, I highly recommend doing this first to get an accurate picture of the CI part of the equation. This is probably the most common error most people make -- grossly underestimating their calories eaten. And, as others have pointed out, measuring spoons/cups aren't as accurate as weight for solids. Please do this first.
Second, if you're already weighing your food and confident in your intake, then you need to go to the doctor again and get things checked. I know you said you were fine, but I was told I was fine for over 10 years by 4 different doctors until I really researched issues myself, understood what tests needed to be done and what they meant. Then, bingo, I finally got the correct diagnosis and treatment --- and not only felt 1000x better, but also finally started losing weight like a "normal" person.
From my journey, I'm familiar with thyroid issues and insulin resistance. Do you know if you've had the following tests done for them and what their numbers were:
Thyroid -- Free T3, Free T4, TSH, both antibodies (TPO and Tg)
Insulin resistance -- A1C
Over 40% of US adults have insulin resistance in pre-diabetic or diabetic levels (2/3 of the pre-diabetic folks are undiagnosed) -- and that makes it very hard to lose weight and very easy to gain weight without the proper diet, and possibly medication. That's a LOT of people. 8% or so of the population have a thyroid disorder, 2/3 of which are undiagnosed.
I do use measuring cups for some things. I will be weighing more and eating out less to ensure more accurate calculations in the future ( thanks for the tips!).
I have had all of those tests done except A1c. They did a fasting glucose and it was fine. All of those tests (plus cortisol, and some other hormones) all came back normal.
I will talk to my nutritionist about insulin resistance and see what she thinks about changing my macros.
Thank you for the response!
Especially on the thyroid, I'd strongly recommend you look into what is "normal". There is a lot of differing opinions on it and adjustments in normal years. For example, previously you had to have a TSH over 5 to be considered hypo, now it's 3 and there is talk of lowering it into the 2s.
If you don't have any hypothyroid symptoms, then it's probably not an issue. But if you do -- difficulty losing weight, fatigue, dry skin/hair, brittle nails, constipation, intolerance to or feeling cold often (especially in the hands and feet), etc. -- then I'd really look into that further. Some people can be "within range" and still have horrible symptoms -- especially those with Hashi's as its an autoimmune disorder whose severity changes. For me personally, I don't get the symptom alleviation until I'm in the top 1/3 of the normal range for free T4 and free T3. If I'm low or even low-normal, I still have a lot of the symptoms.
I don't mean to harp on this, but it's just what I learned from my path. I'd seen 2 GPs and 2 endos previously and 3 of them ONLY tested TSH and 1 did TSH plus free T3 and free T4. None of them had ever done any antibody tests -- which is how Hashi's is diagnosed most frequently (and Hashi's is the MOST common thyroid disorder). Because of you have the antibodies, it's virtually impossible to know how many of them are binding up the Free T3 and Free T4 -- could be 10% or could be 80%. People with Hashi's (unless it's very advanced and most of your natural thyroid function is impaired) can have normal TSH, high TSH, or low TSH -- so it's not a very useful test for early stage Hashi's, even though you still have tons of the hypo symptoms.
That's just why I ask about all of those tests in particular. It wasn't until I finally sought out an out-of-network specialist and paid out of pocket for the extra tests that I finally got the proper diagnosis. And it infuriated me that I first suspected and sought out medical help more than 10 years prior -- and NONE of them did even the basic antibody tests. I've found that a lot of doctors, even endos (unless they specialize in thyroid or metabolism issues), really don't know much of anything beyond the TSH test.0 -
BodyMedia products aren't always accurate. It's basically a Fitbit that pretends to extract intelligent info from your arm skin. But if you had an RMR test and it matched, maybe yours is. Or maybe both are inaccurate.
I don't blame the OP for not opening her diary. In my opinion, she'll get 2-3 wise remarks and 2-3 dozen others telling her it's her sodium or water intake or frozen dinners or meal timing or macros.
The two other things that stick in my craw are (1) the nutritionist seems under-informed (as usual) and (2) 1300 calories being what you eat when you eat when unrestricted sounds like measurement error, because that is not much for someone of size.
But maybe you really do just have a huge range of adaptive thermogenesis and can maintain on 1300 or 2300. But your BMF should at least notice a big change in NEAT between the two levels. Did your BodyMedia calorie burn levels shoot up when you doubled your intake?0 -
For those interested in the study I mentioned, here it is: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2005.79/full
The gist is that two sets of women were given two different isocaloric diets (calculated 400 daily deficit) -- they both had the same amount of protein (20%) but one had 60% carbs and 20% fat (the low fat diet) and one had 40% carbs and 40% fat (the high fat diet). Half of the women were insulin sensitive and half were insulin resistant.
For the insulin sensitive women, those on the low fat (LF) diet lost nearly twice as much weight as their high fat (HF) counterparts -- 13.5% of their initial body weight versus 6.8%. For the insulin resistant women, it was nearly the exact opposite. Those on the HF diet lost 13.4% and those on the LF lost 8.5%. The differences in losses could not be accounted for in differences in resting metabolic rate, activity level, or intake.
That to me shows very clearly that it's not just about sheer caloric amount. That how one creates their caloric deficit can produce vastly different results based on their own circumstances.0 -
For those interested in the study I mentioned, here it is: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2005.79/full
The gist is that two sets of women were given two different isocaloric diets (calculated 400 daily deficit) -- they both had the same amount of protein (20%) but one had 60% carbs and 20% fat (the low fat diet) and one had 40% carbs and 40% fat (the high fat diet). Half of the women were insulin sensitive and half were insulin resistant.
For the insulin sensitive women, those on the low fat (LF) diet lost nearly twice as much weight as their high fat (HF) counterparts -- 13.5% of their initial body weight versus 6.8%. For the insulin resistant women, it was nearly the exact opposite. Those on the HF diet lost 13.4% and those on the LF lost 8.5%. The differences in losses could not be accounted for in differences in resting metabolic rate, activity level, or intake.
That to me shows very clearly that it's not just about sheer caloric amount. That how one creates their caloric deficit can produce vastly different results based on their own circumstances.
but the key here is that they ALL lost weight. So, yes, the weight less differed but the caloric deficit still worked to a degree. The OP should still be losing some weight (even if something is metabolically off) if she is in a caloric deficit and has been for 2 months0 -
See, I totally change my intake depending on whether or not I've worked out. I don't eat back all of my calories (probably half) and I'm losing, slow but steady.
I would look at trying that. I think eating the same amount of calories no matter what may be a hindrance.
Since you're not going to show us the diary (no judgement), I do have questions. Is your intake generally healthy? Are you being honest about what (not how much) is going into your body? Whole grains, vegetables, fruits, lean meats, good variety? Avoiding too much starch and fried foods? This will make a big difference.0 -
I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
I'm confused. Then why did you post here in the first place asking for help? What was the point? You already have a 'fantastic nutritionist' to guide you.
????0 -
I'm aware that looks suspicous and I have been lurking around for a while so I expected that. The reason I haven't is because I have a fantastic nutritionist who I meet with every two weeks. We go over my diary every time.OP at this point I am beginning to wonder why you won't open your diary? Multiple people have requested it in order to help you. I'm not trying to be accusatory but what is your reasoning for not wanting to?
I'm confused. Then why did you post here in the first place asking for help? What was the point? You already have a 'fantastic nutritionist' to guide you.
????
This...
Is it a nutritionist or a registered dietitian...There is actually a huge difference.0 -
For those interested in the study I mentioned, here it is: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2005.79/full
The gist is that two sets of women were given two different isocaloric diets (calculated 400 daily deficit) -- they both had the same amount of protein (20%) but one had 60% carbs and 20% fat (the low fat diet) and one had 40% carbs and 40% fat (the high fat diet). Half of the women were insulin sensitive and half were insulin resistant.
For the insulin sensitive women, those on the low fat (LF) diet lost nearly twice as much weight as their high fat (HF) counterparts -- 13.5% of their initial body weight versus 6.8%. For the insulin resistant women, it was nearly the exact opposite. Those on the HF diet lost 13.4% and those on the LF lost 8.5%. The differences in losses could not be accounted for in differences in resting metabolic rate, activity level, or intake.
That to me shows very clearly that it's not just about sheer caloric amount. That how one creates their caloric deficit can produce vastly different results based on their own circumstances.
but the key here is that they ALL lost weight. So, yes, the weight less differed but the caloric deficit still worked to a degree. The OP should still be losing some weight (even if something is metabolically off) if she is in a caloric deficit and has been for 2 months
I don't think that's the key. If that's all you took away from it, wow.
Yes, they did lose weight. But depending on how you manipulate the numbers, I imagine there would be groups that would maintain and others would lose. Either way, how the deficit was created resulted in vastly different weight loss numbers. So, it's totally possible that if the OP adjusts her macros or something else, she could start losing again. Given how heavy she is, she likely has IR -- so that 50% carb macro could be blocking her weight loss, like it does for many people who have IR.
If she's very confident in her thyroid issues, then that would be my next suggestion -- cutting back the carbs and eliminating all high GI carbs in particular. Then, see if she starts to drop weight on her calories.0 -
I'm confused. Then why did you post here in the first place asking for help? What was the point? You already have a 'fantastic nutritionist' to guide you.
????
This is what I've been wondering! No one is trying to say your nutritionist isn't good or change your opinon of her. But you go over your diary with her and she doesn't have any answers. Maybe someone here can think of something she hasn't.0 -
I'm going to jump in just for a moment. I'm not a nutritionist, but have a close friend who is (seriously) and who's looked this over. I also have struggled with weight loss in the past and FINALLY found a solution that seems to be working (10 lbs later). Here are my $0.02 - and for what it's worth, I'm at high risk for diabetes myself what with family history, so *type* of food is becoming as important as *amount* of food for me.
First, CICO is truth, with the caveat that certain metabolic disorders can play heavily into how or why you retain fat. If you have one, you adjust for it or take medication as needed. If you don't, the only real reason for not losing at all is miscalculation somewhere. Look closely at what you're logging.
**I will state outright that I don't weigh my food and I'm not the best example in that regard. I pay close attention to labels, but slip up a little on numbers here and there. I eat some crap at times, log it as accurately as I can, and move on.
Second, eating too little might help you drop weight, but is extremely unhealthy, so I'm glad to hear you've upped intake. You've already done the numbers. Averaging TDEE on a per-week basis by using a digital activity log--in my case, Fitbit, and I know you have a BodyMedia--and setting my eating goals based on that average has worked wonders for me. For example, last week's average TDEE was 2200. Since my calculated BMR is 1520, I should be aiming for between 1520 and 1700 in order to see a difference. I also feel okay eating a little more on more active days, as I know I need the fuel and I know I won't eat as much the next day.
Is your BodyMedia syncing directly to your MFP diaries, by the way?
Third, I cut out a few things I knew were doing me in, such as cream and sugar in my coffee and having more than one caffeinated drink a day. I don't much like cookies and candy, so that wasn't an issue, but I *do* love breads and pastas. I'm eating less of those and getting more protein (I was woefully low when I started).
While the basic truth is CICO, as mentioned, processed carbs are "comfort foods" for me which means I will eat more of them if they're on the table AND, because of my need to pay attention to blood sugar, the fact that they have a high glycemic index is a red flag no-no icky badness. A freaking baguette has a glycemic index of 95. NINETY. FIVE. *sigh* I can still have a piece, but gone are the days of tearing off pieces of bread and soaking them in olive oil. I might do it once every year or so.
Fourth, I'm taking a GNC Women's vitamin daily. I feel better for it and it helps me focus and be more active.
Fifth, stop overthinking. Just do.
I hope some of this info helps. Feel free to friend me - my diary is open *to friends*.0 -
Bad logging. Your diary doesn't mean a thing if it's not accurate. Weigh everything.
Also, 20% protein seems really low coming from a supposedly 'great' nutritionist.0 -
My THS is .4 and my Dr. (whom I plan to fire soon) tells me this is fine. It is what brought me here, so that I could see what I was really eating! I gain and gain and gain, and only when I keep my CI to a strict (weighed) 1500 with 2 hours of 3.5mph walking per day, do I stop gaining, and then just sit here, at 150lbs. I am on nothyroid meds yet. Argh!
She is NOT going to open her diary! You who keep pestering about it know why. But we can offer support anyways. OP- I hope you get it figured out soon so you can begin to lose the weight! Don't let the naggers get to you. There are people on her that will help you in the ways you need and want. Thank you for your post.0 -
but the key here is that they ALL lost weight. So, yes, the weight less differed but the caloric deficit still worked to a degree. The OP should still be losing some weight (even if something is metabolically off) if she is in a caloric deficit and has been for 2 months
I don't think that's the key. If that's all you took away from it, wow.
Yes, they did lose weight. But depending on how you manipulate the numbers, I imagine there would be groups that would maintain and others would lose. Either way, how the deficit was created resulted in vastly different weight loss numbers. So, it's totally possible that if the OP adjusts her macros or something else, she could start losing again. Given how heavy she is, she likely has IR -- so that 50% carb macro could be blocking her weight loss, like it does for many people who have IR.
If she's very confident in her thyroid issues, then that would be my next suggestion -- cutting back the carbs and eliminating all high GI carbs in particular. Then, see if she starts to drop weight on her calories.
That's not all I took away from the information. But, what is key to the current situation is that the OP should in fact lose weight eating at a deficit even if at an impaired rate. Esp since she said she usually hits 40% carbs vs the recommended 50% carbs (which is the same as all the IR/LC study participants).
Also, she is not diagnosed with IR so while I agree it is not unlikely for her to have it, I would assume she has been tested for it since they supposedly tested for everything under god's little acre.
What I'm getting at s basically Occam's Razor- the simplest explanation is usually the truth. The simplest explanation is that she is eating at TDEE through errors in logging
P.S. I actually know all about the importance of eating a reduced carb diet for weight loss and health with IR - I have PCOS and IR and have my macros set to approx 25% (though I usually eat a little more) . I usually eat less than 100 net carbs a day0
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