Body Pump vs Lifting. Help!
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You can't fool physiology.
You sure can in MFP-land! LOL! :noway: :huh:
This thread is funny now. @WalkingAlong: I'm not saying this to be mean but you really misunderstand exercise science and you're quoting stuff that is incorrect or taken out of context. Which is okay, most of the population does in-fact. In this thread you have at least two people with an education in this field and multiple people with experience telling you otherwise. Let's stop the madness before this thread gets locked for being rude.
Well that's not nice......
Im not even going to comment on body pump because Im not familiar with it, but some people around here seem to act as if its impossible for an activity to have some aspects that are aerobic and other aspects that are anaerobic.0 -
You and several others in the thread don't even know what the class is, or what any Les Mills class is. I think other readers got all they needed to know about your own authority from that.This thread is funny now. @WalkingAlong: I'm not saying this to be mean but you really misunderstand exercise science and you're quoting stuff that is incorrect or taken out of context. Which is okay, most of the population does in-fact. In this thread you have at least two people with an education in this field and multiple people with experience telling you otherwise. Let's stop the madness before this thread gets locked for being rude.
And supposedly no one's demonizing it but heroin is bad, therefore BodyPump doesn't build strength or classify as resistance training. Because heroin. :noway:
I told you 'have a nice weekend' after your flounce post hours ago and now you're calling me rude? :ohwell:0 -
I do Body Pump weekly - I would go down the road of it isn't strength training per say. However there are obviously resistance elements to it. And it's a great class to introduce people to the notion of free weights who might otherwise feel intimidated.
It gets the heart rate up & it definitely has it's place. I also do 1/2 Combat 1/2 Body Pump - But I don't view that as "martial arts" training either. The Les Mills classes are what they are. And they do offer an hour long fun class which participants who might otherwise skip the gym find enjoyable to attend.
Winner winner chicken dinner.0 -
I personally don't see why there has to be a distinction between strength and cardio when they both work synergistically to achieve a certain goal. Certain sports depend on oxygen uptake more than they do on muscle output and vice versa, so you have to have a varying level of both to increase your performance.
Now if your goal is the sheer amount of of power your muscle can output, heavy lifting is a great tool. If your goal is to increase your muscle's ability to output power continuously for a long time, heavy lifting is a horrible tool. Similarly, if you want your muscle to output the most power in the shortest time, you would be doing things differently. Calling body pump cardio is misleading, because the main function of it is not increasing oxygen uptake by the cardiovascular system. If you want to go into semantics, just call it endurance.
I really don't understand the "heavy lifting or it isn't strength" type of thing. Strength is highly relative to your goals and the type of progress you want to make. Example:
I did want to lift heavy things, I wasn't cleared by the doctor, so my goals changed. I currently do resistance, incline walking and running, the last two are considered highly cardio-based. Does that mean I do not need to relatively increase my strength? Not at all. When I started incline walking I was capped by my cardiovascular ability because my muscles were able to output the needed force but my cardiovascular system was not. My goal at that point was to increase my cardio fitness because that's what was limiting my performance. When I started running, I had the opposite problem. I was able to breathe well when jogging but muscles fatigued within a very short time, so in this case my muscle endurance was what limited my performance. When I started resistance the amount of power my muscles were able to output was not enough, so that's what I needed to improve, namely strength. I did not need to be able to lift 300 pounds, I only needed to be able to do a push-up. Going from wall pushups to straight plank push-ups required an increase in strength. Is it a 300 pound increase? No! But it's an increase in strength nonetheless and is relevant to my goals.
Long story short, assess your goals and what limits your performance and train that. Heavy lifting is a tool if lifting heavy is your goal, but if you wish to increase your strength for other purposes there are other tools and various types of strength.
Body pump is cardio if your heart rate is your limiting factor because that's what's going to see the best gains, it's power output kind of strength if the amount you are able to lift is the limiting factor and it's endurance kind of strength if the the duration you are able to lift is the limiting factor.0 -
That's one reason I suspected Ninerbuff subbed in a knock-off class, which maybe did use Body Bars or some other fixed weights only.I've taught the class as a sub. One doesn't need certification to teach a choreographed class that just requires music and a list sequence of the exercises to be done.
That is incorrect. No one is supposed to teach Body Pump (or any other Les Mills class) unless they get certified. It isn't a quick & easy process either. 2-3 day training + certification video, etc.
There are other pre-choreographed programs out there (like Group Rx Rip) that DON'T require certification and are available to use for anyone. Big difference. The Les Mills company is a bit of a control freak, but I believe it's because they are trying to keep the quality high.
He said people he saw typically didn't increase weight, also, which doesn't sound right. In some gyms I've taken BP, in class you use a card you fill you in each week with your weight amount used for each track, in order to increase your weight over time and track your progression. You retrieve your card from a file box and fill in columns over time.0 -
I bet that poster feels very validated that someone who didn't know the class used a barbell until yesterday feels her opinion of it is accurate.I do Body Pump weekly - I would go down the road of it isn't strength training per say. However there are obviously resistance elements to it. And it's a great class to introduce people to the notion of free weights who might otherwise feel intimidated.
It gets the heart rate up & it definitely has it's place. I also do 1/2 Combat 1/2 Body Pump - But I don't view that as "martial arts" training either. The Les Mills classes are what they are. And they do offer an hour long fun class which participants who might otherwise skip the gym find enjoyable to attend.
Winner winner chicken dinner.
If people here really want to encourage women to use gyms AND free weights, they should reconsider the "BodyPump is cardio" mantra, whether it includes aerobic elements or not. The actual, licensed BodyPump is a hard class when done right, and not hard on your heart/lungs, on your muscles.
When you say "BodyPump is cardio" I think people think that means they may as well spend the time reading a magazine on the elliptical because if they're not willing to design their own barbell routine, they're not doing strength training or doing anything beneficial for their muscles or bones, which is wrong.
We don't all have to work toward hypertrophy or max strength to follow the general health recs to include resistance/strength training.0 -
It's not lifting, it is cardio. Lift heavy weights it won't "bulk" you.0
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Sorry, but all one needs is the music, the sequence and the ability to direct the class. Les Mills isn't going to check every class to see if subs are certified. Let's face it, it's not "elite" lifting techniques (very basic). And honestly, my technique lifting in class is MUCH more strict than any Les Mills class, since I WALK the class to make corrections in peoples form (of course unless I'm doing a BP class where I have to stay up front the whole time).I've taught the class as a sub. One doesn't need certification to teach a choreographed class that just requires music and a list sequence of the exercises to be done.
That is incorrect. No one is supposed to teach Body Pump (or any other Les Mills class) unless they get certified. It isn't a quick & easy process either. 2-3 day training + certification video, etc.
There are other pre-choreographed programs out there (like Group Rx Rip) that DON'T require certification and are available to use for anyone. Big difference. The Les Mills company is a bit of a control freak, but I believe it's because they are trying to keep the quality high.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I don't think anyone's saying you need different skills, just that your gym possibly taught a knock-off if they allowed you to sub it without certification. And if it was a knock-off, maybe it wasn't the same style and isn't relevant.
Was it using a barbell (the adjustable kind with plates) and incorporated squats, lunges, deadlifts, chest presses, rows, shoulder presses, etc.?0 -
When I stated "didn't increase weight", I was implying that the same people who have done the classes for years are using the same poundages for each exercise over the years. Someone doing squats with 15lbs is still doing squats with 15lbs. It's like doing being able to do 10 pushups and continuing do only do 10 push ups. Strength isn't going to be increased.
That's one reason I suspected Ninerbuff subbed in a knock-off class, which maybe did use Body Bars or some other fixed weights only.I've taught the class as a sub. One doesn't need certification to teach a choreographed class that just requires music and a list sequence of the exercises to be done.
That is incorrect. No one is supposed to teach Body Pump (or any other Les Mills class) unless they get certified. It isn't a quick & easy process either. 2-3 day training + certification video, etc.
There are other pre-choreographed programs out there (like Group Rx Rip) that DON'T require certification and are available to use for anyone. Big difference. The Les Mills company is a bit of a control freak, but I believe it's because they are trying to keep the quality high.
He said people he saw typically didn't increase weight, also, which doesn't sound right. In some gyms I've taken BP, in class you use a card you fill you in each week with your weight amount used for each track, in order to increase your weight over time and track your progression. You retrieve your card from a file box and fill in columns over time.
EDIT: My gym has BP so we have the rack and weights required to instruct. The suspect of fixed weights and only body bars is just that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
It's BP. We have 2 Les Mills certified instructors teaching it. I sub when neither can teach or if they can't cover each other. I'm a "last" resort. There are extra CD's left in storage for the player and the choreographed list. There's LOTS of weight unloading and loading during class (not the way I personally would set it up).I don't think anyone's saying you need different skills, just that your gym possibly taught a knock-off if they allowed you to sub it without certification. And if it was a knock-off, maybe it wasn't the same style and isn't relevant.
Was it using a barbell (the adjustable kind with plates) and incorporated squats, lunges, deadlifts, chest presses, rows, shoulder presses, etc.?
Again, not a hard class to instruct.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Ok, really... How many here besides Niner, me, OP and kev have any idea what a BodyPump class is? :laugh:
Me. It's cardio =D0 -
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I don't know why others thought it was a Body Bar class and thought maybe they'd heard it from you over the years, since many here do seem to repeat what you say, apparently by rote in some cases.
It's BP. We have 2 Les Mills certified instructors teaching it. I sub when neither can teach or if they can't cover each other. I'm a "last" resort. There are extra CD's left in storage for the player and the choreographed list. There's LOTS of weight unloading and loading during class (not the way I personally would set it up).I don't think anyone's saying you need different skills, just that your gym possibly taught a knock-off if they allowed you to sub it without certification. And if it was a knock-off, maybe it wasn't the same style and isn't relevant.
Was it using a barbell (the adjustable kind with plates) and incorporated squats, lunges, deadlifts, chest presses, rows, shoulder presses, etc.?
Again, not a hard class to instruct.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I still don't really get how some people not increasing their weights over the years isn't also applicable to low rep lifting but at least we're talking about the same class.0 -
Bump0
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Ok, really... How many here besides Niner, me, OP and kev have any idea what a BodyPump class is? :laugh:
Me. It's cardio =D
i have as well. i'd call it cardio with resistance. the same as i would consider something like a cosgrove evil 8 complex.
like seriously i cant believe that people dont quite get that not all resistance training is strength training. strength training involves consistently overloading your muscle with either more weight or a harder variation if you're doing bodyweight.
maybe there are people in BP who are consistently increasing their weight, but i would think that would be a at a slower pace than in a traditional strength training programs because you are performing the reps at high speed which makes it very easy for you to have crap form0 -
I don't get it because all the sources I linked to including the Harvard Health one and Mayo Clinic use the terms resistance and strength training interchangeably, or they recommend 'strength training' but then go on to include soup cans as tools.like seriously i cant believe that people dont quite get that not all resistance training is strength training. strength training involves consistently overloading your muscle with either more weight or a harder variation if you're doing bodyweight.
maybe there are people in BP who are consistently increasing their weight, but i would think that would be a at a slower pace than in a traditional strength training programs because you are performing the reps at high speed which makes it very easy for you to have crap form
Plus the OP didn't ask how to increase her strength and specifically said she wasn't looking to do that. She just wanted to help her diet along and follow the general recommendation to incorporate some form of lifting.
I'm shocked this is even a controversy, really. It's lifting a barbell in the same motions you do in low rep training. But because it's high rep, it's "not lifting, it's cardio".
Despite that two journals studied this exact question and found the opposite.0 -
^ the "controversy" doesn't surprise me. after all, for quite a few people on MFP you aren't strength training unless it's with a barbell and if you aren't strength training then you're just wasting your time and might as well not even work out :laugh:
as for the resistance vs strength training thing, i think part of this confusion is because in the past the two were the same, especially considering that the only people who were lifting were athletes and were doing lifts to increase strength, power, hypertrophy etc. then the non-jocks came and now we have to distinguish between lifting and lifting heavy, resistance training and strength training .0 -
^ the "controversy" doesn't surprise me. after all, for quite a few people on MFP you aren't strength training unless it's with a barbell and if you aren't strength training then you're just wasting your time and might as well not even work out :laugh:
as for the resistance vs strength training thing, i think part of this confusion is because in the past the two were the same, especially considering that the only people who were lifting were athletes and were doing lifts to increase strength, power, hypertrophy etc. then the non-jocks came and now we have to distinguish between lifting and lifting heavy, resistance training and strength training .
I too was confused and maybe my replies reflect that. I used strength and resistance almost interchangeably with the slight difference that "strength" is the name of the process and resistance is the name of the tool. I mean if you go from being able to do 20 rips with soup cans to being able to do 20 rips with 20 lb did your strength not increase? or like in my case, progressing from wall pushups to ground pushups was due to increase in strength. Why does it have to be in the 100+ pound realm to be considered strength?0
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