Body Pump vs Lifting. Help!
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I'm not sure what this shows. It doesn't seem to mention BodyPump. Les Mills has a lot of different class types.
They're all basically similar...
OP said:
which implies there is some interest in strength training.My question is, will Body Pump be enough to sustain/ tick box the 'strength training/conditioning' element?
I reviewed the abstract you wrote and here's my thoughts. It is definitely positive, but based on my training experience and education, those women were previously untrained. A 33% improvement in their Squat 1RM in just 12-weeks is not possible for somebody that is active is very unlikely at least for 90% of the population.
I didn't have the copyright symbol before, so I was able to find others...
PHYSIOLOGICAL AND NEUROMUSCULAR PROFILE DURING A BODYPUMP SESSION: ACUTE RESPONSES DURING A HIGH-RESISTANCE TRAINING SESSION.
The article presents the results of a study which investigated the effect of a high-repetition physical fitness training session with light weights. An overview of the type of workout being studied, which typically involves a class full of participants and a program of music, is presented. It was found that this type of exercise was able to improve strength in the legs of previously untrained women.
Physiological and neuromuscular profile during a bodypump session: acute responses during a high-resistance training session.
The main purposes of this study were 1) to describe and to compare blood lactate ([La]), heart rate (HR), and electromyographic (EMG) parameters during high-repetition training sessions (HRTSs), 2) to analyze the influence of physical fitness levels in these parameters, and, 3) to analyze the relationship between metabolic ([La]) and neuromuscular (EMG) responses during the HRTS. Fifteen healthy untrained women (21.7 +/- 2.1 years) performed an HRTS called Bodypump for 1 hour, which incorporated the use of variable free weights and high repetitions in a group setting. This session involved 10 music selections (M1-M10) containing resistive exercises for different muscle groups. After music selections 2 (M2), 4 (M4), 6 (M6), 7 (M7), and 9 (M9), [La], HR, and EMG (vastus medialis [VM], vastus lateralis [VL], iliocostalis lumborum [IC], and longissimus thoracis <) were determined. The [La] (M2, 4.00 +/- 1.45 mM; M7, 5.02 +/- 1.73 mM) and HR (M2, 153.64 +/- 18.89 bpm; M7, 16.14 +/- 20.14 bpm) obtained at M2 and M7 were similar but were significantly higher than the other moments of the session. However, EMG (root mean square [RMS]) at M2 (VL, VM, and LT) was lower than at M7. There was no significant correlation of strength and aerobic physical fitness with [La], RMS. In the same way, there was no significant correlation of [La] with RMS at M2 and M7. On the basis of our data, we can conclude that metabolic, cardiovascular, and EMG variables present different and independent behavior during an HRTS. Accordingly, for neuromuscular conditions during HRTS, it seems to be enough to induce improvement in the muscular strength of inferior limbs in untrained subjects.0 -
I gave my opinion ALONG with ACSM information to help back it up. Yes the same ACSM you used to support your evidence (or lack thereof).
And a scholarly article that did a study on this exact question concluded BP is not cardio. So the opinion of a personal trainer vs. a scholarly article.
From many classes I've seen and done, the majority of participants AREN'T increasing difficulty by adding poundages. Lots of the same people who go, use the same weight resistance time after time for years.Yes it does qualify as strength and yes it does increase your strength if it has incremental difficulty. Don't listen to those who say it doesn't. If your goals don't include being a powerlifter or building large muscle mass, it's a perfectly good strength exercise as long as it fits your goals.
There are many types of strength. Actually endurance strength and speed strength are two of the best things you can do for your body if your goal is general performance in any sport save power lifting. Strength training =/= weight training. Weight training is just a narrowed down category of strength in general.
It's just like saying staying in the 8-12 rip range is not real strength because the main goal is to build muscle, not strength, and that only the 1-3 rip range is "real strength". Those who do 8-12 and see the plates piling will beg to differ.
And I'm sure I've seen more classes first hand, then many people who do BP maybe 2-3 times a week with the same people.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
How can anybody argue with this guy? He's been training for years, TEACHES BP, and he's telling you what it's all about. LOL!!
And the assumption that the OP would not increase her poundage.
And that she didn't mean 'resistance' and that that is a wholly different thing in the general rec from 'strength', even though the sources I posted use them interchangeably.
Being well versed in instruction and FIRST HAND observation of how classes are run (vs a scholarly article that may have observed 1-2 classes) I think my opinion is quite accurate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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It's just the point. Anything 'girlie' or not low rep/high weight is demonized here. BP is not cardio and it's a great option for someone with the OP's goals.
Low rep is terrific. It's a great choice. It's not the only thing with any value.
I'm not demonizing BP by any means, I just get tired of seeing false claims pushed around here. BP has some strength benefit but it's not strength training it is aerobic. True strength training is completely different. If the OP likes it, then she should do it, nothing wrong with that. But let's call it what it is...Being well versed in instruction and FIRST HAND observation of how classes are run (vs a scholarly article that may have observed 1-2 classes) I think my opinion is quite accurate.
Agree, especially when the scholarly article is taken out of context or the test population is not fully understood.0 -
It's just the point. Anything 'girlie' or not low rep/high weight is demonized here. BP is not cardio and it's a great option for someone with the OP's goals.
Low rep is terrific. It's a great choice. It's not the only thing with any value.
no one is demonizing anything.
It's a matter of fact point- body pump isn't strength training- it's more cardio.
It's fine for some people- it's fine for certain goals- but you need to understand what you're getting and 9/10 people think they really truly are doing strength training. They aren't.
You can body pump till the day you die- I don't care- honestly- but don't come telling me you're doing this crazy strength training- because you aren't.
I do zumba- I don't think I could bring myself to do body pump- but I mean if I did- I'd log it under cardio. I have nothing against it- I don't care... you're reading to much emotion into it- when we are just pointing out what it ISN"T. and what it IS.0 -
you're reading to much emotion into it- when we are just pointing out what it ISN"T. and what it IS.
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I'm not reading emotion into anything. I rarely do BP and I know no one here cares what I do and I wouldn't expect them to, it's not the point. The OP asked because she didn't know, not because she said "it's crazy strength training". I didn't call it that, either. Will it tick off her goals? I believe so.
"Being well versed in instruction and FIRST HAND observation of how classes are run (vs a scholarly article that may have observed 1-2 classes) I think my opinion is quite accurate."
Nothing personal but every group fitness instructor is well-versed in instruction and everyone who's even attended a BP class has observation of how they run. Does that make all their opinions accurate?
I agree, it's not that complex. It's lifting barbells. It's not going to get *you* to your goals. Is it not going to get anyone to their own goals, which in this case weren't even about strength?0 -
I'm not reading emotion into anything. I rarely do BP and I know no one here cares what I do and I wouldn't expect them to, it's not the point. The OP asked because she didn't know, not because she said "it's crazy strength training". I didn't call it that, either. Will it tick off her goals? I believe so.
"Being well versed in instruction and FIRST HAND observation of how classes are run (vs a scholarly article that may have observed 1-2 classes) I think my opinion is quite accurate."
Nothing personal but every group fitness instructor is well-versed in instruction and everyone who's even attended a BP class has observation of how they run. Does that make all their opinions accurate?
I agree, it's not that complex. It's lifting barbells. It's not going to get *you* to your goals. Is it not going to get anyone to their own goals, which in this case weren't even about strength?
it's not lifting barbells.0 -
All the ones I've been to, that's what we did for probably 75% of the class-- lift barbells. :huh:0
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which in this case weren't even about strength?
Umm... this is what she wrote..My question is, will Body Pump be enough to sustain/ tick box the strength training/conditioning' element?
Niner has 16 years of experience... his opinion is worth something.0 -
All the ones I've been to, that's what we did for probably 75% of the class-- lift barbells. :huh:
those things that are 8 feet long and weigh 45 pounds?
really? you used those in body pump?0 -
I was referring to that part.I'm more focused on becoming leaner and more toned rather than anything else (ie getting stronger)
I'm not discounting Niner's opinion. I agree with 99% of what he says. But it's an opinion, not the final word. :flowerforyou:0 -
It has to be an Olympic bar to be strength training? Come on, you guys. You're playing with me now.All the ones I've been to, that's what we did for probably 75% of the class-- lift barbells. :huh:
those things that are 8 feet long and weigh 45 pounds?
really? you used those in body pump?
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I was referring to that part.I'm more focused on becoming leaner and more toned rather than anything else (ie getting stronger)
I'm not discounting Niner's opinion. I agree with 99% of what he says. But it's an opinion, not the final word. :flowerforyou:
Well then maybe she's not clear on her actual goals or has multiple.
It might be opinion, but the opinion of somebody with an education and 16 years experience in training that also includes instructing the class in question should weigh heavier and be considered.It has to be an Olympic bar to be strength training? Come on, you guys. You're playing with me now.
No, not at all. Barbell training is just one of the more effects tools in a good strength training plan.0 -
Body Pump is hardly cardio .... if you think it is, you are doing it wrong.
Cardio is spin class ... there is a huge difference between the two.
I have seen good changes from Body Pump.0 -
It has to be an Olympic bar to be strength training? Come on, you guys. You're playing with me now.All the ones I've been to, that's what we did for probably 75% of the class-- lift barbells. :huh:
those things that are 8 feet long and weigh 45 pounds?
really? you used those in body pump?
The shortest I recall is a 5 ft bar..even so..you were using those in body pump? :huh: Never heard of that before. Even if you were referring to the EZ Bar I'd still be questioning this.
ETA: Looked it up and there seems to be a barbell used in some sort of class but I really am wary about this. How are they loading it on their backs? Wouldn't it be unsafe to do this in a class environment in case someone has to bail out? (Even though it looked light, it'd still be a safety thing I'd worry about).0 -
Ok, really... How many here besides Niner, me, OP and kev have any idea what a BodyPump class is? :laugh:0
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(From their site):
A TYPICAL CLASS
Improve your strength - but you are saying OP doesn't want that so this would still put Body Pump out
Perform 70-100 repetitions per body part totaling up to 800 repetitions in a single workout - Again, as others have said, definitely leans more to endurance training rather than strength training regardless of weight being included into the equation.
Improve your general fitness - well..that's true for a lot of exercises you could attempt
Shape and tone your muscles - errr...but it's more based on endurance, not hypertrophy. It probably is "true" in the sense of depending on noob gains and increasing the deficit for weight loss.
Protect your bones and joints from injury - I'd be iffy on that. I could see how any exercise would increase mobility and such, but trying to go so high in your reps as they want you while attempting to increase weight for strength training would actually be harmful to my thinking...which is why you'd either have to just lean more towards a strength routine or rely on this program for more cardio.
Get into shape fast - :huh:0 -
It has to be an Olympic bar to be strength training? Come on, you guys. You're playing with me now.All the ones I've been to, that's what we did for probably 75% of the class-- lift barbells. :huh:
those things that are 8 feet long and weigh 45 pounds?
really? you used those in body pump?
no- that wasn't my thought- I just was mostly thinking what bar were you using in body pump- the only ones I've seen are the one foam ones that come pre-weighted- like 2-5,7.5-10, 12, 15 and I think at most 25. I know technically a barbell can be as short as 4 feet- I have just never seen any classes utlize anythign that's ACTUALLY a barbell that's designed to have weight added/removed- only the pre-weighted ones.
And again- it's not a bad thing- it's just... it's not a barbell- I was mostly just more confused.Body Pump is hardly cardio .... if you think it is, you are doing it wrong.
Cardio is spin class ... there is a huge difference between the two.
I have seen good changes from Body Pump.
and we are back to the top.
yes yes it is... it's significantly more in the "cardio" camp- than the strength camp.
If you think strength training is body pump- you're doing strength training wrong.
"good changes" from something doesn't make it something it's not.0 -
Watching their "move" videos. I found their form questionable and there would easily come a point in where you wouldn't be able to safely make the load heavier.
http://w3.lesmills.com/westcoast/en/classes/bodypump/learn-the-moves/0 -
Ok, really... How many here besides Niner, me, OP and kev have any idea what a BodyPump class is? :laugh:
so- yeah- those are like mini barbells- the ones I've only seen are the pre weighted ones. you still couldn't fit 95 pounds on it.
I know what the class is- the equipment I've seen used is just different.
But my opinion still stands- it's not a strength training class.0
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