Deceit, Willful Ignorance Mingled with Misinformation

MrTolerable

I read everything the OP posts here cause we it's better than most. Spark debate. I liked reading this. interesting stuff to take in.

Really? This is the original post edited down to the important stuff.

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle smokin - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

-What is amazing though is despite being told repeatedly it would not be possible - it is possible and I did it - my body fat percentage is basically consistent.

He then admitted:

I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true

In 6ish weeks he did not gain 10 pounds of muscle. As I pointed out earlier an average guy gains 2 pounds of muscle in a month. That means 3 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks, plus about 4 pounds of glycogen/water and 3 pounds of fat. He may have been mistaken thinking people were telling him he was going to gain tons of fat, but that was just a few weeks and he did gain fat (which wouldn't change his body fat % or visual composition significantly).

If you want to read some really good stuff follow SideSteel or LolBroScience or Acg67 (this is who I personally follow) or stroutman81.

Woeee - In 6ish weeks I did indeed gain 10 lbs - I had been eating at a caloric deficit for a long time leading up to this while working my body fat percentage down. Constant HIIT and eating clean with supplements got me there - no need to be so harsh? I have tons of pictures over the past two months of this progression anyway.

I also never said I am an authority on this - I learned everything I did on how to do that from a few ppl in particular on MFP. I just was simply saying what worked for me.


The entire GYM life is relatively knew to me brah.

I'm a woman.

All of that last post by me was for the guy saying you are better than most the people here.

I said you gained 10 pounds. I said there's no way it was all lean. Also, you started the thread saying you proved that you could gain weight (lean mass) without gaining fat mass. You then proved that you in fact gained fat mass. Congrats on the gains, but you didn't prove all those people wrong. You misunderstood what they were telling you. Increasing your body fat by a few pounds won't change your looks significantly.

Well it's not all lean? I still feel like I proved something - seriously I was being told by tons of ppl that I would even loose the six pack - when in fact it looks great!! So when I was making the point of gaining fat/fat I mean substantial fat/fat and I think in many MANY cases it is ppl gaining substantial fat- I have been literally working out at least 2-3.5 hours 4-5 days a week while counting calories like a madman and worrying about adjusting my macros on all my resting days - this was no walk in the park.
Correction on my point then, * you can keep your body fat percentage consistent while gaining weight. * - and no even ppl claiming to be fitness experts where saying not possible - and I'm saying totally possible. I feel like you are discrediting months of work over my gaining a super marginal amount of body fat - regardless - I'm about to re-cut which will LOWER my body fat percentage and I'll shave a lil lean muscle - big deal I still had two weeks till my personal deadline - if I would have waited I could have even made the point that I ended up gaining weight while decreasing my body fat percentage.

Gaining weight while keeping your body fat percentage consistent - lmao it is much more involved then you think or even in what I wrote up on my quick walk-through.

I was very discouraged at first because I thought I would be loosing a bunch of hard work on acquiring it. Just wanted to make sure everyone knows it is totally possible.


and apologies Ms.

usmcmp

Well it's not all lean? I still feel like I proved something - seriously I was being told by tons of ppl that I would even loose the six pack - when in fact it looks great!! So when I was making the point of gaining fat/fat I mean literally gaining fat/fat - I have been literally working out at least 2-3.5 hours 4-5 days a week while counting calories like a madman and worrying about adjusting my macros on all my resting days - this was no walk in the park.
Correction on my point then, * you can keep your body fat percentage consistent while gaining weight. * - and no even ppl claiming to be fitness experts where saying not possible - and I'm saying totally possible.

I was very discouraged at first because I thought I would be loosing a bunch of hard work on acquiring it. Just wanted to make sure everyone knows it is totally possible.

It's been 6 weeks. Like I said, in that amount of time you probably gained about 3 pounds of muscle mass, some water and some fat. Did you suddenly look shredded after losing 3 pounds of fat? No. You won't suddenly look fat after gaining 3. Keep the gaining up long term and you could lose your abs. You cannot keep your body fat percentage constant when gaining weight. You JUST proved in the last 6 weeks that you gained fat unless you want to try to prove that you gained 10 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. You gained fat. There is no way around it. It was less than it could have been if you had let loose, but you still gained fat and THAT is what everyone told you.

Living in the gym 4-5 days a week for 2-3.5 hours is ridiculous and unnecessary.

usmcmp

I feel like you are discrediting months of work over my gaining a super marginal amount of body fat - regardless - I'm about to re-cut which will LOWER my body fat percentage and I'll shave a lil lean muscle - big deal I still had two weeks till my personal deadline - if I would have waited I could have even made the point that I ended up gaining weight while decreasing my body fat percentage.

Gaining weight while keeping your body fat percentage consistent - lmao it is much more involved then you think or even in what I wrote up on my quick walk-through.

I'm not discrediting your work. I'm pointing out that you gained fat. A bulk and cut works the same way you did it, just most people do it over a longer period. You gained a few pounds of lean mass on a deadline of a couple of months. Others take a longer time to gain even more lean mass before cutting. That's when the "fat fat" thing comes in. Just because you did it on a smaller scale doesn't make it any different than someone who does it on a larger scale. Either way to lose the fat you gained in the 6 weeks (or someone else did in 6 months) would require cutting.

tigersword

Did you go from not using creatine to using creatine over the course of the weight gain ?


Congrats either way btw.

I'm just curious.

Oh good question! It was my first time using creatine! First time using BCAA's as well - I'm not sure which worked better :P

Creatine leads to massive water weight gains. Just saying. Creatine requires a ton of water to do its thing, like glycogen does. If it's your first time on creatine I'd guess the majority of the gain was water (which, incidentally, is lean mass.)

SideSteel

Did you go from not using creatine to using creatine over the course of the weight gain ?


Congrats either way btw.

I'm just curious.

Oh good question! It was my first time using creatine! First time using BCAA's as well - I'm not sure which worked better :P

Creatine leads to massive water weight gains. Just saying. Creatine requires a ton of water to do its thing, like glycogen does. If it's your first time on creatine I'd guess the majority of the gain was water (which, incidentally, is lean mass.)

^ This was primarily why I was asking, just for the record.

Doesn't mean you didn't also make progress, OP, but it certainly is a variable you would want to consider as part of your weight gain.

Alluminati

I the Jersey Shore

Alatariel75

I'm sorry, this thread made me laugh.

Such a dramatic title:

OP: You said I couldn't gain weight without gaining fat! I put on 10lbs and my BF% is the same!!!

Everyone else: That means you put on fat as well as muscle, or your BF% would be lower.

Op:... oh, yeah...

MrTolerable

I'm sorry, this thread made me laugh.

Such a dramatic title:

OP: You said I couldn't gain weight without gaining fat! I put on 10lbs and my BF% is the same!!!

Everyone else: That means you put on fat as well as muscle, or your BF% would be lower.

Op:... oh, yeah...

lolz yeah that would be an accurate summation.

Gentleman - concerning the creatine I have been drinking somewhere around 10-14 cups of water daily, historically I would be around 5-6 cups daily - so I totally will agree a ton of my weight gain has come from water, however I have upped this water intake over the course of an entire month - being a noob - so forgive my ignorance - does that mean those gains can be lost more rapidly if I cut back on my water intake all of a sudden? Or does that mean the gains aren't - like real?

even this morning though I weigh 159.2 lb

And 10-14 cups sounds like a lot, but when I take th3 C4, the3 creatine, the BCAA's - combined with high intensity circuit training I'm dripping rivers of sweat all over the place.

^and yes I do clean up after myself.

usmcmp

I'm sorry, this thread made me laugh.

Such a dramatic title:

OP: You said I couldn't gain weight without gaining fat! I put on 10lbs and my BF% is the same!!!

Everyone else: That means you put on fat as well as muscle, or your BF% would be lower.

Op:... oh, yeah...

lolz yeah that would be an accurate summation.

Gentleman - concerning the creatine I have been drinking somewhere around 10-14 cups of water daily, historically I would be around 5-6 cups daily - so I totally will agree a ton of my weight gain has come from water, however I have upped this water intake over the course of an entire month - being a noob - so forgive my ignorance - does that mean those gains can be lost more rapidly if I cut back on my water intake all of a sudden? Or does that mean the gains aren't - like real?

even this morning though I weigh 159.2 lb

And 10-14 cups sounds like a lot, but when I take th3 C4, the3 creatine, the BCAA's - combined with high intensity circuit training I'm dripping rivers of sweat all over the place.

^and yes I do clean up after myself.

Creatine binds to water and is stored in the muscles. If you stopped taking creatine your weight would drop (usually around 4-5 pounds for your size). Your muscles would also look less full because that's where the water is stored, so it's not like you would look leaner by dropping the creatine water weight.

Lofteren

If your body fat percentage stayed consistent, you gained some fat. My body fat percentage went down slightly on my last bulk, and I gained some fat. My actual fat mass and lean mass went up, but my fat mass just went up less.

But you can wink at me. :flowerforyou:

I see what you mean, I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true - however they made it sound like it was fat fat- I kept the gains marginal and consistent with my body fay %. The six pack visual was what I was focused on and the fat percentage stayed consistent, so I kept the six pack - like in my most recent pic.

thanks for the helpful observation! It didn't even occur to me.

So... the fat that you gained wasn't "fat fat" but, rather, was some other sort of fat?

It is definitely possible to gain muscle without gaining some fat, especially if you have practically no muscle to begin with. In your OP you stated that your weight was less than 160lbs so it's pretty obvious that you fall into that category. The more muscle you have the harder it will be to build mass. The law of diminishing returns sets in and you must go to further and further extremes in order to continue getting bigger. When that happens, gaining muscle will make gaining fat inevitable.

wheird

Ironic thread title.

But I see that everything has been covered and you have been very gracious about the whole thing, so kudos to you for that and congrats on your continued success.

MrTolerable

If your body fat percentage stayed consistent, you gained some fat. My body fat percentage went down slightly on my last bulk, and I gained some fat. My actual fat mass and lean mass went up, but my fat mass just went up less.

But you can wink at me. :flowerforyou:

I see what you mean, I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true - however they made it sound like it was fat fat- I kept the gains marginal and consistent with my body fay %. The six pack visual was what I was focused on and the fat percentage stayed consistent, so I kept the six pack - like in my most recent pic.

thanks for the helpful observation! It didn't even occur to me.

So... the fat that you gained wasn't "fat fat" but, rather, was some other sort of fat?

It is definitely possible to gain muscle without gaining some fat, especially if you have practically no muscle to begin with. In your OP you stated that your weight was less than 160lbs so it's pretty obvious that you fall into that category. The more muscle you have the harder it will be to build mass. The law of diminishing returns sets in and you must go to further and further extremes in order to continue getting bigger. When that happens, gaining muscle will make gaining fat inevitable.

lol yes "fat fat" - but I was thinking it would be like inches to my waist line or something - I had started at a 28" waist and right now I am barely 29" - I am wearing 30"30"'s right now and they seem a little loose even.

"law of diminishing returns"! Finally got something back out of that ECON degree Your point makes sense - so theoretically this would keep getting much harder and harder and I'd be gaining slightly more fat - even slightly more at a percentage.

and thanks wheird! XD kudos to the lovely Galatea_Stone for bursting my bubble gently - and on the first response :embarassed:

@usmcmp - one more ignorant question - and I'm glad you told me that because I was going to stop taking the creatine and just stick to BCAA and Protein over the next two weeks because I figured I was going back to cutting. So I will continue to take it. HOWEVER - Do you still take creatine on your off days? I actually have only been taking it 5 days a week - so have I been loosing saturation and potential gains from not taking it on rest days as well?

usmcmp

@usmcmp - one more ignorant question - and I'm glad you told me that because I was going to stop taking the creatine and just stick to BCAA and Protein over the next two weeks because I figured I was going back to cutting. So I will continue to take it. HOWEVER - Do you still take creatine on your off days? I actually have only been taking it 5 days a week - so have I been loosing saturation and potential gains from not taking it on rest days as well?

You should be taking it every day.
http://www.esupplements.com/faqs/creatine-faq/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dimaggio2.htm

MrTolerable

@usmcmp - one more ignorant question - and I'm glad you told me that because I was going to stop taking the creatine and just stick to BCAA and Protein over the next two weeks because I figured I was going back to cutting. So I will continue to take it. HOWEVER - Do you still take creatine on your off days? I actually have only been taking it 5 days a week - so have I been loosing saturation and potential gains from not taking it on rest days as well?

You should be taking it every day.
http://www.esupplements.com/faqs/creatine-faq/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dimaggio2.htm

thanks for the shares - good articles, answered some other things I didn't even think to inquire about.

12by311

I just want to encourage you to get out of the smith machine. That's all.

MrTolerable

^I paid a full year for my current gym a week prior to graduating from college because they had a one-year $100 student membership special.

Once my membership is up I'm going to the gym that is basically a rocks throw from my apartment which will be convenient, and my brother whom I share an apartment w/ goes there as well - he is a former big-time lifter... much more experienced, and 70lbs+ then me, despite being my lil brother

Once I get his support and insight I will be going to the gym regularly with him, and will then pick up the free weights - I have absolutely no problem lifting really light weight - the dumbells I use when working on "cross punch" are only 12lbs - and I have zero problem heaving and huffing in front of all the hot cardio ladies using such light weight in front of them...

I'll move off the smith - just trying to play things safe- an injury is one of my biggest fears and my lower back has not been super supportive lately.

mantium999

Just posting to follow. This thread has progressed in a very civilized manner, with quality information and an OP that is actually open minded and willing to take advice. Good thread here.

ironanimal

Just a note to say; your lower back could be tweaking because of the smith - it forces you through a directly vertical axis of movement, where a natural squat movement involes some lateral movement. Avoid squatting in it for a little while if you can and see if any pain/discomfort dissipates.

JoRocka

And this is why it pays to ask if something doesn't make sense when they are explaining.

This isn't the case of the special snowflake- it's the case of not having a clear understanding of the process- and coming out the other side thinking X and it was really Y the whole time- I'm very glad we got this sorted out.

But- OP- great job on the gains. You'll have a great time- AND look fabulous I'm sure.

I would also recommend you get out of the smith- you're not doing you're core any favors- you'll get more core work from barbell front squats than the smith will ever give you.

MrTolerable

Just a note to say; your lower back could be tweaking because of the smith - it forces you through a directly vertical axis of movement, where a natural squat movement involes some lateral movement. Avoid squatting in it for a little while if you can and see if any pain/discomfort dissipates.

I appreciate that input- I am going to be avoiding the Smith all together - I'm going to a Chiropractor today, and usmcmp made the point of it effecting my knees as well, and yesterday when I got off the smith my right knee felt like something was wrong...so both my knee and lower back are bothering me...I have that artic ease cold compress on my right ankle right now and an ICY HOT XL patch on the back and I feel like way better already - but I will listen to your guys input. I did some googling and I didn't realize the negative risks with the smith... I've been using it thinking I was avoiding an injury and I'm opening myself up to getting hurt.

I'm going to just use like super tiny weight and master the form of a proper squat.

JoRocka

use the bar (45 pounds) and if that isn't working for you- you can practice with a broom stick or a PVC pipe.

I can squat a fair bit- and I still do technical work with JUST the bar.

totally normal and fine.

Good luck with the chiro!

Lofteren

Just a note to say; your lower back could be tweaking because of the smith - it forces you through a directly vertical axis of movement, where a natural squat movement involes some lateral movement. Avoid squatting in it for a little while if you can and see if any pain/discomfort dissipates.

I appreciate that input- I am going to be avoiding the Smith all together - I'm going to a Chiropractor today, and usmcmp made the point of it effecting my knees as well, and yesterday when I got off the smith my right knee felt like something was wrong...so both my knee and lower back are bothering me...I have that artic ease cold compress on my right ankle right now and an ICY HOT XL patch on the back and I feel like way better already - but I will listen to your guys input. I did some googling and I didn't realize the negative risks with the smith... I've been using it thinking I was avoiding an injury and I'm opening myself up to getting hurt.

I'm going to just use like super tiny weight and master the form of a proper squat.

Very, very rarely does one witness a person in an internet forum heed good advice. Kudos, brother!

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

Congrats on your gain and increase in strength, however your title is full of drama making it sound like you were purposefully mislead, misinformed and proved people wrong that you can gain only muscle and no fat in a weight gain...

It appears the real title should be: "Guy makes strength and muscle gains with a good proportion ratio of muscle to fat to creatine bound water weight, through lots of hard work."

MrTolerable

use the bar (45 pounds) and if that isn't working for you- you can practice with a broom stick or a PVC pipe.

I can squat a fair bit- and I still do technical work with JUST the bar.

totally normal and fine.

Good luck with the chiro!

thanks for the input :drinker:

and stay scrumptious

No_Finish_Line

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle :smokin: - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) and peaked at (161.2) - my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

am i crazy, or is he claiming to have gained 10 lbs of muscle in a month?

MrTolerable

Congrats on your gain and increase in strength, however your title is full of drama making it sound like you were purposefully mislead, misinformed and proved people wrong that you can gain only muscle and no fat in a weight gain...

It appears the real title should be: "Guy makes strength and muscle gains with a good proportion ratio of muscle to fat to creatine bound water weight, through lots of hard work."

hind sight is 20/20 - I agree.... I must say I got a great deal of motivation thinking I was going to be proving it was possible.. then WHAM first post and I'm like.... "shucks... she is right technically I did gain fat"...

Also I like having witty titles - it attracts good commentators!

MrTolerable

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle :smokin: - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) and peaked at (161.2) - my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

am i crazy, or is he claiming to have gained 10 lbs of muscle in a month?

^they already made the point its not just lean muscle, it is water, glycerin, creatine saturation, some fat -but not fat/fat and ...drum rolll... some lean muscle!

EvgeniZyntx

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle :smokin: - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) and peaked at (161.2) - my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

am i crazy, or is he claiming to have gained 10 lbs of muscle in a month?

No, he's been quite gracious in understanding the input from various sources and recognizing what is going on.

No_Finish_Line

ok then carry on lol

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

Congrats on your gain and increase in strength, however your title is full of drama making it sound like you were purposefully mislead, misinformed and proved people wrong that you can gain only muscle and no fat in a weight gain...

It appears the real title should be: "Guy makes strength and muscle gains with a good proportion ratio of muscle to fat to creatine bound water weight, through lots of hard work."

hind sight is 20/20 - I agree.... I must say I got a great deal of motivation thinking I was going to be proving it was possible.. then WHAM first post and I'm like.... "shucks... she is right technically I did gain fat"...

Also I like having witty titles - it attracts good commentators!

Yes, you did attract comments well with the title, it's kind of like a Fox News story title: some claim made that mis-interprets certain information for dramatic, effect to draw in people Glad you arent selling something too

Looks like you have a great attitude about it, don't take it as a "downer" or anyone having to "prove anyone wrong", it sounds like you probably gained at a very good proportion of muscle to fat to water weight ratio. I'll second or third what others have said so far: just don't expect the same type of gains proportionately constantly because it gets harder, use something else besides the Smith machine whenever possible as its bad for most biomechanics and can hurt you, creatine really packs in the water weight gains (some have claimed 5-10lbs gain just from starting creatine), take the creatine constantly at a recommended dosage if you are going to take it at all, take a break from a lift that is starting to cause you pain before it gets worse (and do an alternate while you figure out why it is causing you pain) and otherwise sounds like you should keep with what you are doing!