Is being fat a disability??
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Yes, if a person arrives at one or more of those conditions, they do have a disability. However, if the reason they got lung cancer was from smoking; lost their legs playing chicken with a train, do we, as a society, owe them the same level of empathy and or assistance that we have for those who are disabled through no fault of their own?
Yes.
That's not even a question. Morally and legally.
We'll have to agree to disagree there. As a former smoker, should I develop lung cancer in the future because of it, I do not want, nor do I think I deserve empathy and assistance from society. I was stupid for smoking in the first place. Stupid shouldn't be rewarded.
So, I guess you will be paying out of pocket for all medical expenses, not using insurance, medicaid or medicare, and if it is bad enough that you can no longer work, instead of taking disability, you plan on living on the streets because it was all your fault for smoking? I doubt it.
Why would I not use my insurance? I paid for it. In fact, I paid more for it because I was a smoker. Don't have medicaid or medicare (even though I help pay for those), so I can't use it. If it was to the point that I couldn't work, that would also mean I'm not long for this world, so living on the streets or not wouldn't be an issue. I believe in being responsible for my actions and don't believe in burdening society and/or my family for my poor choices. Your doubting my conviction is irrelevant.
It isn't doubting your conviction, though I would add that I find it to be a bit selfish.
But you did doubt my conviction on what I would do should the situation arise. That's your opinion, based on zero knowledge of me, which is why I said it is irrelevant (I should have added, "to me"). As for selfish, what is selfish about not wanting to burden my family with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills? What is selfish about not wanting my kids around a hospital bed while their father is coughing up blood and dying? It's not that I'm ready to punch my ticket; it's that I want my family to be able to get on with their lives as soon as possible, with as little burden and/or trauma when that time comes. If that's selfish, then I guess I'm a selfish *kitten*.
Suicide is pretty traumatic on a family.
And so is watching a loved one die cold and alone out on the street (probably still coughing up that blood). I know plenty of people who have made decisions that could end up being much more of a health impact than smoking, and I'd still help them in any way I could, because I love them and that is what we do.0 -
Yes, if a person arrives at one or more of those conditions, they do have a disability. However, if the reason they got lung cancer was from smoking; lost their legs playing chicken with a train, do we, as a society, owe them the same level of empathy and or assistance that we have for those who are disabled through no fault of their own?
Yes.
That's not even a question. Morally and legally.
We'll have to agree to disagree there. As a former smoker, should I develop lung cancer in the future because of it, I do not want, nor do I think I deserve empathy and assistance from society. I was stupid for smoking in the first place. Stupid shouldn't be rewarded.
So, I guess you will be paying out of pocket for all medical expenses, not using insurance, medicaid or medicare, and if it is bad enough that you can no longer work, instead of taking disability, you plan on living on the streets because it was all your fault for smoking? I doubt it.
Why would I not use my insurance? I paid for it. In fact, I paid more for it because I was a smoker. Don't have medicaid or medicare (even though I help pay for those), so I can't use it. If it was to the point that I couldn't work, that would also mean I'm not long for this world, so living on the streets or not wouldn't be an issue. I believe in being responsible for my actions and don't believe in burdening society and/or my family for my poor choices. Your doubting my conviction is irrelevant.
It isn't doubting your conviction, though I would add that I find it to be a bit selfish.
But you did doubt my conviction on what I would do should the situation arise. That's your opinion, based on zero knowledge of me, which is why I said it is irrelevant (I should have added, "to me"). As for selfish, what is selfish about not wanting to burden my family with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills? What is selfish about not wanting my kids around a hospital bed while their father is coughing up blood and dying? It's not that I'm ready to punch my ticket; it's that I want my family to be able to get on with their lives as soon as possible, with as little burden and/or trauma when that time comes. If that's selfish, then I guess I'm a selfish *kitten*.
Suicide is pretty traumatic on a family.
Yep, this!
My ex's uncle got cancer. Who knows why? The guy was a health freak. But he chose not to treat it because he was vegan and the treatments used animal products or animal testing or something like that. Anyway, he died, and his whole family was devastated. They begged him to accept treatment. He just simply refused based on his principles. He didn't care at all about the feelings of his children.0 -
I think it depends... I am "fat" even technically obese, but I can still do what the majority of other people can do... well within reason... I don't have health issues (yet)... I don't have bad joints (yet)... but if I don't take care of this weight while I still don't have health issues I will and that's when the disability comes in.0
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I should have said the depression thing differently,BUT I do stand behind my words about this person. I have sat next to her for 14 yrs and I know that she had to go through counseling and was not clinically depressed(this came from her). For HER, it is an excuse...
She could be telling you a story because she's afraid you'll mock her if she tells you she sees a psychiatrist and/or is on medication for it. She might be getting a vibe that you think she's weak and doesn't need to give you any more ammo to use against her.
Hell, based on the OP's follow up comments, I'd be afraid to tell her anything personal, I know I'd get mocked asap.
Not just mocked. Called out in a staff meeting, for God's sake.
Yeah, am I the only one that physically CRINGED?0 -
No it's a choice,unless it's for medical reasons0
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Omg really. Being fat isnt a disability but dont make fun of it. It is a condition we allow to happen. I have diabetes but thats not why im fat. Eating too much food and junk and lack of exercise. Its the same for everyone just some have obstacles and special dietary needs but it is all up to each person. Ive lost 50 lbs now. I just now am learning this. Youre right i agree with you0
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dis·a·bil·i·ty
/ˌdisəˈbilitē/
noun
noun: disability; plural noun: disabilities
a physical or mental condition that limits a person's movements, senses, or activities.
Being FAT does not limit movemt or activities. However, being OBESE or MORBIDLY OBESE does.
Therefore, depending on how you use the term "fat", it can be considred a disability. It doesn't matter if you can do something about it or not, in that state, it is a disability. The only difference is you can easily fix this disability, compared to other disabilities.
ETA: I will argue that being obese is indeed a disability. Have you ever seen an obese person walk, clap their hands, or tie ther shoelaces? It's nto exatly easy for them. You would go so far to say that their movement is limited, not unlike a disability.
Being fat is not a disability. That being said, most people are only considered fat by society when, in fact, they are actually obese.
By that definition, a sprained ankle or even a broken bone would appear to be a disability. That's a really simplified definition.
The ADA goes to a little more trouble.
http://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/disabilities/physical/definition.htmAmericans with Disabilities Act (ADA): Definition of Disability
How Does ADA Define Disability?
The Americans with Disabilities Act ( ADA) has a three-part definition of disability. Under ADA, an individual with a disability is a person who: (1) has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities; OR (2) has a record of such an impairment; OR (3) is regarded as having such an impairment.
A physical impairment is defined by ADA as "any physiological disorder or condition, cosmetic disfigurement, or anatomical loss affecting one or more of the following body systems: neurological, musculoskeletal, special sense organs, respiratory (including speech organs), cardiovascular, reproductive, digestive, genitourinary, hemic and lymphatic, skin, and endocrine."
Neither ADA nor the regulations that implement it list all the diseases or conditions that are covered, because it would be impossible to provide a comprehensive list, given the variety of possible impairments.
Last Revised: April 22, 2014
By that definition Obesity can become a disability. I personally believe that it's self inflicted and reversible. And that's speaking from personal experience just like many of us here are.
So can it be a disability? Yes. Is it always a disability? No. You can be functionally obese and that's not a disability in my opinion. Further you can chose obesity and such you can chose to be disabled. I don't understand why someone would chose this but I see so many people who do.0 -
I know somebody who ended up with lung cancer and never smoked a cigarette in her life.
How would you know that your lung cancer was a direct result of your smoking?
Anecdotal evidence aside.....
1) No form of cancer runs in my family
2) I smoked for over 20 years
While I don't know the in's and out's of being able to pinpoint the exact cause of a cancer, what would be more likely:
1) I got lung cancer out of the blue?
2) I got lung cancer because of the carcinogens I was putting into my body for all that time?0 -
This looks like fun0
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Unless it is because of a medical condition being fat is a choice, nothing more - nothing less.0
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My daughter has TBI and left side paralysis, she was on disability when she was younger, the only reason she was on disablity was because that was the only way she could get medicaid. Then on a annual assessment they decided that she wasn't disabled anymore because we made too much money. The lady at the SS office told me that I needed to quit my job if I wanted my daughter to remain on disablitly. I have a family of 8, I pay a little over $900 a month in insurance. We pay out of pocket $15,000 a year on her medical needs. I'd love to meet the people that are milking the system in my state, I'd beat their *kitten* and have them teach me how to do it, lol.
Its not my daughter lol. I think you are the people that blows my mind about....so because of the money you make...she isnt disabled anymore??? I know money can do a lot but how does it cure paralysis?? Brylie has not existing issues from her "condition" so why should be get a check?? Maybe if they dr would have said, yes she is going to have to have X amount of surgeries over the next X years, it would be worth it for the medicaid, but that wasnt the case. I have a friend whose son has a serious heart conditon and cant work and they cant get disability, they keep going back to the jobs he had BEFORE the heart condition that would possibly kill him now. It amazes me....0 -
I should have said the depression thing differently,BUT I do stand behind my words about this person. I have sat next to her for 14 yrs and I know that she had to go through counseling and was not clinically depressed(this came from her). For HER, it is an excuse...
She could be telling you a story because she's afraid you'll mock her if she tells you she sees a psychiatrist and/or is on medication for it. She might be getting a vibe that you think she's weak and doesn't need to give you any more ammo to use against her.
Hell, based on the OP's follow up comments, I'd be afraid to tell her anything personal, I know I'd get mocked asap.
Seriously.
I'm not super fat, but if I were to need to use a scooter at some point (post surgery or something unrelated to weight), people like OP would make me feel awful!
There's apparently nothing worse than being caught "scootering while fat".0 -
Humanity is a personal thing. It's about personal choices, not the choices of another. If you get lung cancer and someone offers you aid, it's because they are a decent human being, and not because you deserved to be treated with decency.
Yes, but my point is, in my view, there are others who do deserve that aid and empathy. There's not a surplus of assistance in the world today, and it should go to the woman who got breast cancer for no other reason than she's a woman and has boobs, before it goes to someone like me who made a conscience choice to do something stupid.
So what exactly are you saying is that even though there are people who don't judge you for your personal choice that they should. I'm sorry, but that's not how human decency works. Give without judgement, care without judgment, and love without judgment.
Where does that put respecting one's wishes? If assistance was an infinite resource, I'd probably concede this point, but there's only so much to go around. Again, in my view, people who need this assistance due to no fault of their own deserve this assistance more than someone like me who would be in the position due to a conscience choice.
What about me? I started smoking when I was 15. I stopped when I was 24.
I'm 42 now, and haven't smoked in almost two decades. My risk of lung cancer is close to what it would have been if I had never made the juvenile decision to pick up a cigarette. I don't pay more for my insurance because I never had insurance when I was smoking.
If I got lung cancer, should I be treated or not treated?
Remember, I'm the main financial support for two preschoolers, and cancer treatment is well beyond the means of the average person.
Judging another person's choices is so complex that it's better just to look at the resources and the benefits and make your decisions without going into the history.0 -
Having a rather serious, sometimes debilitating medical condition that no one can see, I'm just going to say I wish people would stop making assumptions about people in general, and specifically about their abilities.
+1
...and i'll add that for 10 years I disabled myself by not exercising. my chronic pain got so bad in that time that I tried to kill myself. only after I hit rock bottom in this way did I start doing what everyone (drs espesh) told me to do: exercise, stupid! it's the most effective tx for fibromyalgia! (also the most effective tx for something else IYKWIM) now that I am exercising regularly, my condition is only sometimes debilitating. for this reason I put myself squarely in the same camp with others who could vastly improve their health/quality of life if they only exercised IYKWIM.
so, how much shame should I feel for having formerly disabled myself?? and that's not sarcasm, by the way. I really feel like some degree of shame is appropriate in my case. I had a great deal of control over my condition, and I completely abdicated it for an entire decade.
I don't think you should feel shame at all. It's hard to pull yourself together when you're in almost constant pain (pain is a big part of my condition, too - only the only fix for it is brain surgery). I'm sorry you've had such a rough time of things.0 -
But you did doubt my conviction on what I would do should the situation arise. That's your opinion, based on zero knowledge of me, which is why I said it is irrelevant (I should have added, "to me"). As for selfish, what is selfish about not wanting to burden my family with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills? What is selfish about not wanting my kids around a hospital bed while their father is coughing up blood and dying? It's not that I'm ready to punch my ticket; it's that I want my family to be able to get on with their lives as soon as possible, with as little burden and/or trauma when that time comes. If that's selfish, then I guess I'm a selfish *kitten*.
Suicide is pretty traumatic on a family.
Speaking as someone who's father put a bullet into his head when I was still in my early 20's, I find it asinine that someone would compare dying from cancer to suicide in this manner.0 -
I know somebody who ended up with lung cancer and never smoked a cigarette in her life.
How would you know that your lung cancer was a direct result of your smoking?
Anecdotal evidence aside.....
1) No form of cancer runs in my family
2) I smoked for over 20 years
While I don't know the in's and out's of being able to pinpoint the exact cause of a cancer, what would be more likely:
1) I got lung cancer out of the blue?
2) I got lung cancer because of the carcinogens I was putting into my body for all that time?
Looking at populations, people who smoke are more likely to get lung cancer than people who don't smoke. Looking at you, I don't know whether it was the cigarettes or the asbestos in your grade school.0 -
But you did doubt my conviction on what I would do should the situation arise. That's your opinion, based on zero knowledge of me, which is why I said it is irrelevant (I should have added, "to me"). As for selfish, what is selfish about not wanting to burden my family with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills? What is selfish about not wanting my kids around a hospital bed while their father is coughing up blood and dying? It's not that I'm ready to punch my ticket; it's that I want my family to be able to get on with their lives as soon as possible, with as little burden and/or trauma when that time comes. If that's selfish, then I guess I'm a selfish *kitten*.
Suicide is pretty traumatic on a family.
Speaking as someone who's father put a bullet into his head when I was still in my early 20's, I find it asinine that someone would compare dying from cancer to suicide in this manner.
My mom's been suicidal since I was 17. At least with cancer, I wouldn't feel as if I could have done or said something differently to prevent it.0 -
You are so silly. Of course we still do. My neighbor's job is to schedule hearing tests for preschoolers. Human society isn't at 100% and it will never be, but we help each out in innumerable ways.
Some people have their act together. As a societal whole though, we don't. Otherwise we'd vote in different people, and there wouldn't be a group of the country squawking like gulls over refugee children.
Our society isn't 100%, we're not even 60%, but there is potential to fix that.0 -
But you did doubt my conviction on what I would do should the situation arise. That's your opinion, based on zero knowledge of me, which is why I said it is irrelevant (I should have added, "to me"). As for selfish, what is selfish about not wanting to burden my family with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills? What is selfish about not wanting my kids around a hospital bed while their father is coughing up blood and dying? It's not that I'm ready to punch my ticket; it's that I want my family to be able to get on with their lives as soon as possible, with as little burden and/or trauma when that time comes. If that's selfish, then I guess I'm a selfish *kitten*.
Suicide is pretty traumatic on a family.
Speaking as someone who's father put a bullet into his head when I was still in my early 20's, I find it asinine that someone would compare dying from cancer to suicide in this manner.
Yep. People are a tad less judgy about cancer. They might even sympathize.0 -
I know somebody who ended up with lung cancer and never smoked a cigarette in her life.
How would you know that your lung cancer was a direct result of your smoking?
Anecdotal evidence aside.....
1) No form of cancer runs in my family
2) I smoked for over 20 years
While I don't know the in's and out's of being able to pinpoint the exact cause of a cancer, what would be more likely:
1) I got lung cancer out of the blue?
2) I got lung cancer because of the carcinogens I was putting into my body for all that time?
Looking at populations, people who smoke are more likely to get lung cancer than people who don't smoke. Looking at you, I don't know whether it was the cigarettes or the asbestos in your grade school.
I'm going to get it from sniffing all those smelly markers in middle school.
(I quit smoking about a month and a half ago. Pack a day for ~7 years. I was up to 1.5 pack/day when I quit.)0
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