Deceit, Willful Ignorance Mingled with Misinformation

usmcmp

I had a goal of being able to squat 2X my body weight on the smith machine and just did it for the first time on the 4th,

Congrats - Why make any goal involve a Smith machine......just curious

I missed that! How cute! It's like me bragging that I can leg press 3x my body weight.

http://www.liftbigeatbig.com/2012/09/squats-barbell-vs-smith-machine.html

sijomial

There is a bit of a tendency for people to talk in absolutes whereas real life is more like a bell curve - the majority have typical results but there are outliers (both ways).

Here's one:
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-build-muscle-while-losing-fat/

As Mehdi says the guy is an exception. Nothing wrong with setting people's expectation that they will have "typical" results of course but it would be nice if people weren't quite so black and white.

A word of caution on your great results though - lean mass increase doesn't necessarily mean it's all extra muscle mass.
And I'll skip the dance music thanks!

stickersticker

I read everything the OP posts here cause we it's better than most. Spark debate. I liked reading this. interesting stuff to take in.

usmcmp

I read everything the OP posts here cause we it's better than most. Spark debate. I liked reading this. interesting stuff to take in.

Really? This is the original post edited down to the important stuff.

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle smokin - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

-What is amazing though is despite being told repeatedly it would not be possible - it is possible and I did it - my body fat percentage is basically consistent.

He then admitted:

I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true

In 6ish weeks he did not gain 10 pounds of muscle. As I pointed out earlier an average guy gains 2 pounds of muscle in a month. That means 3 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks, plus about 4 pounds of glycogen/water and 3 pounds of fat. He may have been mistaken thinking people were telling him he was going to gain tons of fat, but that was just a few weeks and he did gain fat (which wouldn't change his body fat % or visual composition significantly).

If you want to read some really good stuff follow SideSteel or LolBroScience or Acg67 (this is who I personally follow) or stroutman81.

MrTolerable

Did you go from not using creatine to using creatine over the course of the weight gain ?


Congrats either way btw.

I'm just curious.

Oh good question! It was my first time using creatine! First time using BCAA's as well - I'm not sure which worked better :P

MrTolerable

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

Obviously when you gain muscle and fat your bf percentage can stay the same.

I had a goal of being able to squat 2X my body weight on the smith machine and just did it for the first time on the 4th,

Congrats - Why make any goal involve a Smith machine......just curious




TL; DR anything after that.

I guess I am very worried about getting an injury so I tend to stick to hardly any free weights if I'm lifting anything heavy.

And ppl give the smith a great deal of grief but it has helped my core soo much.

usmcmp

I guess I am very worried about getting an injury so I tend to stick to hardly any free weights if I'm lifting anything heavy.

And ppl give the smith a great deal of grief but it has helped my core soo much.

You are more likely to destroy your knees and hurt your back on a Smith Machine than in a squat rack with a barbell. Take your time to set the rack up and the risk of injury (other than to your pride) drops to almost nothing. If form is a worry then video tape your sessions and ask people for feedback.

http://www.liftbigeatbig.com/2012/09/squats-barbell-vs-smith-machine.html

MrTolerable

I read everything the OP posts here cause we it's better than most. Spark debate. I liked reading this. interesting stuff to take in.

Really? This is the original post edited down to the important stuff.

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle smokin - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

-What is amazing though is despite being told repeatedly it would not be possible - it is possible and I did it - my body fat percentage is basically consistent.

He then admitted:

I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true

In 6ish weeks he did not gain 10 pounds of muscle. As I pointed out earlier an average guy gains 2 pounds of muscle in a month. That means 3 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks, plus about 4 pounds of glycogen/water and 3 pounds of fat. He may have been mistaken thinking people were telling him he was going to gain tons of fat, but that was just a few weeks and he did gain fat (which wouldn't change his body fat % or visual composition significantly).

If you want to read some really good stuff follow SideSteel or LolBroScience or Acg67 (this is who I personally follow) or stroutman81.

Woeee - In 6ish weeks I did indeed gain 10 lbs - I had been eating at a caloric deficit for a long time leading up to this while working my body fat percentage down. Constant HIIT and eating clean with supplements got me there - no need to be so harsh? I have tons of pictures over the past two months of this progression anyway.

I also never said I am an authority on this - I learned everything I did on how to do that from a few ppl in particular on MFP. I just was simply saying what worked for me.


The entire GYM life is relatively knew to me brah.

MrTolerable

.

usmcmp

I read everything the OP posts here cause we it's better than most. Spark debate. I liked reading this. interesting stuff to take in.

Really? This is the original post edited down to the important stuff.

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle smokin - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

-What is amazing though is despite being told repeatedly it would not be possible - it is possible and I did it - my body fat percentage is basically consistent.

He then admitted:

I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true

In 6ish weeks he did not gain 10 pounds of muscle. As I pointed out earlier an average guy gains 2 pounds of muscle in a month. That means 3 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks, plus about 4 pounds of glycogen/water and 3 pounds of fat. He may have been mistaken thinking people were telling him he was going to gain tons of fat, but that was just a few weeks and he did gain fat (which wouldn't change his body fat % or visual composition significantly).

If you want to read some really good stuff follow SideSteel or LolBroScience or Acg67 (this is who I personally follow) or stroutman81.

Woeee - In 6ish weeks I did indeed gain 10 lbs - I had been eating at a caloric deficit for a long time leading up to this while working my body fat percentage down. Constant HIIT and eating clean with supplements got me there - no need to be so harsh? I have tons of pictures over the past two months of this progression anyway.

I also never said I am an authority on this - I learned everything I did on how to do that from a few ppl in particular on MFP. I just was simply saying what worked for me.


The entire GYM life is relatively knew to me brah.

I'm a woman.

All of that last post by me was for the guy saying you are better than most the people here.

I said you gained 10 pounds. I said there's no way it was all lean. Also, you started the thread saying you proved that you could gain weight (lean mass) without gaining fat mass. You then proved that you in fact gained fat mass. Congrats on the gains, but you didn't prove all those people wrong. You misunderstood what they were telling you. Increasing your body fat by a few pounds won't change your looks significantly.

MrTolerable

I read everything the OP posts here cause we it's better than most. Spark debate. I liked reading this. interesting stuff to take in.

Really? This is the original post edited down to the important stuff.

I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle smokin - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

-What is amazing though is despite being told repeatedly it would not be possible - it is possible and I did it - my body fat percentage is basically consistent.

He then admitted:

I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true

In 6ish weeks he did not gain 10 pounds of muscle. As I pointed out earlier an average guy gains 2 pounds of muscle in a month. That means 3 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks, plus about 4 pounds of glycogen/water and 3 pounds of fat. He may have been mistaken thinking people were telling him he was going to gain tons of fat, but that was just a few weeks and he did gain fat (which wouldn't change his body fat % or visual composition significantly).

If you want to read some really good stuff follow SideSteel or LolBroScience or Acg67 (this is who I personally follow) or stroutman81.

Woeee - In 6ish weeks I did indeed gain 10 lbs - I had been eating at a caloric deficit for a long time leading up to this while working my body fat percentage down. Constant HIIT and eating clean with supplements got me there - no need to be so harsh? I have tons of pictures over the past two months of this progression anyway.

I also never said I am an authority on this - I learned everything I did on how to do that from a few ppl in particular on MFP. I just was simply saying what worked for me.


The entire GYM life is relatively knew to me brah.

I'm a woman.

All of that last post by me was for the guy saying you are better than most the people here.

I said you gained 10 pounds. I said there's no way it was all lean. Also, you started the thread saying you proved that you could gain weight (lean mass) without gaining fat mass. You then proved that you in fact gained fat mass. Congrats on the gains, but you didn't prove all those people wrong. You misunderstood what they were telling you. Increasing your body fat by a few pounds won't change your looks significantly.

Well it's not all lean? I still feel like I proved something - seriously I was being told by tons of ppl that I would even loose the six pack - when in fact it looks great!! So when I was making the point of gaining fat/fat I mean substantial fat/fat and I think in many MANY cases it is ppl gaining substantial fat- I have been literally working out at least 2-3.5 hours 4-5 days a week while counting calories like a madman and worrying about adjusting my macros on all my resting days - this was no walk in the park.
Correction on my point then, * you can keep your body fat percentage consistent while gaining weight. * - and no even ppl claiming to be fitness experts where saying not possible - and I'm saying totally possible. I feel like you are discrediting months of work over my gaining a super marginal amount of body fat - regardless - I'm about to re-cut which will LOWER my body fat percentage and I'll shave a lil lean muscle - big deal I still had two weeks till my personal deadline - if I would have waited I could have even made the point that I ended up gaining weight while decreasing my body fat percentage.

Gaining weight while keeping your body fat percentage consistent - lmao it is much more involved then you think or even in what I wrote up on my quick walk-through.

I was very discouraged at first because I thought I would be loosing a bunch of hard work on acquiring it. Just wanted to make sure everyone knows it is totally possible.


and apologies Ms.

usmcmp

Well it's not all lean? I still feel like I proved something - seriously I was being told by tons of ppl that I would even loose the six pack - when in fact it looks great!! So when I was making the point of gaining fat/fat I mean literally gaining fat/fat - I have been literally working out at least 2-3.5 hours 4-5 days a week while counting calories like a madman and worrying about adjusting my macros on all my resting days - this was no walk in the park.
Correction on my point then, * you can keep your body fat percentage consistent while gaining weight. * - and no even ppl claiming to be fitness experts where saying not possible - and I'm saying totally possible.

I was very discouraged at first because I thought I would be loosing a bunch of hard work on acquiring it. Just wanted to make sure everyone knows it is totally possible.

It's been 6 weeks. Like I said, in that amount of time you probably gained about 3 pounds of muscle mass, some water and some fat. Did you suddenly look shredded after losing 3 pounds of fat? No. You won't suddenly look fat after gaining 3. Keep the gaining up long term and you could lose your abs. You cannot keep your body fat percentage constant when gaining weight. You JUST proved in the last 6 weeks that you gained fat unless you want to try to prove that you gained 10 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. You gained fat. There is no way around it. It was less than it could have been if you had let loose, but you still gained fat and THAT is what everyone told you.

Living in the gym 4-5 days a week for 2-3.5 hours is ridiculous and unnecessary.

usmcmp

I feel like you are discrediting months of work over my gaining a super marginal amount of body fat - regardless - I'm about to re-cut which will LOWER my body fat percentage and I'll shave a lil lean muscle - big deal I still had two weeks till my personal deadline - if I would have waited I could have even made the point that I ended up gaining weight while decreasing my body fat percentage.

Gaining weight while keeping your body fat percentage consistent - lmao it is much more involved then you think or even in what I wrote up on my quick walk-through.

I'm not discrediting your work. I'm pointing out that you gained fat. A bulk and cut works the same way you did it, just most people do it over a longer period. You gained a few pounds of lean mass on a deadline of a couple of months. Others take a longer time to gain even more lean mass before cutting. That's when the "fat fat" thing comes in. Just because you did it on a smaller scale doesn't make it any different than someone who does it on a larger scale. Either way to lose the fat you gained in the 6 weeks (or someone else did in 6 months) would require cutting.

tigersword

Did you go from not using creatine to using creatine over the course of the weight gain ?


Congrats either way btw.

I'm just curious.

Oh good question! It was my first time using creatine! First time using BCAA's as well - I'm not sure which worked better :P

Creatine leads to massive water weight gains. Just saying. Creatine requires a ton of water to do its thing, like glycogen does. If it's your first time on creatine I'd guess the majority of the gain was water (which, incidentally, is lean mass.)

SideSteel

Did you go from not using creatine to using creatine over the course of the weight gain ?


Congrats either way btw.

I'm just curious.

Oh good question! It was my first time using creatine! First time using BCAA's as well - I'm not sure which worked better :P

Creatine leads to massive water weight gains. Just saying. Creatine requires a ton of water to do its thing, like glycogen does. If it's your first time on creatine I'd guess the majority of the gain was water (which, incidentally, is lean mass.)

^ This was primarily why I was asking, just for the record.

Doesn't mean you didn't also make progress, OP, but it certainly is a variable you would want to consider as part of your weight gain.

Alluminati

I the Jersey Shore

Alatariel75

I'm sorry, this thread made me laugh.

Such a dramatic title:

OP: You said I couldn't gain weight without gaining fat! I put on 10lbs and my BF% is the same!!!

Everyone else: That means you put on fat as well as muscle, or your BF% would be lower.

Op:... oh, yeah...

MrTolerable

I'm sorry, this thread made me laugh.

Such a dramatic title:

OP: You said I couldn't gain weight without gaining fat! I put on 10lbs and my BF% is the same!!!

Everyone else: That means you put on fat as well as muscle, or your BF% would be lower.

Op:... oh, yeah...

lolz yeah that would be an accurate summation.

Gentleman - concerning the creatine I have been drinking somewhere around 10-14 cups of water daily, historically I would be around 5-6 cups daily - so I totally will agree a ton of my weight gain has come from water, however I have upped this water intake over the course of an entire month - being a noob - so forgive my ignorance - does that mean those gains can be lost more rapidly if I cut back on my water intake all of a sudden? Or does that mean the gains aren't - like real?

even this morning though I weigh 159.2 lb

And 10-14 cups sounds like a lot, but when I take th3 C4, the3 creatine, the BCAA's - combined with high intensity circuit training I'm dripping rivers of sweat all over the place.

^and yes I do clean up after myself.

usmcmp

I'm sorry, this thread made me laugh.

Such a dramatic title:

OP: You said I couldn't gain weight without gaining fat! I put on 10lbs and my BF% is the same!!!

Everyone else: That means you put on fat as well as muscle, or your BF% would be lower.

Op:... oh, yeah...

lolz yeah that would be an accurate summation.

Gentleman - concerning the creatine I have been drinking somewhere around 10-14 cups of water daily, historically I would be around 5-6 cups daily - so I totally will agree a ton of my weight gain has come from water, however I have upped this water intake over the course of an entire month - being a noob - so forgive my ignorance - does that mean those gains can be lost more rapidly if I cut back on my water intake all of a sudden? Or does that mean the gains aren't - like real?

even this morning though I weigh 159.2 lb

And 10-14 cups sounds like a lot, but when I take th3 C4, the3 creatine, the BCAA's - combined with high intensity circuit training I'm dripping rivers of sweat all over the place.

^and yes I do clean up after myself.

Creatine binds to water and is stored in the muscles. If you stopped taking creatine your weight would drop (usually around 4-5 pounds for your size). Your muscles would also look less full because that's where the water is stored, so it's not like you would look leaner by dropping the creatine water weight.

Lofteren

If your body fat percentage stayed consistent, you gained some fat. My body fat percentage went down slightly on my last bulk, and I gained some fat. My actual fat mass and lean mass went up, but my fat mass just went up less.

But you can wink at me. :flowerforyou:

I see what you mean, I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true - however they made it sound like it was fat fat- I kept the gains marginal and consistent with my body fay %. The six pack visual was what I was focused on and the fat percentage stayed consistent, so I kept the six pack - like in my most recent pic.

thanks for the helpful observation! It didn't even occur to me.

So... the fat that you gained wasn't "fat fat" but, rather, was some other sort of fat?

It is definitely possible to gain muscle without gaining some fat, especially if you have practically no muscle to begin with. In your OP you stated that your weight was less than 160lbs so it's pretty obvious that you fall into that category. The more muscle you have the harder it will be to build mass. The law of diminishing returns sets in and you must go to further and further extremes in order to continue getting bigger. When that happens, gaining muscle will make gaining fat inevitable.