Deceit, Willful Ignorance Mingled with Misinformation

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  • wheird
    wheird Posts: 7,963 Member
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    Ironic thread title. :tongue:

    But I see that everything has been covered and you have been very gracious about the whole thing, so kudos to you for that and congrats on your continued success. :smile:
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    If your body fat percentage stayed consistent, you gained some fat. My body fat percentage went down slightly on my last bulk, and I gained some fat. My actual fat mass and lean mass went up, but my fat mass just went up less.

    But you can wink at me. :flowerforyou:

    I see what you mean, I did indeed technically gain 'fat'... so I guess there point was true - however they made it sound like it was fat fat- I kept the gains marginal and consistent with my body fay %. The six pack visual was what I was focused on and the fat percentage stayed consistent, so I kept the six pack - like in my most recent pic.

    thanks for the helpful observation! It didn't even occur to me. :wink:

    So... the fat that you gained wasn't "fat fat" but, rather, was some other sort of fat?

    It is definitely possible to gain muscle without gaining some fat, especially if you have practically no muscle to begin with. In your OP you stated that your weight was less than 160lbs so it's pretty obvious that you fall into that category. The more muscle you have the harder it will be to build mass. The law of diminishing returns sets in and you must go to further and further extremes in order to continue getting bigger. When that happens, gaining muscle will make gaining fat inevitable.

    lol yes "fat fat" - but I was thinking it would be like inches to my waist line or something - I had started at a 28" waist and right now I am barely 29" - I am wearing 30"30"'s right now and they seem a little loose even.

    "law of diminishing returns"! Finally got something back out of that ECON degree :D Your point makes sense - so theoretically this would keep getting much harder and harder and I'd be gaining slightly more fat - even slightly more at a percentage.

    and thanks wheird! XD kudos to the lovely Galatea_Stone for bursting my bubble gently - and on the first response :embarassed:

    @usmcmp - one more ignorant question - and I'm glad you told me that because I was going to stop taking the creatine and just stick to BCAA and Protein over the next two weeks because I figured I was going back to cutting. So I will continue to take it. HOWEVER - Do you still take creatine on your off days? I actually have only been taking it 5 days a week - so have I been loosing saturation and potential gains from not taking it on rest days as well?
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
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    @usmcmp - one more ignorant question - and I'm glad you told me that because I was going to stop taking the creatine and just stick to BCAA and Protein over the next two weeks because I figured I was going back to cutting. So I will continue to take it. HOWEVER - Do you still take creatine on your off days? I actually have only been taking it 5 days a week - so have I been loosing saturation and potential gains from not taking it on rest days as well?

    You should be taking it every day.
    http://www.esupplements.com/faqs/creatine-faq/
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dimaggio2.htm
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    @usmcmp - one more ignorant question - and I'm glad you told me that because I was going to stop taking the creatine and just stick to BCAA and Protein over the next two weeks because I figured I was going back to cutting. So I will continue to take it. HOWEVER - Do you still take creatine on your off days? I actually have only been taking it 5 days a week - so have I been loosing saturation and potential gains from not taking it on rest days as well?

    You should be taking it every day.
    http://www.esupplements.com/faqs/creatine-faq/
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dimaggio2.htm

    thanks for the shares - good articles, answered some other things I didn't even think to inquire about.
  • 12by311
    12by311 Posts: 1,716 Member
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    I just want to encourage you to get out of the smith machine. That's all.
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    ^I paid a full year for my current gym a week prior to graduating from college because they had a one-year $100 student membership special.

    Once my membership is up I'm going to the gym that is basically a rocks throw from my apartment which will be convenient, and my brother whom I share an apartment w/ goes there as well - he is a former big-time lifter... much more experienced, and 70lbs+ then me, despite being my lil brother :wink:

    Once I get his support and insight I will be going to the gym regularly with him, and will then pick up the free weights - I have absolutely no problem lifting really light weight - the dumbells I use when working on "cross punch" are only 12lbs - and I have zero problem heaving and huffing in front of all the hot cardio ladies using such light weight in front of them... :wink:

    I'll move off the smith - just trying to play things safe- an injury is one of my biggest fears and my lower back has not been super supportive lately.
  • mantium999
    mantium999 Posts: 1,490 Member
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    Just posting to follow. This thread has progressed in a very civilized manner, with quality information and an OP that is actually open minded and willing to take advice. Good thread here.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Just a note to say; your lower back could be tweaking because of the smith - it forces you through a directly vertical axis of movement, where a natural squat movement involes some lateral movement. Avoid squatting in it for a little while if you can and see if any pain/discomfort dissipates.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    And this is why it pays to ask if something doesn't make sense when they are explaining.

    This isn't the case of the special snowflake- it's the case of not having a clear understanding of the process- and coming out the other side thinking X and it was really Y the whole time- I'm very glad we got this sorted out.

    But- OP- great job on the gains. You'll have a great time- AND look fabulous I'm sure.

    I would also recommend you get out of the smith- you're not doing you're core any favors- you'll get more core work from barbell front squats than the smith will ever give you.
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    Just a note to say; your lower back could be tweaking because of the smith - it forces you through a directly vertical axis of movement, where a natural squat movement involes some lateral movement. Avoid squatting in it for a little while if you can and see if any pain/discomfort dissipates.

    I appreciate that input- I am going to be avoiding the Smith all together - I'm going to a Chiropractor today, and usmcmp made the point of it effecting my knees as well, and yesterday when I got off the smith my right knee felt like something was wrong...so both my knee and lower back are bothering me...I have that artic ease cold compress on my right ankle right now and an ICY HOT XL patch on the back and I feel like way better already - but I will listen to your guys input. I did some googling and I didn't realize the negative risks with the smith... I've been using it thinking I was avoiding an injury and I'm opening myself up to getting hurt.

    I'm going to just use like super tiny weight and master the form of a proper squat.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    use the bar (45 pounds) and if that isn't working for you- you can practice with a broom stick or a PVC pipe.

    I can squat a fair bit- and I still do technical work with JUST the bar.

    totally normal and fine.

    Good luck with the chiro!
  • Lofteren
    Lofteren Posts: 960 Member
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    Just a note to say; your lower back could be tweaking because of the smith - it forces you through a directly vertical axis of movement, where a natural squat movement involes some lateral movement. Avoid squatting in it for a little while if you can and see if any pain/discomfort dissipates.

    I appreciate that input- I am going to be avoiding the Smith all together - I'm going to a Chiropractor today, and usmcmp made the point of it effecting my knees as well, and yesterday when I got off the smith my right knee felt like something was wrong...so both my knee and lower back are bothering me...I have that artic ease cold compress on my right ankle right now and an ICY HOT XL patch on the back and I feel like way better already - but I will listen to your guys input. I did some googling and I didn't realize the negative risks with the smith... I've been using it thinking I was avoiding an injury and I'm opening myself up to getting hurt.

    I'm going to just use like super tiny weight and master the form of a proper squat.

    Very, very rarely does one witness a person in an internet forum heed good advice. Kudos, brother!
  • SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish
    SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish Posts: 831 Member
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    Congrats on your gain and increase in strength, however your title is full of drama making it sound like you were purposefully mislead, misinformed and proved people wrong that you can gain only muscle and no fat in a weight gain...

    It appears the real title should be: "Guy makes strength and muscle gains with a good proportion ratio of muscle to fat to creatine bound water weight, through lots of hard work."
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    use the bar (45 pounds) and if that isn't working for you- you can practice with a broom stick or a PVC pipe.

    I can squat a fair bit- and I still do technical work with JUST the bar.

    totally normal and fine.

    Good luck with the chiro!

    thanks for the input :drinker:

    and stay scrumptious :wink:
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
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    I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

    I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle :smokin: - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) and peaked at (161.2) - my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

    am i crazy, or is he claiming to have gained 10 lbs of muscle in a month?
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    Congrats on your gain and increase in strength, however your title is full of drama making it sound like you were purposefully mislead, misinformed and proved people wrong that you can gain only muscle and no fat in a weight gain...

    It appears the real title should be: "Guy makes strength and muscle gains with a good proportion ratio of muscle to fat to creatine bound water weight, through lots of hard work."

    hind sight is 20/20 - I agree.... I must say I got a great deal of motivation thinking I was going to be proving it was possible.. then WHAM first post and I'm like.... "shucks... she is right technically I did gain fat"...

    Also I like having witty titles - it attracts good commentators!
  • MrTolerable
    MrTolerable Posts: 1,593 Member
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    I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

    I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle :smokin: - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) and peaked at (161.2) - my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

    am i crazy, or is he claiming to have gained 10 lbs of muscle in a month?

    ^they already made the point its not just lean muscle, it is water, glycerin, creatine saturation, some fat -but not fat/fat :wink: and ...drum rolll... some lean muscle!
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    I have repeatedly over two months inquired about if it would be possible to gain weight while keeping my body fat percentage consistent or ideally even lowering it. - I was told over and over and over again by almost everyone that the answer is NO - some fat must be acquired when gaining weight.

    I am now two weeks still away from my big weekend deadline in Sea Isle :smokin: - I have tracked my weight daily and in the past month I have been at my lowest weight (149.8) and peaked at (161.2) - my current weight is 159.4 lbs.

    am i crazy, or is he claiming to have gained 10 lbs of muscle in a month?

    No, he's been quite gracious in understanding the input from various sources and recognizing what is going on.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
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    ok then carry on lol
  • SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish
    SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish Posts: 831 Member
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    Congrats on your gain and increase in strength, however your title is full of drama making it sound like you were purposefully mislead, misinformed and proved people wrong that you can gain only muscle and no fat in a weight gain...

    It appears the real title should be: "Guy makes strength and muscle gains with a good proportion ratio of muscle to fat to creatine bound water weight, through lots of hard work."

    hind sight is 20/20 - I agree.... I must say I got a great deal of motivation thinking I was going to be proving it was possible.. then WHAM first post and I'm like.... "shucks... she is right technically I did gain fat"...

    Also I like having witty titles - it attracts good commentators!

    Yes, you did attract comments well with the title, it's kind of like a Fox News story title: some claim made that mis-interprets certain information for dramatic, effect to draw in people ;) Glad you arent selling something too :)

    Looks like you have a great attitude about it, don't take it as a "downer" or anyone having to "prove anyone wrong", it sounds like you probably gained at a very good proportion of muscle to fat to water weight ratio. I'll second or third what others have said so far: just don't expect the same type of gains proportionately constantly because it gets harder, use something else besides the Smith machine whenever possible as its bad for most biomechanics and can hurt you, creatine really packs in the water weight gains (some have claimed 5-10lbs gain just from starting creatine), take the creatine constantly at a recommended dosage if you are going to take it at all, take a break from a lift that is starting to cause you pain before it gets worse (and do an alternate while you figure out why it is causing you pain) and otherwise sounds like you should keep with what you are doing!

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