Thinking about changing tac would like your thoughts.

WalkingAlong

Ramez- Many, many people maintain and even lose weight without calorie counting. I lost 50 lbs once (down to goal) eating unlimited produce, lean protein and whole grains, just limiting things like alcohol, sugar, fat and baked goods. Not eliminating, just limiting.

I've read books about 'healthy at any size' and there are convincing arguments. I guess I'd mostly be concerned about my joints and organs. Stuff like this-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/12/apple-shaped-body-kidney-risks-pear-shaped-body_n_3071996.html

maidentl

I've got a question that I have always wondered about. You guys are asking him about his joints and the health of carrying around that much weight. I want to know if this is a concern for people who carry around enormous amounts of muscle? Some people have "obese" BMI's because of their muscle mass, is that better in some way than carrying around the same amount of fat?

And to the OP, have you seen the video "23 1/2 Hours?" Some health experts believe it's our behaviors that are an indicator of health. Yes, most obese people eat a lot of crap and don't move their bodies, but it's not so much the obesity as it is the behaviors. Thin sedentary people can develop health issues too and overweight people can have none. That said, it might just be time for you to take a "mental health break" and eat at maintenance for a while until you feel like getting back in the game.

itsbasschick

for me, i developed type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure from being fat, and while lots of walking helped, losing some weight had a very strong effect on my blood sugar. this happened after i turned 48, though i had been somewhat heavy, but was also active, fit and pretty healthy till then. it all just fell apart at 48. btw, i ate a pretty clean vegetarian diet, as well.

if you have no genetic predisposition to diabetes, have normal blood pressure and aren't worried about your knees, hips and ankles (my knees are damaged from carrying the extra weight and my PT believes my weight contributed to my hip issue), give it a shot and see how it goes. unfortunately for me, i had to make the choice between heavy and healthy.

When I started my diet I kind of went for the default position of ... I want to be thin and healthy. But the fact is I don't really care about being thin or having my 6 pack showing. I just want to be healthy and strong. And if that's the case. Is being fat really a bad thing?

maidentl, anyone carrying lots more weight on their knees and ankles than they were designed for can end up with joint problems later in life.

RHachicho

I've got a question that I have always wondered about. You guys are asking him about his joints and the health of carrying around that much weight. I want to know if this is a concern for people who carry around enormous amounts of muscle? Some people have "obese" BMI's because of their muscle mass, is that better in some way than carrying around the same amount of fat?

And to the OP, have you seen the video "23 1/2 Hours?" Some health experts believe it's our behaviors that are an indicator of health. Yes, most obese people eat a lot of crap and don't move their bodies, but it's not so much the obesity as it is the behaviors. Thin sedentary people can develop health issues too and overweight people can have none. That said, it might just be time for you to take a "mental health break" and eat at maintenance for a while until you feel like getting back in the game.

From what I understand muscle does put a certain amount of strain on the joints and organs but far far less than fat because it kind of supports its own weight. While fat just kind of sags in the direction of gravity muscle clings to the bone and in many ways actually strengthens the joints. That's why building decent muscles would be key to this strategy. It would be no good if I just ate a bunch and did cardio. I need to be able to hold and support my weight evenly not just let my joints to all the load bearing as it where. However all said and done a bodybuilder will still put more strain on their joints than a lean person ... but a lot less than someone who is simply obese.

Also thanks for the input Maiden and yeah you might be right I may just need to maintain for a bit and get my head back in dieting mode as it where. It's something to think about while I wait for my doctors appointment and my next PT session,

Just an FYI for people who are wondering though. I have a blood test once every 6 months because I had a condition called Hiderodenitis Suppuritiva which is now gone. However it made the doctors want to keep tabs on my health markers. But so far basically ALL of my health markers are pretty much bang on. So I'm not really even at the risk point for heart disease or diabetes or anything like that. At least not at this point. I know I know right It was as much of a surprise to me and all.

RHachicho

i like your post....you are right you dont have to have a six pack to be healthy.and there is nothing wrong with being healthy and strong. to many people confuse healthy and fit..you can look fit and be sickly and lets not forget the term skinny fat. you have a plan stick with it foe 3 months and see if it works. after 3 months you will know what to add or take away for it to fit your goals.
remember eat what you want. as long as it fits your goals. dont be afraid of eggs(dont eat the yellow part they say) dont be afraid of real butter etc to many people get caught up with all these fads diets that dont work . they want to qoute doctors....but we have all seen this have you taken xyz..a major lawsuit has been filed.......just last week a doctor said it was the cure all potion. remember everyone is different what is healthy for you may not be healthy for someone else. it is not a one size fits all thing. just stick to what you know and your plan looks great let me know in 3 months did it work for you.

Well at the risk of falling prey to confirmation bias it sounds like you and me are on about the same wavelength. And I don't think anyone could look at your profile pick and go wow that dude is unhealthy as *kitten*! lol. I've sent you a friend request and I will let you know If I decide to go ahead with this.

Adc7225

I get what you are trying to say and I congratulate you on not only your weight loss but also your comprehension of what can work for you. Ultimately there are those of us that will loss weight and hope for some magical moment where we will find some nirvana as a result. You have reached a point where you are happy with who/where you are.

Since I don't know what you body type is like I can't disagree with your choice, I am an AA, 45 year old, 5'2" female who with my doctor came to an agreement for me to get to 175 from 244 - give my age and body type. I allowed others to say things that changed my goal to 150 - I am around 155 right now and honestly not really satisfied with everything. I thought I wanted to be a size 10/12 and I am currently a 4/6, sometimes 8. I find that though I was give a great clean bill of health at my last physical I fret over small areas of my body that are not what I think I want them to be. Even at 144 my ultimate goal I will still be classified as overweight

You have the strength of character to stand firm on where you are and you are okay with that, I envy your state of freedom. Keep up the good work.

Allegi32

First of all, congratulations on losing so much weight and gaining muscle! That being said, I have to disagree on the "healthy fat" issue. Just because a person's blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. read as fine on any given, individual test, does not mean that the person is healthy. There is so much going on inside the body that we cannot see. Also, some things take years to develop so you may not see them right away.

You can see just from this scan how the excess fat has compressed organs and actually altered the alignment of the joints. When you gain fat on the outside, you are actually compressing your inside organs, which then do not function as efficiently. Also, your heart has to work much harder to circulate blood throughout a larger body, and over time, that will catch up with you, regardless of whether you are exercising or not.



This article explains it in more detail, but you get the point.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1269074/Crushed-lungs-strained-joints-swollen-heart--extraordinary-scans-reveal-fat-does-you.html

In the end, it is obviously your decision! This is just food for thought.

RHachicho

I get what you are trying to say and I congratulate you on not only your weight loss but also your comprehension of what can work for you. Ultimately there are those of us that will loss weight and hope for some magical moment where we will find some nirvana as a result. You have reached a point where you are happy with who/where you are.

Since I don't know what you body type is like I can't disagree with your choice, I am an AA, 45 year old, 5'2" female who with my doctor came to an agreement for me to get to 175 from 244 - give my age and body type. I allowed others to say things that changed my goal to 150 - I am around 155 right now and honestly not really satisfied with everything. I thought I wanted to be a size 10/12 and I am currently a 4/6, sometimes 8. I find that though I was give a great clean bill of health at my last physical I fret over small areas of my body that are not what I think I want them to be. Even at 144 my ultimate goal I will still be classified as overweight

You have the strength of character to stand firm on where you are and you are okay with that, I envy your state of freedom. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the support. Though I am fully aware that sometimes these things can work against us. All too often it's easy to see what you want to see. I would love to think that I can eat a lot more and still be healthy. I frankly have no problem with exercise I enjoy it very much. And the idea of taking the approach of fueling the engine more and running it harder really appeals to me. But I have also taken on board all the negative comments people have made. In the end I will do what I believe is best for me. And if it doesn't work out so be it. But I will weigh everyone's opinions and then come to my own conclusion. In my belief it is no evil thing to listen to the opinions of others. The only sin is in doing so blindly and without questioning them. And in not choosing who's opinion is worth listening to.

@ Mainmom76 It certainly is food for thought. I hadn't considered that angle. However I am also considering quality of life. Not just quantity. As someone who loves food, truly great food as much as I do it may really not be worth extending my life just to be miserable in it. Especially when some damn cancer or a drunk driver might just cut it short anyway. I do thank you for the pic though it is an education to see what being that fat can do to your organs. I just think sometimes our definition of reasonable amounts of fat is a little on the low side. Especially for people that get a lot of enjoyment out of food. Sometimes you gotta enjoy the ride cos no matter what it aint gonna last forever

SLLRunner

Sounds like your just trying to justify eating a lot of food to me. If you can't be bothered to carry on fine but try and be honest with yourself. Also I very much doubt you are 27% BF at that weight so I would wonder how you measured that. The medical consensus is being obese increases your chances of various illness's and reduces your life chances. if you search you can always find people that disagree with that but all the majority of reputable sources and research point to that. Good luck on whatever you do but you really need to be honest with your reasoning

I don't get this at all, and I believe he is being honest. To me, it sounds like he's trying to find a balance.

There is nothing at all with wanting to give up the actual calorie counting and try to maintain, and many people successfully do this. On this note, when my uncle was younger he decided to lose about 30 pounds. He kept his eating habits exactly the same but decided to run five miles five days a week. Before he knew it, he was taking off weight. That's because he chose another way to create a calorie deficit. He kept the weight off this way too, until several years later he put it back on because he quit running without decreasing his calorie limit.

There is nothing wrong with setting a goal that others do not see as ideal. Setting a small goal is better than setting no goal at all.

Sidesteel posted something on the subject of calorie counting v. no calorie counting, so you'd have to do a search for it, but it has a lot of great information. It also opened my eyes to the fact that the way I choose to go through this journey has nothing at all with how someone else chooses, and that no way is right or wrong.

SLLRunner

First of all, congratulations on losing so much weight and gaining muscle! That being said, I have to disagree on the "healthy fat" issue. Just because a person's blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. read as fine on any given, individual test, does not mean that the person is healthy. There is so much going on inside the body that we cannot see. Also, some things take years to develop so you may not see them right away.

You can see just from this scan how the excess fat has compressed organs and actually altered the alignment of the joints. When you gain fat on the outside, you are actually compressing your inside organs, which then do not function as efficiently. Also, your heart has to work much harder to circulate blood throughout a larger body, and over time, that will catch up with you, regardless of whether you are exercising or not.



This article explains it in more detail, but you get the point.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1269074/Crushed-lungs-strained-joints-swollen-heart--extraordinary-scans-reveal-fat-does-you.html

In the end, it is obviously your decision! This is just food for thought.

This gif made me think of the other day when I was taking monthly measurements. After I took each measurement, I put the tape measure to the place I used to be when I weight 44 pounds more, and my gosh what a big difference! My motivation is that I don't hurt anymore.

TutuMom41

why not be strong and a healthy weight?

and congratulations on how far you have come.

RHachicho

why not be strong and a healthy weight?

and congratulations on how far you have come.

I know what you are trying to say ... but I love food .. like a lot. And not junk food I love cooking for myself and I cook damn good. I want to be able to appreciate and enjoy what I think is one of the best things in life. And be as healthy as possible at the same time. That being said maybe I am just being a sourpuss today. I have decided to at least give it a couple more weeks and see how the diet is going. Cos in the end I would rather be a bit fat and mostly healthy than completely totally healthy and miserable. But given how much effort I have already put into this I need to be sure about what I am doing.

@ SSLRunner thanks for your support what you are saying makes a lot of sense. I have to carefully consider what I am doing. And what I have achieved so far. One funny thing I found a pair of my old boxer shorts in the bottom of the wardrobe today. I picked them up and they where sodding MASSIVE. I actually shouted aloud OMG THESE ARE MY PANTS! I am just glad no one was around to hear my shamfu dispray. I laughed to myself about that for a few minutes lol.

editorgrrl

I found a pair of my old boxer shorts in the bottom of the wardrobe today. I picked them up and they where sodding MASSIVE. I actually shouted aloud OMG THESE ARE MY PANTS! I am just glad no one was around to hear my shamfu dispray. I laughed to myself about that for a few minutes lol.

Happy NSV (non-scale victory)!

EvgeniZyntx

OP I'm not sure I understand if you are stating:

1) my goals are related to fitness, weight loss will help me reach those fitness goals (strength, speed, agility or specific ability at certain sports)

2) I think I can be healthy being overweight or even obese. I'm happy with remaining somewhat overweight given how far I've come.

Either one is fine, your body, your goals. Except in brute strength, most fitness evaluation include some measure of cardiovascular ability (remember - heart and lungs ....) - remaining obese increases the risks of cardiovascular issues down the line.

Personally, my goals are strongly motivated by fitness (I have other goals too) and being overweight hinders how much I can climb, bike, run, etc...

Best of luck.

sijomial

You certainly can be fit and overweight (fat) - I managed it for 20 years!
I gained my weight suddenly after a major knee injury but got myself back to a very good level of CV fitness and also hit my peak lifetime strength markers.

But....
Had I lost the extra 30lbs of fat I would certainly have been fitter, probably would have been happier (self-image, not thinking of myself as fat), as regards health I couldn't say I would have been any healthier though. I do get less aches and pains now I'm lighter but I've also got quite a few damaged joints so my experience may not be typical.
Long term going into old age fat really becomes more of an issue as regards quality of life. There is a reason that there is a definition of a healthy body fat percentage. For longevity overweight seems not to be a big issue but obese definitely is,

It sounds a bit to me you have a bit of diet fatigue, one option is to take a spell at maintenance to recharge your batteries mentally and physically. Dieting really is a pain in the *kitten* when you like your food so it's good to take a break.

As regards food - I've always enjoyed my food and always eaten good healthy food. What I ate when I was fat is the same as I eat now, maybe in different proportions though. Probably the same number of calories overall now I'm maintaining as really I ate at maintenance for the majority of the 20 years when I was fat too.

RHachicho

Yeah like I said Im gonna think about it for a couple of weeks before i change tac. I'm not one to come to hasty decisions. Also frankly my weigh in this morning made me feel stupid. I had like 2lb roll off me overnight. I also had a very easy day yesterday where i wasn't too bothered by hunger pangs. Part of me thinks I should take a break part of me thinks I should quit and just get stronger and part of me wants to slap myself and tell me to stay the course cos once I am there I will feel a whole lot better. I will take my time and figure out which voice to listen to. Thanks once again for everyone's input it's been most helpful.

Incidentally at 84lb lost I just hit the 6 stone lost mark lol.

DR2501

I've read through the whole thread and it sounds to me like you just just want to eat more (for example, "As someone who loves food, truly great food as much as I do it may really not be worth extending my life just to be miserable in it.") and that you're asking for people to agree with that position. I'm not having a dig here, just trying to get to the bottom of where you're coming from.

Why not have a break from the deficit for a while instead before picking it up again and losing more later?

Can you be strong and overweight? Yes, look at sumo wrestlers, world's strongest man contenders etc. Are they extreme examples? Yes, and they work damn hard for their strength and appearance but ask them to run four days per week for the rest of their lives and they'd struggle. What I'm trying to say is that your suggestions of running, remaining overweight, building more muscle and strength and eating lots of ('healthy') food all clash I'm afraid.

Its your body and if you want to give in and stay where you are in terms of weight then do it, but personally I believe the medical evidence that excess fat leads to health problems down the line.

RHachicho

I've read through the whole thread and it sounds to me like you just just want to eat more (for example, "As someone who loves food, truly great food as much as I do it may really not be worth extending my life just to be miserable in it.") and that you're asking for people to agree with that position. I'm not having a dig here, just trying to get to the bottom of where you're coming from.

Why not have a break from the deficit for a while instead before picking it up again and losing more later?

Can you be strong and overweight? Yes, look at sumo wrestlers, world's strongest man contenders etc. Are they extreme examples? Yes, and they work damn hard for their strength and appearance but ask them to run four days per week for the rest of their lives and they'd struggle. What I'm trying to say is that your suggestions of running, remaining overweight, building more muscle and strength and eating lots of ('healthy') food all clash I'm afraid.

Its your body and if you want to give in and stay where you are in terms of weight then do it, but personally I believe the medical evidence that excess fat leads to health problems down the line.

/sigh yet another person who seems to think it's evil to want to eat more. Tbh should have expected as much asking that question on here. Look it's all about compromise right. You wanna be fit and healthy but you gotta be able to live your life. People say eat to live don't eat to live. But the reverse is true too. We don't live just to maintain perfectly functioning bodies our bodies exist to enable us to live well. And for some people being completely thin and healthy means being unhappy. And that is an unacceptable compromise. And there is decent well documented medical evidence that suggests that a lot of the stuff that is blamed on fat is actually the result of a crappy diet and no exercise. Even now people are beginning to understand that you can run x hours a week and still have heart problems if you are mostly sedentary. Yes bad is fat for you but these days even a moderate amount of fat takes the blames for problems it does not cause. This I believe to be true. Because I have met quite a few healthy fat people on my dads side of the family. One of them is 90 and still walks miles a day. Hes not morbidly obese but hes hardly skinny. Please look up the cooper study if you want to see the best most comprehensive study in this regard.

Ok I will say this for the last time

YES I WANT TO EAT MORE. THAT SHOULD BE BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS OTHERWISE I WOULD BE FINE WITH DIETING FOREVER. NO I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK THAT MAKES ME A FATTY.

Alatariel75

Could you expand your thoughts on this: "It's just sometimes it seems as though all this calorie counting is struggling against what our bodies are designed to do."

Are you saying calorie counting is leaning towards making you eat too little, or that you're frustrated with calorie counting itself?

Hmm it's not that I think calorie counting is bad I mean I have been doing it for months. I think it certainly helps to build healthier eating habits. I just think after a certain point you understand intrinsically what is an indulgence and what isn't. Before calorie counting it was very easy for me to make mistakes and use loads of olive oil in my cooking or eat a pack of jelly beans thinking ... hell how bad can they be. Calorie counting teaches you the weight of foods very very well. I just think that after a while you don't need to stick rigidly to the curriculum anymore. If that makes sense?

Well, yeah

Whenever there's a "do you want to calorie count for the rest of your life" post, it seems to be a 50/50 split where some people felt they were doing this to learn certain habits, while others compared how little time it takes them to log vs their phenomenal results and decided it was worth it.

I don't eat only "healthy foods", so for me, not calorie counting would not work at this time. But yeah if my diet was mostly meat and vegetables, I probably wouldn't even need to count for as long as I have.

Do you use the app, though? I find it makes calorie counting truly easy

Yeah truthfully I don't have a smartphone /blush

What do you think of the idea of eating as much healthy food as I need but having a small weekly allowance for things like sweets say 500 - 1000 calories of em a week? I know it seems weird but I don't even think I will eat that much. Aside from the occasional soft serve ice cream in hot weather sweat treats don't really tempt me. Even without counting the vast majority of my calories would come from lean meats grilled veg fruit. And some refined carbs from my breakfast cereal and post workout panini.

Actually what you just described is the Weight Watchers "Core" plan. They have a list of things (lean meats, veg, grains, basically fresh foods) that you can eat to satisfaction, then an "allowance" of 49 propoints per week to 'spend' on things that aren't on the list. I've never had the ability to stop eating when satisfied so it wasn't the plan for me, but it worked for many.

Here's the 'list' if you're interested in having a look http://www.weightwatchers.com/images/1033/dynamic/GCMSImages/US_CoreFoodList.pdf

For reference a propint is around 40 calories, give or take.

DR2501

I've read through the whole thread and it sounds to me like you just just want to eat more (for example, "As someone who loves food, truly great food as much as I do it may really not be worth extending my life just to be miserable in it.") and that you're asking for people to agree with that position. I'm not having a dig here, just trying to get to the bottom of where you're coming from.

Why not have a break from the deficit for a while instead before picking it up again and losing more later?

Can you be strong and overweight? Yes, look at sumo wrestlers, world's strongest man contenders etc. Are they extreme examples? Yes, and they work damn hard for their strength and appearance but ask them to run four days per week for the rest of their lives and they'd struggle. What I'm trying to say is that your suggestions of running, remaining overweight, building more muscle and strength and eating lots of ('healthy') food all clash I'm afraid.

Its your body and if you want to give in and stay where you are in terms of weight then do it, but personally I believe the medical evidence that excess fat leads to health problems down the line.

/sigh yet another person who seems to think it's evil to want to eat more. Tbh should have expected as much asking that question on here. Look it's all about compromise right. You wanna be fit and healthy but you gotta be able to live your life. People say eat to live don't eat to live. But the reverse is true too. We don't live just to maintain perfectly functioning bodies our bodies exist to enable us to live well. And for some people being completely thin and healthy means being unhappy. And that is an unacceptable compromise. And there is decent well documented medical evidence that suggests that a lot of the stuff that is blamed on fat is actually the result of a crappy diet and no exercise. Even now people are beginning to understand that you can run x hours a week and still have heart problems if you are mostly sedentary. Yes bad is fat for you but these days even a moderate amount of fat takes the blames for problems it does not cause. This I believe to be true. Because I have met quite a few healthy fat people on my dads side of the family. One of them is 90 and still walks miles a day. Hes not morbidly obese but hes hardly skinny. Please look up the cooper study if you want to see the best most comprehensive study in this regard.

Ok I will say this for the last time

YES I WANT TO EAT MORE. THAT SHOULD BE BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS OTHERWISE I WOULD BE FINE WITH DIETING FOREVER. NO I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK THAT MAKES ME A FATTY. BECAUSE I THINK THAT MAKES YOU AN *SSHOLE

Sorry but I am up to hear with people telling me hmm sounds like you just want to eat more like it's a god damn accusation. Get of your high horses please.

Lol seems to me that when you don't like someone's comments you kick off with insults. I specifically said I was not having a dig.

Go eat to your hearts content if you want. If you want to second-guess what science may discover in x years time then go do it, why do you need anyone's approval anyway if you don't care what people think?

RHachicho

I've read through the whole thread and it sounds to me like you just just want to eat more (for example, "As someone who loves food, truly great food as much as I do it may really not be worth extending my life just to be miserable in it.") and that you're asking for people to agree with that position. I'm not having a dig here, just trying to get to the bottom of where you're coming from.

Why not have a break from the deficit for a while instead before picking it up again and losing more later?

Can you be strong and overweight? Yes, look at sumo wrestlers, world's strongest man contenders etc. Are they extreme examples? Yes, and they work damn hard for their strength and appearance but ask them to run four days per week for the rest of their lives and they'd struggle. What I'm trying to say is that your suggestions of running, remaining overweight, building more muscle and strength and eating lots of ('healthy') food all clash I'm afraid.

Its your body and if you want to give in and stay where you are in terms of weight then do it, but personally I believe the medical evidence that excess fat leads to health problems down the line.

/sigh yet another person who seems to think it's evil to want to eat more. Tbh should have expected as much asking that question on here. Look it's all about compromise right. You wanna be fit and healthy but you gotta be able to live your life. People say eat to live don't eat to live. But the reverse is true too. We don't live just to maintain perfectly functioning bodies our bodies exist to enable us to live well. And for some people being completely thin and healthy means being unhappy. And that is an unacceptable compromise. And there is decent well documented medical evidence that suggests that a lot of the stuff that is blamed on fat is actually the result of a crappy diet and no exercise. Even now people are beginning to understand that you can run x hours a week and still have heart problems if you are mostly sedentary. Yes bad is fat for you but these days even a moderate amount of fat takes the blames for problems it does not cause. This I believe to be true. Because I have met quite a few healthy fat people on my dads side of the family. One of them is 90 and still walks miles a day. Hes not morbidly obese but hes hardly skinny. Please look up the cooper study if you want to see the best most comprehensive study in this regard.

Ok I will say this for the last time

YES I WANT TO EAT MORE. THAT SHOULD BE BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS OTHERWISE I WOULD BE FINE WITH DIETING FOREVER. NO I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK THAT MAKES ME A FATTY. BECAUSE I THINK THAT MAKES YOU AN *SSHOLE

Sorry but I am up to hear with people telling me hmm sounds like you just want to eat more like it's a god damn accusation. Get of your high horses please.

Lol seems to me that when you don't like someone's comments you kick off with insults. I specifically said I was not having a dig.

Go eat to your hearts content if you want. If you want to second-guess what science may discover in x years time then go do it, why do you need anyone's approval anyway if you don't care what people think?

Oh I care what people think. I just choose what people opinions to care about. And I choose not to care about yours. Because from your post you have clearly ignored my opinion entirely and are out to tell me that my whole way of thinking about things is wrong. Get .. over .. yourself. And that *sshole quote you may notice was not a direct insult. IT's conditional on you or anyone else thinking that I am just a fatty. You reveal your own condescension. Or you are too stupid or lazy to spot a conditional statement. Personally I am betting on the condescension though. Good day.

47Jacqueline

My sister in law told me of a study of people who lived a long life that concluded the following. The three top things that lead to living a long, healthy life: not being too thin or too fat (being in your normal range with a few extra pounds on you), drinking a glass of wine or beer on occasion (not license to become a lush), and consistent exercise.

I let that be mi guide. because I am 67 and expect to live a long time. I don't fool myself by misinterpretting what over or underweight is.

MelodyandBarbells

You reach out for people's opinion and then insult them when they give it - Classy

What I don't get is when I read your profile. All this stuff about no longer wanting to be overweight. What changed all that? Is this really the first time you heard you can be fat and healthy? I would say the time to explore that option would have been 84 lbs ago - why now? What about all these overweight healthy people in your life who exercise, did they suddenly materialize? Why didn't you take them into consideration before trying to lose weight, why now?

I'm reverting to some of the other posts you hate so much. I feel like you've masked the problem statement and yes it comes out bit by bit instead, which makes the conversation confusing. What now seems important to me are statements like: living with hunger pangs, being miserable, etc. I could have sworn I've seen posts where you've said being under calories was a breeze but it seems now you're struggling like the rest of us do from time to time to eat foods you like and foods that satisfy you while remaining under calories? To me, that now seems more likely to be the problem statement rather than this can I be fat and healthy stuff. Because the answer to the latter is most people do not believe you can, but it's your life and you can do what you want. There wouldn't be much to say after that - unless you didn't ask the question that really was on your mind

EvgeniZyntx

What would your health and fitness goals be?

WBB55

CONGRATS ON YOUR LOSS!!

But here's what I want you to consider. I myself lost 45% of my highest weight. (since then I've put on some muscle, so that's why I've gained some back). And here's what I want you to consider:

(1) If your goal is 1800, that is too low. Eat more. Continue to count calories (or macros or carbs or whatever the hell you've been doing) BUT KEEP COUNTING FOR NOW. Just increase your goal, so you'll start to lose slower. This will help with EVERYTHING you've been feeling about the goals being too strict. Adding another 500 calories per day will seem like a dream after restricting for so long. Or figuring out your "maintenance" calories and eating that for a couple months.

(2) **Sits you down and looks you straight in the eyes** You have a long term (maybe life-long) over-eating problem. You could not have possibly gotten to 300+ pounds without an over-eating problem. I'm not saying you have to count calories for the rest of your life. Eventually it's possible that you will "know" what a maintenance amount of calories is to eat on average most days. BUT YOU ARE NOT THERE YET. You CANNOT treat your over-eating problem by switching to an "all you can eat" plan.

Your body clearly doesn't know what eating at maintenance over the long term "feels like." Give your body and brain that. Just for two months. See how you feel. I don't know you, and I'm making a lot of assumptions. But based on what I'm understanding from your posts, this is my advice.

SLLRunner

YES I WANT TO EAT MORE. THAT SHOULD BE BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS OTHERWISE I WOULD BE FINE WITH DIETING FOREVER. NO I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK THAT MAKES ME A FATTY. BECAUSE I THINK THAT MAKES YOU AN *SSHOLE

Sorry but I am up to hear with people telling me hmm sounds like you just want to eat more like it's a god damn accusation. Get of your high horses please.

For goodness sakes. I don't see where that poster ever said anything to elicit such a response.

I'm out.

3laine75

I haven't read all the responses so sorry if I'm repeating someone else but it sound like a bit of a cop- out (no snark intended).

You've done fantastic already, congrats on that btw, so why give up now if you're still overweight? We all get a bit scunnered but it'll be worth it eventually.

First time I was fed up, I did what you're suggesting and just eat normally (what I thought was normal anyway). I went from 131 to 172 in what felt like a heartbeat - in reality about 5 months. I'm still working to get that back off a year later!

Second time (a few months back now) I did a controlled bulk which is what I'd suggest to you (pretty sure you mentioned strength training anyway?!). I was nowhere near where I should have been in terms of bf% to get optimum results but it was better than piling on 20 or 30 lb indiscriminately. It's amazing how much a difference a few extra calories can make to your mindset AND your lifts - I set loads of new PRs during the 15 weeks I bulked.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide but seriously, give a clean bulk some consideration (I don't mean clean eating btw - F that).

Amitysk

YES I WANT TO EAT MORE. THAT SHOULD BE BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS OTHERWISE I WOULD BE FINE WITH DIETING FOREVER. NO I DONT CARE IF YOU THINK THAT MAKES ME A FATTY. BECAUSE I THINK THAT MAKES YOU AN *SSHOLE

Sorry but I am up to hear with people telling me hmm sounds like you just want to eat more like it's a god damn accusation. Get of your high horses please.

For goodness sakes. I don't see where that poster ever said anything to elicit such a response.

I'm out.

What just happened?

WBB55

What just happened?

We touched a nerve. And the OP is having some "hanger" issues. Which is TOTALLY understandable. I'd be hangry too, if I ate that much below my TDEE

WalkingAlong

I hate the 'hangry' label. If you disagree with someone's intake choice, fine, but their having emotion isn't support for your hypothesis. It's as bad as accusing a woman of PMSing.