8 Drinks! Are You Kidding Me???
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Uh I can do more than a dozen in a matter of days.....but I consider a heavy drinker someone who does hard alcohol 8 times a week. I know college students who can drink a half bottle of jack daniel's whiskey a night x.x0
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True alcholics cannot function without the booze- their metabolizm changes- there is an actual cellular shift that happens.
My coworker's wife is/was full blown alcoholic- she's in remission at this point- but he's a biologist/chemist person-(like- he teaches at Rutgers- not read an article once kind of person) and I've been lectured several times about this- the AMOUNT has absolutely nothing to do with being an alcoholic- it's all about the metabolism and cellular level.
This! Addiction is about brain chemistry... not the substance you use to change it. It doesn't happen over a few weeks. It happens over the course of years.
even more than brain chemistry- like metebolic chemistry. At some point- you're metabolism doesn't run without the sugar from the alcohol and in order to get your body functioning - you start using alcohol like we use coffee.
And from what I understand- you never truly fully recover from being a full blown alcoholic-you go into remission- and if you start drinking again- you don't "build back up" within weeks/days (depending on heavily you dive back in) you wind up at the same dangerous place- you don't repeat the process of getting metobolically effed- you just catch back up to where you were. Which is why being a true alcoholic is so dangerous- because "slip ups" can mean death if you are THAT close to drinking yourself to the grave.
All this is true. However, as far as the "one drink and your effed" theory goes, it doesn't always work that way. One drink is still a slippery slope, just like this OP who has identified a pattern of drinking is on, but it doesn't always have to lead to a binge. It depends on the individual, and if they have managed to learn self-control.0 -
CDC changes their standards all of the time.0
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if the amount of alcohol ingested and how often indicates an addiction, then by the same logic anorexics could never have a food obsession, since they take in such little food. But we know this is not true. It's all about the psychology of why the item is being consumed.
I like to drink a bottle of wine on Friday nights. I don't aim for the whole bottle, and I don't think about it all week long. My husband and I sit down with our Friday cheat meal and we usually just so happen to go through a bottle each. That's 4 drinks per person. Saturday night, I MIGHT have another glass, but usually I don't really want it. Sunday night, I MIGHT have a glass, but usually not. That's 6 drinks in the week so far. I doubt that another 2 drinks would 'put me over the edge', especially if there are days in between. The news article is complete rubbish.0 -
and I used to date an alcoholic (unbeknownst to me at the time). When he finally explained it to me, he told me he needed a drink just to get in the shower each morning. THAT is when you know you have a problem.0
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True alcholics cannot function without the booze- their metabolizm changes- there is an actual cellular shift that happens.
My coworker's wife is/was full blown alcoholic- she's in remission at this point- but he's a biologist/chemist person-(like- he teaches at Rutgers- not read an article once kind of person) and I've been lectured several times about this- the AMOUNT has absolutely nothing to do with being an alcoholic- it's all about the metabolism and cellular level.
This! Addiction is about brain chemistry... not the substance you use to change it. It doesn't happen over a few weeks. It happens over the course of years.
even more than brain chemistry- like metebolic chemistry. At some point- you're metabolism doesn't run without the sugar from the alcohol and in order to get your body functioning - you start using alcohol like we use coffee.
And from what I understand- you never truly fully recover from being a full blown alcoholic-you go into remission- and if you start drinking again- you don't "build back up" within weeks/days (depending on heavily you dive back in) you wind up at the same dangerous place- you don't repeat the process of getting metobolically effed- you just catch back up to where you were. Which is why being a true alcoholic is so dangerous- because "slip ups" can mean death if you are THAT close to drinking yourself to the grave.
All this is true. However, as far as the "one drink and your effed" theory goes, it doesn't always work that way. One drink is still a slippery slope, just like this OP who has identified a pattern of drinking is on, but it doesn't always have to lead to a binge. It depends on the individual, and if they have managed to learn self-control.
yeah I don't think (or didn't think I implied) that one drink was all it took to make you go kaput- but it was very much- it doesnt' take much to get you back to the level of drinkage (slipper slope) and once you're back drinking- your body kicks back quickly to where you were. meaning- you're tolerence may be super low again- but you wind up still at a dangerous level very quickly- not sure what the chemical process is on that- and how much of it is tied to the fact that one drink IS such a slippery slope.0 -
So, What qualifies someone as a Sugar Addict then??
*runs*
/\ /\ THIS!
Also, I'm from Wisconsin ... 8 drinks a week here just MIGHT quench your thirst a bit if you're lucky
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I would consider someone who had 8 drinks a week to be a heavy drinker (regardless of division). The only reason I think that though is because I personally only have maybe 8 drinks every 3 or 4 months. So I guess you have to have something to compare it with to classify anything as "heavy" or "light". To someone who drinks 8 drinks a night, you would be considered a light drinker. To someone who doesn't drink at all maybe they would consider you a heavy drinker. If you don't consider yourself a heavy drinker then there ya go! Just my two cents!
ditto, I may have 8 drinks in a year. so 8 per week seems like an awful lot. However, it's all relative.0 -
That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol0
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8 drinks IS considered a heavy drinker. Being a heavy drinker in it self does not mean its a problem. There are a whole slew of issues that contribute to heavy drinking. Like everything 8 is just a starting point. The issues surrounding the drinking are more important. If you enjoy a glass of whine or 2 every night I say you are absolutely fine
I am not an expert though. Cheers 0 -
Thats funny because they recommend having a glass of red wine for your heart and say one a day is okay, so that would be 7 drinks a week... so if you have one extra one you are no a heavy drinker? I think it all depends on how you use alcohol if you are using it as an escape and its effecting your life/relationships then its a bad thing, but if you are enjoying a good beer or glass of wine with dinner every night I don't think its anything to worry about.0
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8 drinks (shots preferably) is just getting started!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!0
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I'm f****d!0
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True alcholics cannot function without the booze- their metabolizm changes- there is an actual cellular shift that happens.
My coworker's wife is/was full blown alcoholic- she's in remission at this point- but he's a biologist/chemist person-(like- he teaches at Rutgers- not read an article once kind of person) and I've been lectured several times about this- the AMOUNT has absolutely nothing to do with being an alcoholic- it's all about the metabolism and cellular level.
This! Addiction is about brain chemistry... not the substance you use to change it. It doesn't happen over a few weeks. It happens over the course of years.
even more than brain chemistry- like metebolic chemistry. At some point- you're metabolism doesn't run without the sugar from the alcohol and in order to get your body functioning - you start using alcohol like we use coffee.
And from what I understand- you never truly fully recover from being a full blown alcoholic-you go into remission- and if you start drinking again- you don't "build back up" within weeks/days (depending on heavily you dive back in) you wind up at the same dangerous place- you don't repeat the process of getting metobolically effed- you just catch back up to where you were. Which is why being a true alcoholic is so dangerous- because "slip ups" can mean death if you are THAT close to drinking yourself to the grave.
Well done for bringing sense to this conversation.
I lost a parent to true alcoholism so know first hand about this cell dependancy process. The other parent survived but is in AA, which also tends to bring a lot of confusion into things.
I abstained for 21 years after a misdiagnosis. I love my wine and could drink it with lunch and dinner, but have decided to follow some guidelines and drink 2/3 drinks 2/4 times a month. It interferes with my recovery from training. I don't think about it when I don't have it, but enjoy a good binge now and again. Guilt free, miraculously, after my experience with screwy prohibition religion twisted 'recovery' programmes.
I may add that I believe alcohol is a toxin and the one glass of wine a day being good for you is bollocks. I'd love it to be true, but I think it really clouds the reality of what alcohol really is. A poison, Kryptonite.
Love the stuff lol!0 -
I think that seems like a lot of alcohol but I am not a drinker so what do I know?0
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That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol
Just because they do it and it's the "country standard" doesn't meanthey don't qualify for whatever new label it we are slapping on something.
And not for nothing there is a strong stereotype of Italians are known for being heavy drinkers- pretty sure that's not a made up farce.
:flowerforyou: thank youWell done for bringing sense to this conversation.
I lost a parent to true alcoholism so know first hand about this cell dependancy process. The other parent survived but is in AA, which also tends to bring a lot of confusion into things.
I abstained for 21 years after a misdiagnosis. I love my wine and could drink it with lunch and dinner, but have decided to follow some guidelines and drink 2/3 drinks 2/4 times a month.
it's a serious topic and people should realize- drinking a lot =/= alcolism or alcoholic. Sure label this label that we can argue it back and forth allday- but people need to know- people with extreme drinking problems may not ACTUALLY be alcoholice- they are just *kitten* with no self control.
Being an alcoholic has SERIOUS rammifacations outside just being miserable to be around or someone who drinks more than you are comfortable wiht- or someone who drinks an drives.
I am sorry for your loss- I'm sure that was difficult. Talking to my coworker- dealing with that process in all aspects is REALLY hard on everyone.
But I think you nailed it- moderating/guidelines and figuring out how it meats goals or not. That's how I setttled into what i have going on- I pushed drinking to Friday/Saturday only's (for a 6-8 month liminting period) there was no limit on how much- only rule was no drinking Sun- Thurs.
since I'm not a big partier- or drinker- some nights I had nothing- some nights I had 1 or 2- and once in a while I had 5 or 6- all guilt free.
Now I mostly stick to the 1-3 range. 1 usually. 2 if my BF is around. 3 if i'ts a party- but I rarely make it through 2 much less into 3. So mostly I'm a light weight, I am on a buget- and it messes with calories/training- so it really works out better to drink very little. Just no added benefits to drinking more.
And I'm 100% guilt free when I DO go ham and drink several.0 -
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it's a serious topic and people should realize- drinking a lot =/= alcolism or alcoholic. Sure label this label that we can argue it back and forth allday- but people need to know- people with extreme drinking problems may not ACTUALLY be alcoholice- they are just *kitten* with no self control.
Being an alcoholic has SERIOUS rammifacations outside just being miserable to be around or someone who drinks more than you are comfortable wiht- or someone who drinks an drives.
I would strongly disagree! The not being able to control it is not self control. Drinking that much alcohol changes the way your brain works and alters the stop/ go mechanism. Not stopping is a serious sign. Time to pack it in and get some help0 -
That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol
Just because they do it and it's the "country standard" doesn't meanthey don't qualify for whatever new label it we are slapping on something.
And not for nothing there is a strong stereotype of Italians are known for being heavy drinkers- pretty sure that's not a made up farce.
:flowerforyou: thank youWell done for bringing sense to this conversation.
I lost a parent to true alcoholism so know first hand about this cell dependancy process. The other parent survived but is in AA, which also tends to bring a lot of confusion into things.
I abstained for 21 years after a misdiagnosis. I love my wine and could drink it with lunch and dinner, but have decided to follow some guidelines and drink 2/3 drinks 2/4 times a month.
it's a serious topic and people should realize- drinking a lot =/= alcolism or alcoholic. Sure label this label that we can argue it back and forth allday- but people need to know- people with extreme drinking problems may not ACTUALLY be alcoholice- they are just *kitten* with no self control.
Being an alcoholic has SERIOUS rammifacations outside just being miserable to be around or someone who drinks more than you are comfortable wiht- or someone who drinks an drives.
I am sorry for your loss- I'm sure that was difficult. Talking to my coworker- dealing with that process in all aspects is REALLY hard on everyone.
But I think you nailed it- moderating/guidelines and figuring out how it meats goals or not. That's how I setttled into what i have going on- I pushed drinking to Friday/Saturday only's (for a 6-8 month liminting period) there was no limit on how much- only rule was no drinking Sun- Thurs.
since I'm not a big partier- or drinker- some nights I had nothing- some nights I had 1 or 2- and once in a while I had 5 or 6- all guilt free.
Now I mostly stick to the 1-3 range. 1 usually. 2 if my BF is around. 3 if i'ts a party- but I rarely make it through 2 much less into 3. So mostly I'm a light weight, I am on a buget- and it messes with calories/training- so it really works out better to drink very little. Just no added benefits to drinking more.
And I'm 100% guilt free when I DO go ham and drink several.
I think we are booze twins lol!
The secret is to make alcohol your slave, not your master. And know when to get out when you're losing that battle.0 -
All I meant is that it seems like the label "heavy" bothers you. Heavy drinker doesn't, in itself, mean alcoholic, or problem drinker, or anything else in a negative context, but you're interpreting what they said about your intake as a negative.Okay understandably its not the drunk or buzzed feeling, but yes the constant increase in activity that one's liver and organs go through when drinking is something to consider. I understand that the CDC is not labeling me, but trying to (or I naively hope) that they are trying to control alcohol related diseases.
Again, I cannot say why it bothers me. I do remember my party days and looking back at how much I threw back on a nightly basis is shocking. I am amazed I kept up with the basics of life while still pounding 6-10 drinks every evening. I could see a major difference between days I drank and days I didn't even though I didn't really get a hangover. I always considered these past few years (or at least this last year of MFP, and eating substantially better) to be a low to moderate drinker. So in that completely NON-MEDICAL context, I feel like I had a slap in the face. But maybe I'm to a point to change things up in my life and live a little cleaner in the nutrition sense. Why not alcohol?
I know people for whom 8 drinks a week would be problematic and others for whom 8 drinks a week would be completely fine and healthy -- I don't have an opinion one way or another about whether or not it's good or bad in the abstract. It completely depends on the person. I'm just saying that if you're reacting in a negative way to being quantified as a "heavy drinker," it could be a good idea to ask yourself why it bothers you. (I'm not asking you to explain yourself, btw, if you don't know it's okay). I think anytime someone has a strong reaction to a piece of information that may not warrant the reaction, it's good to try to figure out why.
It could be that you equate not drinking with "good" behavior and drinking with "bad" behavior, like some people do with "junk" food. If that's the case, it's okay to let go of that mental judgement. (I grew up in an environment that was VERY anti-drinking. As an adult, I choose to drink and feel that it's healthy for me, but on occasion some of that drinking=bad programming shows up and I have to deal with it). On the other side, it could be that your alcohol intake is interfering with your weight loss or causing other issues and you don't want to admit it to yourself. I don't know at all, because I don't know you. That's really all I meant by my earlier comment.0 -
So they are saying drinking 1.05 glasses of red wine per day is heavy drinking?0
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it's a serious topic and people should realize- drinking a lot =/= alcolism or alcoholic. Sure label this label that we can argue it back and forth allday- but people need to know- people with extreme drinking problems may not ACTUALLY be alcoholice- they are just *kitten* with no self control.
Being an alcoholic has SERIOUS rammifacations outside just being miserable to be around or someone who drinks more than you are comfortable wiht- or someone who drinks an drives.
I would strongly disagree! The not being able to control it is not self control. Drinking that much alcohol changes the way your brain works and alters the stop/ go mechanism. Not stopping is a serious sign. Time to pack it in and get some help
Then you should visit my world in London and south of France! People spend their lives dabbling in and out of heavy drinking and function fine and live long lives. My grandparents lived til their late 80s, drank every day from midday and were fine upstanding citizens. There's so much fear around alcohol, rightly, but it's just human nature to enjoy it, it doesn't always mean there's a problem. When you meet a real alcoholic you can see/smell/sense a big difference.0 -
That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol
A glass of wine every night is much, much different from consuming hard liquor every night.
Beer and hard liquor cause serum uric acid levels to rise. Wine however, does not.0 -
:drinker:
MINI TWO BEER PARTY!!!! LMAO or wine MOAR WINE!!!!I think we are booze twins lol!
The secret is to make alcohol your slave, not your master. And know when to get out when you're losing that battle..
it's a serious topic and people should realize- drinking a lot =/= alcolism or alcoholic. Sure label this label that we can argue it back and forth allday- but people need to know- people with extreme drinking problems may not ACTUALLY be alcoholice- they are just *kitten* with no self control.
Being an alcoholic has SERIOUS rammifacations outside just being miserable to be around or someone who drinks more than you are comfortable wiht- or someone who drinks an drives.
I would strongly disagree! The not being able to control it is not self control. Drinking that much alcohol changes the way your brain works and alters the stop/ go mechanism. Not stopping is a serious sign. Time to pack it in and get some help
you should go back and read my other posts explain (alibeit in heavy laymans terms) how being an alcoholic works.
Being a heavy drinker- being an alcohol abuser - being someone who just gave up- doesn't necessarily mean you are TRULY an alcoholic. There is a physical - CELLULAR change to your body- it's metobolic.
And it isn't about the lack of self control- they are way past the lack of self control- they literally cannot function without it- without their AM drink- it's like me with no coffee- nothing happens- they don't wake up- they don't process. It's very much the same thing. That's NOT a lack of self control- that's an I have to drink to get going- I have to drink to wake up. Their body processes the sugar from the alcohol and that's what gets them fired up- it's like keto- with booze.0 -
That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol
A glass of wine every night is much, much different from consuming hard liquor every night.
Beer and hard liquor cause serum uric acid levels to rise. Wine however, does not.
there is absolutely no difference between a glass of wine and an OZ of hard liquor0 -
Thats funny because they recommend having a glass of red wine for your heart and say one a day is okay, so that would be 7 drinks a week... so if you have one extra one you are no a heavy drinker? I think it all depends on how you use alcohol if you are using it as an escape and its effecting your life/relationships then its a bad thing, but if you are enjoying a good beer or glass of wine with dinner every night I don't think its anything to worry about.
^^This. Also the recommendations for amounts in different countries is all over the place. If they want to call 8/wk heavy then so what. That is a glass of wine each night and maybe one extra on one night a week.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiebell/2013/09/03/are-you-drinking-too-much-the-myth-of-moderation/
If the article is right, then in the UK the recommendation is no more than 3/day and in Spain no more than 7/day.
It is almost arbitrary these guidelines. Also, weight is a powerful factor and that isn't accounted for. A 98lb woman cannot consume the same as someone who is 165lbs. It is proportional.0 -
Then you should visit my world in London and south of France! People spend their lives dabbling in and out of heavy drinking and function fine and live long lives. My grandparents lived til their late 80s, drank every day from midday and were fine upstanding citizens. There's so much fear around alcohol, rightly, but it's just human nature to enjoy it, it doesn't always mean there's a problem. When you meet a real alcoholic you can see/smell/sense a big difference.
Fascinating :huh:
May you please volunteer one single Saturday evening in any regular hospital in the emergency room.
Or may I personally introduce you to two people, one brain damaged and another one dead. Both victims independently to the so called "enjoyment" of somebody else to alcohol.
And may we please discuss this "there is so much fear around alcohol" statement again afterwards.
And what is by your definition a "real" alcoholic? How many do you know?0 -
I wishIt is almost arbitrary these guidelines. Also, weight is a powerful factor and that isn't accounted for. A 98lb woman cannot consume the same as someone who is 165lbs. It is proportional.
tell that to my 125 best friend- at 165- I obviously am bigger than she is... damn bish has a hollow leg- she easily used to drink me under the table.0 -
And what is by your definition a "real" alcoholic? How many do you know?
we already discussed this.
and clearly you don't read- she alreayd said she lost a parent to it.0 -
That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol
A glass of wine every night is much, much different from consuming hard liquor every night.
Beer and hard liquor cause serum uric acid levels to rise. Wine however, does not.
there is absolutely no difference between a glass of wine and an OZ of hard liquor
You clearly didn't read my post nor do you know anything about alcohol.
Yes, one 12-ounce beer has the same amount of alcohol as one 5-ounce glass of wine, or 1.5-ounce shot of liquor. I said the difference is that wine does not cause serum uric acid levels to rise- but beer and hard liquor both do.0 -
That to me is absolutely ridiculous. i enjoy a glass or two of wine almost every night. its common to have wine with every meal in other country's like italy. if 8 is heavy drinker!!! whoa look out lol
A glass of wine every night is much, much different from consuming hard liquor every night.
Beer and hard liquor cause serum uric acid levels to rise. Wine however, does not.
there is absolutely no difference between a glass of wine and an OZ of hard liquor
Um... there are huge differences. The ingredients are different. The process is different.0
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