The great weight lifting debate
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That work out is for a mesomorph, not an endomorph like me. I am obese, limiting the amount of cardio I do is not recommended. That is weight loss 101.
I have a body type that easily gains weight then cardio everyday is essential. If you are going to give standard advise that is not taking into account my body type, then I appreciate your time but it is not advice that is useful.
This is 100% incorrect. Endomorph, mesomorph, and ectomorph - all that nonsense (that was defined by a psychologist) has been debunked. The information you have been given in this thread is correct. As Yoda once said, "you must unlearn what you have learned." The reason you felt like you weren't getting enough out of your workout is because, unfortunately, you don't know what you're doing. Follow the advice you've been given, and you'll succeed.0 -
You seem really defensive about getting advice. Why did you ask for it?
I think what they meant by "easy peasy" is "don't stress." Lots of people have used those popular programs with success, so I'm guessing they're saying pick a popular program that is popular for a reason.
I lost my weight doing cardio and heavy weights both. I ate about 1800 calories per day. Visually, I started out about where you are.
P.S. I also believe in body types. Arnold is a mesomorph. I don't care if other people don't believe in them. meh.0 -
There is no debate. You should lift weights; regardless of your body type. Whether you're an apple, onion, pear, or whatever, there are both long term health and weight loss benefits.
As far as your program is concerned, I think it can be simplified. You'll notice far more gains if you focus on your entire body in every workout. I would suggest a full body workout that looks something like this:
10-15 minute cardio. Bench press, Lat Pull down, Squats, Weighted Row, and Overhead press. If you feel like you must, you can do additional isolation exercises such as curls, tricep pulldowns, knee extension, etc. Shoot to do three sets for each exercise with 6-8 reps apiece. If you can do more than that, you need to up your weights. The last set should be a struggle. When you get to the point where you can do three sets of eight with no problems, add weight.
Do that every other day, three days a week. If you're ambitious, do cardio to fill out the days in between and then throw in a full-on rest day. So something like:
m: full body weighted workout
t: cardio
w: full body weighted workout
t: cardio
f: full body weighted workout
s: cardio
s: Rest
As for a full body work out, again that has not really worked for me: I only have limited time in the gym at 45 minutes due to my job so if I work all of my body each day it is never balanced as one part of my body would lose out, plus I am yet to understand the benefit of full body over isolation. I have not read anything to suggest that one is better than the other.
Then you're not reading the right things. Pretty much everyone will say full body program for a beginner. Stronglifts only takes 30 mins 3 times a week and is a full body workout. It's a great workout. You don't need to be spending 3 hours in the gym to get a good workout in.
^^^ QFT. Due to my working hours, the vast majority of my strength training workouts are 20-25 minutes. 45 minutes will be MORE than adequate to get serious results. Compound/full-body movements ARE more effective; even the frou-frou girly magazines will tell you that doing full-body movements will give you more bang for your buck than isolation movements.0 -
The reason it's the standard advice is because it really does apply to pretty much everybody. Unless you have some underlying medical condition you forgot to mention, the advice people are giving you is what will work best. Quit trying to over-complicate this, weight loss just really does not have to be personally modified for the individual user.0
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That work out is for a mesomorph, not an endomorph like me. I am obese, limiting the amount of cardio I do is not recommended. That is weight loss 101.
I have a body type that easily gains weight then cardio everyday is essential. If you are going to give standard advise that is not taking into account my body type, then I appreciate your time but it is not advice that is useful.
Your body type is irrelevant.
Please read this:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html
He is saying your body type does not matter if you 'eat less and move more'. So long as you eat less and move more you will lose weight. The amount less that you eat and the amount more you lose is based on body type or men and women would not have different RDA for calorie intake.
In any case, not really relevant to my point. It is simple scientific fact that if you put people of a different body type on exactly the same diet & exercise plan, you will get different results. That is just like basic science.0 -
4) I, perhaps incorrectly, INTERPRET your comment that it is 'easy peasy' is patronising.
^^^ FIXED.
Seriously, don't get so defensive/argumentative. People are trying to give you solid advice.0 -
Body part splits were invented in the steroid era of bodybuilding. Before steroids came around everyone did total body. When you are on steroids your body has massively increased protein synthesis post workout. You can hit arms on Monday and they are still benefiting from the workout on Friday. A natural (someone not on drugs) does not have that kind of result. If you hit arms on Monday they are about done benefiting by Wednesday. Natural lifters should try and hit all body parts 2-3 times a week. Doing either total body 3x a week or an upper/lower split 4 days a week is ideal. For anyone who isn't lifting intermediate level weights, total body 3x a week is best. There is a reason every single decent beginners program is total body 3x a week, they just flat out work better.
As for a full body work out, again that has not really worked for me: I only have limited time in the gym at 45 minutes due to my job so if I work all of my body each day it is never balanced as one part of my body would lose out, plus I am yet to understand the benefit of full body over isolation. I have not read anything to suggest that one is better than the other.0 -
I have been doing research on this myself, and I have found, and have been told by my helpful MFP community that a balance of both cardio and heavy lifting is a must. But I really want to note your calories are too low. Do some reading on TDEE and BMR you might want to bring your calorie range up to your TDEE - 10 or 20% - and make sure your getting protein to help repair your muscles. Even on your lift rest days and just cardio days.
Good luck0 -
That work out is for a mesomorph, not an endomorph like me. I am obese, limiting the amount of cardio I do is not recommended. That is weight loss 101.
I have a body type that easily gains weight then cardio everyday is essential. If you are going to give standard advise that is not taking into account my body type, then I appreciate your time but it is not advice that is useful.
Your body type is irrelevant.
Please read this:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html
He is saying your body type does not matter if you 'eat less and move more'. So long as you eat less and move more you will lose weight. The amount less that you eat and the amount more you lose is based on body type or men and women would not have different RDA for calorie intake.
In any case, not really relevant to my point. It is simple scientific fact that if you put people of a different body type on exactly the same diet & exercise plan, you will get different results. That is just like basic science.
Ok, this is the point where I have to ask for the peer reviewed study that proves this.0 -
That work out is for a mesomorph, not an endomorph like me. I am obese, limiting the amount of cardio I do is not recommended. That is weight loss 101.
I have a body type that easily gains weight then cardio everyday is essential. If you are going to give standard advise that is not taking into account my body type, then I appreciate your time but it is not advice that is useful.
Your body type is irrelevant.
Please read this:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html
He is saying your body type does not matter if you 'eat less and move more'. So long as you eat less and move more you will lose weight. The amount less that you eat and the amount more you lose is based on body type or men and women would not have different RDA for calorie intake.
In any case, not really relevant to my point. It is simple scientific fact that if you put people of a different body type on exactly the same diet & exercise plan, you will get different results. That is just like basic science.
Your calorie needs are determined largely by your size and your activity levels and there's some individual component to this as well but this is not the same thing as "body type". Your shape, or your somatotype (ecto/endo/meso) are 100% irrelevant.
If you put people on a calorie deficit they will lose weight and if you put people on a calorie surplus they will gain weight. This happens regardless of their body type, because science.0 -
2 cents from a thread reader....
I understand why you read the "easy peasy" comment the way you did, but I don't think that was the way it was intended.
I think it was meant to convey that starting out on a good program that would help you achieve results, build strength and gain some gym knowledge is not necessarily a monumental / scary / overwhelming thing. Pick a well known, structured program that moves you along without overwhelming you and you're good to go! Here are two, just pick one of them! And picking one thing out of two is in fact... "easy peasy". ;O)
Sticking to your nutrition plan? Sicking to you exercise routine? Making all the life adjustments necessary for you to do that... NOT easy.0 -
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If you are lifting heavy, you need to eat more than 1200 calories. I'm 5'5'', 229 pounds and I lift heavy. I'm at 1970 calories a day and I am losing weight.
Is that 1970 fixed? because I generally tend to eat about 1500-1600 but I just make sure I burn 300-400 calories. If I ate 1970 calories (so 2200- 2300) I gain weight. That is just a fact as I have done it.
I was eating 2000 calories and still going to the gym, burning the same amount and I gained weight.
Fair play to you if you can get away with it!0 -
Yes, you should lift heavy weight using compound lifts. That will be most effective for you while eating at a deficit.
Not sure what else you are looking for.
Pick a program that focuses on these to save yourself time since you don't have much of it to workout. StrongLifts 5x5 is efficient and will work for you. If you like the cardio, then continue to do it.
All this has been stated already, but you've somewhat ignored it as not applying to you. As someone mentioned, if you don't have a medical condition that your are mentioning, then this is perfectly fine for you to do.0 -
Simplify...choose a program such as Strong lifts or Starting strength and do your lifting 3x a week.
easy peasy.
1) Not trying to gain muscle, trying to lose weight is my primary goal
2) In order to lose weight you need to eat at a deficit: eat less move more
3) again, you are giving me standard information and not information that is useful
4) Your comment that it is 'easy peasy' is patronising. If it was 'Easy peasy' why would I be seeking advice?
Caloric deficit means you won't gain muscle. You will, however, retain the muscle you have, and shift the proportion of weight lost to fat (instead of muscle), if you lift heavy.
No one said you didn't need to eat at a deficit, but most of us see 1200 as a red flag, especially with intense working out. The odds are usually that you don't need to go that low.
Take a look a Starting Strength or StrongLifts. They're compound workouts and take about 30 minutes to complete. It's a lot easier to do than the complex routine you're trying to do, and you'll likely see better results from it. And yes, it really is that easy. The fitness magazines and whatnot have confused you and you're overthinking it, that's what everyone here is trying to show you.
A "full body" routine does not mean you do lunges and curls and ab twists and and and... (though admittedly, a lot of the people left out the crucial "compound movement" part). Squats get your entire posterior chain and core; bench presses get your arms, shoulders, chest, and to a lesser extent, back; deadlifts get your core, glutes, and thighs. They do it in one movement, in one exercise.
Cardio isn't terrible for weight loss, but it's not great, either, particularly steady state cardio. Cardio is largely just strength training for your cardiovascular system (aka your heart). You don't need cardio to lose weight, and if you do a good, challenging routine like StrongLifts, you'll probably find you need those rest days in between more than you need the cardio.
Also: http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/0 -
AGREE! I was an "endomorph" when I was obese. Looking at me now most people would say "mesomorph". I didn't change my body type, I simply lost weight. Pretty much every obese person looks like and endomorph and any fit person looks like a mesomorph. There aren't specific workouts for specific body types. Sure different people have different weak points in their body to bring up but you need to at least move in to the intermediate stage of lifting to worry about that. As a beginning lifter everything is a weak point.That work out is for a mesomorph, not an endomorph like me. I am obese, limiting the amount of cardio I do is not recommended. That is weight loss 101.
I have a body type that easily gains weight then cardio everyday is essential. If you are going to give standard advise that is not taking into account my body type, then I appreciate your time but it is not advice that is useful.
This is 100% incorrect. Endomorph, mesomorph, and ectomorph - all that nonsense (that was defined by a psychologist) has been debunked. The information you have been given in this thread is correct. As Yoda once said, "you must unlearn what you have learned." The reason you felt like you weren't getting enough out of your workout is because, unfortunately, you don't know what you're doing. Follow the advice you've been given, and you'll succeed.0 -
If you are lifting heavy, you need to eat more than 1200 calories. I'm 5'5'', 229 pounds and I lift heavy. I'm at 1970 calories a day and I am losing weight.
This is not true. In fact you shouldn't be on caloric restriction without lifting heavy. Studies show that weight loss and muscle retention are both very effective with low calorie resistance training.
Now that being said optimal strength training doesn't mean just lifting weights. It should be appropriate strength training methods which involves either dynamic effort training (speed strength) or maximal effort training.
Sorry, can you clarify, are you saying you should not be on a calorie controlled diet if you are lifting heavy, or you should be on a calorie controlled diet if you are heavy lifting? The article had too much maths for me0 -
He's saying you should not be in a caloric deficit WITHOUT lifting. Lifting while in a deficit helps preserve muscle mass to ensure that the majority of the weight you lose is fat.If you are lifting heavy, you need to eat more than 1200 calories. I'm 5'5'', 229 pounds and I lift heavy. I'm at 1970 calories a day and I am losing weight.
This is not true. In fact you shouldn't be on caloric restriction without lifting heavy. Studies show that weight loss and muscle retention are both very effective with low calorie resistance training.
Now that being said optimal strength training doesn't mean just lifting weights. It should be appropriate strength training methods which involves either dynamic effort training (speed strength) or maximal effort training.
Sorry, can you clarify, are you saying you should not be on a calorie controlled diet if you are lifting heavy, or you should be on a calorie controlled diet if you are heavy lifting? The article had too much maths for me0 -
Once I stopped putting down the girly fitness magazines and started lifting heavy, I saw the most progress in my body. You don't need to spend tons of time at the gym. I workout on my lunch break, 30 mins or so. Check out stronglifts 5x5, there's even a free phone app you can use to log your workouts. It's compound lifts so it works your whole body. 3 different lifts, 5 reps, 5 sets... that's all you need. You don't need to wait until you are closer to your goal weight. You should also check out New Rules of Lifting for Women. Pretty much says that heavy lifting along with a good diet (i.e. TDEE less 20% with enough protein) will burn body fat, with or without cardio.
Thank you for 1) actually reading my question, 2) making a clear response 3) adding your personal experience and results. Most useful response so far. I know compund lifts have been mentioned before in a response I dismissed, but yours makes a lot more sense. Though, what it TDEE?0 -
Once I stopped putting down the girly fitness magazines and started lifting heavy, I saw the most progress in my body. You don't need to spend tons of time at the gym. I workout on my lunch break, 30 mins or so. Check out stronglifts 5x5, there's even a free phone app you can use to log your workouts. It's compound lifts so it works your whole body. 3 different lifts, 5 reps, 5 sets... that's all you need. You don't need to wait until you are closer to your goal weight. You should also check out New Rules of Lifting for Women. Pretty much says that heavy lifting along with a good diet (i.e. TDEE less 20% with enough protein) will burn body fat, with or without cardio.
Thank you for 1) actually reading my question, 2) making a clear response 3) adding your personal experience and results. Most useful response so far. I know compund lifts have been mentioned before in a response I dismissed, but yours makes a lot more sense. Though, what it TDEE?
Just so there isn't confusion when you look up StrongLifts, it's 3 different exercises each day, but only 5 total that you'll need to learn.0
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