The great weight lifting debate
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Your calorie needs are determined largely by your size and your activity levels and there's some individual component to this as well but this is not the same thing as "body type". Your shape, or your somatotype (ecto/endo/meso) are 100% irrelevant.
If you put people on a calorie deficit they will lose weight and if you put people on a calorie surplus they will gain weight. This happens regardless of their body type, because science.
Agree here but it is more how much how quickly and when they plateau: when your body gets wise to your weight loss attempts and corrects itself.0 -
2 cents from a thread reader....
I understand why you read the "easy peasy" comment the way you did, but I don't think that was the way it was intended.
I think it was meant to convey that starting out on a good program that would help you achieve results, build strength and gain some gym knowledge is not necessarily a monumental / scary / overwhelming thing. Pick a well known, structured program that moves you along without overwhelming you and you're good to go! Here are two, just pick one of them! And picking one thing out of two is in fact... "easy peasy". ;O)
Sticking to your nutrition plan? Sicking to you exercise routine? Making all the life adjustments necessary for you to do that... NOT easy.
Thank you for understanding.0 -
Yes, you should lift heavy weight using compound lifts. That will be most effective for you while eating at a deficit.
Not sure what else you are looking for.
Pick a program that focuses on these to save yourself time since you don't have much of it to workout. StrongLifts 5x5 is efficient and will work for you. If you like the cardio, then continue to do it.
All this has been stated already, but you've somewhat ignored it as not applying to you. As someone mentioned, if you don't have a medical condition that your are mentioning, then this is perfectly fine for you to do.
Thank you, that is essentially what I was looking for.
A few points distracted from my initial question (obviously), or were presented in a way that did not come across as helpful. If that was my interpretation fair enough.0 -
A simple statement like "easy peasy" annoys you that much? Um...o-k then. Perhaps the internet is not for you. :huh:
Do you normally take things the worst way possible?
There are some very experienced, knowledgeable people posting to you. Hopefully, you read this thread with an open mind instead of assuming people are somehow against you.0 -
Your calorie needs are determined largely by your size and your activity levels and there's some individual component to this as well but this is not the same thing as "body type". Your shape, or your somatotype (ecto/endo/meso) are 100% irrelevant.
If you put people on a calorie deficit they will lose weight and if you put people on a calorie surplus they will gain weight. This happens regardless of their body type, because science.
Agree here but it is more how much how quickly and when they plateau: when your body gets wise to your weight loss attempts and corrects itself.
Hi! I'm going to answer you as an individual, not at a troll, so here's hoping my advice is received and utilized.
Your body doesn't "get wise" to your attempt to drop pounds. It's not trying to sabotage you or keep fat on itself. Your body is, for all intents and purposes, a machine. It reacts to what you fuel it with, and if it isn't receiving enough fuel to complete its daily activities, it finds alternate fuel (your fat) and burns that.
If you eat at a HUGE deficit (judging from your picture, 1200-1400 calories a day is A HUGE deficit for you) your body will drop weight fast. Then, when you weigh less, it will be harder to drop weight at that same caloric intake, because your body NEEDS fewer calories every day to function.
The best and most sustainable way to drop your fat (I assume you'd like to keep your muscle mass, or build more?) is to eat at a deficit of 100-200 calories a day. Eat as MUCH AS YOU CAN, in fact, and do as LITTLE CARDIO AS POSSIBLE while STILL dropping weight. Because then, when you weigh less, you can reduce the calories and input more cardio, so plateaus won't be as big a hurdle.
What you're doing by eating 1200-1400 calories at this point is setting yourself up for failure and rebound.0 -
Hi,
I am not a weight lifting expert but I would have to agree with previous posters that there is no reason to delay heavier weight lifting based on having an hourglass shape. You have also been given some excellent advice about where to start (5 x 5 stronglifts is excellent!). In addition to the physical results I thought you might want to hear from another hourglass about other benefits (my measurements are 41-31-41 with a goal to get to 38-28-38).
- losing inches while gaining muscle helps keep you motivated to stay on track with both diet and workouts (getting slimmer is visually appealing but getting slimmer and seeing sexy indents in the side of your thighs and the curve of your bicips is priceless!)
- heavy lifting will keep those curves "high and proud". This is probably TMI but it isn't realistic to expect that using little 3 lbs weights will build enough muscle to support the "girls" over the long-term
- perhaps you went through puberty unscathed but being an earlier bloomer wrecked havoc on my self-esteem and I took on the labels of being "mushy" and "built for comfort not for speed". I also felt clumsy and avoided sports. Starting to lift weights in my 20s was key to getting rid of this negativity and becoming the "kick-*kitten* amazon goddess" I aspired to be.
- the balance of hormones that tend to result in an hourglass shape often also result in a bit of a slugish metabolism. Weight lifting helps increase metabolism and speed up weight loss.
As an hourglass I have found that lifting weights has helped offset some of the potentially negative aspects of being an hourglass (or on a better note, positively highlight). My best girlfriend is very tall and slender and she finds that lifting weights makes her more feminine and curvy. Point being, weight lifting does the female body good!0 -
Your calorie needs are determined largely by your size and your activity levels and there's some individual component to this as well but this is not the same thing as "body type". Your shape, or your somatotype (ecto/endo/meso) are 100% irrelevant.
If you put people on a calorie deficit they will lose weight and if you put people on a calorie surplus they will gain weight. This happens regardless of their body type, because science.
Agree here but it is more how much how quickly and when they plateau: when your body gets wise to your weight loss attempts and corrects itself.
There is a point yes where you have lost enough weight (esp if you start of extremely overweight) where you have to lower your calories to reflect that.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1320009-why-checking-the-numbers-matters
A body does not get wise to calorie intake and correct itself, we as humans fail to recheck numbers...see post above., it goes with surplus and it adds weight, deficit loses weight...plateau's are a nice word for eating at maitenance...0 -
Your calorie needs are determined largely by your size and your activity levels and there's some individual component to this as well but this is not the same thing as "body type". Your shape, or your somatotype (ecto/endo/meso) are 100% irrelevant.
If you put people on a calorie deficit they will lose weight and if you put people on a calorie surplus they will gain weight. This happens regardless of their body type, because science.
Agree here but it is more how much how quickly and when they plateau: when your body gets wise to your weight loss attempts and corrects itself.
Hi! I'm going to answer you as an individual, not at a troll, so here's hoping my advice is received and utilized.
Your body doesn't "get wise" to your attempt to drop pounds. It's not trying to sabotage you or keep fat on itself. Your body is, for all intents and purposes, a machine. It reacts to what you fuel it with, and if it isn't receiving enough fuel to complete its daily activities, it finds alternate fuel (your fat) and burns that.
If you eat at a HUGE deficit (judging from your picture, 1200-1400 calories a day is A HUGE deficit for you) your body will drop weight fast. Then, when you weigh less, it will be harder to drop weight at that same caloric intake, because your body NEEDS fewer calories every day to function.
The best and most sustainable way to drop your fat (I assume you'd like to keep your muscle mass, or build more?) is to eat at a deficit of 100-200 calories a day. Eat as MUCH AS YOU CAN, in fact, and do as LITTLE CARDIO AS POSSIBLE while STILL dropping weight. Because then, when you weigh less, you can reduce the calories and input more cardio, so plateaus won't be as big a hurdle.
What you're doing by eating 1200-1400 calories at this point is setting yourself up for failure and rebound.
Your body will try to create an environment of homeostasis. So, what she said isn't that far off. The reasons you gave, though, are accurate in that creating too big a deficit will make overcoming plateaus extremely difficult.0 -
A simple statement like "easy peasy" annoys you that much? Um...o-k then. Perhaps the internet is not for you. :huh:
Do you normally take things the worst way possible?
There are some very experienced, knowledgeable people posting to you. Hopefully, you read this thread with an open mind instead of assuming people are somehow against you.
QFT.0 -
.
This is primarily a question for those who are familiar with weight loss and the hourglass figure, do I lift weights or not? Here’s the background to my current work out plan:
Also, I was not asking if I should or should not lift weights, but if I should lift heavy weight or light weights.
ummm....yeah you did0 -
Everybody should probably strength train. I'm not suggesting cutting cardio but honestly strength training helps more. Especially heavy compound exercises. They stimulate the production of growth hormone and stimulate large muscle groups right down to your small support muscles. Doing lots of reps at light weight is generally done to build muscle MASS. And is pretty useless while dieting. Far better to lift heavy and improve strength.
Want my advice though. If you are heavy the best god damn thing you an do for weight loss is walk. Literally the heavier you are the more effective it is. It's also very easy to build up to long walks with little training. And is relatively easy on the joints. I went from getting tired going 2 streets down the road to doing 6-8 hours of walking a week in a couple of months. And considering My weight and the weight I carry I typically burn 500cals/hour or thereabouts. I'm probably a lot heavier than you but you see my point.
Basically my understanding of exercise is as follows.
Strength exercises .. High Intensity, High Weight Low Rep- For building muscle Strength primarily (Note : I'm not saying you wont get mass) Also notably improves insulin resistance making it easier to lose weight.
Strength exercises .. Low intensity/weight High Rep - For building muscle Mass primarily (Note : Not saying you won't get strength)
Also no matter what kind you do compound exercises. are better for triggering the release of growth hormones that help to both preserve and build muscle.
Cardio Short and Intense or Hit training - For improving the bodies ability to generate energy on demand. Allows the body to put out more energy. Improves metabolism associated with weight loss. Best done early in the day.
Cardio Low intensity long duration - Improves stamina and burns a large volume of calories upfront.0 -
Wow! this thread was a doozy!
OP - There's tons of good information here and if you'd rather not follow the advice given read these links instead (tho its pretty much the same stuff you've been told here):
This one is really good:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants
This one is my new favorite. It makes so much sense!
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1318741-in-5-weeks-you-ll-lose-10lbs-why-is-it-not-working
Good luck0 -
OP--body type and lifting aren't working in my head. But if you are an hourglass shape and want a 1/2 hour shape, then lift, period.0
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Didn't read the entire thing...but just speaking of body type...I am pear shaped. I lift weight and run. But my thighs are still worse than the rest of my body. So IMHO body shapes do play some part in reaching ultimate goals...but I guess it goes back to "we should be all realistic".0
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Caloric deficit means you won't gain muscle. You will, however, retain the muscle you have, and shift the proportion of weight lost to fat (instead of muscle), if you lift heavy.
No one said you didn't need to eat at a deficit, but most of us see 1200 as a red flag, especially with intense working out. The odds are usually that you don't need to go that low.
Take a look a Starting Strength or StrongLifts. They're compound workouts and take about 30 minutes to complete. It's a lot easier to do than the complex routine you're trying to do, and you'll likely see better results from it. And yes, it really is that easy. The fitness magazines and whatnot have confused you and you're overthinking it, that's what everyone here is trying to show you.
A "full body" routine does not mean you do lunges and curls and ab twists and and and... (though admittedly, a lot of the people left out the crucial "compound movement" part). Squats get your entire posterior chain and core; bench presses get your arms, shoulders, chest, and to a lesser extent, back; deadlifts get your core, glutes, and thighs. They do it in one movement, in one exercise.
Cardio isn't terrible for weight loss, but it's not great, either, particularly steady state cardio. Cardio is largely just strength training for your cardiovascular system (aka your heart). You don't need cardio to lose weight, and if you do a good, challenging routine like StrongLifts, you'll probably find you need those rest days in between more than you need the cardio.
Also: http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
I have been working at a calorific deficit and have still gained muscle, though this is not my primary goal. I guess I go against the odds. I am looking to get slimmer not build up muscle or muscle definition (my body apparently disagrees with my intentions and is building muscle relatively quickly but not shifting fat as fast so I get a spike in weight and then a slow drop).
I think there is some confusion that I am trying to go for Trish Warren,more Kelly Brook.0 -
1) you said you thought some of the 11kg gained was muscle...it was not.
2) Yes i know how to lose weight, hence my comment about maintaining muscle mass as it is hard to gain back once you lost it. Which you will if you don't eat enough protien and do a heavy lifting program or some for of resistence training.
3) If you looked at the information being reference you would see how useful it is
4)my comment easy peasy means that the programs I mentioned are a lot less complicated than what you are doing now.
I have personally been lifting for 10 months, on MFP for 1 year and have lost over 50lbs in 18months. I have lost a total of 21 inches doing heavy lifting and resistence training.
If you want to lose the fat, maintain your muscle and lose inches research the programs mentioned, find which one suits you best or something similar and follow it and eat enough food to keep you from feeling like crap...and net 1200 is not the amount when you are heavy lifting.
All through my time hear I have eaten 1600-1800 calories a day and lost consistent weight. 1500 calories if logged correctly and accurately is not going to make you gain weight.
Buy a kitchen scale, weight your solids, measure your liquids and choose correct entries, lift heavy, eat your protien.
edited cause I wear tinfoil today.
If it was not muscle that I gained, then why was my body firmer and I could see more toning to my arms? (not being argumentative, just asking the question). When I was in recovery I couldn't exercise so I know that there will have been some, shall we say bad weight gain.
I have been lifting for about 2 years and have built up to the current weights I lift. I didn't start losing inches (I don't want to say weight) until I was lifting with a calorie deficit.
I have a wheat intolerance so I don't eat many carbs. I typically have boiled egg with an oat cake for breakfast, meat and salad for lunch, and meat with sweet potato, or rice, or veg for dinner. I snack on nuts sometimes fruit usually and if I get a craving to snack beyond that I will suck on a mint (weirdly, I only ever want to over snack on a rest day. Could be to do with boredom). I weigh all my food and have been for 2 years, other than when I was in hospital.
I can only apply any advice I have been given to my own experience. If I have offended anyone because I did not see their advice as useful then I apologise, but that is the thing with advice, you can give it but you can not make or demand someone follows it. More fool me if I do not take it, but as I said I can only use my actual experience (which takes out valid assumptions that you would have to make as you do not follow me everywhere and watch what I eat)0 -
Maybe I am being defensive, but really saying easy peasy to someone who is asking for advise on something they are clearly struggling with can (intentionally or not) be seen as patronisting. Your interpretation is different from mine as you do seem to be at your goal. When you were heavier, if someone said, just do this it is easy peasy and you did not see it as patronising then you are a better woman than I!
In any event, the advise that you are giving is relevant, so moving on: did your 1800 take into account burned calories or is that just what you stuck to irrespective of how much exercise you did? And in relation to heavy lifting do you mean as much as you can carry comfortably or like what some else mentioned (which was useful) to the pint that the last rep is a fight.
I still have a good 80 pounds or so to lose, and losing what I've already lost has been a battle (thanks to medical issues that hinder things). I didn't interpret it as patronizing, but more as "it doesn't have to be hard or take forever to do, you're overthinking it." That said, I can understand how you'd be more likely to jump on the defensive, because it's you who are currently struggling and are frustrated.
When it comes to lifting, "heavy" is defined as "enough that the last few reps in your last set is difficult, and you might sometimes completely fail to lift it."
Don't think about that too much right now, though. Go grab one of the beginner programs. They usually start you off light, in part so that you can learn good form, and increase the weight at regular intervals (as much as every workout session). You'll very soon find where your "heavy" is at, and at that point, you'll start making progress.
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Define beginner, because I worked up to the weight I am lifting over the last couple of years. Is it to do with what you have read or what you have learned about your body? (again, not being argumentative, genuine question)0 -
He's saying you should not be in a caloric deficit WITHOUT lifting. Lifting while in a deficit helps preserve muscle mass to ensure that the majority of the weight you lose is fat.If you are lifting heavy, you need to eat more than 1200 calories. I'm 5'5'', 229 pounds and I lift heavy. I'm at 1970 calories a day and I am losing weight.
This is not true. In fact you shouldn't be on caloric restriction without lifting heavy. Studies show that weight loss and muscle retention are both very effective with low calorie resistance training.
Now that being said optimal strength training doesn't mean just lifting weights. It should be appropriate strength training methods which involves either dynamic effort training (speed strength) or maximal effort training.
Sorry, can you clarify, are you saying you should not be on a calorie controlled diet if you are lifting heavy, or you should be on a calorie controlled diet if you are heavy lifting? The article had too much maths for me
Two very contradicting points....I agree with one but that does not mean it is right. I guess on this I will need to do my own research.0 -
Once I stopped putting down the girly fitness magazines and started lifting heavy, I saw the most progress in my body. You don't need to spend tons of time at the gym. I workout on my lunch break, 30 mins or so. Check out stronglifts 5x5, there's even a free phone app you can use to log your workouts. It's compound lifts so it works your whole body. 3 different lifts, 5 reps, 5 sets... that's all you need. You don't need to wait until you are closer to your goal weight. You should also check out New Rules of Lifting for Women. Pretty much says that heavy lifting along with a good diet (i.e. TDEE less 20% with enough protein) will burn body fat, with or without cardio.
Thank you for 1) actually reading my question, 2) making a clear response 3) adding your personal experience and results. Most useful response so far. I know compund lifts have been mentioned before in a response I dismissed, but yours makes a lot more sense. Though, what it TDEE?
Just so there isn't confusion when you look up StrongLifts, it's 3 different exercises each day, but only 5 total that you'll need to learn.
Thanks for the heads up!0
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