Squats overrated?

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  • BenjaminMFP88
    BenjaminMFP88 Posts: 660 Member
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    Everything I've read extolls the virtues of squats above all other forms of exercise. So I've been methodically doing them once a week, with heavy weight and fairly high intensity, for nearly half a year now. But after squat day, my legs are next to useless with soreness for the next two to three days (like even walking or going up the stairs takes some mental preparation!) and I find myself avoiding jogging, soccer, basketball, etc.

    Isn't this defeating the purpose of exercise, if the consequences of performing it precludes us from enjoying normal life? Does anyone else experience this from squats? If so, do you have any suggested alternative exercises?

    Just a thought, but are you stretching after your workouts? I used to get sore like that all the time when I didn't stretch, but now that I do, it doesn't bother me so much. After leg day, I tend to finish my routine with 10-20 minutes doing light cardio, then 10 or so minutes of stretching. Sometimes I still feel a little sore but for the most part, it doesn't hinder anything for me.
  • sabified
    sabified Posts: 1,051 Member
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    Sorry OP, I'm no help to you but bump to save the info :)
  • Runningmischka
    Runningmischka Posts: 386 Member
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    Wow, great advice from this community, thanks all. My squats currently consist of 4 sets of 10 reps at 225,275,315,335. These are followed by deadlifts, lunges, and straight legged deadlifts. I'm 6', 185 lbs, and 44 years old, so I'm inclined to think that Sunofabeach is spot on about highlighting my age.

    I wouldn't chalk it up to age. Granted - I'm "only" 35, almost 36 but I have worked out for years with competitive natural bodybuilders in their 50's who don't find age to be as big a problem as you're having. What I'd advise is to move your deadlifts to your back day. I have never done so many big lifts in one day - I suspect THAT'S what's killing your legs for days on end. If you're going as heavy on the other excercises as you are on squats I'm not surprised your sapped for a few days.

    Here is my leg day - and I recover just fine within a day or two.

    Squat (185 x 12, 225 x 10, 315 x 8)
    Leg Press (180 x 12, 270 x 10, 360 x 8, 450 x 6)
    Calf Raise machine (150 x 12 ,160 x10, 170 x 8)
    Leg Extension (150 x 12 ,160 x10, 170 x 8)
    Leg Curls ((150 x 12 ,160 x10, 170 x 8)

    I go heavy on deadlifts - and I couldn't imagine doing them on leg day.

    My legs day looks exactly the same!! ...with much lower numbers, of course :bigsmile: I copied mine from M. Kory's fitness channel. I also run 3-4 miles on the same day ( I do not recommend that for anyone, unless you know you can handle it. Please don't do it and then blame me for "bad" advice :wink: ) I very rarely have sore muscles, and it only takes about a day to fully recover.

    ETA: someone mentioned a foam roller. Best seventeen dollars I spent in a long time.
  • yogicarl
    yogicarl Posts: 1,260 Member
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    - do what you enjoy doing and ditch the squats.

    "ducks head as a dozen squat enthusiasts swoop in from the nearby squat rack"

    That's one option, but given that he said he always does them with heavy weight/high intensity, I'd say that's why his legs are trashed every time he finishes squats.

    Try increasing volume, lowering weight and intensity and see how your legs respond to that. Then do the heavy/intense workout maybe once a month. Mixing up weights/intensity is a good way to keep your muscles confused.

    Yes, agreed. I thought that, as the OP was following leg day with football etc., perhaps not he best way to allow rest and repair and possibly driving towards exhaustion instead.

    I was using weighted squats to increase my ability to hold a yoga pose called Utkatasana - imagine sitting on a chair with your arms held vertically, looking to your thumbs and then take the chair away - but because I was practising Ashtanga yoga 6 days out of 7, the squats were not increasing strength for me. Something had to go and I made my choice. For me it was just to do more of what I wanted to improve in. Hence my alternate viewpoint to the OP - certainly not saying squats are not the answer.
  • RECowgill
    RECowgill Posts: 881 Member
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    Also, your muscles can lose what strength/endurance they have in as little as 2 days so doing them only once a week is likely not enough. Try doing them every 3 days for now and work towards doing them every 2 days. Carbs after a workout also help reduce the acid build up in the muscles and may help reduce soreness.

    I disagree. I only squat once a week and have no issues losing strength.

    Exactly. I squat once a week as well, my progress has been fine, my gains are there. Reduce volume, find the right balance for you. I would never do 4x10 sets at that high of a weight, too much weight and too much volume. Pick one or the other but scale it back.

    If you follow stronglifts 5x5 at all, you know that getting sore and worn out is not the goal. Overtraining and wearing down the muscle is not the goal. The right amount of training is. If it feels like its too little, it might actually be the right amount. You should not be walking around crippled for half of your week, and you don't have to to make steady strength gains with the squat.

    And by the way OP just to answer your title, squats are definitely not overrated. They are hands down the best exercise to do out of all exercises. If you could only do one thing, squat, and forget the rest.
  • rick_po
    rick_po Posts: 449 Member
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    You're doing great, so you'll probably come up with a good solution all by yourself, but consider doing a push/pull split, instead of an upper/lower split. Spread that leg work out over two days instead of one Leg Day Of Death.
  • DanceswithWow
    DanceswithWow Posts: 108
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    SQUAT or SQUAT til you drop That is The Question..

    My name is Dances w/ Wow..

    You have answered your own question in two ways..

    First what you are witnessing is an addiction to exertion fatique....You trash your legs believing that Go heavy or Go home

    and then Blaming age as the reason they are over trashed..


    Your Goal is both fully armored wheels.. and the trying to keep them fully armored plated..

    Once a week at the load you are doing is for some one CONTINUALLY trying to build size - Tom Platz size.....At 41 how much more size did you want to achieve? Also the level of soarness you are describing..if you are not on the sauce.. is way over the top..

    Your replenishment cycle by itself means half your day is spent sleeping to repair..fron the beating you give them..

    If you are the size you want to be.

    Continue to Train them with squats and just split up the workload.. This will by default lessen the EXERTION fatique Soarness ..
    The same level of intensity is accomplish able and leg size effective without once a weekly beating of being a load bearer..

    on my squat Day.... basic pyramid up to 75% of my one rep max...

    then I do 1 minute rides.. to retain vascularity. I use only two..rotations keeping my revolutions/ steps, stairs or climbs per minute at my cardio baseline then uping the cardio intensity by 20% to finish to ensure enough lypolytic enzymes stay relevant in my blood stream.and. to keep my heart accustomed to the threshold I want my legs to be..

    I active rest for up :180 seconds Then complete my squat routine w/ 25 reps..in a row @ 125Lbs ..Ina row.. No bottoming out just smooth and rhythmic.. as long as i can hit 25 reps .. with out a full stop.. I know my legs will remain Thick and ample.. for my size 33in waist..and when I wear shorts..

    yes legs are soar but at two times week..the soarness is half of what a once a week leg workout a week will do with twice the benenfits..

    5x5, HIIT, and other such programs have a premise that.. you are some how weak if you cant do them built into their Mount Olympus programs..In reality you are demonstrating immaturity and insecurity about your training abilities over the long haul if you batter and batter and batter and beat your body down to make them submit just to prove you can do it..

    the routine I laid out is called Motorskill training.. and it will not allow you sacrifice.. or compromise your end game..because there are work arounds that go beyond just adding load and manhandling exercises


    The Motorskill Method forces you to think through and strategically solve how you want your muscles achieve amazing results or a maintenance result without a constant barbarian at the gate concept of what exercise intensity load and/or frequency should be..


    Bottom line greater safety at the top end, more enjoyment, and awesome predictability with regard to outcome.. marriageability of soarness..and is for 100% of end users.. not just for those whose ego has to be perceived as always down for the struggle.


    My name is Dances with Wow..

    I help individuals just like you train, build, compete and condition body parts that exude indomitable Life force.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    SQUAT or SQUAT til you drop That is The Question..

    My name is Dances w/ Wow..

    You have answered your own question in two ways..

    First what you are witnessing is an addiction to exertion fatique....You trash your legs believing that Go heavy or Go home

    and then Blaming age as the reason they are over trashed..


    Your Goal is both fully armored wheels.. and the trying to keep them fully armored plated..

    Once a week at the load you are doing is for some one CONTINUALLY trying to build size - Tom Platz size.....At 41 how much more size did you want to achieve? Also the level of soarness you are describing..if you are not on the sauce.. is way over the top..

    Your replenishment cycle by itself means half your day is spent sleeping to repair..fron the beating you give them..

    If you are the size you want to be.

    Continue to Train them with squats and just split up the workload.. This will by default lessen the EXERTION fatique Soarness ..
    The same level of intensity is accomplish able and leg size effective without once a weekly beating of being a load bearer..

    on my squat Day.... basic pyramid up to 75% of my one rep max...

    then I do 1 minute rides.. to retain vascularity. I use only two..rotations keeping my revolutions/ steps, stairs or climbs per minute at my cardio baseline then uping the cardio intensity by 20% to finish to ensure enough lypolytic enzymes stay relevant in my blood stream.and. to keep my heart accustomed to the threshold I want my legs to be..

    I active rest for up :180 seconds Then complete my squat routine w/ 25 reps..in a row @ 125Lbs ..Ina row.. No bottoming out just smooth and rhythmic.. as long as i can hit 25 reps .. with out a full stop.. I know my legs will remain Thick and ample.. for my size 33in waist..and when I wear shorts..

    yes legs are soar but at two times week..the soarness is half of what a once a week leg workout a week will do with twice the benenfits..

    5x5, HIIT, and other such programs have a premise that.. you are some how weak if you cant do them built into their Mount Olympus programs..In reality you are demonstrating immaturity and insecurity about your training abilities over the long haul if you batter and batter and batter and beat your body down to make them submit just to prove you can do it..

    the routine I laid out is called Motorskill training.. and it will not allow you sacrifice.. or compromise your end game..because there are work arounds that go beyond just adding load and manhandling exercises


    The Motorskill Method forces you to think through and strategically solve how you want your muscles achieve amazing results or a maintenance result without a constant barbarian at the gate concept of what exercise intensity load and/or frequency should be..


    Bottom line greater safety at the top end, more enjoyment, and awesome predictability with regard to outcome.. marriageability of soarness..and is for 100% of end users.. not just for those whose ego has to be perceived as always down for the struggle.


    My name is Dances with Wow..

    I help individuals just like you train, build, compete and condition body parts that exude indomitable Life force.

    Ah, now the thread is complete.

    I'll just let the life-force wash over me for a minute...
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
    Options
    SQUAT or SQUAT til you drop That is The Question..

    My name is Dances w/ Wow..

    You have answered your own question in two ways..

    First what you are witnessing is an addiction to exertion fatique....You trash your legs believing that Go heavy or Go home

    and then Blaming age as the reason they are over trashed..


    Your Goal is both fully armored wheels.. and the trying to keep them fully armored plated..

    Once a week at the load you are doing is for some one CONTINUALLY trying to build size - Tom Platz size.....At 41 how much more size did you want to achieve? Also the level of soarness you are describing..if you are not on the sauce.. is way over the top..

    Your replenishment cycle by itself means half your day is spent sleeping to repair..fron the beating you give them..

    If you are the size you want to be.

    Continue to Train them with squats and just split up the workload.. This will by default lessen the EXERTION fatique Soarness ..
    The same level of intensity is accomplish able and leg size effective without once a weekly beating of being a load bearer..

    on my squat Day.... basic pyramid up to 75% of my one rep max...

    then I do 1 minute rides.. to retain vascularity. I use only two..rotations keeping my revolutions/ steps, stairs or climbs per minute at my cardio baseline then uping the cardio intensity by 20% to finish to ensure enough lypolytic enzymes stay relevant in my blood stream.and. to keep my heart accustomed to the threshold I want my legs to be..

    I active rest for up :180 seconds Then complete my squat routine w/ 25 reps..in a row @ 125Lbs ..Ina row.. No bottoming out just smooth and rhythmic.. as long as i can hit 25 reps .. with out a full stop.. I know my legs will remain Thick and ample.. for my size 33in waist..and when I wear shorts..

    yes legs are soar but at two times week..the soarness is half of what a once a week leg workout a week will do with twice the benenfits..

    5x5, HIIT, and other such programs have a premise that.. you are some how weak if you cant do them built into their Mount Olympus programs..In reality you are demonstrating immaturity and insecurity about your training abilities over the long haul if you batter and batter and batter and beat your body down to make them submit just to prove you can do it..

    the routine I laid out is called Motorskill training.. and it will not allow you sacrifice.. or compromise your end game..because there are work arounds that go beyond just adding load and manhandling exercises


    The Motorskill Method forces you to think through and strategically solve how you want your muscles achieve amazing results or a maintenance result without a constant barbarian at the gate concept of what exercise intensity load and/or frequency should be..


    Bottom line greater safety at the top end, more enjoyment, and awesome predictability with regard to outcome.. marriageability of soarness..and is for 100% of end users.. not just for those whose ego has to be perceived as always down for the struggle.


    My name is Dances with Wow..

    I help individuals just like you train, build, compete and condition body parts that exude indomitable Life force.

    Ah, now the thread is complete.

    I'll just let the life-force wash over me for a minute...

    "marriageability of soarness?"

    Does this have anything to do with mating eagles?
  • kessler4130
    kessler4130 Posts: 150 Member
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    In my opinion, if you do absolutely no other exercises ever for the rest of your life with the exception of 4, it would be squats, dead lifts, bench press, and overhead press. And believe me, I absolutely loathe bench press and overhead press, but they are awesome compound movements that build a stronger core, stabilizing muscles and synergize well with each other.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    What is odd to me is that after 6 months your body hasn't adapted to the point where you barely get sore.

    What is odd to me is how much more than me he's lifting after only 6 months...(and at a similar age/weight as mine).

    :indifferent:

    Some people are just stronger than hell.

    And alas, the inverse of this is also true.
  • yogicarl
    yogicarl Posts: 1,260 Member
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    . sorry - not relevant to the OP's question. deleted.
  • kelly_e_montana
    kelly_e_montana Posts: 1,999 Member
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    I don't really get sore from squats unless I incorporate a bunch of sets of pause squats or if I do faster squats at a higher volume/lower weight. I usually just do 5/3/1 ish progressions and feel fine. I do leg exercises regularly (deadlifts, glute ham raises, lunges with plates, machines, etc.) and really I only ever get sore on high volume/low intensity. I've rarely experienced the leg day phenomenon even though I'll work on them for 60-90 minutes, often working up to heavy triples, doubles or singles.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    In my opinion, if you do absolutely no other exercises ever for the rest of your life with the exception of 4, it would be squats, dead lifts, bench press, and overhead press. And believe me, I absolutely loathe bench press and overhead press, but they are awesome compound movements that build a stronger core, stabilizing muscles and synergize well with each other.

    Agreed - in the weight lifting sense - I would want to throw in some form of pull-ups though, unless deadlifts affect the lats in the same way? I don't know; I'm asking.

    well there is no question they are engaged- but I wouldn't say they are a direct relation of equal work. They aren't working- they are just engaged.

    I dislike the fact that the program I am on has NO direct back work at all- it is ALL bench, squat deads. My only accessories are DB flies and good mornings.

    When I'm done with this- I'll go back to a program with more direct back work- really the back is such a big muscle grouping ONE thing is going to have a hard time hitting it. But if ALL you had was a Barbell- deads and rows would get you really far.
    But I think pull ups or direct lat work is needed.

    But no- I do not think deads alone are not adequate for substantial back work.
  • AtmaKing
    AtmaKing Posts: 145 Member
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    Started 5x5, not the volume you're currently lifting. However much more frequent. I squat 3 times a week.

    Monday Squat.
    Tuesday 1st day after squats Holy Oh My God I'm gonna die.
    Wednesday, I'm not going to be able to squat today. (Did it anyway)
    Thursday, well I'm not as bad as Tuesday.
    Friday, Can't I just not squat, (Nope its on the list of things to do today, so I might as well get it done)
    Saturday, whew break not that bad
    Sunday, Hey my legs are ok today.
    Monday, Squat day but I'm ready.
    Tuesday, Hey this is gonna be a good thing.
    Everyday after, not a big deal.

    Yes I'm sore but not anything like I've been. I also started taking some BCAA's and eat bananas daliy now to help with the recovery process.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    Wow, great advice from this community, thanks all. My squats currently consist of 4 sets of 10 reps at 225,275,315,335. These are followed by deadlifts, lunges, and straight legged deadlifts. I'm 6', 185 lbs, and 44 years old, so I'm inclined to think that Sunofabeach is spot on about highlighting my age.

    Okay, I had a feeling there was more to it than just squats themselves. Didn't read everybody else's replies, but here's my thoughts. Look into a heavier load at 3 - 5 sets for the squats. Something like Starting Strength would be a good start for you. Also, you've have a good level of strength established so you may even consider 5/3/1. Since your sport activities are important to you, I would train 2 to 3 times a week tops; you can always move to a 4-day split in the off-season assuming you have an off-season. If you end-up squatting 2 or 3 times a week, you probably won't need the SLDL's or Lunges.
  • Chevy_Quest
    Chevy_Quest Posts: 2,012 Member
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    bump reading and learning
  • sabified
    sabified Posts: 1,051 Member
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    In my opinion, if you do absolutely no other exercises ever for the rest of your life with the exception of 4, it would be squats, dead lifts, bench press, and overhead press. And believe me, I absolutely loathe bench press and overhead press, but they are awesome compound movements that build a stronger core, stabilizing muscles and synergize well with each other.


    Are overhead presses the same as military presses?
  • AtmaKing
    AtmaKing Posts: 145 Member
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    Are overhead presses the same as military presses?

    If you are sitting down they are the same.

    If you are standing Military Press your feet are together and Overhead Press your feet are shoulder width apart.

    Slight variation in musclue groups used in the back but overall same basic lift.

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