Squats overrated?
Replies
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Holy cow. One logs back in to find a dissertation in progress!
After skimming through all of the excellent suggestions, I think the histogram would show that my volume is too high, my weight is too heavy, and my frequency is too low. Also, it appears that deadlifts and squats on the same day could definitely be contributing to my inability to recover. I will experiment with changing all of these variable and report back in the near future.
Proper protein intake was also an intriguing suggestion. I don’t mindfully pay attention to the amount of protein I eat. However, the suggestion of eating 1g of protein for every pound of lean body weight seems incredibly high. I can’t imagine being able to eat that much meat, and I’m really not keen on supplements. I’ll have to do a little more research and proper protein amounts.
The quality of experience and advice is fantastic, thanks for all the help (although there was one post that was downright bizarre...thanks for the advice, but just a little too mystical for me to apply). Also, there are so many fit, healthy, good-looking people on this thread – keep it up! You’re all very inspirational.0 -
Holy cow. One logs back in to find a dissertation in progress!
After skimming through all of the excellent suggestions, I think the histogram would show that my volume is too high, my weight is too heavy, and my frequency is too low. Also, it appears that deadlifts and squats on the same day could definitely be contributing to my inability to recover. I will experiment with changing all of these variable and report back in the near future.
Proper protein intake was also an intriguing suggestion. I don’t mindfully pay attention to the amount of protein I eat. However, the suggestion of eating 1g of protein for every pound of lean body weight seems incredibly high. I can’t imagine being able to eat that much meat, and I’m really not keen on supplements. I’ll have to do a little more research and proper protein amounts.
The quality of experience and advice is fantastic, thanks for all the help (although there was one post that was downright bizarre...thanks for the advice, but just a little too mystical for me to apply). Also, there are so many fit, healthy, good-looking people on this thread – keep it up! You’re all very inspirational.
You're consuming substantially less than this and at the workload you explained earlier??? Yeah, this should definitely be something for you to consider.0 -
Holy cow. One logs back in to find a dissertation in progress!
After skimming through all of the excellent suggestions, I think the histogram would show that my volume is too high, my weight is too heavy, and my frequency is too low. Also, it appears that deadlifts and squats on the same day could definitely be contributing to my inability to recover. I will experiment with changing all of these variable and report back in the near future.
Proper protein intake was also an intriguing suggestion. I don’t mindfully pay attention to the amount of protein I eat. However, the suggestion of eating 1g of protein for every pound of lean body weight seems incredibly high. I can’t imagine being able to eat that much meat, and I’m really not keen on supplements. I’ll have to do a little more research and proper protein amounts.
The quality of experience and advice is fantastic, thanks for all the help (although there was one post that was downright bizarre...thanks for the advice, but just a little too mystical for me to apply). Also, there are so many fit, healthy, good-looking people on this thread – keep it up! You’re all very inspirational.
Late to the game here - but a couple of points (well...really emphasis of others' points)
- definitely look to squat more than 1 x a week.
- you can even look to do the similar volumes - just spread it out
- try varying rep ranges for your days
- age can be an issue with recovery - but squatting only once a week is more of an issue imo. I am 47 next month and, when having a good training run, squat 3 x a week. I never gets DOMS when I do and only get hip flexor issues when on a high intensity/volume block (and that's mainly because I also pull sumo)
- try foam rolling and/or stretching after or on ret days
1g or protein per lb of LBM is really not that much - I get about g per lb if body weight (so about 1.3g per lb LBM) and I am a vegetarian!0 -
QFTMFTOK. You're all right, and I'm wrong.0 -
This is why football players are slow and weak
and ruggers are made of glass.0 -
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Do them more often! You shouldn't be miserably sore afterwards unless they're kind of a shock to your system.0
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You're consuming substantially less than this and at the workload you explained earlier??? Yeah, this should definitely be something for you to consider.
Changing frequency and splitting my routines should be easy enough to test and will probably have a beneficial, and at worst, a benign effect on my body. But as you say, the protein increase seems a more interesting experiment. Read a wealth of information thanks to Sarauk2sf's profile (she is certainly an advocate, along with many other people in this community, who amaze me with their passion for health.). Most of what I read suggested that I should eat 160g of protein everyday, which is probably double what I eat currently eat (on average). Seems like a lot, and I'm struggling with how I would actually consume that much. Seems like my entire day would have to be planned around consuming protein? It seems excessive and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle, but my mind is open.
I suppose I should start a new thread in the Nutrition section, but I'll just ask the question here. Do the lean people out there consume 150g+ of protein EVERY day? Or only on the days that you do lifts with the major muscle groups (quads, chest, back)? Do you scale back protein consumption on rest days and cardio/sport days? If so, by what percentage?0 -
You're consuming substantially less than this and at the workload you explained earlier??? Yeah, this should definitely be something for you to consider.
Changing frequency and splitting my routines should be easy enough to test and will probably have a beneficial, and at worst, a benign effect on my body. But as you say, the protein increase seems a more interesting experiment. Read a wealth of information thanks to Sarauk2sf's profile (she is certainly an advocate, along with many other people in this community, who amaze me with their passion for health.). Most of what I read suggested that I should eat 160g of protein everyday, which is probably double what I eat currently eat (on average). Seems like a lot, and I'm struggling with how I would actually consume that much. Seems like my entire day would have to be planned around consuming protein? It seems excessive and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle, but my mind is open.
I suppose I should start a new thread in the Nutrition section, but I'll just ask the question here. Do the lean people out there consume 150g+ of protein EVERY day? Or only on the days that you do lifts with the major muscle groups (quads, chest, back)? Do you scale back protein consumption on rest days and cardio/sport days? If so, by what percentage?
I get it in everyday. Unless there's a reason where I'm hostage to someone else's food choices...
normally I get around 180g/day (sometimes it's 150, sometimes 210). That's probably considered quite a lot for someone who weighs 63kg. But I'm a fan of high protein foods.
For instance, two decent sized chicken breast wrapped in two pieces of smoked bacon each and roasted comes out at 90g+ of protein. If a short-*kitten* like me can put that away, then a 6footer like you should have no problem. And that's a single meal.
250g of greek yoghurt would be another 25g of protein, give-or-take. Also, fairly calorie light with some fruit chopped into it.
A good protein shake would be 200ish cals and have about 40g of protein.
So some greek yoghurt for brek, couple of chicken breast for lunch, protein shake when you can manage it and you're already at 155g for the day without an evening meal.
You just need to investigate foods that hit your macros...0 -
I'm ~5'10", currently weigh ~155 lbs and trying to slow, lean bulk. Last month I gained 2 pounds and averaged 187g protein/day.Do the lean people out there consume 150g+ of protein EVERY day? Yes
Or only on the days that you do lifts with the major muscle groups (quads, chest, back)? No
Do you scale back protein consumption on rest days and cardio/sport days? No
Could I have had less protein? Maybe but I'd rather have too much than not enough. There's research that suggests eating a high protein calorie surplus diet does not result in body fat % increase.
http://www.jissn.com/content/11/1/19
"Conclusions
Consuming 5.5 times the recommended daily allowance of protein has no effect on body composition in resistance-trained individuals who otherwise maintain the same training regimen. This is the first interventional study to demonstrate that consuming a hypercaloric high protein diet does not result in an increase in body fat."0 -
You're consuming substantially less than this and at the workload you explained earlier??? Yeah, this should definitely be something for you to consider.
Changing frequency and splitting my routines should be easy enough to test and will probably have a beneficial, and at worst, a benign effect on my body. But as you say, the protein increase seems a more interesting experiment. Read a wealth of information thanks to Sarauk2sf's profile (she is certainly an advocate, along with many other people in this community, who amaze me with their passion for health.). Most of what I read suggested that I should eat 160g of protein everyday, which is probably double what I eat currently eat (on average). Seems like a lot, and I'm struggling with how I would actually consume that much. Seems like my entire day would have to be planned around consuming protein? It seems excessive and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle, but my mind is open.
I suppose I should start a new thread in the Nutrition section, but I'll just ask the question here. Do the lean people out there consume 150g+ of protein EVERY day? Or only on the days that you do lifts with the major muscle groups (quads, chest, back)? Do you scale back protein consumption on rest days and cardio/sport days? If so, by what percentage?
I consistently eat around 200+ grams of protein a day. It's not that hard once you get the hang of it, though it is harder when cutting and I pack my lunch most work days. I generally eat 3 eggs in the morning with 1/2 a cup of egg whites, anywhere from 10-13 ounces of lean meat at lunch with 3 or 4 serving of vegetables, a piece of fruit and a yogurt, and again at dinner 10-16 ounces of meat with vegetables. I mix in some high fiber breads where I can, and enjoy a beer or two at the end of the day when I have room. The biggest difficulty is hitting my fiber goal.0 -
You're consuming substantially less than this and at the workload you explained earlier??? Yeah, this should definitely be something for you to consider.
Changing frequency and splitting my routines should be easy enough to test and will probably have a beneficial, and at worst, a benign effect on my body. But as you say, the protein increase seems a more interesting experiment. Read a wealth of information thanks to Sarauk2sf's profile (she is certainly an advocate, along with many other people in this community, who amaze me with their passion for health.). Most of what I read suggested that I should eat 160g of protein everyday, which is probably double what I eat currently eat (on average). Seems like a lot, and I'm struggling with how I would actually consume that much. Seems like my entire day would have to be planned around consuming protein? It seems excessive and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle, but my mind is open.
I suppose I should start a new thread in the Nutrition section, but I'll just ask the question here. Do the lean people out there consume 150g+ of protein EVERY day? Or only on the days that you do lifts with the major muscle groups (quads, chest, back)? Do you scale back protein consumption on rest days and cardio/sport days? If so, by what percentage?
I get it in everyday. Unless there's a reason where I'm hostage to someone else's food choices...
normally I get around 180g/day (sometimes it's 150, sometimes 210). That's probably considered quite a lot for someone who weighs 63kg. But I'm a fan of high protein foods.
For instance, two decent sized chicken breast wrapped in two pieces of smoked bacon each and roasted comes out at 90g+ of protein. If a short-*kitten* like me can put that away, then a 6footer like you should have no problem. And that's a single meal.
250g of greek yoghurt would be another 25g of protein, give-or-take. Also, fairly calorie light with some fruit chopped into it.
A good protein shake would be 200ish cals and have about 40g of protein.
So some greek yoghurt for brek, couple of chicken breast for lunch, protein shake when you can manage it and you're already at 155g for the day without an evening meal.
You just need to investigate foods that hit your macros...
Or the usual standby breakfast of bacon and eggs. 3 eggs and an ounce of bacon (~2-3 slices, depending on thickness) comes out to about 28g of protein. It's a little more calorie-heavy, coming in around 500 calories, but that shouldn't be an issue for an active 6' tall man (and might actually still qualify as "light," I know a lot of the guys on here will put away twice that for breakfast).0 -
You're consuming substantially less than this and at the workload you explained earlier??? Yeah, this should definitely be something for you to consider.
Changing frequency and splitting my routines should be easy enough to test and will probably have a beneficial, and at worst, a benign effect on my body. But as you say, the protein increase seems a more interesting experiment. Read a wealth of information thanks to Sarauk2sf's profile (she is certainly an advocate, along with many other people in this community, who amaze me with their passion for health.). Most of what I read suggested that I should eat 160g of protein everyday, which is probably double what I eat currently eat (on average). Seems like a lot, and I'm struggling with how I would actually consume that much. Seems like my entire day would have to be planned around consuming protein? It seems excessive and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle, but my mind is open.
I suppose I should start a new thread in the Nutrition section, but I'll just ask the question here. Do the lean people out there consume 150g+ of protein EVERY day? Or only on the days that you do lifts with the major muscle groups (quads, chest, back)? Do you scale back protein consumption on rest days and cardio/sport days? If so, by what percentage?
I get it in everyday. Unless there's a reason where I'm hostage to someone else's food choices...
normally I get around 180g/day (sometimes it's 150, sometimes 210). That's probably considered quite a lot for someone who weighs 63kg. But I'm a fan of high protein foods.
For instance, two decent sized chicken breast wrapped in two pieces of smoked bacon each and roasted comes out at 90g+ of protein. If a short-*kitten* like me can put that away, then a 6footer like you should have no problem. And that's a single meal.
250g of greek yoghurt would be another 25g of protein, give-or-take. Also, fairly calorie light with some fruit chopped into it.
A good protein shake would be 200ish cals and have about 40g of protein.
So some greek yoghurt for brek, couple of chicken breast for lunch, protein shake when you can manage it and you're already at 155g for the day without an evening meal.
You just need to investigate foods that hit your macros...
Or the usual standby breakfast of bacon and eggs. 3 eggs and an ounce of bacon (~2-3 slices, depending on thickness) comes out to about 28g of protein. It's a little more calorie-heavy, coming in around 500 calories, but that shouldn't be an issue for an active 6' tall man (and might actually still qualify as "light," I know a lot of the guys on here will put away twice that for breakfast).
I agree eggs are another great source.
Just giving him an example where he could easily get all his protein in without going mad on the calories. It can be scaled up for a six-footer (or down to a five-footer!) by the addition of more or less carbs/fats in side dishes, etc...
tbh, I don't even know if he's cutting, or what. But he should have plenty of options now.0 -
my favorite protein laden snack- outside of steak, or bacon and eggs...
120 grams of 10% milk fat plain greek yogurt
or 230 grams of low fat plain greek
(I'm not picky- they taste the same to me- just one lets me eat more- but unfortunately- it's harder to find)
warm in microwave for 30-45 seconds:
2.5 oz of frozen blackberries
2.5 oz frozen raspberries
stir in 29 grams (1 scoop) of protein (I use vanilla gold standard)
after completely mixed- add warm berries.
it's like eating cake. or ice cream. it's horribly delicious- and it's my favorite part of the day.
240 calories and 42 grams of protein. So full of win.
Tuna and milk are great options- separately not together- just two other protein laden sources. easy to eat and not high calorie.0 -
120 grams of 10% milk fat plain greek yogurt
or 230 grams of low fat plain greek
(I'm not picky- they taste the same to me- just one lets me eat more- but unfortunately- it's harder to find)
warm in microwave for 30-45 seconds:
2.5 oz of frozen blackberries
2.5 oz frozen raspberries
stir in 29 grams (1 scoop) of protein (I use vanilla gold standard)
after completely mixed- add warm berries.
it's like eating cake. or ice cream. it's horribly delicious- and it's my favorite part of the day.
240 calories and 42 grams of protein. So full of win.
Close to my breakfast of choice (including the protein brand and flavor) - replace greek yoghurt with quark (just a local source variation), add 30g of muesli and it's a favorite.0 -
I do squats but I also do a lot of other activities that include running etc. So my squat workouts are typically lighter and shorter this time of the year when I'm doing a lot of other activities. During the dead of winter, I don't do as much of the other stuff and that's when I get more serious about heavy squatting.
My legs size does not suffer from this practice, probably look better now than when I'm really squatting heavy in the winter too because I'm leaner.0 -
Now that the squat over rated question has been settled
your question about protein..poses a bigger numeric consideration..
If your quest is to keep legs growing protein consumption should remain consistent even on off days.. as a surplus has to be available for the new beating you will most likely put them through.
If however maintaining size and strength are the on your radar a 20% shift in protein between workout days will allow protein uptake to avoid a nutrient plateau. You never want any exercised muscle getting use to the same old intake an eating plan
for the volume and the amount of intensity the 1.3g/lb is spot on..
To get this in your stomach 30% of the weekly meals should consist of a protein cocktail - three distinct proteins in one sitting
these are the lean whole food protein combinations I use to keep my thighs thick and vascular..:and the replenishment from my squat routine from becoming old hat.
Elk, ostrich and whole eggs -
chicken fish and tofu
buffalo, beef, and pork
Salmon, sea bass, shrimp
surf and turf - catfish or trout , steak , dark meat chicken
Your protein number (Pn#) stat looks as follows = (body weight)/2.2 x(1.3gm - 1.5gm/kilo) = ______/kilo gram of body weight low end and______ is the high end..
your total food frequency for the week is at least 28 meals. (2 before 12 and 2 after 2pm)
if you are able to consume all 28 based on your protein number(Pn#), This would mean you have met your bodies total protein replenishment need 100% of the time for that week.
Now you have a self test tool and great yard stick for which to gauge metabolic repair from the intensity you do
hope this answers how you get that much protein in..
Nothing mystical about side stepping the bonafide calorie booby trap..
Dances w/ Wow
Lifeforce all fired upYou're consuming substantially less than this and at the workload you explained earlier??? Yeah, this should definitely be something for you to consider.
Changing frequency and splitting my routines should be easy enough to test and will probably have a beneficial, and at worst, a benign effect on my body. But as you say, the protein increase seems a more interesting experiment. Read a wealth of information thanks to Sarauk2sf's profile (she is certainly an advocate, along with many other people in this community, who amaze me with their passion for health.). Most of what I read suggested that I should eat 160g of protein everyday, which is probably double what I eat currently eat (on average). Seems like a lot, and I'm struggling with how I would actually consume that much. Seems like my entire day would have to be planned around consuming protein? It seems excessive and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle, but my mind is open.
I suppose I should start a new thread in the Nutrition section, but I'll just ask the question here. Do the lean people out there consume 150g+ of protein EVERY day? Or only on the days that you do lifts with the major muscle groups (quads, chest, back)? Do you scale back protein consumption on rest days and cardio/sport days? If so, by what percentage?0 -
120 grams of 10% milk fat plain greek yogurt
or 230 grams of low fat plain greek
(I'm not picky- they taste the same to me- just one lets me eat more- but unfortunately- it's harder to find)
warm in microwave for 30-45 seconds:
2.5 oz of frozen blackberries
2.5 oz frozen raspberries
stir in 29 grams (1 scoop) of protein (I use vanilla gold standard)
after completely mixed- add warm berries.
it's like eating cake. or ice cream. it's horribly delicious- and it's my favorite part of the day.
240 calories and 42 grams of protein. So full of win.
Close to my breakfast of choice (including the protein brand and flavor) - replace greek yoghurt with quark (just a local source variation), add 30g of muesli and it's a favorite.
a favorite because it's fracking delicious!!! OMNOMNOMNOMNOM0 -
235 down to 195 - around 12% BF currently. I ate roughly 200g of protein/day throughout the loss process and I continue to. Learn to love Costco (or Sam's or whatever). Egg whites by the carton and $2.99/ lb Perdue chicken breasts enter the cart weekly. I grill up 4-5 lbs of chicken breast every Sunday and make 5 cups of brown rice at the same time and pack it all in Gladware.
Typical day:
Breakfast
1/2 cup old fashioned oats
1 whole egg
3 egg whites
9:30 a.m.
4-5 oz grilled chicken
1/2 cup brown rice
1 low fat cheese stick
2 cups raw veggies (broccoli, carrots, cauliflower)
Lunch
Same grilled chicken on whole wheat with mustard, lettuce and slice of cheese
medium apple
2:30 p.m.
4-5 oz grilled chicken
1/2 cup brown rice
1 low fat cheese stick
2 cups raw veggies (broccoli, carrots, cauliflower)
Dinner
Varies - always a 5-6 oz portion of lean protein, a starch, and vegetable.
Before dinner that adds up to 199g of protein in 1599 calories with 38g of fat and 156g of carbs. I'm not big on keeping my diary open - IDK why, I guess I find it a little weird for someone to go clawing through my food diary (and I don't want them to see the poor choices I make on the golf course sucking down canned "aiming juice")0 -
I really find myself questioning squats, they interfere with my running routine. I did a kettlebell class last week with high intensity squats with weights and I couldn't walk properly for 5 days afterwards, missed all of my running sessions for one high intensity class. Sucks!
I run and do squats (plus deadlifts). Since running is my focus, I progress the weight slower on the squats. You can gain strength and keep up the running. Just lower the squat intensity and you *might* have to progress the weight slower than most.0 -
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My squats currently consist of 4 sets of 10 reps at 225,275,315,335.
Not sure if anyone brought this up yet and no offense, but I doubt you're doing full squats. 335x10 would put you at about a 450 1RM and at 185 lbs that'd put you as a veteran lifter. Squatting for 6 months I just don't see that happening... Additionally the prevalence of half-squats and quarter squats in most gyms is ridiculous. For example, I only see about 10% of people squatting even going 3/4 in the gyms I go to.
I would post a video of your squats or a pic of you at your full squat depth to have someone check it out.
I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to call him out. I was also thinking Smith Machine.0 -
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So based on all of the helpful suggestions here, I’m definitely changing my squat routine and will be upping the frequency to twice a week. But I think what may be more interesting for me is to experiment with the huge protein uptake that everyone is advising. Today was day one, and I’m at 115g of protein after my afternoon snack. But I’ve got to say, I feel sort of protein saturated already. The idea of eating a steak or a chicken at this point is really rather nauseating.
As a control for my protein experiment, I’ve uploaded my first ever shirtless selfie (at age 44 no less - I’m a little hairy and repulsive so view at your own risk). Nothing like exposing your otherwise hidden flaws to make you see with clarity, I suppose. I think I will periodically upload additional selfies as I force myself to this new protein pattern. I will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens to my body.0 -
I would post a video of your squats or a pic of you at your full squat depth to have someone check it out.
Uh..not sure if you're trying to help me or embarrass me, but it's safe to say I will not be posting videos of me squatting. As far as the weight and reps, you can choose to believe me or not, it's up to you. I do indeed use a machine when squatting, but not a Smith machine. My Y calls it a 3D Jones Machine, and I use it because there is otherwise no squat rack. If it has a counterweight, then it's definitely not doing it's job because I'm destroyed at the end of my set. As far as my form, I do the best I can, but there's no doubt I could be doing it better. We can only try.0 -
why the massive aversion?
Videoing for form is extremely useful. For yourself and anyone trying to help- you're numbers are nothing to be ashamed at but even then if you have a fatal flaw at 315- you really think someone wants to mock you instead of helping.
here- goes like this.
June 2014 Squat Max Attemps:
http://youtu.be/dyvBng7M-YI 0 -
Oh. Those squats were done in a machine? Shocking0
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Oh. Those squats were done in a machine? Shocking
Those 3d Jones machines are Smith Machines that also have a track front to back so they are slightly better.
I'm still guaranteeing half squats. I would take video, you don't have to show anyone but I'm guessing half your problem is too much weight and too little ROM. (this has already probably been mentioned a thousand times)0 -
I would post a video of your squats or a pic of you at your full squat depth to have someone check it out.
Uh..not sure if you're trying to help me or embarrass me, but it's safe to say I will not be posting videos of me squatting. As far as the weight and reps, you can choose to believe me or not, it's up to you. I do indeed use a machine when squatting, but not a Smith machine. My Y calls it a 3D Jones Machine, and I use it because there is otherwise no squat rack. If it has a counterweight, then it's definitely not doing it's job because I'm destroyed at the end of my set. As far as my form, I do the best I can, but there's no doubt I could be doing it better. We can only try.
I have access to a Jones in one of my gyms - while it is a good step above the Smith machines because it reduces the risk of back damage during a lift by increasing degrees of freedom, it is not the same as free standing squats. A Jones does not strain the stabilizer muscle the same (no angle across shoulders) and therefore it allows for a higher weight lift, so you'll get grief in the forums from that. For several reasons you should move away from these types of machines, especially at higher weights - primarily failure to work stabilizers will result in imbalances ---> higher risk of injury.
As to the videos, do them, they help immensely on form - don't feel you have to show them here as proof but find a group of people (there are groups here such eat, train, progress) that can provide useful input.
Edit: Full range of motion is what you want to get to.0 -
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