Hunting vs. Endangered Hunting

karinaApplebombinos

Didn't read the responses, but OP, do you know how endangered species hunting permits work?

They are given out rarely and usually in instances where that specific animal is no longer breeding and/or a threat to the already small population.


The permits are auctioned off at exorbitant prices and the proceeds HELP the endangered species in a number of ways. These permits are a GREAT thing and do a ton of good.

It's kinda sad/pathetic that people get their panties in a wad because they are "passionate animal lovers" who are uninformed. Legal hunting is preserving life in Africa. High fence big game hunting in South Africa is for people who want to hunt and can afford it. It is REALLY expensive. It's different from hunting in big areas that aren't fenced, perhaps easier because there is a smaller amount of country to cover. But, it is still promoting conservation in Africa because it puts a value on the animal. There is plenty of poaching in Africa, and a huge penalty for it, often death. It is unfortunate that all this blood lust because a "girl" hunts big animals and posts about it. She's proud of her effort. She did nothing illegal. Is it helping the hunting community? Absolutely not, in my opinion. But those of us who hunt, will still hunt.

roanokejoe49

As for me personally...I try not to hunt anything that can hunt me back...its safer that way.

That makes you a stalker, not a hunter.

pandabear_

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

roanokejoe49

Ahem, my husband's former boss owns a company that produces gun holsters. He is a world renowned shooter. He has done endangered species hunting. He has also gone out with the game wardens in South Africa and hunted the poachers, and I do mean that literally.

That makes your husband's former boss a ****.

George_Baileys_Ghost

What amazes me about the animal rights movement, is how convenient it is for every person to set the goalpost wherever they feel best keeps them out of the realm of hypocrisy. Sure, no using animals for food, clothing, medicine, or any modern convenience...but so little guilt over how many activists are fine living in massive urban centers which have displaced thousands of species.

...yes, it's the hunters who kill a few under carefully regulated laws that are the sad, pathetic, disgusting, evil people.


(To be honest, this was written largely as an example of how an extreme, emotional post can detract from the actual conversation. I can understand both sides, but do you see how easy it is to wax angry and stir up a giant stink when the discourse is largely emotional, as opposed to a rational exchange of ideas that maybe we hadn't previously thought of. Consider the strengths and weaknesses of not only the opposing view, but your own as well. Labeling the people who may disagree with you as sad, pathetic, disgusting, etc does little more than make a lot of noise that no one is going to listen to. Calmly presented facts however....that's where the money is. (Or rather, where it should be.))

Slacker16

Also you assume nature has a sense of balance.
Let me give you a hint. It doesn't. You're assuming that because wolves are there suddenly they are going to thin the herds by taking only what they need during a certain time. Let me clear things up with you. Wolves have been known to slaughter entire herds and not because they were hungry but because they got a dopamine high.

Actually, nature does have a sense of balance. If wolves depopulate a region of prey they will have less food which will in turn cull their numbers. IOW, the rate of change of a wolf population is positively affected by the deer population and the rate of change of the deer population is negatively affected by the wolf population.

It's a system of linear differential equations. Its solution, assuming a reasonable initial state and certain conditions on the surrounding ecosystem, is an oscillating equilibrium. Queenbish should know more about this than I do.

ETA:

Is it legal? As long as it's legal and the funds from those types of hunts are being used for the preservation of the species then I'm not going to get too worked up about it. And by "too" I mean "at all."

That's a fair position, but let's not pretend that laws and regulations cannot be greased with a little money oil.

SunofaBeach14

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

Don't let reality get in the way of your tantrum? Okay then.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Ahem, my husband's former boss owns a company that produces gun holsters. He is a world renowned shooter. He has done endangered species hunting. He has also gone out with the game wardens in South Africa and hunted the poachers, and I do mean that literally.

That makes your husband's former boss a ****.

Lol, he absolutely is, we can't stand the man.

pandabear_

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

Don't let reality get in the way of your tantrum? Okay then.

What are you talking about? Tantrum? Reality?

I also find looking at pictures of the Holocaust sickening. Is this opinion wrong? Am I supposed to look at graphic images and feel no emotion at all? Sorry for not being a robot Mr. Reality.

SunofaBeach14

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

Don't let reality get in the way of your tantrum? Okay then.

What are you talking about? Tantrum? Reality?

I also find looking at pictures of the Holocaust sickening. Is this opinion wrong? Am I supposed to look at graphic images and feel no emotion at all? Sorry for not being a robot Mr. Reality.

Oh. Look at that. Not so subtle hyperbolic comparison to the holocaust.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Also you assume nature has a sense of balance.
Let me give you a hint. It doesn't. You're assuming that because wolves are there suddenly they are going to thin the herds by taking only what they need during a certain time. Let me clear things up with you. Wolves have been known to slaughter entire herds and not because they were hungry but because they got a dopamine high.

Actually, nature does have a sense of balance. If wolves depopulate a region of prey they will have less food which will in turn cull their numbers. IOW, the rate of change of a wolf population is positively affected by the deer population and the rate of change of the deer population is negatively affected by the wolf population.

It's a system of linear differential equations. Its solution, assuming a reasonable initial state and certain conditions on the surrounding ecosystem, is an oscillating equilibrium. Queenbish should know more about this than I do.

In theory, yes that's the basics of it. We do however need some clarification here. Neither the wolves or their prey will self regulate at the population level, but in a healthy ecosystem predatory species will exert a top down control on other species in the system and control their numbers while the predators themselves are controlled by the amount of prey available and the resulting starvation that will occur if they outproduce their food source.

But that's the basics, you start throwing in human impact and removal of predators from the system and the mathematical models used for trying to predict outcomes become exponentially more complicated. And North American ecosystems are typically so far from their natural state that it's almost impossible to apply traditional models.

margannmks

What are your thoughts on consuming road kill?
[/quote] one of the tastiest deer in our freezer was a roadkill. And if my bow shooting practise tonite is any indication nothing is endangered yet.;)

LadyFlexible

What are your thoughts on consuming road kill?

one of the tastiest deer in our freezer was a roadkill. And if my bow shooting practise tonite is any indication nothing is endangered yet.;)
[/quote]

It's funny. I have a cookbook on road kill.

bkthandler

Hello All!
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/kendall-takes-wild-facebook-controversy

To get a little more opinions of this subject, I wanted to post it on here rather than my hometown area! The link above is a girl who apparently hunts as well as hunt endangered mammals! At first, I was shocked! How can a little gal like that take on a huge-*kitten* elephant hahaha It is pretty sad though seeing her hunt those types of animals (as well as other people who do the same). I am all for hunting deer or whatever type of "legal" wildlife is around during hunting season, but what is the reward for killing an exotic animal?

I am from a rural/country lifestyle community so I get the pros/cons of hunting, but I wanted a more wide variety of opinions on this subject! I am NOT (repeat NOT) trying to start anything or causing ruffled feathers, I am just curious!


Thanks Everyone!

Generally people will get their panties in a wad about OMG, killing threatened animals! Without giving thought to the economic impact. There are a lot of animal refuges in Africa, that need income in order to continue to act as refuges. They also can support a certain amount of animals, otherwise the entire population has the chance to die slowly due to starvation as resources are quickly exhausted.

Some hunters will pay 10-20-30k or more to go down there, hire guides, cooks, stay in hotels, drivers, and then pay to cull an animal that the biologists and managers of that particular refuge have determined they can remove. In most cases, it's a finely tuned thing for very affluent people to indulge in. The refuge gets to survive economically and ecologically, and rich people get to do "cool stuff".

Surprisingly, it is a win for all animals involved, even the one who dies. They avoided a slow lingering death from a large predator, injury, or starvation.

I find nothing wrong with the people going to reserves and keeping them open. My issue is with the hunters who go to the midwest to hunt the high fence deer for the retard racks, and they leave the meat, only wanting the antlers.

Those are who I got beef with.

I actually find the canned hunt part of this type of thing the most disgusting. If culling is necessary is can probably be done without the douchey blood lust.

I don't hunt, but I don't think I should stop someone else from hunting and I live in an area where culling of deer is necessary for both drivers and the deer themselves.

On all other hunting matters I defer to a good friends husband who is an avid hunter and successful. His opinions of canned hunts and the people who do them is not printable on these pages.

Objecting to what is almost a fashion shoot with a dead animal does not mean everyone objects to actual responsible hunting.

LadyFlexible

Also you assume nature has a sense of balance.
Let me give you a hint. It doesn't. You're assuming that because wolves are there suddenly they are going to thin the herds by taking only what they need during a certain time. Let me clear things up with you. Wolves have been known to slaughter entire herds and not because they were hungry but because they got a dopamine high.

Actually, nature does have a sense of balance. If wolves depopulate a region of prey they will have less food which will in turn cull their numbers. IOW, the rate of change of a wolf population is positively affected by the deer population and the rate of change of the deer population is negatively affected by the wolf population.

It's a system of linear differential equations. Its solution, assuming a reasonable initial state and certain conditions on the surrounding ecosystem, is an oscillating equilibrium. Queenbish should know more about this than I do.

Maybe sense of balance isn't the right word.
I'd have to say considering nature is always changing, I wouldn't call that balanced. It might put up an appearance but appearances are deceiving

Queen Bish, when you say human impact. What do you mean? What are you comparing and on what scale?
A specie's impact isn't always good or completely good even for itself, no? Just as it isn't always bad or completely bad?

ninerbuff

Dear Posters,

I wanted to offer a brief explanation for the locking of this thread. This discussion is welcome to continue in groups.

The forum guidelines include this item:

15. Divisive Topics Are Better Suited For Groups, Not the Main Forums

Divisive topics and posts, particularly those that seek input from or are relevant only to a select group of users, are better placed within an appropriate Group rather than the Main Forums. For example, topics relevant to only one religion should not be placed on the main forums but rather within a group related to that religion.


If you would like to review the forum guidelines, please visit the following link:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

At our discretion, this locked thread may be deleted entirely in the near future.

Thread is bordering on becoming a debate between vegan/non vegans.

With respect,
Ninerbuff